This China-India conflict is not good

[Cletus11]

My bigger fear is someone like Iran or Pakistan supplying one to a terrorist group to give them plausible deniability. Iran gives one to a terror group. It gets put on container ship, maybe switch ships at sea a couple times to hinder tracing. Then launch from 300 miles offshore high over East Coast, sink ship immediately so no ones knows. EMP attack. Maybe another over West Coast, one over Europe. World in a serious hurt.

yes, it will be few rogue people high up in an extremist country that gain access to a nuclear weapon of some sort and figure out a way to fire it.

Much bigger fear is computer attack. as that can be done anywhere. already see it happening across the world with hacking into things and holding them for ransom. that is only going to become a larger issue moving forward.

 

[Art]

Couldn't you have a least located a source that's a little more recent?

Never deprive Felli of an opportunity to burnish his anti-semitic credentials, even if it's 15 years old.

China produces most of its own armaments. Of it's imports, 99% come from Europe. Two-thirds of that are from Russia, with Ukraine and France accounting for the bulk of the remainder.

 

[BobPSU92]

Think 14 Trident Missile boats with 24 missiles each - that will ruin your day and I doubt they get taken out with a first strike - MAD at work.

4 out of 5 Navy Admirals recommend Trident Missiles to their sailors who deliver ASS. BEATINGS. .

 

[kijanacat]

Yes- Iran’s leadership class is so trustworthy. Let’s go with that.

About as trustworthy as US or Israel or U.K. or France. Things can always change but the CIA report on Iran showed no nuke work So did Israeli intelligence.

 

[psu00]

Much bigger fear is computer attack. as that can be done anywhere. already see it happening across the world with hacking into things and holding them for ransom. that is only going to become a larger issue moving forward.

Funny you should mention that. Australia is currently being attacked online on several fronts- government offices, education centers, businesses, and hospitals. Looks like China (allegedly) wasn’t satisfied with the killings at the India border.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8438205/Huge-cyber-attack-aimed-Australian-government.html

 

[MacNit07]

About as trustworthy as US or Israel or U.K. or France. Things can always change but the CIA report on Iran showed no nuke work So did Israeli intelligence.

Always a good bet to equate the USA with the Ayatollahs!

 

[Cletus11]

Funny you should mention that. Australia is currently being attacked online on several fronts- government offices, education centers, businesses, and hospitals. Looks like China (allegedly) wasn’t satisfied with the killings at the India border.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8438205/Huge-cyber-attack-aimed-Australian-government.html

it is pretty scary. i know a small business, about 25 people working there, that was recently hacked and their entire computer system held for ransom. they wanted like $250K as obviously a business that small doesn't have a huge amount of money. i guess they ended up calling the FBI and got most of it back. but that is the level it is getting down to.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

it is pretty scary. i know a small business, about 25 people working there, that was recently hacked and their entire computer system held for ransom. they wanted like $250K as obviously a business that small doesn't have a huge amount of money. i guess they ended up calling the FBI and got most of it back. but that is the level it is getting down to.

That shit just annoys me. It almost deserves an asymmetric response because it’s so chickenshit - like a MOAB sent straight down their chimney

 

[kijanacat]

Always a good bet to equate the USA with the Ayatollahs!

Who do you equate them with?

 

[MacNit07]

Who do you equate them with?

USA>>>Iran

Are we really that far off the rails?

 

[kijanacat]

I don't believe Iran has attacked any other countries in at least 100 years. probably more. They don't invade and they do not infiltrate, nor subvert. They are not a good nation but not hegemonistic. We invade. We subvert. Which is better?

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

I don't believe Iran has attacked any other countries in at least 100 years. probably more. They don't invade and they do not infiltrate, nor subvert. They are not a good nation but not hegemonistic. We invade. We subvert. Which is better?

Gotcha. Iran doesn’t foment turmoil in Iraq and Syria. Lmfao.Best you read up on Iranian backed militias. You might learn something. Or at least please learn the meaning of subvert.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I don't believe Iran has attacked any other countries in at least 100 years. probably more. They don't invade and they do not infiltrate, nor subvert. They are not a good nation but not hegemonistic. We invade. We subvert. Which is better?

Wow, just damn wow.

 

[kijanacat]

I would suggest those critical of Iran do some reading also and they some give some meaning to the term subvert. I will make a bet with one of you. I will bet $500 (to be held by a mutually agreeable independent party) that Iran will not have a nuclear device by the end of this year. One of us wins and one of us loses. If I win I will make the same bet to end at the end of next year. and then again after that.

Check your history on Iran. We (our CIA and British) overthrew the democratically elected Mohammed Mossadeq in 1954 (now acknowledged by our CIA as Operation Ajax, IIRTC). We, the US, gave Saddam Hussein the OK to wage war with Iran, and also supplied him with various weapons to do so. We then shot down one of their passenger airliners and killed about 250 people.,as it was leaving an Iranian airport.

Also, check out a map that shows US military bases around Iran and Russia. Then check a map of the foreign bases around the US. Then tell who is subversive.

 

[psu00]

For the record, Iran has intervened and tried to kill and overthrow people/ groups in many countries. They use their revolutionary guard to train and support proxy groups worldwide. They are currently involved in wars in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and the turmoil in both Israel and Lebanon.

They support terrorist organizations with training, funding, and weapons including Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic jihad among others.

The Iranian goal is to overthrow governments in that region to impose Islamic republics like Iran as well as calling for the destruction of Israel. No two state solution- ‘destruction’.

They have supported, trained and funded attacks in Kuwait, Afghanistan, Israel, Bahrain, Lebanon, Iraq, Panama, Bulgaria, Albania, Kenya, Nigeria, Thailand, France, Germany, Denmark, India, and at least 2 attacks in Argentina.

They used Hezbollah, guided by Iranian and Syrian agents, to assassinate the former Lebanese Prime Minister in 2005.

They supply rockets for Hamas and Hezbollah to fire into Israel on an almost daily basis.

They planned an attempted assassination of the Saudi ambassador to the US as well as bombing the Saudi and Israeli embassies in Washington.

Iran launched a dozen cruise mussels and 20 drones to attack an oil refinery in Saudi Arabia just 9 months ago.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

For the record, Iran has intervened and tried to kill and overthrow people/ groups in many countries. They use their revolutionary guard to train and support proxy groups worldwide. They are currently involved in wars in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and the turmoil in both Israel and Lebanon.

They support terrorist organizations with training, funding, and weapons including Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic jihad among others.

The Iranian goal is to overthrow governments in that region to impose Islamic republics like Iran as well as calling for the destruction of Israel. No two state solution- ‘destruction’.

They have supported, trained and funded attacks in Kuwait, Afghanistan, Israel, Bahrain, Lebanon, Iraq, Panama, Bulgaria, Albania, Kenya, Nigeria, Thailand, France, Germany, Denmark, India, and at least 2 attacks in Argentina.

They used Hezbollah, guided by Iranian and Syrian agents, to assassinate the former Lebanese Prime Minister in 2005.

They supply rockets for Hamas and Hezbollah to fire into Israel on an almost daily basis.

They planned an attempted assassination of the Saudi ambassador to the US as well as bombing the Saudi and Israeli embassies in Washington.

Iran launched a dozen cruise mussels and 20 drones to attack an oil refinery in Saudi Arabia just 9 months ago.

All that aside, not that upset at their targeting of the House of Saud - glad someone isn’t kowtowing to them

 

[kijanacat]

Any takers on my bet? I would only say, respectfully, I may add, that a lot of what you state is propaganda, most of it is subject to interpretation. This is a country that has been put upon by our NeoCons and by other countries. As far as Islamic efforts to establish their own countries, that is certain to start a minor war, especially with what we (the West, not just the US) have done to that region. Read about the British induced famine in Iran, how they essentially converted their oil to British ownership and how they invaded Iran in WW2 when they were not a belligerent. Special study should be given to how the British and French carved up the Middle East after the Great War and which has given us most of our modern problems in that region.

 

[psu00]

All that aside, not that upset at their targeting of the House of Saud - glad someone isn’t kowtowing to them

Yeah, I’m definitely not defending the Saudis. They certainly aren’t angels either. Just responding to the ‘Iran doesn't subvert and they haven’t attacked any other country in 100 years’ nonsense.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Any takers on my bet? I would only say, respectfully, I may add, that a lot of what you state is propaganda, most of it is subject to interpretation. This is a country that has been put upon by our NeoCons and by other countries. As far as Islamic efforts to establish their own countries, that is certain to start a minor war, especially with what we (the West, not just the US) have done to that region. Read about the British induced famine in Iran, how they essentially converted their oil to British ownership and how they invaded Iran in WW2 when they were not a belligerent. Special study should be given to how the British and French carved up the Middle East after the Great War and which has given us most of our modern problems in that region.

Stupid bet. No one predicted they would have a nuke this year. As for future years, they won't build nukes as Israel, the Saudis and other ME countries will not permit it.

Yes, the Brits and French really screwed up the ME, North Africa, and more . Post WWI was some of the dumbest things ever done. Wish we could redraw the maps to better reflect ethic and national ties.

But Iran, under it's current regime, is a horrific rogue state causing massive problems. Shame as most of its people are well educated, decent folks who deserve much better.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Stupid bet. No one predicted they would have a nuke this year. As for future years, they won't build nukes as Israel, the Saudis and other ME countries will not permit it.

Yes, the Brits and French really screwed up the ME, North Africa, and more . Post WWI was some of the dumbest things ever done. Wish we could redraw the maps to better reflect ethic and national ties.

But Iran, under it's current regime, is a horrific rogue state causing massive problems. Shame as most of its people are well educated, decent folks who deserve much better.

Your middle paragraph is especially on point. The African map drawing in that period pretty much guaranteed endless strife unless mass migrations happened almost everywhere. Somehow when Europe smugly points at our failings, those events get ignored

 

[The Spin Meister]

Your middle paragraph is especially on point. The African map drawing in that period pretty much guaranteed endless strife unless mass migrations happened almost everywhere. Somehow when Europe smugly points at our failings, those events get ignored

Are there any books about how these lines were drawn, how new countries like Iraq were created, and how it screwed up the world to this day? Who were the power brokers and what deals/tradeoffs were made?

Everyone knows and agrees how the Treaty of Versailles led to WWII.......why has this massive debacle been ignored?

 

[OaktonDave]

Your middle paragraph is especially on point. The African map drawing in that period pretty much guaranteed endless strife unless mass migrations happened almost everywhere. Somehow when Europe smugly points at our failings, those events get ignored

You can add the handling of south Asia to the list. In some cases, there were sectarian issues that were going to be problematic no matter what they did. Muslims and Hindus see the universe very differently and those differences permeate every aspect of society. Conflict between them had been going on in what is now India for a thousand years before the British arrived, and short of imposing peace by force in manner of Tito in Yugoslavia, that conflict wasn't going away. On the other hand, the practice of simply drawing lines on a map to create countries without regard to ethic and clan relationships only served to make a bad situation worse. Looking at an ethnic map of Pakistan and Afghanistan, it's hard to see the logic.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Any takers on my bet? I would only say, respectfully, I may add, that a lot of what you state is propaganda, most of it is subject to interpretation. This is a country that has been put upon by our NeoCons and by other countries. As far as Islamic efforts to establish their own countries, that is certain to start a minor war, especially with what we (the West, not just the US) have done to that region. Read about the British induced famine in Iran, how they essentially converted their oil to British ownership and how they invaded Iran in WW2 when they were not a belligerent. Special study should be given to how the British and French carved up the Middle East after the Great War and which has given us most of our modern problems in that region.

How’s your learning the definition of subvert coming along?

 

[Nitt1300]

Are there any books about how these lines were drawn, how new countries like Iraq were created, and how it screwed up the world to this day? Who were the power brokers and what deals/tradeoffs were made?

Everyone knows and agrees how the Treaty of Versailles led to WWII.......why has this massive debacle been ignored?

Western European white men write the history

 

[Locolion]

Pakistan won’t be allying with Russia or China. Pakistan is still bitter about losing East Pakistan, now Bangladesh, to India in the 1970s. China and Russia sided with India in that and Pakistanis are still somewhat bitter.

Also, don’t assume that a Russian-Chinese alliance is a sure thing. The closest the world has come to nuclear war happened because of a China-Russia border dispute. The Chinese were also pissed about Russia supporting Ho Chi Minh. People in the US don’t know that China invaded Vietnam after the US war to get rid of Ho Chi Minh because he was backed by the Soviets. The Vietnamese fought off the Chinese after having fought off the US. Tough people.

Even if Pakistan does side with Russia and China, who cares? They’re of little strategic importance, especially since the Afghan War has been de-escalated. Plus they’ve never been of much use since their border was so porous and allowed Taliban and al Qaeda operatives to move freely between countries. Don’t forget Bin Laden was “hiding” in a compound a stones throw away from their West Point equivalent. I heard a lecture by Christopher Hitchens about 15 years ago about how the West needed to support India. The general thrust was that the West has sacrificed a relationship with the largest democracy in the world in order to foster a relationship with Pakistan. A relationship that gave us virtually nothing.

Read the Blood Telegram by Gary Bass - super interesting story about the US political maneuvering during the Nixon admin with Pakistan, India, and newly separating Bangladesh. Slaughtering of Bengals. It’s just incredible the things that occurred that we know little about, yet the US played a not insignificant role

 

[The Spin Meister]

Western European white men write the history

So you're telling me that no minority person is capable of doing his/her/cis own research and writing their own book? Thats pretty racist of you.

 

[Nitt1300]

So you're telling me that no minority person is capable of doing his/her/cis own research and writing their own book? Thats pretty racist of you.

sure- whatever you say

 

[drblue1977]

I think the whole world is slowly coming around to the idea that life in a world where China is the preeminent power is going to suck.

Does everyone realize now that China is in an ...........expansion mode. See Kansas and the Permian Oil fields, oops, South China Sea. Hey World, if the U.S. falters, Europe will fold in a day and that leaves nothing to stop the China, Russia and the Iran types from treating everyone like a ....Uighur (no offense intended). Note to the Progs (Pelosi), the permanent exemption that you thought you are entitled to, will be........voided. Fingers crossed.

 

[MacNit07]

I don't believe Iran has attacked any other countries in at least 100 years. probably more. They don't invade and they do not infiltrate, nor subvert. They are not a good nation but not hegemonistic. We invade. We subvert. Which is better?

My God - are you this naive?

 

[83wuzme]

I don't believe Iran has attacked any other countries in at least 100 years. probably more. They don't invade and they do not infiltrate, nor subvert. They are not a good nation but not hegemonistic. We invade. We subvert. Which is better?

Then explain what has been happening in Yemen for the last 6 years.
Or in Lebanon with Hezbollah for the past 40.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Then explain what has been happening in Yemen for the last 6 years.
Or in Lebanon with Hezbollah for the past 40.

He/she already has. It is “propaganda”. Lmao. Don’t forget Syria and Iraq.

 

[kijanacat]

How’s your learning the definition of subvert coming along?

Better than yours, Song meister!
You guys show a remarkable lack of historical knowledge. You also believe the local propaganda. As far as books regarding the drawing up of borders post WW1, I believe a woman named Mitchell wrote one called "Paris 1919." There is also an accompanying film with the same name that is outstanding. Iran is involved in a war in the Middle East. And they support their allies, just like everyone does. Unlike US, French and British, they do not subvert local governments. They support allies. That is hardly subversion.
I suggest you watch a Youtube video of Wesley Clark, (former head of Nato Military for US and Democrat candidate for President against George W. Bush). He states in that video that a plan had been put in place to take down seven governments in 5 years. This included Iraq, Libya, Syria and Iran, among others. To that our CIA added Ukraine. I don't think any of this is disputed. When countries defend against that type of activity, you can hardly call it subversion.
In Yemen, it is not the Iranians who are killing civilians.
As far as the bet, I have two of them going now. One is a Jewish friend and another is a relative. both bought into the Netanyahu lies about Iran being on the verge of obtaining a nuclear weapon. Look at his Youtube videos telling us how close Iran is to getting a nuclear weapon. That was years ago and they still have not obtained one.

 

[83wuzme]

Better than yours, Song meister!
You guys show a remarkable lack of historical knowledge. You also believe the local propaganda. As far as books regarding the drawing up of borders post WW1, I believe a woman named Mitchell wrote one called "Paris 1919." There is also an accompanying film with the same name that is outstanding. Iran is involved in a war in the Middle East. And they support their allies, just like everyone does. Unlike US, French and British, they do not subvert local governments. They support allies. That is hardly subversion.
I suggest you watch a Youtube video of Wesley Clark, (former head of Nato Military for US and Democrat candidate for President against George W. Bush). He states in that video that a plan had been put in place to take down seven governments in 5 years. This included Iraq, Libya, Syria and Iran, among others. To that our CIA added Ukriaine. I don't think any of this is disputed. When countries defend against that type of activity, you can hardly call it subversion.
In Yemen, it is not the Iranians who are killing civilians.
As far as the bet, I have two of them going now. One is a Jewish friend and another is a relative. both bought into the Netanyahu lies about Iran being on the verge of obtaining a nuclear weapon. Look at his Youtube videos telling us how close Iran is to getting a nuclear weapon. That was years ago and they still have not obtained one.

I know a dentist who actually lives in Yemen and she would not agree with your admiration of their foreign policy.

 

[kijanacat]

I know a dentist who actually lives in Yemen and she would not agree with your admiration of their foreign policy.

Never said I admired it, or anything else about the Mideast. Seems like is all a shithole to me. All of it. My point is only about conflicts going on there. But you statement that I admire the policy is rather telling about your mental set.

 

[Lion84]

Better than yours, Song meister!
You guys show a remarkable lack of historical knowledge. You also believe the local propaganda. As far as books regarding the drawing up of borders post WW1, I believe a woman named Mitchell wrote one called "Paris 1919." There is also an accompanying film with the same name that is outstanding. Iran is involved in a war in the Middle East. And they support their allies, just like everyone does. Unlike US, French and British, they do not subvert local governments. They support allies. That is hardly subversion.
I suggest you watch a Youtube video of Wesley Clark, (former head of Nato Military for US and Democrat candidate for President against George W. Bush). He states in that video that a plan had been put in place to take down seven governments in 5 years. This included Iraq, Libya, Syria and Iran, among others. To that our CIA added Ukraine. I don't think any of this is disputed. When countries defend against that type of activity, you can hardly call it subversion.
In Yemen, it is not the Iranians who are killing civilians.
As far as the bet, I have two of them going now. One is a Jewish friend and another is a relative. both bought into the Netanyahu lies about Iran being on the verge of obtaining a nuclear weapon. Look at his Youtube videos telling us how close Iran is to getting a nuclear weapon. That was years ago and they still have not obtained one.

But you believe Iranian propaganda - yeah they are just really nice people just misunderstood - got it and Stalin was just misunderstood as well.

 

[gslachta]

Between the Indian border dispute, crack down in Hong Kong, saber rattling with respect to Taiwan, aggressive acts in the South China Sea, conspiracy theories about COVID-19, and their “Wolf-Warrior Diplomacy”, it’s long past due that China gets checked. The United States should be drafting a proposal for a large arms sale to India.

Unfortunately we may not be in a position to militarily counter the Chinese. We sent in May, 5 aircraft carriers and 9 nuclear subs to SCS. I think this is why NK backed out of negotiations. China told them to. It also takes time to reverse 30 years of trade and bringing manufacturing back. They are also threatening Australia with trade. They bought and run Port Matilda as they did with Long Beach. They have threatened to cut beef imports from the Aussies and they are ripped. India vs. China could go Nuclear. It maybe be a big bluff but I don’t think we are ready for it. I hope we are but I’m doubtful.

 

[Nitt1300]

Talk of a war with China is pointless. We can't beat them in a conventional war on the Asian continent. They can't beat our Navy. Both sides know this.

Nobody wins a nuclear war, and both sides know that, too.

 

[NittPicker]

Unfortunately we may not be in a position to militarily counter the Chinese. We sent in May, 5 aircraft carriers and 9 nuclear subs to SCS. I think this is why NK backed out of negotiations. China told them to. It also takes time to reverse 30 years of trade and bringing manufacturing back. They are also threatening Australia with trade. They bought and run Port Matilda as they did with Long Beach. They have threatened to cut beef imports from the Aussies and they are ripped. India vs. China could go Nuclear. It maybe be a big bluff but I don’t think we are ready for it. I hope we are but I’m doubtful.

The Chinese own Port Matilda? Damn!! What's next? Milesburg?

A reminder to you all. Don't drink before posting.

 

[gslachta]

The Chinese own Port Matilda? Damn!! What's next? Milesburg?

A reminder to you all. Don't drink before posting.

They lease Port of Darwin since 2015 while they are Walzing

The Chinese own Port Matilda? Damn!! What's next? Milesburg?

A reminder to you all. Don't drink before posting.

They lease Port of Darwin since 2015 while Waltzing Matilda. I think I got that right now.

 

[kijanacat]

But you believe Iranian propaganda - yeah they are just really nice people just misunderstood - got it and Stalin was just misunderstood as well.

How you get to Stalin is one of life's mystries. Really. Never said I believed Iran's propaganda, just said I do not believe ours. That simple. However, just a small point. These religious types, like the Iranian Ayatollahs, rarely lie about their beliefs. Or intentions. As I said above, this is not a good regime but they are about self protection, not conquest. All of their conduct it to protect themselves, not conquering other nations. You can read about this. At least try.