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Teen suicide rates rising; linked to Covid lockdowns.

really sad.

I was thinking about this the other day. My daughter is, today, 16. She missed her entire sophomore spring semester. That includes spring sports and formals. She's also missed the entire fall sports season, which includes football and homecoming. On top of that, she's missed a ton of friend and after school time (clubs, plays, etc.).

I don't recall most of my entire 30's and some of my 40s. But I can tell you what happened on specific Friday and Saturday nights from age 14 through 22 on a minute by minute basis. It is such a large part of your mental and physical growth. We have no idea the damage done. This winter, I fear, is going to be a financial shit show.

My wife used to do competency hearing and she'd some home and tell me how an 80 year old guy invited her to the PX ("what is a PX" she asked) or to "the hop" or if she could handjive/jitterbug. For whatever reason, those years are remembered for the rest of your life.
 
really sad.

I was thinking about this the other day. My daughter is, today, 16. She missed her entire sophomore spring semester. That includes spring sports and formals. She's also missed the entire fall sports season, which includes football and homecoming. On top of that, she's missed a ton of friend and after school time (clubs, plays, etc.).

I don't recall most of my entire 30's and some of my 40s. But I can tell you what happened on specific Friday and Saturday nights from age 14 through 22 on a minute by minute basis. It is such a large part of your mental and physical growth. We have no idea the damage done. This winter, I fear, is going to be a financial shit show.

My wife used to do competency hearing and she'd some home and tell me how an 80 year old guy invited her to the PX ("what is a PX" she asked) or to "the hop" or if she could handjive/jitterbug. For whatever reason, those years are remembered for the rest of your life.
Exactly. I've been saying that there is a very high cost to the shut downs. Unfortunately, the least at risk seem to be paying the highest price. Many kids had their entire social structure removed for months (which for a kid seems like years). This is not just increasing suicides, it's increasing drug use, anxiety, social and mental issues, and increasing physical and sexual abuse. Plus, this generation is going to be so risk averse and scared to live if we don't let them live life. People think shutting down only saves lives. But it is starting to appear that the math will end up working out to a net loss in lives by shutting down. It's cruel and backward.
 
Exactly. I've been saying that there is a very high cost to the shut downs. Unfortunately, the least at risk seem to be paying the highest price. Many kids had their entire social structure removed for months (which for a kid seems like years). This is not just increasing suicides, it's increasing drug use, anxiety, social and mental issues, and increasing physical and sexual abuse. Plus, this generation is going to be so risk averse and scared to live if we don't let them live life. People think shutting down only saves lives. But it is starting to appear that the math will end up working out to a net loss in lives by shutting down. It's cruel and backward.

All we know statistically now is that there is a net gain in deaths. Will take a long time to show just how many were due to the shutdown.

As I said for months, scared old people and many who refuse to understand the math and science even when proven wrong are killing our youth.

At some time in March a shutdown made sense. That ended early April.

I would have never in my wildest imagination have believed just how selfish people and politicians are to destroy lives and family for political gain.

LdN
 
All we know statistically now is that there is a net gain in deaths. Will take a long time to show just how many were due to the shutdown.

As I said for months, scared old people and many who refuse to understand the math and science even when proven wrong are killing our youth.

At some time in March a shutdown made sense. That ended early April.

I would have never in my wildest imagination have believed just how selfish people and politicians are to destroy lives and family for political gain.

LdN
Sorry I can't recall the article but two prominent docs from separate universities in the NE, are proposing that for every 100 COVID deaths there are 20 COVID related deaths. So an additional 20 people dying during this pandemic for every 100 COVID deaths. People are dying due to the psychological and societal effects of the pandemic and its circumstances and not the virus. These folks are not dying with COVID but in essence because of COVID. People are not seeing drs. missing appts, too afraid to go to the ER or hospital out of fear of getting the virus, cancelled elective surgeries or tests, and suicides are making up a large percentage of these deaths.
 
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The teens in my neighborhood having been hanging out in large groups since about mid-June. In the past they usually got together in houses, but now the groups seem to be relegated to outdoor activities.

That is the dirty little secret these governors are hiding.

People are still gathering. Just not in businesses.

LdN
 
really sad.


I don't recall most of my entire 30's and some of my 40s. But I can tell you what happened on specific Friday and Saturday nights from age 14 through 22 on a minute by minute basis

Interesting because I could not even begin to tell anyone in detail for that time period other than what I deem to be very important events.
 
I was thinking about this the other day. My daughter is, today, 16. She missed her entire sophomore spring semester. That includes spring sports and formals. She's also missed the entire fall sports season, which includes football and homecoming. On top of that, sh
I somewhat understand your and daughter's pain and disappointment about missing out on her sophomore yr at school. My two grandgirls are going thru similar circumstances at Penn State. YES, this virus has impacted their social live tremendously, and haven't heard a peep of annoyance about their structured, isolated life. Has your daughter read Anne Frank?

Anne Frank : Diarist and optimist, whose story, The Diary of Anne Frank, is one of the most widely read books in the world. Everyone has heard of Anne Frank, the brave young girl who spent two years hiding from the Nazis and writing her diary in a secret annex in the attic of a house in Amsterdam. She was transported to Bergen-Belsen and died just weeks before the camp was liberated.
 
really sad.

I was thinking about this the other day. My daughter is, today, 16. She missed her entire sophomore spring semester. That includes spring sports and formals. She's also missed the entire fall sports season, which includes football and homecoming. On top of that, she's missed a ton of friend and after school time (clubs, plays, etc.).

I don't recall most of my entire 30's and some of my 40s. But I can tell you what happened on specific Friday and Saturday nights from age 14 through 22 on a minute by minute basis. It is such a large part of your mental and physical growth. We have no idea the damage done. This winter, I fear, is going to be a financial shit show.

My wife used to do competency hearing and she'd some home and tell me how an 80 year old guy invited her to the PX ("what is a PX" she asked) or to "the hop" or if she could handjive/jitterbug. For whatever reason, those years are remembered for the rest of your life.
i have no recollection of 1982 to 1986. If not for @PSUHarry33 id have nothing.
per my kids, if either missed their senior lax year, it would be the WORST. Bumming for these kids.
 
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I somewhat understand your and daughter's pain and disappointment about missing out on her sophomore yr at school. My two grandgirls are going thru similar circumstances at Penn State. YES, this virus has impacted their social live tremendously, and haven't heard a peep of annoyance about their structured, isolated life. Has your daughter read Anne Frank?

Anne Frank : Diarist and optimist, whose story, The Diary of Anne Frank, is one of the most widely read books in the world. Everyone has heard of Anne Frank, the brave young girl who spent two years hiding from the Nazis and writing her diary in a secret annex in the attic of a house in Amsterdam. She was transported to Bergen-Belsen and died just weeks before the camp was liberated.
In many ways, I've lead a charmed life. These last 6 months I've had a lot of time to reflect on the life and time of my parents. Their teen years coincided with the "Great Depression." I recall my Dad talking about how privileged he felt to have a job, any type of income. As a young couple with an infant son. they were separated for almost 3 years as my father was drafted and subsequently experienced combat service in Europe. Who gave my mother and father those 3 years back? Who did they blame? The president? Perhaps the French and British for failing to stand up to Hitler's early aggression? I mean someone should have been blamed, right? I don't recall stories about them taking to the streets to protest their fate.
More to the point, what about the 18-19 year old men who were maimed or lost their lives? They lost more than a prom, some are still socially distanced in military graves in Western Europe.
My uncle, age 19, left his right leg on the Ludendorff Bridge on the Rhine. He returned to America and shined shoes to survive before taking advantage of the GI Bill to obtain a college degree and become a biology teacher.
I've said many times, although unaware at the time, I grew up surrounded by heroes.
My parents and uncle just happened to be 3 of those heroes.
Things are difficult right now for young people. No one should try to sugar coat or deny this. Perhaps if the adults in their life would give them a history lesson, they might better understand that life is a relentless series of challenges. Perhaps teenagers simply need their parents to step up and be the kind of heroes mine were?
 
In many ways, I've lead a charmed life. These last 6 months I've had a lot of time to reflect on the life and time of my parents. Their teen years coincided with the "Great Depression." I recall my Dad talking about how privileged he felt to have a job, any type of income. As a young couple with an infant son. they were separated for almost 3 years as my father was drafted and subsequently experienced combat service in Europe. Who gave my mother and father those 3 years back? Who did they blame? The president? Perhaps the French and British for failing to stand up to Hitler's early aggression? I mean someone should have been blamed, right? I don't recall stories about them taking to the streets to protest their fate.
More to the point, what about the 18-19 year old men who were maimed or lost their lives? They lost more than a prom, some are still socially distanced in military graves in Western Europe.
My uncle, age 19, left his right leg on the Ludendorff Bridge on the Rhine. He returned to America and shined shoes to survive before taking advantage of the GI Bill to obtain a college degree and become a biology teacher.
I've said many times, although unaware at the time, I grew up surrounded by heroes.
My parents and uncle just happened to be 3 of those heroes.
Things are difficult right now for young people. No one should try to sugar coat or deny this. Perhaps if the adults in their life would give them a history lesson, they might better understand that life is a relentless series of challenges. Perhaps teenagers simply need their parents to step up and be the kind of heroes mine were?
When my Father was 12 years old .....he had 4 sisters and two parents ......in the middle of the depression......he was the only person in the family bringing money home to the family......as a result of caddying at the local golf club. He later served 4 years in the Navy during WWII in the middle of getting his degree at PSU. He went on to have a Great Life until passing away just shy of 88 years old. He left me with so many Great sayings that still resonate in my mind today. Such as........you often don't get to where you are in life by accident......and when I was having not my best day.......he let me know there were a hell of a lot of people in China that didn't give a dam! My father always seemed to ride the wave of life realizing that sometimes life gives you lemons and it's up to you what to make out of them. Much of today's American society thinks it's their birthright to have an idyllic childhood for all young people. Not very long ago there was much more uncertainty in how a person's life would play out.
 
In many ways, I've lead a charmed life. These last 6 months I've had a lot of time to reflect on the life and time of my parents. Their teen years coincided with the "Great Depression." I recall my Dad talking about how privileged he felt to have a job, any type of income. As a young couple with an infant son. they were separated for almost 3 years as my father was drafted and subsequently experienced combat service in Europe. Who gave my mother and father those 3 years back? Who did they blame? The president? Perhaps the French and British for failing to stand up to Hitler's early aggression? I mean someone should have been blamed, right? I don't recall stories about them taking to the streets to protest their fate.
More to the point, what about the 18-19 year old men who were maimed or lost their lives? They lost more than a prom, some are still socially distanced in military graves in Western Europe.
My uncle, age 19, left his right leg on the Ludendorff Bridge on the Rhine. He returned to America and shined shoes to survive before taking advantage of the GI Bill to obtain a college degree and become a biology teacher.
I've said many times, although unaware at the time, I grew up surrounded by heroes.
My parents and uncle just happened to be 3 of those heroes.
Things are difficult right now for young people. No one should try to sugar coat or deny this. Perhaps if the adults in their life would give them a history lesson, they might better understand that life is a relentless series of challenges. Perhaps teenagers simply need their parents to step up and be the kind of heroes mine were?
No doubt kids today are much more coddled than previous generations. But we aren't facing a fascist threat now (except I suppose in many cities that have recently burned). And WWII and every war had very deep psychological and social costs. My WWII uncle wouldn't speak of his experience until just before passing and then only talked to me. He hid behind dead bodies at Normandy for significant portions of the invasion. That kind of stuff is going to change some to a point that they really struggle mentally. But they were generally stronger men. And yet, every war carries very high suicide rates during and after. I've personally spent a good bit of time in multiple combat zones and some of those that I served with struggle every day. All of these men and women sacrificed for their country in a time of war. And many still struggle.

So now kids go from the most coddled and privileged generation in our nation's history with the least experience of sacrificing to having their world, their passions, their entire social structure taken away for what most of them would think is nothing (and the statistics back them up for their age group). Soldiers sacrificed for their country. These kids are sacrificing because of irrational fear. Soldiers stood up in the face of danger. These kids are forced to cower and hide. Soldiers leaned on each other and formed life long bonds that those who never served in a combat zone don't fully understand. Our kids are being forced to give up their bonds, give up their entire social network, and lean on maybe just a brother or sister if they have one. And again, it's all for a 99.999% survival rate according to the CDC if they even would get the virus.

We are forcing the softest generation to date to give up their world (even Soldiers in combat zones had sports and games and a social group) for what they have determined correctly is absolutely no good reason. Just because a bunch of adults refuse to consider the CDC data and appropriately analyze risk. Because a bunch of old people are selfish and won't let these kids live because they think it might possibly affect their risk as they still go out to big box stores and groceries. We're forcing young millennials (in competition for softest generation), many with a hundred thousand in college debt, to lose their jobs and delay their opportunities to get some financial foothold since a very disproportionate job impact is to those who were least experienced and established.

Did we not think this selfishness would come at a very steep cost? From coddled to isolation for 99.999% (kids) to 99.995% (young adults) risk if they get the virus going into the 8th month now with no apparent end date after telling them it was 15 days to flatten the curve? It's selfish. I don't know how else to describe what we are forcing on kids, maybe irrational, cruel, sad. I do think these generations could use some toughening up but I don't think go hide at the slightest hint of risk does it. And you want to teach them the lesson of sacrificing but it should be reinforced by those sacrifices earning them something. For our WWII heroes it was a lifetime of our nation's gratitude. For me as a kid running a paper route it was learning work ethic and dependability. But these kids are learning to sacrifice because older people are selfish, won't isolate themselves if they can't tolerate their age category risk, and are projecting irrational fears.
 
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No doubt kids today are much more coddled than previous generations. But we aren't facing a fascist threat now (except I suppose in many cities that have recently burned). And WWII and every war had very deep psychological and social costs. My WWII uncle wouldn't speak of his experience until just before passing and then only talked to me. He hid behind dead bodies at Normandy for significant portions of the invasion. That kind of stuff is going to change some to a point that they really struggle mentally. But they were generally stronger men. And yet, every war carries very high suicide rates during and after. I've personally spent a good bit of time in multiple combat zones and some of those that I served with struggle every day. All of these men and women sacrificed for their country in a time of war. And many still struggle.

So now kids go from the most coddled and privileged generation in our nation's history with the least experience of sacrificing to having their world, their passions, their entire social structure taken away for what most of them would think is nothing (and the statistics back them up for their age group). Soldiers sacrificed for their country. These kids are sacrificing because of irrational fear. Soldiers stood up in the face of danger. These kids are forced to cower and hide. Soldiers leaned on each other and formed life long bonds that those who never served in a combat zone don't fully understand. Our kids are being forced to give up their bonds, give up their entire social network, and lean on maybe just a brother or sister if they have one. And again, it's all for a 99.999% survival rate according to the CDC if they even would get the virus.

We are forcing the softest generation to date to give up their world (even Soldiers in combat zones had sports and games and a social group) for what they have determined correctly is absolutely no good reason. Just because a bunch of adults refuse to consider the CDC data and appropriately analyze risk. Because a bunch of old people are selfish and won't let these kids live because they think it might possibly affect their risk as they still go out to big box stores and groceries. We're forcing young millennials (in competition for softest generation), many with a hundred thousand in college debt, to lose their jobs and delay their opportunities to get some financial foothold since a very disproportionate job impact is to those who were least experienced and established.

Did we not think this selfishness would come at a very steep cost? From coddled to isolation for 99.999% (kids) to 99.995% (young adults) risk if they get the virus going into the 8th month now with no apparent end date after telling them it was 15 days to flatten the curve? It's selfish. I don't know how else to describe what we are forcing on kids, maybe irrational, cruel, sad. I do think these generations could use some toughening up but I don't think go hide at the slightest hint of risk does it. And you want to teach them the lesson of sacrificing but it should be reinforced by those sacrifices earning them something. For our WWII heroes it was a lifetime of gratitude. For me as a kid running a paper route it was learning work ethic. But these kids are learning to sacrifice because older people are selfish, won't isolate themselves if they can't tolerate their age category risk, and are projecting irrational fears.

Excellent post. Excellent.
 
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This is a Commentary piece from the right-wing Heritage Foundation that does not link to any actual scientific data. I would not be surprised if suicides were up, but y’all need to get better at discerning science from editorial commentary designed to lead you by the ring in your nose.
 
I think a lot of people are missing the point. Kids are dying in part to the fear tactics being used and not the disease itself. It doesnt surprise me many don’t want to address this piece of information as it would require them to take the extra precautions. Now those who are effectively their grandparents say “well others had it tougher”.
 
No doubt kids today are much more coddled than previous generations. But we aren't facing a fascist threat now (except I suppose in many cities that have recently burned). And WWII and every war had very deep psychological and social costs. My WWII uncle wouldn't speak of his experience until just before passing and then only talked to me. He hid behind dead bodies at Normandy for significant portions of the invasion. That kind of stuff is going to change some to a point that they really struggle mentally. But they were generally stronger men. And yet, every war carries very high suicide rates during and after. I've personally spent a good bit of time in multiple combat zones and some of those that I served with struggle every day. All of these men and women sacrificed for their country in a time of war. And many still struggle.

So now kids go from the most coddled and privileged generation in our nation's history with the least experience of sacrificing to having their world, their passions, their entire social structure taken away for what most of them would think is nothing (and the statistics back them up for their age group). Soldiers sacrificed for their country. These kids are sacrificing because of irrational fear. Soldiers stood up in the face of danger. These kids are forced to cower and hide. Soldiers leaned on each other and formed life long bonds that those who never served in a combat zone don't fully understand. Our kids are being forced to give up their bonds, give up their entire social network, and lean on maybe just a brother or sister if they have one. And again, it's all for a 99.999% survival rate according to the CDC if they even would get the virus.

We are forcing the softest generation to date to give up their world (even Soldiers in combat zones had sports and games and a social group) for what they have determined correctly is absolutely no good reason. Just because a bunch of adults refuse to consider the CDC data and appropriately analyze risk. Because a bunch of old people are selfish and won't let these kids live because they think it might possibly affect their risk as they still go out to big box stores and groceries. We're forcing young millennials (in competition for softest generation), many with a hundred thousand in college debt, to lose their jobs and delay their opportunities to get some financial foothold since a very disproportionate job impact is to those who were least experienced and established.

Did we not think this selfishness would come at a very steep cost? From coddled to isolation for 99.999% (kids) to 99.995% (young adults) risk if they get the virus going into the 8th month now with no apparent end date after telling them it was 15 days to flatten the curve? It's selfish. I don't know how else to describe what we are forcing on kids, maybe irrational, cruel, sad. I do think these generations could use some toughening up but I don't think go hide at the slightest hint of risk does it. And you want to teach them the lesson of sacrificing but it should be reinforced by those sacrifices earning them something. For our WWII heroes it was a lifetime of gratitude. For me as a kid running a paper route it was learning work ethic. But these kids are learning to sacrifice because older people are selfish, won't isolate themselves if they can't tolerate their age category risk, and are projecting irrational fears.
Learning to overcome adversity and a sense of entitlement is an invaluable life lesson, regardless of the circumstances that predicate it. The chickens have come home to roost for many parents who spent more effort into conceiving their children than rearing them. At the earliest possible opportunity infants are dropped off at day care and later the school district is the primary guardian as both parents demonstrate their right to "have it all." I have almost 4 decades as an educator to source my contention on this topic. I doubt that GI's, as they felt the life oozing from their bodies thought, at least I'm "sacrificing for my country." One could question why those young men really died in Europe. So half the continent could be "saved" from fascism only to live 5 decades under the yolk of communism? Let's not romanticize any conflict that sent young men to die on foreign soil.
Your characterization of the pandemic is an opinion you are entitled to.
My message to those who constantly whine about the current state of affairs is "buck up binkie."
 
Learning to overcome adversity and a sense of entitlement is an invaluable life lesson, regardless of the circumstances that predicate it. The chickens have come home to roost for many parents who spent more effort into conceiving their children than rearing them. At the earliest possible opportunity infants are dropped off at day care and later the school district is the primary guardian as both parents demonstrate their right to "have it all." I have a almost 4 decades as an educator to source my contention on this topic. I doubt that GI's, as they felt the life oozing from their bodies thought, at least I'm "sacrificing for my country." One could question why those young men really died in Europe. So half the continent could be "saved" from fascism only to live 5 decades under the yolk of communism? Let's not romanticize any conflict that sent young men to die on foreign soil.
Your characterization of the pandemic is an opinion you are entitled to.
My message to those who constantly whine about the current state of affairs is "buck up binkie."
Buck up binkie you could stay home. After all your grandkids aren’t at risk.
 
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This is a Commentary piece from the right-wing Heritage Foundation that does not link to any actual scientific data. I would not be surprised if suicides were up, but y’all need to get better at discerning science from editorial commentary designed to lead you by the ring in your nose.
These reports and observations are not occurring in a vacuum as much as you may prefer to dismiss them. Organizations that track this stuff are quicker to see the inflection point. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...itary-suicides-up-as-much-as-20-in-covid-era/
 
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This is a Commentary piece from the right-wing Heritage Foundation that does not link to any actual scientific data. I would not be surprised if suicides were up, but y’all need to get better at discerning science from editorial commentary designed to lead you by the ring in your nose.

Articles on this topic have been on numerous news outlets and media forms since summer.

 
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Buck up binkie you could stay home. After all your grandkids aren’t at risk.
I'm doing fine, thanks for your concern. I don't have any grandkids who are "dying in part (due) to the fear tactics" used....but then I'm not aware of COVID-19 deniers in my family.
 
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Learning to overcome adversity and a sense of entitlement is an invaluable life lesson, regardless of the circumstances that predicate it. The chickens have come home to roost for many parents who spent more effort into conceiving their children than rearing them. At the earliest possible opportunity infants are dropped off at day care and later the school district is the primary guardian as both parents demonstrate their right to "have it all." I have almost 4 decades as an educator to source my contention on this topic. I doubt that GI's, as they felt the life oozing from their bodies thought, at least I'm "sacrificing for my country." One could question why those young men really died in Europe. So half the continent could be "saved" from fascism only to live 5 decades under the yolk of communism? Let's not romanticize any conflict that sent young men to die on foreign soil.
Your characterization of the pandemic is an opinion you are entitled to.
My message to those who constantly whine about the current state of affairs is "buck up binkie."
Look, you and I agree on the coddling and outsourcing of parenting. Much of that is a product of women's rights leading to opportunities for women to now an expectation that 2 parents work. Much is also a product of the 2 parent family becoming an endangered species. Your experience in education has helped you to identify accurately issues with child rearing.

But you sure as he!! don't know service men and women like I do. There have been millions of volunteers to serve their country who raised their right hand during a time of war (almost endless over the last 20 years) knowing that it meant putting their lives on the line for their country. Few want to die in combat. But all accepted this risk voluntarily (since the Vietnam era). If you haven't done that, I can understand why you may not understand it. But as an educator, you have to accept that millions have chosen to serve during war for their country knowing full well that they could lose their lives or limbs. No one is romanticizing war but are you seriously trying to argue that our WWII vets sacrificed in vain? That what they did wasn't really all that important or consequential? I honestly don't know what to make of your position. It's not just our nation that owes these WWII heroes a debt of gratitude. It is clearly all free nations that do and anyone who doesn't possess blond hair and blue eyes.
 
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Articles on this topic have been on numerous news outlets and media forms since summer.

Agreed...there isn't a single news source I trust as I've seen every single one lie and obfuscate facts. So now, as @BringBackStoneys suggests:
  • I look for direct quotes. I dismiss anyplace where the article paraphrases the source.
  • If the source isn't named, I dismiss the information. Any source not named is called a "rumor".
  • I quit reading when I see phrases such as "could be", "maybe" and "as much as".
  • I do not take direct quotes from previous paragons of virtue such as the UN, CDC, or WHO as facts. They have all either failed to the point of negligence or simply lied on many occasions.
  • I try to find video, even that isn't infallible today, but it at least gives you context as many "quotes" are edited and parsed.
In this particular case, a quick google search will validate suicides are up (as is depression, drug use, domestic violence, etc.). Every source, today, is left or right wing. This is how they get access and gain influence. If you don't toe the line, you don't get that key interview, quote or are at the back of the list to get the news release. If you feel there aren't, I'd like to see them.
 
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Articles on this topic have been on numerous news outlets and media forms since summer.

Thanks for proving my point for me. That article cites no evidence of increased suicides, but the suggestive title has suckers like you swimming in confirmation bias. The underlying data is from 2019.

Again, I would not be surprised if suicides proves to be up but I will wait for actual data before positing theories on the underlying causes.
 
Nothing in this thread is surprising, except the apparent lack of any personal responsibility.

Suicide is always tragic- it's also a personal decision and if fault must be found it's on the individual who makes that bad decision.
 
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Deaths from suicide and drug overdose have always been tied to the unemployment rate. So it was pretty much a given they were going to rise. I don't doubt that the virus and related measures to limit spread are also driving up rates in excess of what you'd expect due to the increase in the rate of unemployment.

These are the deaths no one wanted to talk about when we shut things down. The war cry was that we needed to take all measures necessary to save lives. But what about these lives? They have to be factored into decision making too.
 
Look, you and I agree on the coddling and outsourcing of parenting. Much of that is a product of women's rights leading to opportunities for women to now an expectation that 2 parents work. Much is also a product of the 2 parent family becoming an endangered species. Your experience in education has helped you to identify accurately issues with child rearing.

But you sure as he!! don't know service men and women like I do. There have been millions of volunteers to serve their country who raised their right hand during a time of war (almost endless over the last 20 years) knowing that it meant putting their lives on the line for their country. Few want to die in combat. But all accepted this risk voluntarily (since the Vietnam era). If you haven't done that, I can understand why you may not understand it. But as an educator, you have to accept that millions have chosen to serve during war for their country knowing full well that they could lose their lives or limbs. No one is romanticizing war but are you seriously trying to argue that our WWII vets sacrificed in vain? That what they did wasn't really all that important or consequential? I honestly don't know what to make of your position. It's not just our nation that owes these WWII heroes a debt of gratitude. It is clearly all free nations that do and anyone who doesn't possess blond hair and blue eyes.
I'm not questioning the quality of the sacrifice, nor the well earned gratitude those who made the "ultimate sacrifice" deserve. Perhaps you need to re read my post. The ally of the United States during WW2 was the Soviet Union, led by Joseph Stalin. A little research would inform you that he was Adolph Hitler's equal in every contemptible way. Despite the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of American GI's much of Europe fell under his tyranny (including Poland, which ironically Britain and France declared war over its (invasion) for more than 5 decades. Funny how some here want to point to the "politics" of COVID, but otherwise its the forest and trees.
 
Thanks for proving my point for me. That article cites no evidence of increased suicides, but the suggestive title has suckers like you swimming in confirmation bias. The underlying data is from 2019.

Again, I would not be surprised if suicides proves to be up but I will wait for actual data before positing theories on the underlying causes.

Suicide proves to be up? The rates will skyrocket. Media reports, web searches, anecdotal stories, tell the story. Adult rates will soar. One of my boys works for a very large behavioral health company. Even with Covid, they are hitting record admittance numbers, These numbers will only increase as people are not able to financially hold on. Unfortunately, you will be seeing these numbers in reports and statistics over the next 6 to 12 months.
 
Nothing in this thread is surprising, except the apparent lack of any personal responsibility.

Suicide is always tragic- it's also a personal decision and if fault must be found it's on the individual who makes that bad decision.
I am an advocate of personal responsibility and I don't know that anyone has argued that those committing suicide don't bear the ultimate responsibility for their action. But how callous and cold is it to dismiss conditions which clearly are causing significant increases in the thousands making this horrible decision? We can't possibly think that we don't bear any responsibility to remove conditions that are causing tens of thousands of additional lives lost to suicides (and uncaught cancer and heart disease, drug and alcohol abuse, etc.) because those people bear responsibility for their own loss of life? It's almost like saying that those that make public policy decisions should not be held accountable for significant results due to those decisions because all individuals bear responsibility for themselves and their well being. That's just not right and would lead to more and more devastating public policy with nothing to hold decision makers accountable.
 
Look, you and I agree on the coddling and outsourcing of parenting. Much of that is a product of women's rights leading to opportunities for women to now an expectation that 2 parents work. Much is also a product of the 2 parent family becoming an endangered species. Your experience in education has helped you to identify accurately issues with child rearing.

But you sure as he!! don't know service men and women like I do. There have been millions of volunteers to serve their country who raised their right hand during a time of war (almost endless over the last 20 years) knowing that it meant putting their lives on the line for their country. Few want to die in combat. But all accepted this risk voluntarily (since the Vietnam era). If you haven't done that, I can understand why you may not understand it. But as an educator, you have to accept that millions have chosen to serve during war for their country knowing full well that they could lose their lives or limbs. No one is romanticizing war but are you seriously trying to argue that our WWII vets sacrificed in vain? That what they did wasn't really all that important or consequential? I honestly don't know what to make of your position. It's not just our nation that owes these WWII heroes a debt of gratitude. It is clearly all free nations that do and anyone who doesn't possess blond hair and blue eyes.

You are arguing with a teacher who has a pension and no financial fear of the lockdown. Checks are coming in. House is paid for. He hides in his basement and yells buckle up.

He is using the valor of his parents generation and compares that to people under 50 today and trying to make some point.

In the meantime he lived during the period of the greatest growth and prosperity for any people of any country ever in the world and is talking about the sacrifice of raising his kids during that same period.

These are the people MacDaddy was talking about.

LdN
 
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I'm not questioning the quality of the sacrifice, nor the well earned gratitude those who made the "ultimate sacrifice" deserve. Perhaps you need to re read my post. The ally of the United States during WW2 was the Soviet Union, led by Joseph Stalin. A little research would inform you that he was Adolph Hitler's equal in every contemptible way. Despite the sacrifice of hundreds of thousands of American GI's much of Europe fell under his tyranny (including Poland, which ironically Britain and France declared war over its (invasion) for more than 5 decades. Funny how some here want to point to the "politics" of COVID, but otherwise its the forest and trees.
So then is it your contention that we should not have gotten involved or perhaps you measure more total lives lost or adversely impacted by winning this war as opposed to some other alternative? I'd be interested in reading how you believe it would have played out if you had your druthers. What specific actions at that point in time minimize lives lost and tyranny while we are Monday morning QBing? Or is it enough to diminish the sacrifices and heroism of WWII vets by concluding that they prevented Nazi domination but unwittingly enabled an equally tragic outcome, essentially it was for nothing?
 
I am an advocate of personal responsibility and I don't know that anyone has argued that those committing suicide don't bear the ultimate responsibility for their action. But how callous and cold is it to dismiss conditions which clearly are causing significant increases in the thousands making this horrible decision? We can't possibly think that we don't bear any responsibility to remove conditions that are causing tens of thousands of additional lives lost to suicides (and uncaught cancer and heart disease, drug and alcohol abuse, etc.) because those people bear responsibility for their own loss of life? It's almost like saying that those that make public policy decisions should not be held accountable for significant results due to those decisions because all individuals bear responsibility for themselves and their well being. That's just not right and would lead to more and more devastating public policy with nothing to hold decision makers accountable.
I do blame the total lack of leadership at the national level for much of this, just not for suicides.

If you want to blame someone other than the suicides themselves, start with the parents. I don't know where these "soft" people you all are talking about come from, none of my kids are soft. Neither are my grandkids.
 
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In many ways, I've lead a charmed life. These last 6 months I've had a lot of time to reflect on the life and time of my parents. Their teen years coincided with the "Great Depression." I recall my Dad talking about how privileged he felt to have a job, any type of income. As a young couple with an infant son. they were separated for almost 3 years as my father was drafted and subsequently experienced combat service in Europe. Who gave my mother and father those 3 years back? Who did they blame? The president? Perhaps the French and British for failing to stand up to Hitler's early aggression? I mean someone should have been blamed, right? I don't recall stories about them taking to the streets to protest their fate.
More to the point, what about the 18-19 year old men who were maimed or lost their lives? They lost more than a prom, some are still socially distanced in military graves in Western Europe.
My uncle, age 19, left his right leg on the Ludendorff Bridge on the Rhine. He returned to America and shined shoes to survive before taking advantage of the GI Bill to obtain a college degree and become a biology teacher.
I've said many times, although unaware at the time, I grew up surrounded by heroes.
My parents and uncle just happened to be 3 of those heroes.
Things are difficult right now for young people. No one should try to sugar coat or deny this. Perhaps if the adults in their life would give them a history lesson, they might better understand that life is a relentless series of challenges. Perhaps teenagers simply need their parents to step up and be the kind of heroes mine were?
Apples and watermelons, but thanks for playing.
 
I do blame the total lack of leadership at the national level for much of this, just not for suicides.

If you want to blame someone other than the suicides themselves, start with the parents. I don't know where these "soft" people you all are talking about come from, none of my kids are soft. Neither are my grandkids.
Good for you then not coddling your kids and hopefully teaching them responsibility and self-reliance. We need a lot more of that.

Why do you blame only the national level for much of this and not the governors who are calling the shots? There have been incredibly varying outcomes in states responses and results (deaths, economic, and all of these secondary and tertiary effects such as violence, suicides, mental and social disorders, drugs and alcohol abuse, anxiety, etc.). It's not like we have had a draconian national order to shut things down, telling states how/where/when to shut down or re-open, ordering states on exactly what they have to do to protect those at the most risk or like PA force COVID infectious patients by public health order into nursing homes, etc. Is it your belief that the governors who are actually making all of these decisions bear no responsibility for the outcomes?

Or do you think we needed a one size fits all solution? North Dakota is the same as NY? Everyone in lockstep follow as we are told even if isn't applicable where we live? No thinking, no granularity, no consideration of local concerns or variances, just do as your supreme leader dictates?
 
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