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Spanier Avoids Jailtime?

But Indy, I think you made the leap a few years from believing the admins were screwed over to believeing they were screwed over and Jerry is innocent.


I’m not going to change your mind, I know. But if Jerry Sandusky was not alone in a shower with a boy on two separate occasions, there would not be a case to manufacture. It defies logic to think that was just innocent naïveté, but that is your prerogative.

You can think all you want. I don't believe the commonwealth made its case fairly or convincingly. I think the trial was rushed through. I don't believe Jerry was ever given the presumption of innocence. He sure wasn't given it by me. However, wanting to see a fair trial and discounting the possibility of his guilt are two different things. I think he was railroaded. I also think he could be guilty as hell. I can't dismiss everything. I just feel that if it was that much of an open and shut case, the OAG wouldn't have had to trample all over the truth and the law to prove the allegations were true.

Jerry showering alone with a boy is stupid, suspicious and odd, but it is not against the law. The response to MM's report by the PSU admins was to take preventive measures to ensure that a repeat of '98 did not occur. I believe C/S/S and maybe even Joe saw that PSU would have been screwed had the mother of V6 chosen to file a civil suit naming PSU, even though no criminal charges were filed against Jerry. Why else would the "only downside" on Spanier's radar have to be triggered by a future occurrence?

There's a reason Spanier didn't feel "vulnerable" for not reporting the '01 incident as long as Jerry got their message. And there's a reason he would have felt "vulnerable" if Jerry hadn't. The V2 matter wasn't a problem in and of itself. It was only a problem if Jerry continued to shower alone with TSM kids. Now we both know that if Spanier thought V2 might have had reason to go to the authorities himself (his mother), as V6's mother did, he would have been all over it. He would have thrown JS under the bus in a heart beat.
 
You can think all you want. I don't believe the commonwealth made its case fairly or convincingly. I think the trial was rushed through. I don't believe Jerry was ever given the presumption of innocence. He sure wasn't given it by me. However, wanting to see a fair trial and discounting the possibility of his guilt are two different things. I think he was railroaded. I also think he could be guilty as hell. I can't dismiss everything. I just feel that if it was that much of an open and shut case, the OAG wouldn't have had to trample all over the truth and the law to prove the allegations were true.

Jerry showering alone with a boy is stupid, suspicious and odd, but it is not against the law. The response to MM's report by the PSU admins was to take preventive measures to ensure that a repeat of '98 did not occur. I believe C/S/S and maybe even Joe saw that PSU would have been screwed had the mother of V6 chosen to file a civil suit naming PSU, even though no criminal charges were filed against Jerry. Why else would the "only downside" on Spanier's radar have to be triggered by a future occurrence?

There's a reason Spanier didn't feel "vulnerable" for not reporting the '01 incident as long as Jerry got their message. And there's a reason he would have felt "vulnerable" if Jerry hadn't. The V2 matter wasn't a problem in and of itself. It was only a problem if Jerry continued to shower alone with TSM kids. Now we both know that if Spanier thought V2 might have had reason to go to the authorities himself (his mother), as V6's mother did, he would have been all over it. He would have thrown JS under the bus in a heart beat.

Well enough Indy. Just keep in mind that Jerry doesn’t have to be innocent for there to have been a miscarriage of justice for the administrators.
 
I wonder why Spanier and others did not defend Penn State before the media fiasco to begin with. Face the media and answer their questions to nip some of the fabricated stories in the bud of course not all are winnable. Get all the media in one place, bring everyone who is involved including Joe to address the media.
 
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I wonder why Spanier and others did not defend Penn State before the media fiasco to begin with. Face the media and answer their questions to nip some of the fabricated stories in the bud of course not all are winnable. Get all the media in one place, bring everyone who is involved including Joe to address the media.

1. Spanier offered "unconditional support" to Schultz and Curley in a media statement
2. Paterno was thwarted by the BOT and not permitted to speak.


The Paterno incident was to keep the false narrative the BOT and OAG had already started going.
 
I wonder why Spanier and others did not defend Penn State before the media fiasco to begin with. Face the media and answer their questions to nip some of the fabricated stories in the bud of course not all are winnable. Get all the media in one place, bring everyone who is involved including Joe to address the media.
As stated above, the BOT muzzled Joe. They were successful because he could have lost his pension if he disobeyed them. Spanier and others would have had the same threat levied against them if they got too far out of line.
 
I wonder why Spanier and others did not defend Penn State before the media fiasco to begin with. Face the media and answer their questions to nip some of the fabricated stories in the bud of course not all are winnable. Get all the media in one place, bring everyone who is involved including Joe to address the media.
I wonder why Spanier and others did not defend Penn State before the media fiasco to begin with. Face the media and answer their questions to nip some of the fabricated stories in the bud of course not all are winnable. Get all the media in one place, bring everyone who is involved including Joe to address the media.
1. Spanier offered "unconditional support" to Schultz and Curley in a media statement
2. Paterno was thwarted by the BOT and not permitted to speak.


The Paterno incident was to keep the false narrative the BOT and OAG had already started going.
Remember that Lubert singled out Spanier for not being proactive in his discussions with other administrators about Sandusky's habit of showering with young boys, as evidenced by two separate incidents in 1998 and 2001. According to Lubert, Spanier supposedly decided, "I'm not gonna call human services or research any further whether something happened or didn't happen" when it came to Sandusky and the boys in the shower.
"And then it cost us $200 million to settle this. And he stays on as president," Lubert huffed about Spanier. "That can't happen."
Lubert turned his attention to the question of whether Penn State's top officials committed any crimes.
"I was surprised when they pled guilty," Lubert said, presumably about Schultz and Curley. "I don't think they broke the law. I think they used very poor judgment. And, as I said to you, very poor leadership . . . That doesn't make them bad people. It just means you can't work at Penn State or any other university or any company when you demonstrate that failure in leadership."

"I fired him for that reason," Lubert said, presumably talking about Spanier. "Not because he broke the law but because he used bad judgment."
 
I actually think it is more likely that there were financial irregularities involving some powerful people. Doesn't anyone else think that it is strange that Corbett approved a large state grant to TSM months before the Sandusky indictment? I have no evidence but would not be surprised if there were kickbacks to politicians, money laundering or both. Why did those shredder trucks pull up to TSM so fast?

corbett started investigating sandusky as AG, albeit very slowly. Then as governor, knowing the sandusky investigation was incomplete (i.e., script not fully written), he approved funding for a new facility for the second mile very soon after taking office. That is odd, to say the least. corbett simply could have adopted a policy of approving no funding for the second mile while sandusky was under investigation. Furthermore, if the investigation were legitimate, it would have extended to the second mile as an organization, which would have further justified a hold on funding. All of this could have been done without fanfare pending completion of the investigation.
 
I wonder why Spanier and others did not defend Penn State before the media fiasco to begin with. Face the media and answer their questions to nip some of the fabricated stories in the bud of course not all are winnable. Get all the media in one place, bring everyone who is involved including Joe to address the media.

Spanier did defend Schultz and Curley shortly after their indictments, and Spanier got a lot of grief for it. Of course, Spanier was removed as president shortly after that.
 
Remember that Lubert singled out Spanier for not being proactive in his discussions with other administrators about Sandusky's habit of showering with young boys, as evidenced by two separate incidents in 1998 and 2001. According to Lubert, Spanier supposedly decided, "I'm not gonna call human services or research any further whether something happened or didn't happen" when it came to Sandusky and the boys in the shower.
"And then it cost us $200 million to settle this. And he stays on as president," Lubert huffed about Spanier. "That can't happen."
Lubert turned his attention to the question of whether Penn State's top officials committed any crimes.
"I was surprised when they pled guilty," Lubert said, presumably about Schultz and Curley. "I don't think they broke the law. I think they used very poor judgment. And, as I said to you, very poor leadership . . . That doesn't make them bad people. It just means you can't work at Penn State or any other university or any company when you demonstrate that failure in leadership."

"I fired him for that reason," Lubert said, presumably talking about Spanier. "Not because he broke the law but because he used bad judgment."
HAHAHA. “Bad leadership” doesn’t seem to disqualify anyone from BOT membership.
 
Spanier did defend Schultz and Curley shortly after their indictments, and Spanier got a lot of grief for it. Of course, Spanier was removed as president shortly after that.
Just as well.
Health problems doomed them all.
Former Penn State VP Gary Schultz, 67, is the primary caretaker for his wife, Karen, his high school sweetheart, who has MS. Schultz also cares for his 86-year-old mother-in-law, who moved into Schultz's house in November, 2015. Both Schultz's wife and mother-in-law depend on Schultz's assistance to get through their daily lives, Schultz's lawyers stated in a sentencing memorandum ignored by the judge.

Former Penn State Athletic Director Tim Curley, 63, suffers from "incurable lung cancer," his lawyer wrote. "Any term of incarceration would negatively impact his health, his ongoing treatment and continuity of health care and cause extreme hardship to himself and his family." In addition, Curley's cancer treatment "has caused liver damage making him susceptible to infection and illness," his lawyer wrote.

But in the interests of "justice," the show must go on. The Penn State trio must do jail time for misdemeanors, after seeing their careers torched, and their reputations destroyed.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SdNTTXUJ...ZfKeACLcB/s1600/GoldenImage_Preview_Video.png
The charade of the Penn State trio going off to prison for supposedly turning a blind eye to the suffering of the sainted "victims" of Jerry Sandusky must play out. So in this morality play staged by the prosecutors and judges, the media and public must see someone pay for the sins of Jerry Sandusky.

Even though Jerry's already doing up to 60 years in solitary confinement.

The official Penn State storyline, as promulgated by the media and the justice system, is like King Nebuchadnezzar's 90-foot tall golden statue in the Old Testament book of Daniel. Everyone must bow and worship before it. Or be thrown into the fiery media furnace, as well as jail.

As stated by the prosecutors and the judge in this case, the Penn State trio must also may for the sins of the deniers of the official version of the truth. Bloggers and blasphemers like former PSU trustee Al Lord, who famously said he was "running out of sympathy for 35 so-called victims with 7-digit net worth."

But anyone with a sane mind would have to see some gaping holes in the Penn State storyline we've been fed for the past seven years. Such as:

-- The entire 2011 grand jury report is built upon a lie, that Mike McQueary supposedly saw Jerry Sandusky in the Penn State showers engaged in an "anal rape" of a 10-year-old boy. Even McQueary wrote in an email to the prosecutors that it never happened, he never saw penetration, and that the prosecutors "twisted" his words.

-- Of the 24 original charges filed by the attorney general's office against the Penn State trio, the only three that stuck were three misdemeanor charges for endangering the welfare of a child. Charges that I've already explained were filed under an original 1972 state law that didn't even apply to the Penn State trio.

-- Many in Penn State nation seem to think that Jerry Sandusky was a master pedophile, and that the AG's office should have spent their time investigating Sandusky's Second Mile charity, instead of Penn State. A vocal minority believe that Sandusky was innocent, and that the prosecutors manufactured evidence against him. As well as victims.
 
Well enough Indy. Just keep in mind that Jerry doesn’t have to be innocent for there to have been a miscarriage of justice for the administrators.
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It's a point a few here seem to miss. Jerry is guilty as sin...doesn't make the witch hunt right.
 
Remember that Lubert singled out Spanier for not being proactive in his discussions with other administrators about Sandusky's habit of showering with young boys, as evidenced by two separate incidents in 1998 and 2001. According to Lubert, Spanier supposedly decided, "I'm not gonna call human services or research any further whether something happened or didn't happen" when it came to Sandusky and the boys in the shower.
"And then it cost us $200 million to settle this. And he stays on as president," Lubert huffed about Spanier. "That can't happen."
Lubert turned his attention to the question of whether Penn State's top officials committed any crimes.
"I was surprised when they pled guilty," Lubert said, presumably about Schultz and Curley. "I don't think they broke the law. I think they used very poor judgment. And, as I said to you, very poor leadership . . . That doesn't make them bad people. It just means you can't work at Penn State or any other university or any company when you demonstrate that failure in leadership."

"I fired him for that reason," Lubert said, presumably talking about Spanier. "Not because he broke the law but because he used bad judgment."


Lubert = turd.
 
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It's a point a few here seem to miss. Jerry is guilty as sin...doesn't make the witch hunt right.
Guilty of what....Anal Rape in the showers of PSU. By virtue of the Sandusky Trial and a testimony by MM who stated in writing that that was not what he saw in 2001...a point exposed during the Sandusky "Kangaroo Trial" that was NOT LEGALLY CREDIBLE.

See what you keep preaching is Jerry is GUILTY AS HELL...based upon what??? Based upon that is what you WANT TO BELIEVE??? Who made you God and so 100% sure of this statement. What is your defining proof of LEGAL guilt???

Or is your "Guilt" determination based on the testimony of the "Victims". Victims which that required 3 months of isolated "Therapy" to remember the horrors of Sandusky's abuse (even though they stated originally that abuse was not part of their relationship with Sandusky.

FACT....there is much more - REPEAT MOUNTAINS MORE - REAL evidence that this was a political hit job and that PSU's involvement here was to supply the Criminal Politicians and their accomplices with the funds to "cover expenses" in this criminal conspiracy.

I've said it before....Sandusky's actions are one issue - the involvement of PSU in all of this is another.

WITHOUT A DOUBT - PSU's involvement was ENGINEERED into this and this is involving one event in 2001 was an "engineered" crime made possible by PA corruption. Considering what we know today (7+ Years later) Sandusky was convicted on "...what could have been..." - not what the law requires as what factually happened.

There are just TOO MANY CORRUPTIONS CAUSED BY OAG and PA Courts for anyone to believe anything that applies to PSU and , even, Sandusky..

A more compelling answer is this......that the "story" of Guilt that you say is so "obvious" can not be true because, if it was true, then why do all key OAG assertions and testimonies on which the prosecution was based require so many known AND FACTUAL legal corruptions to support its "Story"???!!!!
 
Spanier did defend Schultz and Curley shortly after their indictments, and Spanier got a lot of grief for it. Of course, Spanier was removed as president shortly after that.
IMHO rightfully so. To be clear, I unequivocally agree with his decision to support Curly & Schultz. His insistence on making that support public facing on November 7th 2011 (or thereabouts) was the mistake.
 
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corbett started investigating sandusky as AG, albeit very slowly. Then as governor, knowing the sandusky investigation was incomplete (i.e., script not fully written), he approved funding for a new facility for the second mile very soon after taking office. That is odd, to say the least. corbett simply could have adopted a policy of approving no funding for the second mile while sandusky was under investigation. Furthermore, if the investigation were legitimate, it would have extended to the second mile as an organization, which would have further justified a hold on funding. All of this could have been done without fanfare pending completion of the investigation.

Didn't Corbett actually praise the 2nd Mile well after everything happened? For some reason I seem to recall he did it at a USX facility while wearing a hard hat.
 
IMHO rightfully so. To be clear, I unequivocally agree with his decision to support Curly & Schultz. His insistence on making that support public facing on November 7th 2011 (or thereabouts) was the mistake.
Will you expound upon the mistake part? I'm not being argumentative. I'm just trying to understand your POV. I'm not sure why it makes a difference.

Is it the timing of the support or is it the fact that he said it publicly?

The poster who prompted this detour said he wished Spanier would have defended C&S. How does one defend them by remaining silent?

As for me, I take those sort of pronouncements with a grain of salt. For instance, every time a celebrity, or even an average person, is charged with a crime, when a microphone is shoved in front of their lawyer, the response is usually one of three things
1. My client is innocent and we will vigorously defend these charges;
2. Let's let the facts of the case play out; or,
2. No Comment. :)

I'm not sure I've ever seen a lawyer come out and say, "My client is guilty. My hope is to minimize the damage". Of course I expect the lawyer/supporter to say, My client/friend is innocent. Announcing it has very little impact one way or the other.

I will counter this with our BOT who, without any regard to any facts of the matter essentially announced, "Our president and coach are guilty; Burn them now!"
 
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corbett started investigating sandusky as AG, albeit very slowly. Then as governor, knowing the sandusky investigation was incomplete (i.e., script not fully written), he approved funding for a new facility for the second mile very soon after taking office. That is odd, to say the least. corbett simply could have adopted a policy of approving no funding for the second mile while sandusky was under investigation. Furthermore, if the investigation were legitimate, it would have extended to the second mile as an organization, which would have further justified a hold on funding. All of this could have been done without fanfare pending completion of the investigation.
I think the problem with Jerry Sandusky is that he actually is a pedophile, but Tom Corbett's OAG created so many false victims surrounding him that it's now impossible to weed through the false victims to find the real victims.

Tom Corbett's intention was to damage Penn State and to take out his perceived nemesis, Graham Spanier. He used Sandusky, a man associated with Penn State(although long retired), to bring false charges against Graham Spanier.

Corbett's 10 years as PA Attorney General would give him first-hand knowledge of complaints filed against Sandusky. So what does Tom Corbett do about the complaints made of Sandusky's suspected child abuse? He sits on them for 10 years, then uses it to damage innocent men and an entire University. This was to deflect public attention away from Corbett's own failure to investigate Sandusky complaints for 10 years. Corbett and The Second Mile had a nice reciprocal arrangement of "finance" going on.

Yes, Jerry Sandusky is what he appears to be. But Tom Corbett and Louis Freeh have added so many false victims and a false rape story to the whole picture to destroy innocent men.

Basically, Corbett and Freeh commandeered an entire university for the sake of hiding and continuing financial corruption within the BoT
 
Will you expound upon the mistake part? I'm not being argumentative. I'm just trying to understand your POV. I'm not sure why it makes a difference.

Is it the timing of the support or is it the fact that he said it publicly?

The poster who prompted this detour said he wished Spanier would have defended C&S. How does one defend them by remaining silent?

As for me, I take those sort of pronouncements with a grain of salt. For instance, every time a celebrity, or even an average person, is charged with a crime, when a microphone is shoved in front of their lawyer, the response is usually one of three things
1. My client is innocent and we will vigorously defend these charges;
2. Let's let the facts of the case play out; or,
2. No Comment. :)

I'm not sure I've ever seen a lawyer come out and say, "My client is guilty. My hope is to minimize the damage". Of course I expect the lawyer/supporter to say, My client/friend is innocent. Announcing it has very little impact one way or the other.

I will counter this with our BOT who, without any regard to any facts of the matter essentially announced, "Our president and coach are guilty; Burn them now!"
By putting his support for Curly and Schultz in the public domain, Spanier publicly had chosen a side. What was needed from leadership in that moment was a voice of reason calmly asking for patience while due process ran its course. Sadly that’s exactly the message that was never provided by any of Penn State’s leadership.
 
By putting his support for Curly and Schultz in the public domain, Spanier publicly had chosen a side. What was needed from leadership in that moment was a voice of reason calmly asking for patience while due process ran its course. Sadly that’s exactly the message that was never provided by any of Penn State’s leadership.
Thanks Zeno, elegant response.
 
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IMHO rightfully so. To be clear, I unequivocally agree with his decision to support Curly & Schultz. His insistence on making that support public facing on November 7th 2011 (or thereabouts) was the mistake.
Don't forget Baldwin.
The actions of Fina and Baldwin in the grand jury were so egregious it prompted the state Superior Court to throw out a total of eight charges of perjury, obstruction of justice and conspiracy against Schultz, Curley and Spanier.

Baldwin has already been called to task for her alleged ethical lapses. At a two-hour disciplinary hearing on May 23 in Pittsburgh, Baldwin, a former state Supreme Court justice, contended she wasn't guilty of any misconduct. She testified that after she received grand jury subpoenas for Curley and Schultz, she allegedly told them, as well as Spanier, that she couldn't be their personal lawyer because she was representing Penn State. Baldwin also asserted that she told the Penn State officials their communication with her wouldn't remain confidential, and that they were free to get outside lawyers to represent them.

"Don't be nervous. Just tell the truth," Baldwin testified that she advised Curley.

Baldwin testified that both Curley and Schultz described a shower incident allegedly witnessed by whistleblower Mike McQueary back in 2001 involving Sandusky and a naked boy as "horseplay." Baldwin also contended that she asked the Penn State officials if they knew of any documents describing that incident that had been requested by a subpoena from the attorney general's office, and that her clients replied that they didn't know about any such documents.

Baldwin testified she felt "duped" when months later, a file kept by Schultz documenting the shower incident involving Sandusky was turned over to investigators.

In court records, Baldwin's former clients, however, tell a different story. They contend that Baldwin did not inform them of the risks of appearing before the grand jury, and misled them about the grand jury's mission. Schultz also stated that he told Baldwin about the file he kept on Sandusky.

Baldwin's former clients contend in affidavits that because of her inept representation, and outright deception about the grand jury's true mission, Baldwin transformed her clients into sitting ducks for Frank Fina.

"Ms. Baldwin informed me that the grand jury investigation focused on Jerry Sandusky, not on me or PSU, and that I was being called purely as a witness," Schultz wrote in an affidavit recently unsealed in Dauphin County. "Ms. Baldwin told me that neither I nor PSU were under investigation," Schultz wrote. "She told me that I could have outside counsel, if I wished, but at that point, seeing all the stories [of the Penn State officials] are consistent, she could represent me, Tim Curley and Joe Paterno as well."

Schultz said he told Baldwin he might have a file on Sandusky still in his office, and that it "might help refresh my memory" to review its contents. But Schultz said that Baldwin told him not to "look for or review any materials."

"Ms. Baldwin also told me that PSU and I were not targets of the investigation and that I would be treated as a witness," Schultz wrote. "There never was any discussion of the Fifth Amendment privilege or the risk of self-incrimination."

"I believed that Ms. Baldwin was representing me in connection with the grand jury proceedings and that she was looking out for my interests," Schulz wrote. "Based on her representations, I did not believe I needed a separate lawyer."

In his affidavit of Oct. 25, 2012, Schultz wrote that Baldwin only told him he needed a separate lawyer "approximately one week before the charges were filed against me."

Former Penn State University President Graham Spanier made similar, disturbing claims about the actions of Baldwin.

In a Jan. 16, 2013 affidavit, Spanier wrote that prior to his grand jury appearance, Baldwin "did not reveal that I had been subpoenaed, and I believed that I was going voluntarily. She did not inform me that Penn State and I were targets of the investigation. As far as I knew, the investigation focused solely on Sandusky."

When Spanier appeared before the grand jury in 2011, "I believed that Ms. Baldwin was representing me during and in connection with the grand jury proceedings and that she was acting in my best interests," Spanier wrote. " Although Ms. Baldwin mentioned that I was entitled to a separate attorney, she did not encourage me to retain one, or explain why I might want one. Based on her representations, I did not believe I needed a separate lawyer."

"On the day of my grand jury testimony, Ms. Baldwin accompanied my swearing in" before the judge, and "stated that she was representing me in connection with my testimony," Spanier wrote. "And I had no reason to think otherwise."

"Ms. Baldwin sat with me in the grand jury room," Spanier wrote. "I was asked by the OAG attorney whether I was represented by counsel. I responded that I was, and identified Ms. Baldwin. She did not say anything."

"Ms. Baldwin first told me that I should retain a separate attorney on Nov. 8, 2011, after Sandusky, Schultz and Curley had been indicted," Spanier wrote. "At no point did I waive my right to confidentiality in my communications with Mrs. Baldwin or otherwise waive attorney-client privilege."

Tomorrow, it will be Fina's turn to answer those charges of misconduct.

In a response to the disciplinary board's accusations, Fina's lawyers, Dennis C. McAndrews and Joseph E. McGettigan 3d, contend that Fina "has not violated any rule of conduct" and they request that the board dismiss the charges against him.

In attempting to extricate Fina from his ethical dilemma and blatant misconduct in flipping the pliable Baldwin, Fina's lawyers resorted to wrapping themselves up in the flag of righteousness in the Sandusky case. They did that by pointing out the jury verdict, the pretrial demonization of Sandusky by a hysterical media, and the actions of pliable judges in the case who kept giving the prosecutors nothing but green lights.
 
How many children is Shapiro claiming Spanier knew about in the case? I would like an exact number.

Exactly. Shapiro follows the false narrative and claims Spanier knew about "children". Really Josh? I'd love an exact number as well. And he's still claiming a cover up?? Can Spanier claim malicious prosecution since all conspiracy charges have been proven false yet Shapiro is still claiming they're true?
 
I was just thinking the same thing, I feel pretty bad for them today. Had they just fought the BS charges they’d be exactly where Spanier is today. I’m no expert, but I’d imagine there’s very little they can do at this point. I’d love to see them take some sort of action against the Commonwealth.

Difficult to sue the sovereign.
 
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