ADVERTISEMENT

Pass defense problems...scheme or personnel?

royboy

royboy

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2001
48,407
35,881
1
Lewisville, NC
Or both?

Opposing stats in games vs PSU
Pitt 35-51 372 yards
Iowa 25-43 286 yards
Michigan 24-41 276 yards
Minny 18-20 331 yards

Schemes -- mainly zones? losing track of receivers? failure to cover the sidelines? too much cushion allowed? Linebackers not effective in pass coverage? Need more blitzing? A bend but don't break approach which isn't working? Fixable problems?

Personnel -- just don't have cover skills at cornerback? #5 particularly vulnerable? no ball hawks in the whole group?

Reasonable comments welcome.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shadow99 and TheGLOV
Very seldom (if ever) do we play bump and run / press coverage with safety help over the top. How often do our safeties make a play on the ball?

Scheme and personnel.....plus a lot of unawareness of down & distance.....plus a lot of “ball in flight” unawareness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown, katchthis, therod and 2 others
I don’t see a shutdown corner in the bunch. That’s not being critical. There aren’t many of those guys out there and teams like OSU, Bama, LSU, Clemson tend to get them on their rosters.
Tough to defend that quick RPO passing attack when you have to play zone or give a little space. Also safe to say the pass rush has come nowhere close to living up to its preseason billing against decent competition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nitt1300 and TheGLOV
Throw in Buffalo too, in most games they didn’t even throw for 100 yards and their season high was against PSU (246). I believe the only game the cracked 200 yards passing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Witt, psu2016 and Cosmos
-Attention to detail?
-Identification of the opponents offensive play and quick adjustment of responsibilities?
-Asking more than the personnel can accomplish?
-Pass rush discussed in detail already.
-Defensive adjustment to the opponents game plan and play call, in game, at halftime and mid second half?
-Or a confusing combination of these and other issues that stack and exacerbate the issue.
-Concern is that we see the similar issues seemingly weekly minus inferior competition.

A loss magnifies it but if an opponent not known for Heisman like performances is hitting 18 for 20 against the D, there is so issue they need to address in game.

Minnesota used the bye week to its most opportune and beneficial result. They hit is out of the park. They played very well as a team, almost like Iowa used to against Joe's teams post 2000.

Will this team rebound for Indiana? If not it could be another loss as we have had issues with Indiana in the past and Indiana is playing well as a team with a good passing offense this season.......
 
  • Like
Reactions: BarryPSU
royboy said:
Or both?

Opposing stats in games vs PSU
Pitt 35-51 372 yards
Iowa 25-43 286 yards
Michigan 24-41 276 yards
Minny 18-20 331 yards

Schemes -- mainly zones? losing track of receivers? failure to cover the sidelines? too much cushion allowed? Linebackers not effective in pass coverage? Need more blitzing? A bend but don't break approach which isn't working? Fixable problems?

Personnel -- just don't have cover skills at cornerback? #5 particularly vulnerable? no ball hawks in the whole group?

Reasonable comments welcome.
Click to expand...
Might want to think of getting more defensive backs on the field and force teams to beat you running? Will be up to the linebackers to shoulder load and that is a strength.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 81b&w
Problems the whole way around in the D backfield. No truly great player back there and truly poor coaching. Plus there appears to have been some rule changes that are baffling. Anyone with good receivers will pick our guys apart as they have consistently. OSU the last couple of years, MSU before this year and the teams listed above. this is a trend since CJF got here. I don't blame him but he needs to get a defensive wunderkind to totally restructure his D.
 
The Donovan Johnson injury certainly hurts. DJ was solid last season and was primed to get tons of PT this fall.
 
A very confused secondary comprised of slow-footed Smurfs coupled with a Defensive Line that is clearly incapable of getting pressure against equal or better quality opponents.

We’re collectively observing why Sean “Coach Chaos” Spencer and Brett “Clueless” Pry aren’t considered elite positional coaches/coordinators.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JoeBot409
Mister Magoo said:
We don’t have the coverage personnel necessary to blitz as much as we do. Rush 4. Press wr’s with cover 2!behind them. Man under concept
Click to expand...

actually the blitz is frequently picked up and does not produce much. the safety blitzes that come from outer space rarely get close.

i did think we had very elite speed in the DBs. we actually have some DBs in the NFL from recent psu teams that had hard time with passing teams. most of these guys had good combine times.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown
MacNit07 said:
Might want to think of getting more defensive backs on the field and force teams to beat you running? Will be up to the linebackers to shoulder load and that is a strength.
Click to expand...
strength is relative this isnt Paul P, Dan C, Sean L, T Shaw out there
 
Two things that stand out to me. TAYLOR late sliding over on the TD pass thenwhiffing on the WR.

Fields has really bad technique in regards to his hips and control. Been an issue all season.
 
A little of column A and a little of column B.

From the system/scheme side I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak man/zone cover 0 etc., but I think it's fair to say that it starts up front and when we're getting little to no pressure on the qb from rushing 4, and the blitzes aren't getting home either, it's going to be tough on the DB's.

From the personnel perspective I'm going to take some shots at our star players and say from the limited replays they show of the defense it looks like Micah is lost in pass coverage leaving the middle of the field open. Wade also bites hard on the play-action pass and is out of position quite often.
 
Mister Magoo said:
We don’t have the coverage personnel necessary to blitz as much as we do. Rush 4. Press wr’s with cover 2!behind them. Man under concept
Click to expand...
The blitzes have not been as effective as one would hope. Minny was well-prepared for PSU's tendencies and overall blitzing pattern. Unless PSU changes it up and or gets better pressure from the front 4, tOSU will exploit the D. Heck, IU might.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown
Our DB's are too small....and if you don't have size, you better damn well have toughness and fundamentals, which they don't have either. David Macklin had a long NFL career as a 5'9" defensive back b/c he had solid fundamentals and learned from Joe and his staff....size can cover up mistakes, and our DB's are small, soft and lack instinct. Reid can't cover without a PI, Wade is tiny and slow, TCF has no balance. There is not one reliable guy who u can ride with in a big moment...hard to win big games that way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psu00 and BBrown
I think it's coaching all the way. We have developed guys to go to the NFL back there, guys that are 4 star talents. I don't think it is a talent issue as much as it is a coaching issue, both Pry and Terry Smith are responsible. Pry sends ridiculous blitzes at awful times which does these guys no favors. Pry has about 3 different blitz types and any team worth it's salt has figured them out and throws to the vacated space. On Minny's first TD, when we send Lamont on a blitz, their QB did not hesitate to throw the ball to the vacated space, that's coaching, they knew Taylor would never rotate in time. TCF was clearly coached to think run first, pass second, and it hurt him all game. He would take a step to the line expecting run and watch receivers get behind him all day. Obviously our backfield was told all week this is a "run the ball, ball control offense." Minny decided to not play into our expectations and try to beat us "doing what they do" and actually adjusted. Unlike say a wisconsin, that just runs the ball regardless of what your defense is good at(pry is great in those situations).

Secondly, I really don't understand the technique we train our CB's with. They are constantly "chasing the receivers" with their heads turned away from the ball resulting in two things all the time; 1. We get a lot of terrible PI calls a game, which are deserving, because our CB's are clearly not playing the ball but rather the man. They are oftentimes scattered to get back to the receiver and they make contact before the ball gets there. 2. The receivers win a ton of jump balls and contested catches on us, largely because they know where the ball is and they can time their effort to catch it. Our CB's never get their heads around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doc-M, Cosmos, Woodpecker and 4 others
I don't pretend to know anything about football, but I've been disappointed by the pass interference penalties by Reid, a senior. You certainly don't expect a senior to commit the penalty he did against Minnesota (back turned, ran over the receiver).
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown and BFPSU
It's all due to the blitz-heavy scheme Pry likes. If you blitz and get penetration, it's fine. When you don't, your DBs have to all be studs to make up for it. We saw what happened once Pry gave up on trying to blitz all the time. Minny's offense was generally held in check
 
royboy said:
Or both?

Opposing stats in games vs PSU
Pitt 35-51 372 yards
Iowa 25-43 286 yards
Michigan 24-41 276 yards
Minny 18-20 331 yards

Schemes -- mainly zones? losing track of receivers? failure to cover the sidelines? too much cushion allowed? Linebackers not effective in pass coverage? Need more blitzing? A bend but don't break approach which isn't working? Fixable problems?

Personnel -- just don't have cover skills at cornerback? #5 particularly vulnerable? no ball hawks in the whole group?

Reasonable comments welcome.
Click to expand...
I think it's Pry's agressive style. PSU often puts 2 LBs and/or a safety right up on the LOS to pressure the QB and stop the run. PSU seems to struggle when opponents run plays were the QB can release the ball quickly. A lot of passes are completed over the middle to areas vacated by the LBs. The key play in Minnesota's opening 95 yard TD was where PSU brought a safety to the LOS to blitz and a long pass was completeed to an area he would have been defending.

It seems to me that Franklin emphasizes big plays more than he emphasizes steady conservative play. That's on both sides of the ball. It's great when it works.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cosmos, Nittany_93 and BBrown
ram2020 said:
I think it's coaching all the way. We have developed guys to go to the NFL back there, guys that are 4 star talents. I don't think it is a talent issue as much as it is a coaching issue, both Pry and Terry Smith are responsible. Pry sends ridiculous blitzes at awful times which does these guys no favors. Pry has about 3 different blitz types and any team worth it's salt has figured them out and throws to the vacated space. On Minny's first TD, when we send Lamont on a blitz, their QB did not hesitate to throw the ball to the vacated space, that's coaching, they knew Taylor would never rotate in time. TCF was clearly coached to think run first, pass second, and it hurt him all game. He would take a step to the line expecting run and watch receivers get behind him all day. Obviously our backfield was told all week this is a "run the ball, ball control offense." Minny decided to not play into our expectations and try to beat us "doing what they do" and actually adjusted. Unlike say a wisconsin, that just runs the ball regardless of what your defense is good at(pry is great in those situations).

Secondly, I really don't understand the technique we train our CB's with. They are constantly "chasing the receivers" with their heads turned away from the ball resulting in two things all the time; 1. We get a lot of terrible PI calls a game, which are deserving, because our CB's are clearly not playing the ball but rather the man. They are oftentimes scattered to get back to the receiver and they make contact before the ball gets there. 2. The receivers win a ton of jump balls and contested catches on us, largely because they know where the ball is and they can time their effort to catch it. Our CB's never get their heads around.
Click to expand...
AMEN!
 
interrobang said:
It's all due to the blitz-heavy scheme Pry likes. If you blitz and get penetration, it's fine. When you don't, your DBs have to all be studs to make up for it. We saw what happened once Pry gave up on trying to blitz all the time. Minny's offense was generally held in check
Click to expand...
Which brings up something else; the purpose of the blitz is a sack or a QB hurry...the success rate seems to be shockingly low.

To use a double negative, which should fit in well on the BWI board ;), it isn't like Pry hasn't had a great deal of overall success, but should the DB's play tighter coverage on blitzing plays since a quick-release is expected?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ILLINOISLION
SCHEME....we have DB's all over the NFL and both Reid and TCF will be there as well. However, year after year after year we allow the career game for some of these QB's.....Ive never seen a defense that no matter who is in the game, not be able to cover a 10 yard slant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown
royboy said:
Or both?

Opposing stats in games vs PSU
Pitt 35-51 372 yards
Iowa 25-43 286 yards
Michigan 24-41 276 yards
Minny 18-20 331 yards

Schemes -- mainly zones? losing track of receivers? failure to cover the sidelines? too much cushion allowed? Linebackers not effective in pass coverage? Need more blitzing? A bend but don't break approach which isn't working? Fixable problems?

Personnel -- just don't have cover skills at cornerback? #5 particularly vulnerable? no ball hawks in the whole group?

Reasonable comments welcome.
Click to expand...
I think there is confusion among the DB's which results in blown coverages. Receivers are soooo wide open at times that I don't know how it could be anything else. I also think there is a lack of ability to cover man-to-man. Those two things equate to the secondary being a glaring weakness on our D. When we face a decent O-line that slows down our pass rush, the DB's get exposed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown and royboy
When you blitz or bring heavy pressure, you are basically saying 'beat us QB'. Tanner Morgan beat us like a drum. He was outstanding and PSU struggles when the other QB is accurate. Pry wants to rattle or confuse to create TOs. We got none of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown
Shadow99 said:
Which brings up something else; the purpose of the blitz is a sack or a QB hurry...the success rate seems to be shockingly low.
Click to expand...

Seems like a combination of things. Shelton missing didn't help. Matos has disappeared. Simmons has never developed. Opponents have seen what we do and run plays where QBs get rid of the ball quickly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psu00 and BBrown
ram2020 said:
I think it's coaching all the way. We have developed guys to go to the NFL back there, guys that are 4 star talents. I don't think it is a talent issue as much as it is a coaching issue, both Pry and Terry Smith are responsible. Pry sends ridiculous blitzes at awful times which does these guys no favors. Pry has about 3 different blitz types and any team worth it's salt has figured them out and throws to the vacated space. On Minny's first TD, when we send Lamont on a blitz, their QB did not hesitate to throw the ball to the vacated space, that's coaching, they knew Taylor would never rotate in time. TCF was clearly coached to think run first, pass second, and it hurt him all game. He would take a step to the line expecting run and watch receivers get behind him all day. Obviously our backfield was told all week this is a "run the ball, ball control offense." Minny decided to not play into our expectations and try to beat us "doing what they do" and actually adjusted. Unlike say a wisconsin, that just runs the ball regardless of what your defense is good at(pry is great in those situations).

Secondly, I really don't understand the technique we train our CB's with. They are constantly "chasing the receivers" with their heads turned away from the ball resulting in two things all the time; 1. We get a lot of terrible PI calls a game, which are deserving, because our CB's are clearly not playing the ball but rather the man. They are oftentimes scattered to get back to the receiver and they make contact before the ball gets there. 2. The receivers win a ton of jump balls and contested catches on us, largely because they know where the ball is and they can time their effort to catch it. Our CB's never get their heads around.
Click to expand...
Definitely agree with the last sentence. I notice in other games the DB turns for the ball when he sees the receiver starting to react. Our guys just keep running. It’s also why we only get interceptions when the pass is totally off target
 
Carl Spackler said:
-Attention to detail?
-Identification of the opponents offensive play and quick adjustment of responsibilities?
-Asking more than the personnel can accomplish?
-Pass rush discussed in detail already.
-Defensive adjustment to the opponents game plan and play call, in game, at halftime and mid second half?
-Or a confusing combination of these and other issues that stack and exacerbate the issue.
-Concern is that we see the similar issues seemingly weekly minus inferior competition.

A loss magnifies it but if an opponent not known for Heisman like performances is hitting 18 for 20 against the D, there is so issue they need to address in game.

Minnesota used the bye week to its most opportune and beneficial result. They hit is out of the park. They played very well as a team, almost like Iowa used to against Joe's teams post 2000.

Will this team rebound for Indiana? If not it could be another loss as we have had issues with Indiana in the past and Indiana is playing well as a team with a good passing offense this season.......
Click to expand...
Isn’t their starter at qb out?
 
ram2020 said:
I think it's coaching all the way. We have developed guys to go to the NFL back there, guys that are 4 star talents. I don't think it is a talent issue as much as it is a coaching issue, both Pry and Terry Smith are responsible. Pry sends ridiculous blitzes at awful times which does these guys no favors. Pry has about 3 different blitz types and any team worth it's salt has figured them out and throws to the vacated space. On Minny's first TD, when we send Lamont on a blitz, their QB did not hesitate to throw the ball to the vacated space, that's coaching, they knew Taylor would never rotate in time. TCF was clearly coached to think run first, pass second, and it hurt him all game. He would take a step to the line expecting run and watch receivers get behind him all day. Obviously our backfield was told all week this is a "run the ball, ball control offense." Minny decided to not play into our expectations and try to beat us "doing what they do" and actually adjusted. Unlike say a wisconsin, that just runs the ball regardless of what your defense is good at(pry is great in those situations).

Secondly, I really don't understand the technique we train our CB's with. They are constantly "chasing the receivers" with their heads turned away from the ball resulting in two things all the time; 1. We get a lot of terrible PI calls a game, which are deserving, because our CB's are clearly not playing the ball but rather the man. They are oftentimes scattered to get back to the receiver and they make contact before the ball gets there. 2. The receivers win a ton of jump balls and contested catches on us, largely because they know where the ball is and they can time their effort to catch it. Our CB's never get their heads around.
Click to expand...
Observations about the DBs are spot on. To me that is a coaching deficiency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: psu00 and BBrown
ram2020 said:
I think it's coaching all the way. We have developed guys to go to the NFL back there, guys that are 4 star talents. I don't think it is a talent issue as much as it is a coaching issue, both Pry and Terry Smith are responsible. Pry sends ridiculous blitzes at awful times which does these guys no favors. Pry has about 3 different blitz types and any team worth it's salt has figured them out and throws to the vacated space. On Minny's first TD, when we send Lamont on a blitz, their QB did not hesitate to throw the ball to the vacated space, that's coaching, they knew Taylor would never rotate in time. TCF was clearly coached to think run first, pass second, and it hurt him all game. He would take a step to the line expecting run and watch receivers get behind him all day. Obviously our backfield was told all week this is a "run the ball, ball control offense." Minny decided to not play into our expectations and try to beat us "doing what they do" and actually adjusted. Unlike say a wisconsin, that just runs the ball regardless of what your defense is good at(pry is great in those situations).

Secondly, I really don't understand the technique we train our CB's with. They are constantly "chasing the receivers" with their heads turned away from the ball resulting in two things all the time; 1. We get a lot of terrible PI calls a game, which are deserving, because our CB's are clearly not playing the ball but rather the man. They are oftentimes scattered to get back to the receiver and they make contact before the ball gets there. 2. The receivers win a ton of jump balls and contested catches on us, largely because they know where the ball is and they can time their effort to catch it. Our CB's never get their heads around.
Click to expand...

Have to think it’s scheme/preparedness. Adrian Amos was a lower rated recruit than any of our current starters and he’s having a much better than expected NFL career. You don’t swing and miss on that many top prospects. The corner blitz with Wade was awful and took forever to develop.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown
Our DBs are not the strength of the defense, and the defense is designed for max pressure on the QB, so that the DBs have a lot of pressure on them- it's not a great situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BBrown
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J

KNOW THE ENEMY: Penn St

Replies
15
Views
3K
Penn State Football
bourbon n blues
B
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back