arms race just got really lit
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resource...er-rule-eliminates-permission-contact-process
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resource...er-rule-eliminates-permission-contact-process
Times are a change'n...NCAA approves no permission transfer rules
- Thread starter dunkej01
- Start date
While my gut reaction says this is probably a net positive for the students, coaches will find a way to circumvent the 2 day waiting period. Athletes will get poached, then notify their coaches of desire to transfer, and then be contacted on the record.
Tim Beckman wonders why the NCAA took so long to pass this.
Tim Beckman wonders why the NCAA took so long to pass this.
This is one of those things that should be a positive for the student-athlete. To keep it clean coaches caught tampering should be hit hard. Like a year suspension.
Big change in policy but not all that surprising considering how lenient the NCAA has been of late with transfers. This is good for student athletes and the stronger programs, but bad for the smaller schools trying to compete at a respectable level.
Encouraging this generation of kids to quit when the going gets tough? Not sure it's such a good thing. I get protecting the student athletes. Just seems like a lot more kids will jump ship when there is a small leak
Unintended consequences on the way.
Good for the kids clearly, very bad for marginal programs with breakout atheletes that might want a piece if the big time. I suspect the mid-teir programs will get poached or at least the best kids will actively seek better offers. Can you imagine a wrestling program like PSU with a gap at any weight class and no recruits in the funnel? I can see where kids from all over may want to be a part of such a great program. Surriano pulls his shenanigans, no problem someone decent on the depth chart from Iowa, OSU, tOSU, Michigan,... as well as stars on a lower tier program, might see the grass is greener with no penalty for doing so.
On balance as the dust settles I feel quite confident you will see more kids moving upward to top tier programs than the other direction.
Sure it makes a lot of sense where you have programs that over recruit and a great talent is stuck behind someone even better, but for the most part coaches were letting those kids go anyway. I can see where this leads to more over recruiting as elite programs would no longer represent a no transfer trap for top talent kids.
As an example; on the top of my 'must get' list for PSU is AJ Ferrari. It looked like he might get boxed out with Beard and Brooks in front of him. Now we can go full bore for him and may the best kid win out and allow the other to walk. There is virtually no risk to training in our room on a red shirt and if the future doesn't look bright there is no downside. Likewise if AJ proves the more elite talent, Beard can jump wherever he wants without penalty.
The rich will get richer. Heck Tom Ryan at tOSU had pretty much been gap filling for years anyway outside the big 10, cultivating "disgruntled' kids. Its a bit unclear if the Big10 is going to relax their inter conference restrictions, but I only think it's a matter of time.
I am old school however, and think even 18 year olds should be taught to choose carefully and honor your commitments; to your coach, your school, your team mates and most importantly to yourself. Net-net, I don't like this change.
Good for the kids clearly, very bad for marginal programs with breakout atheletes that might want a piece if the big time. I suspect the mid-teir programs will get poached or at least the best kids will actively seek better offers. Can you imagine a wrestling program like PSU with a gap at any weight class and no recruits in the funnel? I can see where kids from all over may want to be a part of such a great program. Surriano pulls his shenanigans, no problem someone decent on the depth chart from Iowa, OSU, tOSU, Michigan,... as well as stars on a lower tier program, might see the grass is greener with no penalty for doing so.
On balance as the dust settles I feel quite confident you will see more kids moving upward to top tier programs than the other direction.
Sure it makes a lot of sense where you have programs that over recruit and a great talent is stuck behind someone even better, but for the most part coaches were letting those kids go anyway. I can see where this leads to more over recruiting as elite programs would no longer represent a no transfer trap for top talent kids.
As an example; on the top of my 'must get' list for PSU is AJ Ferrari. It looked like he might get boxed out with Beard and Brooks in front of him. Now we can go full bore for him and may the best kid win out and allow the other to walk. There is virtually no risk to training in our room on a red shirt and if the future doesn't look bright there is no downside. Likewise if AJ proves the more elite talent, Beard can jump wherever he wants without penalty.
The rich will get richer. Heck Tom Ryan at tOSU had pretty much been gap filling for years anyway outside the big 10, cultivating "disgruntled' kids. Its a bit unclear if the Big10 is going to relax their inter conference restrictions, but I only think it's a matter of time.
I am old school however, and think even 18 year olds should be taught to choose carefully and honor your commitments; to your coach, your school, your team mates and most importantly to yourself. Net-net, I don't like this change.
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Don't understand this point of view at all. Why would you want to stop a breakout athlete who wants a piece of the big time? Just like in life, prove yourself and step up in class. If a kid wants something else, he should be free to pursue it. Just as the coaches are.
The payoff for small or marginal programs that "discover" these kids is the benefit they receive when the kids are there. Do it enough times and the program itself raises it's level. Not everyone is going to transfer - there is often much more to it than just level of competition.
This rule change is tremendous because it also raises the level of misconduct for tampering. The impetus is on the athlete and if the athlete really wants more, why keep him against his will.
But without the student-athletes getting a big payday. People are forgetting a few things. First, there is still the 9.9 ship limit. Second, when the season is over schools have already committed their 9.9 ships for the next season so the only schools that could offer more than a token ship are schools that also have someone transferring out thereby freeing up some money.
Uh, the piece of the bigtime comes after college. Plenty of mid tier program kids get those chances across all revenue sports.
I believe the rich get richer. Why not go to the highest level that will offer, transfer out when it doesn't work. No risk at all. This may not apply to all. Some student athletes look at the whole experience, including location, academics, etc. But, for the kid who is in on the athletics alone, the rich get richer.
Cool. Two questions:
1. The following statement was in the release. What does that mean? Can the BIG10 still dis-allow Intra-confernece transfers (or sitting a year or no aide)?
"Conferences, however, still can make rules that are more restrictive than the national rule"
2. Is this a one time transfer for the athlete, or can they transfer anytime? 10 transfers in 5 years?
The NCAA release specifies football only. It is possible that this is in the works for other sports but that just addresses football.
Call Rutgers' athletic department. Oh wait never mind. They just visit others' wrestling rooms.
This is an NCAA Rule change, so it affects far more than the 1.4% of ALL Division 1 athletes that wrestle. Frankly, I wonder how it will affect other sports too.
There's several good points above already, so they're not worth repeating. My thoughts, while it's way early, are;
1) We will likely see more transfers short term, then it will level out, and the "system" will settle into some transfer level that is lower than most think.
2) Many student-athlete's still select a school based on location, and going further away, where Mom and Dad can't see competitions as often, or it's a hardship in other ways, is a factor.
3) Barring an "event" at a school where the transfer departures or arrivals are high, such as a coaching change, NCAA violations, etc., it will level out. A significant event may cause a mass transfer situation.
4) We could see a school's fortunes change overnight. Imagine friends (be they same school, different schools, whatever) get together and decide to transfer together, to a common school. The one element that may minimize this is the scholarship monies available.
5) Level II Violations can be significant, and should curb all (most?) impropriety. The Mitigation Violation Level doesn't carry much of a penalty, but more serious, or repeat offenses do, especially when willful. Aggravation and Standard Violation Levels can affect a school's competition schedule, # of scholarships, restrict recruiting, or get coaches/administrators suspended, not to mention there's normally a financial penalty. Those are unlikely, but do carry more weight than previous tampering violations.
There's several good points above already, so they're not worth repeating. My thoughts, while it's way early, are;
1) We will likely see more transfers short term, then it will level out, and the "system" will settle into some transfer level that is lower than most think.
2) Many student-athlete's still select a school based on location, and going further away, where Mom and Dad can't see competitions as often, or it's a hardship in other ways, is a factor.
3) Barring an "event" at a school where the transfer departures or arrivals are high, such as a coaching change, NCAA violations, etc., it will level out. A significant event may cause a mass transfer situation.
4) We could see a school's fortunes change overnight. Imagine friends (be they same school, different schools, whatever) get together and decide to transfer together, to a common school. The one element that may minimize this is the scholarship monies available.
5) Level II Violations can be significant, and should curb all (most?) impropriety. The Mitigation Violation Level doesn't carry much of a penalty, but more serious, or repeat offenses do, especially when willful. Aggravation and Standard Violation Levels can affect a school's competition schedule, # of scholarships, restrict recruiting, or get coaches/administrators suspended, not to mention there's normally a financial penalty. Those are unlikely, but do carry more weight than previous tampering violations.
I think impact will be depth. A good backup may leave in order to start somewhere else. Then an injury leaves you scrambling. Maybe even impact the freshman/sophomore biding their time to start.... may want to be a 4 year starter...
im thinking that this sheds some light on how NS transferred and was able to compete right away.
i'm all for letting kids transfer to their hearts content, but sit a year. if they're transferring for scholastic reasons then they shouldn't mind sitting. if they're transferring for sports reasons, make there be some penalty for not honoring a commitment. i'm for penalizing coaches for leaving before their contracts are up too, but that should be written into the contract when they sign it.
If a student-athlete should sit a year then so should an under contract coach.
If a coach is not required to sit, then the student-athlete should not be.
Non-revenue sports like wrestling will always have the NCAA scholarship limitations to deal with. Scholarship money will be very limited for wrestlers who look to transfer and compete immediately under these new rules, even the proven guys.
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A dad of a kid I know currently wrestling at a D1 program told me today that the talk among his kids is that this could cause a sea change like free agency in pro sports....
Meaning we all know of good kids, AA kids that are not getting full scholarships, that now might be able to leverage "leaving" to get more at the school they are at or certainly get it from a school they are looking at. Kids and parents a like (or at least this dad and this group of kids shooting the bull) got $$ in their eyes and that is never good for much.
I dont know enough about it and doubt Ill dig too much into it, but that is an interesting take.
Meaning we all know of good kids, AA kids that are not getting full scholarships, that now might be able to leverage "leaving" to get more at the school they are at or certainly get it from a school they are looking at. Kids and parents a like (or at least this dad and this group of kids shooting the bull) got $$ in their eyes and that is never good for much.
I dont know enough about it and doubt Ill dig too much into it, but that is an interesting take.
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This would eliminate the typical partial release -- we'll release you only out of conference and if they're not on our schedule next year.
Also Dunk's point above,
This would be awesome and create the potential for some very cool match-ups across the country if red shirt guys can wrestle X number of matches. May not always be as impactful as Berge vs. OSU, but the potential for them would be fun to talk about and create some buzz around more events.
Why exactly is that?
I am asking in hopes that despite after becoming dumber you can still articulate a response.
The Beca kids are gonna love it! Oops, did I just say that out loud?
Man, I'm all for athletes' rights, but this open's up some worm cans. I'm torn on it.
Hypothetical: let's say the coaches have to pull a late-season Hail Mary and bring someone in off the bench who had been injured most of the year -- like when Triston Law dropped to 133 for B10s. And this wrestler had not yet shirted. Under that scenario:
If his only matches of the year were at B10s, and he did not qualify for nationals, that means he got 4 or fewer matches. Does the year still count as his shirt, even though he wrestled in the postseason?
If his only matches of the year were at B10s, and he did not qualify for nationals, that means he got 4 or fewer matches. Does the year still count as his shirt, even though he wrestled in the postseason?
I believe conference transfer rules still apply. If transferring within the B1G, you still lose a year of eligibility unless transferring to Michigan or Rutgers wrestling.
Does the new rule mean that if you transfer the athlete is immediately eligible without having to sit out a year (more of a football/basketball issue)?
Does the new rule mean that if you transfer the athlete is immediately eligible without having to sit out a year (more of a football/basketball issue)?
Ah, in light of these new scenarios I'd like to suggest that coaches interested in a wrestler(s) at another school should be able to make soft contacts with those wrestlers that imply their interest. Like having a Drop Dead beautiful student deliver pizzas or birthday cakes (or whatever) while wearing a tight fitting t-shirt emblazoned with the interested school's logo and merely stating "We're interested in you!".
Just seems to make sense as the next logical step along these lines to me.
Just seems to make sense as the next logical step along these lines to me.
except for a coach it's literally a job. for the student athlete, there's at least the pretense that they are in school primarily to learn.
But aren't students allowed to change schools if they want to. Why are student athletes restricted when the rest of the student body is not?
from my prior post: "i'm all for letting kids transfer to their hearts content, but sit a year. if they're transferring for scholastic reasons then they shouldn't mind sitting. if they're transferring for sports reasons, make there be some penalty for not honoring a commitment."
That's true up to a point. But good luck with a transfer once you've accumulated too many credits -- the new school will accept only some of the credits, and you'll wind up repeating at least a full year, maybe more.
Same applies for the student-athletes, plus potentially negative impact to APR for both schools.
It's a job is nothing more than a rationalization to justify unequal treatment. The rules for adults are always different than rules for either kids or people transitioning from kid to adult.
If a student-athlete wants to transfer so be it, let them transfer. If you are going to demand the kid sit a year, then by golly just apply the sit a year rule across the board. If a coach wants to transfer from the employment of one school to another, by golly so be it. Let him/her transfer. Just sit a year.
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