Teen suicide rates rising; linked to Covid lockdowns.

[PSUHarry33]

Thanks for proving my point for me. That article cites no evidence of increased suicides, but the suggestive title has suckers like you swimming in confirmation bias. The underlying data is from 2019.

Again, I would not be surprised if suicides proves to be up but I will wait for actual data before positing theories on the underlying causes.

heritage foundation is not credible in general.

 

[Nitt1300]

Good for you then not coddling your kids and hopefully teaching them responsibility and self-reliance. We need a lot more of that.

Why do you blame only the national level for much of this and not the governors who are calling the shots? There have been incredibly varying outcomes in states responses and results (deaths, economic, and all of these secondary and tertiary effects such as violence, suicides, mental and social disorders, drugs and alcohol abuse, anxiety, etc.). It's not like we have had a draconian national order to shut things down, telling states how/where/when to shut down or re-open, ordering states on exactly what they have to do to protect those at the most risk or like PA force COVID infectious patients by public health order into nursing homes, etc. Is it your belief that the governors who are actually making all of these decisions bear no responsibility for the outcomes?

Simple- the states should not have had to deal with this in the first place- other than to implement a national policy led by the CDC. Since there is no national policy- or leadership- the various states had to make it up as they went along. Predictably, it has been pretty much a clusterfuk. This should never have become political, and that's all on one narcissist.

 

[AWS1022]

Look, you and I agree on the coddling and outsourcing of parenting. Much of that is a product of women's rights leading to opportunities for women to now an expectation that 2 parents work. Much is also a product of the 2 parent family becoming an endangered species. Your experience in education has helped you to identify accurately issues with child rearing.

But you sure as he!! don't know service men and women like I do. There have been millions of volunteers to serve their country who raised their right hand during a time of war (almost endless over the last 20 years) knowing that it meant putting their lives on the line for their country. Few want to die in combat. But all accepted this risk voluntarily (since the Vietnam era). If you haven't done that, I can understand why you may not understand it. But as an educator, you have to accept that millions have chosen to serve during war for their country knowing full well that they could lose their lives or limbs. No one is romanticizing war but are you seriously trying to argue that our WWII vets sacrificed in vain? That what they did wasn't really all that important or consequential? I honestly don't know what to make of your position. It's not just our nation that owes these WWII heroes a debt of gratitude. It is clearly all free nations that do and anyone who doesn't possess blond hair and blue eyes.

This^^^ These folks that want to trash today’s younger generation and bring up the greatness of the older generations because of military service seem to forget a thing called the draft. There’s a difference between showing “bravery” and going to war because you have to and volunteering to do it like all military members of today do. If a foreign enemy attacked our shores today, I guarantee our younger generation would step up and if not, just reinstitute the draft so they can be forced brave as well.

 

[AWS1022]

Good for you then not coddling your kids and hopefully teaching them responsibility and self-reliance. We need a lot more of that.

Why do you blame only the national level for much of this and not the governors who are calling the shots? There have been incredibly varying outcomes in states responses and results (deaths, economic, and all of these secondary and tertiary effects such as violence, suicides, mental and social disorders, drugs and alcohol abuse, anxiety, etc.). It's not like we have had a draconian national order to shut things down, telling states how/where/when to shut down or re-open, ordering states on exactly what they have to do to protect those at the most risk or like PA force COVID infectious patients by public health order into nursing homes, etc. Is it your belief that the governors who are actually making all of these decisions bear no responsibility for the outcomes?

Or do you think we needed a one size fits all solution? North Dakota is the same as NY? Everyone in lockstep follow as we are told even if isn't applicable where we live? No thinking, no granularity, no consideration of local concerns or variances, just do as your supreme leader dictates?

Don’t be fooled, if we would have implemented a national policy, he would be screaming that it was the wrong decision and that it killed X number of people. He would be lecturing on state’s rights and how the governors would have handled it better. This is just his anti-Trump rant.

 

[BringBackStoneys]

Suicide proves to be up? The rates will skyrocket. Media reports, web searches, anecdotal stories, tell the story. Adult rates will soar. One of my boys works for a very large behavioral health company. Even with Covid, they are hitting record admittance numbers, These numbers will only increase as people are not able to financially hold on. Unfortunately, you will be seeing these numbers in reports and statistics over the next 6 to 12 months.

Neither you nor LdN have posted any actual data. After the data is published, and I suspect it will show increases in suicide, we can look at state-level, city-level and international data over the same time period to see if the increases correlate (or not) with lockdown protocols, local unemployment or other factors.

 

[walleye38]

Good for you then not coddling your kids and hopefully teaching them responsibility and self-reliance. We need a lot more of that.

Why do you blame only the national level for much of this and not the governors who are calling the shots? There have been incredibly varying outcomes in states responses and results (deaths, economic, and all of these secondary and tertiary effects such as violence, suicides, mental and social disorders, drugs and alcohol abuse, anxiety, etc.). It's not like we have had a draconian national order to shut things down, telling states how/where/when to shut down or re-open, ordering states on exactly what they have to do to protect those at the most risk or like PA force COVID infectious patients by public health order into nursing homes, etc. Is it your belief that the governors who are actually making all of these decisions bear no responsibility for the outcomes?

Or do you think we needed a one size fits all solution? North Dakota is the same as NY? Everyone in lockstep follow as we are told even if isn't applicable where we live? No thinking, no granularity, no consideration of local concerns or variances, just do as your supreme leader dictates?

Covid is blamed for everything. How about blaming T.V. , video games, school leaders, ministers, and everybody but the individual.

 

[ApexLion]

No doubt kids today are much more coddled than previous generations. But we aren't facing a fascist threat now (except I suppose in many cities that have recently burned). And WWII and every war had very deep psychological and social costs. My WWII uncle wouldn't speak of his experience until just before passing and then only talked to me. He hid behind dead bodies at Normandy for significant portions of the invasion. That kind of stuff is going to change some to a point that they really struggle mentally. But they were generally stronger men. And yet, every war carries very high suicide rates during and after. I've personally spent a good bit of time in multiple combat zones and some of those that I served with struggle every day. All of these men and women sacrificed for their country in a time of war. And many still struggle.

So now kids go from the most coddled and privileged generation in our nation's history with the least experience of sacrificing to having their world, their passions, their entire social structure taken away for what most of them would think is nothing (and the statistics back them up for their age group). Soldiers sacrificed for their country. These kids are sacrificing because of irrational fear. Soldiers stood up in the face of danger. These kids are forced to cower and hide. Soldiers leaned on each other and formed life long bonds that those who never served in a combat zone don't fully understand. Our kids are being forced to give up their bonds, give up their entire social network, and lean on maybe just a brother or sister if they have one. And again, it's all for a 99.999% survival rate according to the CDC if they even would get the virus.

We are forcing the softest generation to date to give up their world (even Soldiers in combat zones had sports and games and a social group) for what they have determined correctly is absolutely no good reason. Just because a bunch of adults refuse to consider the CDC data and appropriately analyze risk. Because a bunch of old people are selfish and won't let these kids live because they think it might possibly affect their risk as they still go out to big box stores and groceries. We're forcing young millennials (in competition for softest generation), many with a hundred thousand in college debt, to lose their jobs and delay their opportunities to get some financial foothold since a very disproportionate job impact is to those who were least experienced and established.

Did we not think this selfishness would come at a very steep cost? From coddled to isolation for 99.999% (kids) to 99.995% (young adults) risk if they get the virus going into the 8th month now with no apparent end date after telling them it was 15 days to flatten the curve? It's selfish. I don't know how else to describe what we are forcing on kids, maybe irrational, cruel, sad. I do think these generations could use some toughening up but I don't think go hide at the slightest hint of risk does it. And you want to teach them the lesson of sacrificing but it should be reinforced by those sacrifices earning them something. For our WWII heroes it was a lifetime of our nation's gratitude. For me as a kid running a paper route it was learning work ethic and dependability. But these kids are learning to sacrifice because older people are selfish, won't isolate themselves if they can't tolerate their age category risk, and are projecting irrational fears.

projecting irrational fears - got it

So you have an argument with public health policy during a pandemic.

I'm amazed and thrilled about all of the heretofore oblivious individuals who are concerned about today's youth. Teenagers in the aggregate have gone from 'snowflakes' (according to this board) to victims of policies, presumably created out of thin air by politicians they don't like. I suspect donations and time volunteered counseling youth will now skyrocket, at least from those on this board.

 

[Jerry]

Learning to overcome adversity and a sense of entitlement is an invaluable life lesson, regardless of the circumstances that predicate it. The chickens have come home to roost for many parents who spent more effort into conceiving their children than rearing them. At the earliest possible opportunity infants are dropped off at day care and later the school district is the primary guardian as both parents demonstrate their right to "have it all." I have almost 4 decades as an educator to source my contention on this topic. I doubt that GI's, as they felt the life oozing from their bodies thought, at least I'm "sacrificing for my country." One could question why those young men really died in Europe. So half the continent could be "saved" from fascism only to live 5 decades under the yolk of communism? Let's not romanticize any conflict that sent young men to die on foreign soil.
Your characterization of the pandemic is an opinion you are entitled to.
My message to those who constantly whine about the current state of affairs is "buck up binkie."

I think both Justin and you in the above post are making important and valid points, though your perspective on the pandemic is obviously different -- and on that issue I pretty much come down in Justin's corner.

World War II is not called The Good War for nothing. The enemy was evil. The threat was real. And the stakes were existential. Moreover, a spirit of shared service, shared risk, and shared sacrifice animated the nation. That's a unifying and inspiring thing.

Unfortunately, it went out the window a long time ago when the culture became ruled by a mentality that sacrifice, whether with respect to military service or parenthood or citizenship or whatever, is something for other people to do. We see the wreckage all around us.

As for the mindset of soldiers in combat, I can't speak to that from personal experience as my military service occurred in peacetime, if you can call the Cold War period of the late 70's "peaceful."

However, from talking to Marines who fought in Vietnam and reading what combat vets have written, my sense is that at the point of life and death, you're not fighting for high principles or the Star Spangled Banner but rather for your buddies. This is a very powerful bond between and among men. I emphasize: men. I'll stop here lest I venture any further into the thickets of political incorrectness.

 

[katchthis]

I've read quite a few articles on the increased level of depression especially in the teen age and young adult crowd due to the quarantining, etc.

Simple- the states should not have had to deal with this in the first place- other than to implement a national policy led by the CDC. Since there is no national policy- or leadership- the various states had to make it up as they went along. Predictably, it has been pretty much a clusterfuk. This should never have become political, and that's all on one narcissist.

Yep all Trumps fault. He's been in office for 3 plus years. Biden has been in office for 47 years. Do you realize that is over 20% of time since the founding of our country, and he hasn't done shizzle.

 

[HartfordLlion]

That is the dirty little secret these governors are hiding.

People are still gathering. Just not in businesses.

LdN

We had middle age adults in my neighborhood gathering late spring when we in Connecticut were struggling mightily with Covid imported from NYC. As soon as the weather turned nice the knucklehead kids next door were outside with their friends, no masks. I take the dog for a walk past our HS soccer fields. The boys soccer team have been playing pickup games since early summer. Kids don't care and probably already have had it, many adults don't care especially if it interferes with their drinking and socialising.

 

[Nitt1300]

I've read quite a few articles on the increased level of depression especially in the teen age and young adult crowd due to the quarantining, etc.

Yep all Trumps fault. He's been in office for 3 plus years. Biden has been in office for 47 years. Do you realize that is over 20% of time since the founding of our country, and he hasn't done shizzle.

Who has been POTUS since this outbreak began? What has he done to help? What office does Biden hold?

And I didn't fault Trump for any increase in suicides (if there is one- that remains to be seen) Suicide, unlike dying from a highly contagious virus, is a choice- and only one person is responsible for making that choice.

 

[LionDeNittany]

We had middle age adults in my neighborhood gathering late spring when we in Connecticut were struggling mightily with Covid imported from NYC. As soon as the weather turned nice the knucklehead kids next door were outside with their friends, no masks. I take the dog for a walk past our HS soccer fields. The boys soccer team have been playing pickup games since early summer. Kids don't care and probably already have had it, many adults don't care especially if it interferes with their drinking and socialising.

Yes. And my point is the gathering is happening... I mean look at protests.

Yet, governors are keeping businesses shut down.

It is completely political.

LdN

 

[Obliviax]

Simple- the states should not have had to deal with this in the first place- other than to implement a national policy led by the CDC. Since there is no national policy- or leadership- the various states had to make it up as they went along. Predictably, it has been pretty much a clusterfuk. This should never have become political, and that's all on one narcissist.

LOL....the federal team TRIED do lead but we have constitutional separation of powers between th Feds and state. In many cases, the states didn't take federal guidance and went on their own (except to ask for additional money and supplies).

Cuomo rips into CDC as Trump’s political tool, says New York won’t follow new virus guidance

In Worst-Hit Covid State, New York’s Cuomo Called All the Shots
Governor overrode mayor on shutdown timing, faced criticism for nursing home moves; ‘It’s not your call’

How people don't understand this is beyond logic. The Feds also tried to intervene in inner city violence only to be kicked out by NY, Chicago, Portland, Seattle....based on the same separation of powers.

 

[Madsol]

I've read quite a few articles on the increased level of depression especially in the teen age and young adult crowd due to the quarantining, etc.

Yep all Trumps fault. He's been in office for 3 plus years. Biden has been in office for 47 years. Do you realize that is over 20% of time since the founding of our country, and he hasn't done shizzle.

I sure hope I am never as partisan as this Nit1300 dude. I'm guessing that had Trump mandated a national policy, he and those like him would have been screaming "Tyrrant!!" We absolutely DID NOT need a national Covid policy. What was/is necessary for New York City may not be necessary for Montana or North Dakota or Idaho. Heck, even the state-wide mandates are ridiculous. Why are we treating restaurants in Coudersport the same as those is center city Philadelphia? This guy is simply reflexively "Trump bad."

 

[LionDeNittany]

LOL....the federal team TRIED do lead but we have constitutional separation of powers between th Feds and state. In many cases, the states didn't take federal guidance and went on their own (except to ask for additional money and supplies).

Cuomo rips into CDC as Trump’s political tool, says New York won’t follow new virus guidance

In Worst-Hit Covid State, New York’s Cuomo Called All the Shots
Governor overrode mayor on shutdown timing, faced criticism for nursing home moves; ‘It’s not your call’

How people don't understand this is beyond logic.

Yes. And remember while riots were happening and people are getting murdered on the streets while their businesses were burned to the ground these same governors refused the national guard.

The idea that they would follow a national policy is hilarious.

LdN

 

[JustinTyme]

Who has been POTUS since this outbreak began? What has he done to help? What office does Biden hold?

And I didn't fault Trump for any increase in suicides (if there is one- that remains to be seen) Suicide, unlike dying from a highly contagious virus, is a choice- and only one person is responsible for making that choice.

Look man, why are you making this all about politics? It is about learning from the CDC data available, all available sources, analyzing risks granularly by age group/geography/type of activity/etc., analyzing the consequences of public policies to include strictness/consistency/length of lockdowns and restrictions, and making appropriate decisions for ALL of us, not Democrats and Republicans. I agree that there have been huge differences between the responses of Republican and Democrat controlled states. But decisions should not be based on politics and instead be informed by data, science, logic and reason for the good of ALL people. When we have a political aim with this, the people lose because it is no longer the optimal decision for the good of the people but rather for the good of a party. We really need to reject that no matter which lever you pull.

 

[Obliviax]

I sure hope I am never as partisan as this Nit1300 dude. I'm guessing that had Trump mandated a national policy, he and those like him would have been screaming "Tyrrant!!" We absolutely DID NOT need a national Covid policy. What was/is necessary for New York City may not be necessary for Montana or North Dakota or Idaho. Heck, even the state-wide mandates are ridiculous. Why are we treating restaurants in Coudersport the same as those is center city Philadelphia? This guy is simply reflexively "Trump bad."

That is exactly what happened. The Feds tried to exert power and the Gov of NY, NJ, Washington, Oregon and CA pushed back. Same is true of federal assistance to fight looting and violence as part of the recent "peaceful" protests.

 

[Lion84]

LOL....the federal team TRIED do lead but we have constitutional separation of powers between th Feds and state. In many cases, the states didn't take federal guidance and went on their own (except to ask for additional money and supplies).

Cuomo rips into CDC as Trump’s political tool, says New York won’t follow new virus guidance

In Worst-Hit Covid State, New York’s Cuomo Called All the Shots
Governor overrode mayor on shutdown timing, faced criticism for nursing home moves; ‘It’s not your call’

How people don't understand this is beyond logic. The Feds also tried to intervene in inner city violence only to be kicked out by NY, Chicago, Portland, Seattle....based on the same separation of powers.

Some people can never take off their partisan blinders and forget many governors told the Fed to back off until they needed things and they got them. I forgot when Trump sent all those COVID positive patients into nursing homes - those governors might as well have strapped a grenade to them while they were at it - this was a failure on many levels but the blame game is 100% political.

 

[Nitt1300]

I sure hope I am never as partisan as this Nit1300 dude. I'm guessing that had Trump mandated a national policy, he and those like him would have been screaming "Tyrrant!!" We absolutely DID NOT need a national Covid policy. What was/is necessary for New York City may not be necessary for Montana or North Dakota or Idaho. Heck, even the state-wide mandates are ridiculous. Why are we treating restaurants in Coudersport the same as those is center city Philadelphia? This guy is simply reflexively "Trump bad."

I despise Trump- absolutely. But it has nothing to do with his political beliefs, because he doesn't have any. It's because he's a gutless draft dodger and fraud. He's not the only one from my generation, but none of them are currently in office.

That out of the way- let's examine what a national policy should have looked like.

The CDC establishes thresholds for infection rates and levels of activity vs shutdown based on that- obviously some areas are worse and some better, but you have a consistent policy and plan based on local conditions and known benchmarks to determine what actions are necessary. No raging debate, no politics, just common sense.

 

[Obliviax]

Some people can never take off their partisan blinders and forget many governors told the Fed to back off until they needed things and they got them. I forgot when Trump sent all those COVID positive patients into nursing homes - those governors might as well have strapped a grenade to them while they were at it - this was a failure on many levels but the blame game is 100% political.

personally, I don't blame the Govs because we just didn't know. But to blame anyone else and to suggest they would have done better is nutso. (not to mention to write a book on how to manage during a crisis).

 

[lions1995]

Exactly. I've been saying that there is a very high cost to the shut downs. Unfortunately, the least at risk seem to be paying the highest price. Many kids had their entire social structure removed for months (which for a kid seems like years). This is not just increasing suicides, it's increasing drug use, anxiety, social and mental issues, and increasing physical and sexual abuse. Plus, this generation is going to be so risk averse and scared to live if we don't let them live life. People think shutting down only saves lives. But it is starting to appear that the math will end up working out to a net loss in lives by shutting down. It's cruel and backward.

And this is the reason that we sent our son to catholic school. He is in school, in person, 5 days and then has his travel soccer practices 3 night/week and games on Saturday/Sunday (sometimes both).

 

[interrobang]

personally, I don't blame the Govs because we just didn't know. But to blame anyone else and to suggest they would have done better is nutso. (not to mention to write a book on how to manage during a crisis).

I could see not blaming governors at the start due to the unknowns, but the ones still locking down today deserve all the blame.

 

[LionDeNittany]

I despise Trump- absolutely. But it has nothing to do with his political beliefs

LOL. Lying is one thing. Lying to yourself is another.

Everyone here sees you for what you are... except you.

LdN

 

[Nitt1300]

LOL. Lying is one thing. Lying to yourself is another.

Everyone here sees you for what you are... except you.

LdN

I liked Clinton as much as I like Trump. I don't expect someone like you to understand- and don't care that you don't.

 

[Thomas1945]

Suicide, unlike dying from a highly contagious virus, is a choice- and only one person is responsible for making that choice.

I think that’s a rather callous remark. Hopefully it appears more dogmatic then you actually intended. Many people who commit suicide are suffering from severe mental disorders. I seriously doubt you or anyone else would highly value such a troubled person’s decision making process if it related to something that was of vital interest to you personally. Yet they are responsible for their own death?

I’m not saying that you, anyone else or society in general should be blamed for such suicides. That would be as short sighted as assigning all blame to the mentally unstable individual. Unfortunately often terrible things happen for which it’s impossible to definitely assign responsibility.

 

[Madsol]

I liked Clinton as much as I like Trump. I don't expect someone like you to understand- and don't care that you don't.

You cared enough to respond. I think you envision yourself some independent centrist. But your post history betrays you.

 

[SLUPSU]

I think that’s a rather callous remark. Hopefully it appears more dogmatic then you actually intended. Many people who commit suicide are suffering from severe mental disorders. I seriously doubt you or anyone else would highly value such a troubled person’s decision making process if it related to something that was of vital interest to you personally. Yet they are responsible for their own death?

I’m not saying that you, anyone else or society in general should be blamed for such suicides. That would be as short sighted as assigning all blame to the mentally unstable individual. Unfortunately often terrible things happen for which it’s impossible to definitely assign responsibility.

Is it callous for dozens of posters who are now being dismissive of the 200k+ dead (mostly seniors)? You know the routine they'll tell you that 99.95% aren't dying from CV19. If I was a callous like those folks I'd tell you that 99.999% of 40,000,000+ pre-teens and teens aren't committing suicide.

 

[UNCPSUFAN]

I do blame the total lack of leadership at the national level for much of this, just not for suicides.

If you want to blame someone other than the suicides themselves, start with the parents. I don't know where these "soft" people you all are talking about come from, none of my kids are soft. Neither are my grandkids.

The problem stems from the parents who raised these kids. The "everybody gets a trophy" generation never learned how not to deal with adversity which was created by parents.

 

[Obliviax]

Is it callous for dozens of posters who are now being dismissive of the 200k+ dead (mostly seniors)? You know the routine they'll tell you that 99.95% aren't dying from CV19. If I was a callous like those folks I'd tell you that 99.999% of 40,000,000+ pre-teens and teens aren't committing suicide.

Nobody is being callous about 200k being dead. But you have to craft public policy in a top down approach. Now that we know more, we know that those that are susceptible to death are those over 65 or with very serious underlying conditions. We also know that "lockdowns" are damaging to people's health as well. Public policy demands a nuanced approach to balance the damage and to promote a manageable way forward to full opening. Take for example prostate cancer. It makes no sense and is a waste of resources that could be better used, to promote prostate cancer awareness to an all- girls elementary school.

Ike sent people off to their deaths the evening of June 5th, 1944. He lived with that difficult decision knowing more people would live, over the long run, than get killed June 6th ~ 30th in France.

 

[AWS1022]

Covid is blamed for everything. How about blaming T.V. , video games, school leaders, ministers, and everybody but the individual.

All things that have been around for years....when there’s a spike you have to look at something new that’s causing it and we all know what that is even if some want to deny it.

 

[AWS1022]

Is it callous for dozens of posters who are now being dismissive of the 200k+ dead (mostly seniors)? You know the routine they'll tell you that 99.95% aren't dying from CV19. If I was a callous like those folks I'd tell you that 99.999% of 40,000,000+ pre-teens and teens aren't committing suicide.

So how many dead teenagers is acceptable for one old person to live? Just asking.

 

[Lion84]

I liked Clinton as much as I like Trump. I don't expect someone like you to understand- and don't care that you don't.

I guess you also hate the the other gutless draft dodger who is running against the president then.

 

[AWS1022]

I guess you also hate the the other gutless draft dodger who is running against the president then.

Of course he doesn’t, certain gutless draft dodgers are perfectly okay.

 

[JustinTyme]

Is it callous for dozens of posters who are now being dismissive of the 200k+ dead (mostly seniors)? You know the routine they'll tell you that 99.95% aren't dying from CV19. If I was a callous like those folks I'd tell you that 99.999% of 40,000,000+ pre-teens and teens aren't committing suicide.

Except that you would be conflating two completely different statistics and errantly quoting them. The CDC reported on Friday that under age 18 population has a 99.997% survival rate IF THEY GET COVID. The denominator is the entire population of 0 - 18 year olds as you are trying to use for suicides which is the #2 cause of death in this age group.

The CDC also publishes all cause of death in adolescents (and other age groups) - over 20,000 per year. There were 2335 total suicides recorded in 2016 (the year's data that came up first in a search) among adolescents. Just for example, in Portland attempted suicides were up 41% over the previous year and had jumped 23% since the schools went to cyber only with the lock downs at the end of the last academic year. Let's be generous and assume only 20% increase in suicide attempts and the same success rate. Then we are talking 467 additional suicide deaths among adolescents is highly likely. Those additional suicides are over an order of magnitude greater than the number of adolescent COVID deaths.

So the point is not that something is callous or not. The question is if it is prudent. When your lockdowns of 18 and under kids is causing over 10 times as many additional suicides as the number of COVID deaths in this age group, then we have to step back and wonder what the he!! we are doing. And how many additional drug overdoses deaths have lockdowns caused or any other of the potential impacts?

 

[Nitt1300]

I guess you also hate the the other gutless draft dodger who is running against the president then.

As I've often said, I only vote for veterans for POTUS- so most years I have to do a write in. Would you like me to write you in this year?

 

[SLUPSU]

Except that you would be conflating two completely different statistics and errantly quoting them. The CDC reported on Friday that under age 18 population has a 99.997% survival rate IF THEY GET COVID. The denominator is the entire population of 0 - 18 year olds as you are trying to use for suicides which is the #2 cause of death in this age group.

The CDC also publishes all cause of death in adolescents (and other age groups) - over 20,000 per year. There were 2335 total suicides recorded in 2016 (the year's data that came up first in a search) among adolescents. Just for example, in Portland attempted suicides were up 41% over the previous year and had jumped 23% since the schools went to cyber only with the lock downs at the end of the last academic year. Let's be generous and assume only 20% increase in suicide attempts and the same success rate. Then we are talking 467 additional suicide deaths among adolescents is highly likely. Those additional suicides are over an order of magnitude greater than the number of adolescent COVID deaths.

So the point is not that something is callous or not. The question is if it is prudent. When your lockdowns of 18 and under kids is causing over 10 times as many additional suicides as the number of COVID deaths in this age group, then we have to step back and wonder what the he!! we are doing. And how many additional drug overdoses deaths have lockdowns caused or any other of the potential impacts?

You're getting in the statistical weeds to deflect from my point, an appropriate and accurate illustration of inconsistency (hypocrisy?) of many people.

 

[Lion84]

As I've often said, I only vote for veterans for POTUS- so most years I have to do a write in. Would you like me to write you in this year?

No - my philosophy on politician is that anyone who wants the job I probable don't want them elected and DC rarely proves me wrong.

 

[Thomas1945]

This country has desperately needed a universal military draft with no exemptions for the last 40 years. Not that I want kids in the military ( I was in the USMC for 4 years and I wouldn’t recommend the experience to anyone ). But do you all realize that if it had existed 90% of all those presently in the House of Representatives and Senate would now be living in Canada. Just imagine how much better our country would be today!!!!!

 

[Nitt1300]

No - my philosophy on politician is that anyone who wants the job I probable don't want them elected and DC rarely proves me wrong.

we do agree on something after all

 

[91Joe95]

That is the dirty little secret these governors are hiding.

People are still gathering. Just not in businesses.

LdN

Not the only dirty little secret.