Rathskeller set to close
- Thread starter francofan
- Start date
They don't own the name "The All-American Rathskeller" but the term rathskeller is a generic one - just like tavern or pub. If they were to name it Neil's Rathskeller there's nothing the previous owners could do about it. It would be no different than calling it Neil's Tavern or Neil's Pub.
Other people who were bidding on the property were planning to tear the building down but I never saw anything that suggested that the Herlochers were. If anything they are the ones that's preserving the property.
They could have named it "Ro-skellar"....and I would have been able to drink for free.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
I think the property without the Skeller is meaningless to most people. Curious to see what takes its place.
I would not bet on it.They could have named it "Ro-skellar"....and I would have been able to drink for free.
Yea, the usual night was to walk from Pugh Street to the Lion's Den. Have a few there and then go to the Skeller for a few pitchers. Next was the My O My for more. Then the Phyrst for a few more pitchers. Finally the Futura to end the night and usually close the place. I didn't remember much of the details from my Futura visits!
What's in a name?
http://m.thetimes-tribune.com/news/...eakhouse-for-trademark-infringement-1.2195563
New York steakhouse sues Scranton steakhouse for trademark infringement
JIM LOCKWOOD, STAFF WRITER / PUBLISHED: MAY 21, 2017
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TIMES-SHAMROCK FILE Robert Dickert opened Carl von Luger Steak & Seafood Restaurant in 2011 in downtown Scranton.
A New York steakhouse is suing a Scranton steak restaurant, claiming trademark infringement.
The lawsuit, filed last week in federal court by plaintiff Peter Luger Inc. of Long Island against Carl von Luger Steak & Seafood Restaurant in Scranton and its owner, Robert Dickert, also raises claims of trademark dilution, false advertising and unfair competition.
Reached by phone Saturday, Dickert declined to comment.
Filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in the Southern District of New York, the lawsuit says the Peter Luger brand of steakhouse, with a principal, iconic place of business in Brooklyn, New York, and a second location in Great Neck, New York, was established in 1887, “and has become the gold standard for steakhouses in the United States.”
Dickert formerly worked for the Peter Luger firm in Long Island but has not been connected to it since 1986, the lawsuit says.
Dickert opened the Carl von Luger restaurant in 2011 at North Washington Avenue and Linden Street in Scranton.
The lawsuit claims Dickert also recently announced plans to open a Carl von Luger restaurant in North Palm Beach, Florida.
The defendants market and sell products via a website through “the infringing Carl von Luger brand,” the lawsuit claims.
The Peter Luger steakhouse owners, the Forman family, bought it from the Luger family more than 60 years ago, and both of the firm’s steakhouses are known as “Luger,” “Luger’s” or “Peter Luger,” according to the lawsuit.
The Peter Luger brand and trademarks, also used on promotional items and a company website, long predated the 2009 incorporation of Carl von Luger, the lawsuit states.
Despite beginning operations in 2011, Carl von Luger brands itself as “an age old family tradition” and prominently uses the phrase “since 1887” in marketing and promotional materials, “in a blatant attempt to trade on plaintiff’s famous marks and sterling reputation,” the lawsuit claims.
The defendants also try to mislead and confuse consumers by implying on the Carl von Luger website that the restaurant was named after Dickert’s father, and that his father was Carl Luger, a nephew of Peter Luger.
According to the lawsuit, the “about us” section of the defendant’s website says “Carl von Luger’s ‘Age Old Family Tradition’ stems from restaurateur and owner Robert Dickert’s connection to the Luger tradition, as he named the restaurant in his father Carl’s honor. Carl was Peter Luger’s (of Peter Luger’s Steak House fame) nephew and ran the steakhouse location in Long Island.”
However, the first instance of Carl refers to Carl Dickert, Robert’s father, but the second reference refers to Carl Luger, Peter Luger’s nephew, “who is not Robert Dickert’s father,” the lawsuit says.
The complaint seeks unspecified damages and fees, as well as a judgment prohibiting use of the Carl von Luger or Luger name, and cancellation of a Carl von Luger trademark obtained by Dickert.
Contact the writer:
jlockwood@timesshamrock.com;
570-348-9100 x5185;
@jlockwoodTT on Twitter
http://m.thetimes-tribune.com/news/...pping-name-following-trademark-suit-1.2231031
Carl von Luger dropping name following trademark suit
BY JON O'CONNELL, STAFF WRITER / PUBLISHED: AUGUST 17, 2017
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TIMES-TRIBUNE FILE Robert Dickert, owner of Carl Von Luger restaurant in downtown Scranton, is renaming his restaurant to Carl’s Prime after a trademark suit involving the Peter Luger franchise in New York City.
Robert Dickert is changing his brand, but not his identity.
The Scranton restaurateur will change the name of his popular Carl von Luger Steak and Seafood at Linden Street and North Washington Avenue to Carl’s Prime.
The change was the key term in settling a civil trademark infringement suit filed in federal court by the highly rated Peter Luger franchise in New York City.
Dickert traces his heritage to Peter Luger, who owned the original restaurant in Brooklyn in the late 1800s. Peter Luger was his grandmother’s uncle. The restaurant’s name drew from a combination of personal influences, including his father and great-uncle, who both were named Carl.
The blood connection didn’t fly with Peter Luger’s current ownership, the Forman family.
In May, the steakhouse sued Carl von Luger and Dickert claiming the name was “deliberately confusing” to customers who might think they were associated with the Peter Luger restaurants.
Dickert had defended use of the name saying it honored his heritage, but in a statement published on the restaurant website said, “To eliminate any possibility of confusion, we are changing our name to Carl’s Prime.”
The new name gives homage to Dickert’s father, Carl Dickert, and great-uncle Carl.
He plans to spiff up his menu with smaller portions, more specials and possibly a bar food menu.
“We‘re still there. We’re going to redo the menu, and we’re making it affordable for everybody,” he said in an interview Wednesday.
He had owned Great Uncle Peter’s Steakhouse in Newton Twp. and opened Carl von Luger’s in 2011, taking a chance on high-end dining in downtown Scranton when many didn’t see the viability.
“Seven years ago, if I told you that I was going to come down to Scranton and open a restaurant that sells a $50 steak, people would think, ‘You’re out of your mind,’” he said.
Peter Luger had sought to recoup financial damages in its suit, but those were dropped as part of the settlement, said Peter Luger attorney Michael Elkin.
“We are pleased that Robert Dickert has given up any rights to the Carl von Luger name, forfeited any federal trademark claims to the Luger name and will be required to rebrand his existing restaurant name in Pennsylvania,” he said.
The suit rose after Dickert embarked to build a second Carl von Luger restaurant as part of a village clubhouse in North Palm Beach, Florida.
In the wake of the suit, he lost the deal, but said he has received several calls from people wondering if he still wants to build in Flordia.
He may pursue one of those options, but wants to get his Scranton business in order first, he said.
Guests should see changes take shape later next month, he said. The settlement terms call for him to strip the Carl von Luger brand from his restaurant by Oct. 28.
Contact the writer: joconnell@timesshamrock.com; 570-348-9131; @jon_oc on Twitter
The Friedman (sp) Group is selling the Garner Street parking lot and the block bounded by Calder Alley, Garner, College, and Heister streets. The parking lot will get a 14 story apartment/retail building and the other area a building of undisclosed height and use. Immediate damage will be the closing of the Lions Den, Bar Bleu, a bank, Waffle Shop (downtown), Family Clothesline, Craft Brewery, Inferno, Deli, and Saloon (?). Collateral damage may include the likes of McLanahan's, Baby's, Primanti Brothers, Chipotle, and the Student Bookstore because of lack of parking.
http://m.thetimes-tribune.com/news/...pping-name-following-trademark-suit-1.2231031
Carl von Luger dropping name following trademark suit
BY JON O'CONNELL, STAFF WRITER / PUBLISHED: AUGUST 17, 2017
SHARE THIS
TIMES-TRIBUNE FILE Robert Dickert, owner of Carl Von Luger restaurant in downtown Scranton, is renaming his restaurant to Carl’s Prime after a trademark suit involving the Peter Luger franchise in New York City.
Robert Dickert is changing his brand, but not his identity.
The Scranton restaurateur will change the name of his popular Carl von Luger Steak and Seafood at Linden Street and North Washington Avenue to Carl’s Prime.
The change was the key term in settling a civil trademark infringement suit filed in federal court by the highly rated Peter Luger franchise in New York City.
Dickert traces his heritage to Peter Luger, who owned the original restaurant in Brooklyn in the late 1800s. Peter Luger was his grandmother’s uncle. The restaurant’s name drew from a combination of personal influences, including his father and great-uncle, who both were named Carl.
The blood connection didn’t fly with Peter Luger’s current ownership, the Forman family.
In May, the steakhouse sued Carl von Luger and Dickert claiming the name was “deliberately confusing” to customers who might think they were associated with the Peter Luger restaurants.
Dickert had defended use of the name saying it honored his heritage, but in a statement published on the restaurant website said, “To eliminate any possibility of confusion, we are changing our name to Carl’s Prime.”
The new name gives homage to Dickert’s father, Carl Dickert, and great-uncle Carl.
He plans to spiff up his menu with smaller portions, more specials and possibly a bar food menu.
“We‘re still there. We’re going to redo the menu, and we’re making it affordable for everybody,” he said in an interview Wednesday.
He had owned Great Uncle Peter’s Steakhouse in Newton Twp. and opened Carl von Luger’s in 2011, taking a chance on high-end dining in downtown Scranton when many didn’t see the viability.
“Seven years ago, if I told you that I was going to come down to Scranton and open a restaurant that sells a $50 steak, people would think, ‘You’re out of your mind,’” he said.
Peter Luger had sought to recoup financial damages in its suit, but those were dropped as part of the settlement, said Peter Luger attorney Michael Elkin.
“We are pleased that Robert Dickert has given up any rights to the Carl von Luger name, forfeited any federal trademark claims to the Luger name and will be required to rebrand his existing restaurant name in Pennsylvania,” he said.
The suit rose after Dickert embarked to build a second Carl von Luger restaurant as part of a village clubhouse in North Palm Beach, Florida.
In the wake of the suit, he lost the deal, but said he has received several calls from people wondering if he still wants to build in Flordia.
He may pursue one of those options, but wants to get his Scranton business in order first, he said.
Guests should see changes take shape later next month, he said. The settlement terms call for him to strip the Carl von Luger brand from his restaurant by Oct. 28.
Contact the writer: joconnell@timesshamrock.com; 570-348-9131; @jon_oc on Twitter
What's your point? The issue here was that restaurant in Scranton was using the Luger name. The only way the analogy would be the same would be if the Scranton restaurant was told that they couldn't call themselves a steakhouse. Steakhouse is a generic name, Rathskeller is a generic name. There are probably hundreds of Rathskellers around the country. Any town with a significant German population is going to have a bar that has Rathskeller in its name. The one in State College was called the All American Rathskeller. Clearly Herlocher won't be able to call it that, but he almost assuredly could use some variation of Rathskeller in the name.
Oh man Susie Wong egg rolls, I haven't thought about them in years. They were awesome.
Are they still around anywhere?
Really pretty depressing news. I used to not like it when places I frequented like the Crow Bar changed, but this is completely different.
My late grandparents had drinks together there while they were students and before they were married in the 30s. My parents had drinks there together while in school in the 70s. And then of course I did as well. It has a history spanning generations of families like mine and now it'll be just another building. Sucks.
My late grandparents had drinks together there while they were students and before they were married in the 30s. My parents had drinks there together while in school in the 70s. And then of course I did as well. It has a history spanning generations of families like mine and now it'll be just another building. Sucks.
Examples:
Rathskeller at the National Hotel in Frenchtown NJ
The Rathskeller in Tarentum PA
Der Rathskeller in Madison WI
The Rathskeller in Indianapolis
The Rathskeller in Binghampton NY
Rathskeller Pub in Huntington Beach CA
Der Rathskeller in Rockford IL
Dakota Inn Rathskeller in Detroit MI
The Rathskeller in Southbury CT
The Rathskeller at Jockey Hollow in Morristown NJ
Rathskeller Restaurant in Cochester VT
Rathskeller in Franklin NC
Rathskeller in Charleston RI
The Rathskeller in Fredricksburg VA
The Rathskeller in Cleveland OH
etc.
....the Phyrst/Ernie's Steaks/Local Whiskey used to have them as well.
UncleLar's Rathskeller in Take-a-xanex, GD
Just pointing out that there is precedence in cases such as this.
They are not anywhere near the same. I was trying to point out to you why they are entirely different circumstances. The issue with the steakhouses was over using the Luger name not over using the generic term "steakhouse". If the Skeller was called Gastiger's Rathskeller and Herlocher was trying to use the Gastiger name, then the circumstances would be the same - but that is clearly not the case.
In Germany it's spelled "Ratskeller." We in the US spell it Rathskeller. Probably to avoid the Rat part.
Commonly known as "mixed use" development. Pretty much every construction project of note in Austin lately follows this trend. Retail on the ground level, apartments up top. Except we usually don't get a lot of parking included unfortunately.
Local whiskey has them. But not the same as getting them from the shack outside the brewery
You're the guy who screws the waitress on her tip if the busboy spills a little of your water, right?
The proposal for the new structure on the Garner Street parking lot includes a garage with 275 spaces - which is probably about 3x more parking capacity than the current surface lot.
Wow, that was really out there. I'll take "unrelated emotional outbursts for $2000 Alex".
What I did with the skeller waitresses after hours is really none of your business.
Maybe that will be sufficient parking for the remaining establishments, but losing that block will be awful for the feel of downtown State College. The artist's rendering I saw was all steel and glass. Perhaps some of those businesses will take retail space in the new building, but many might not be able to afford the rent, which I'm sure will be much higher.
I don't disagree, and I'm skeptical that demolishing the buildings on the College-facing block would be a good thing for State College. It's occasions like this where you really wish that State College had a more robust system and historic review board where developers wanting to replace buildings like the ones on that block are required to jump through more hoops before bringing out the bulldozer.
That appears to be phase two of the plan, though, and there's still time for things to change on that front. But building on the surface lot and the old bank drive-thru behind that block is certainly a much more effective use of space than what's there now. The ideal solution, in my opinion, would be to abandon phase two of the plan and just build new on the surface lot and bank building.
The boro does have a Design & Historic Review Board (DHRB) in place. They are also discussing creating a new Historical and Architectural Review Board (HARB) that would focus solely on the Holmes Foster/Highlands and College Heights Historic Districts. Holmes Foster/Highlands does include West College & West Beaver Ave between Buckhout & H Alley and two small portions of East Beaver. Currently, properties within these designated districts are not necessarily safe from destruction. For example, the new Metropolitan building on the corner of College & Atherton tore down one or two buildings within the Holmes Foster/Highlands district. Recently the new owners of a 1920s Tudor Revival that is listed as a contributing building in the same district decided to paint the exterior trim as if it were a Queen Anne making it look like a birthday cake decorated by drunken grade schoolers.
Everytime I drive into State College, I cringe seeing the huge building going up where Kildare's had been. That was such a great place to eat and both my kids lived in apartments near there so it was a favorite of theirs. The new bulifding looks like a montrosity in comparison to the lower buildings it replaced. I'm sure when the other, older high rises were built along Beaver people didn't like the changes either, and I know real estate costs aren't cheap, but having all these new buildings like the Metripolotan, the one on E College at Kildare's, and the one planned on Garner are just changing the look of the town much too quickly.
The Skeller has always been one of those character tests.
If someone tells me they didn't love Seinfeld, thought The Godfather was "OK", or did not really like The Skeller, I am justifiably skeptical about their taste and character.
If someone tells me they didn't love Seinfeld, thought The Godfather was "OK", or did not really like The Skeller, I am justifiably skeptical about their taste and character.
You just described me. I thought Seinfeld was pretty good, but I didn't love it.
Wow, that must have been one hell of a bar .......to impress the guy that was unimpressed by the Grand Canyon.......
I preferred Pennsylvania Pizza in that spot. They had the coldest beer out of all of the bottle shops.
Who didn't love peeing into an old tub full of beer bottles while aiming at the fruit flies that multiplied by the minute? I had some of my most memorable times in SC there. I still never got my tooth fixed when I chipped it opening up those cases of RR ponies. That said, times change, people change, I just hope it's for the better.
Bars and restaurants tend to come and go, but in the case of the Rathskeller, it's almost historic, in that it is the oldest continuously operating bar in the state. And my guess is that some other owner willing to pay the lease rates will be able to keep it open. Of course they will have to come to an arrangement with the current owners for the name, and be able to get a liquor license.
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