#PArocks Disney duals finals

[matter7172]

Happy Fathers' Day!

Could you imagine a college basketball coach recruiting six 6' PGs and having that team's basketball board saying "don't worry, they are only high school kids, some of them will grow"?

 

[Azchief32]

Happy Fathers' Day!

Could you imagine a college basketball coach recruiting six 6' PGs and having that team's basketball board saying "don't worry, they are only high school kids, some of them will grow"?

About the same as one with seven power forwards for four slots. We need to pick up depth and a starter at 174-197...otherwise we are doing just fine. I think the starter is on the way for 184. Really though, what's it Matter to you?

 

[21Guns]

Originally, to be honest, I was angry and sore over losing both Spencer and Gavin...but, grudgingly, admitted I was indeed wrong and they will be at different weights at Iowa.

But really, after more thought about the situation in general, it dawned on me how many wrestlers, sort of go at different weights, for the good of their teams: It happens under Cael, but Brands asks that sometimes also, as well as Smith, and Gable occasionally asked it also. Look no further than Morgan McIntosh, who, really, went at 197 for the team, or Jordan Conaway, who went up to 133, or JImmy Gulibon(I know, arguable) who moved up to 141.

At second thought, I don't think it's a problem, really for anyone, Iowa OR Penn State.

These coaches and these kids find a way, and it shakes itself out.

 

[Mpchillin]

Originally, to be honest, I was angry and sore over losing both Spencer and Gavin...but, grudgingly, admitted I was indeed wrong and they will be at different weights at Iowa.

But really, after more thought about the situation in general, it dawned on me how many wrestlers, sort of go at different weights, for the good of their teams: It happens under Cael, but Brands asks that sometimes also, as well as Smith, and Gable occasionally asked it also. Look no further than Morgan McIntosh, who, really, went at 197 for the team, or Jordan Conaway, who went up to 133, or JImmy Gulibon(I know, arguable) who moved up to 141.

At second thought, I don't think it's a problem, really for anyone, Iowa OR Penn State.

These coaches and these kids find a way, and it shakes itself out.

Great post Guns, I feel the same and it's a great "problem" for any team. It just speaks to the strengths of each team and their coaching success at these weight intervals.

 

[21Guns]

Great post Guns, I feel the same and it's a great "problem" for any team. It just speaks to the strengths of each team and their coaching success at these weight intervals.

Yeah, and it also speaks to the quality of the kids, these kids are not only great wrestlers, they are great kids.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Things will get interesting in a few weeks when formal scholarship offers can be made. After picking up Lee and Teasdale, I suspect Meja and Renteria's official offers may be less then anticipated. Will it change their commitment status, maybe, maybe not.

 

[Azchief32]

Things will get interesting in a few weeks when formal scholarship offers can be made. After picking up Lee and Teasdale, I suspect Meja and Renteria's official offers may be less then anticipated. Will it change their commitment status, maybe, maybe not.

FIFY...Teasdale cannot receive a formal offer this year so one doesn't know. As with any kid, the situation is fluid. For example, Daniel Dennis was a relative "nobody" in terms of a recruit. He became a full time starter, much to the surprise of the staff. Does a now full time, AA potential guy only still get books? Funny that nobody brings up where the money for all of your elite recruits come from. I do believe coaches have the room to negotiate based on benchmarks. For example, are you a starter, AA or NCAA champ? Well this year you get "X" amount. Also factor in student aid. Does this kid come from an economically poor background? Stellar academics?

While we only get 9.9, I do believe it's very rare for a wrestling coach to be able to walk into a living room and offer even a stud like Spencer Lee a full scholly. My theory on the PSU glut of talent is that some parents don't care and just want their kid to have the best experience and are willing to fork over a good portion of money to make it happen.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

If Brands wants to make sure he has enough for Teasdale, it certainly could affect Meja and Renteria this year. I don't know why you guys get so sensitive when this subject is brought up. Iowa has commitments from 5 top 100 guys (4 in top 30), very close in age, four of which wrestled at 120 this past season and one at 113. That is highly unusual and discussion worthy. Sure they should spread out some but I think it's inevitable that some of them overlap and may end up stuck behind one another. I just find it hard to believe that Brands is going to tie up that much money in the first few weight classes. That's why I think someone may be disappointed when formal offers are tendered.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Things will get interesting in a few weeks when formal scholarship offers can be made. After picking up Lee and Teasdale, I suspect Meja and Renteria's official offers may be less then anticipated. Will it change their commitment status, maybe, maybe not.

I believe it's Meijas dad that posts over at HR and the vibe he's laying down is that his son is all in on Iowa. We will see...

 

[dunkej01]

FIFY...Teasdale cannot receive a formal offer this year so one doesn't know. As with any kid, the situation is fluid. For example, Daniel Dennis was a relative "nobody" in terms of a recruit. He became a full time starter, much to the surprise of the staff. Does a now full time, AA potential guy only still get books? Funny that nobody brings up where the money for all of your elite recruits come from. I do believe coaches have the room to negotiate based on benchmarks. For example, are you a starter, AA or NCAA champ? Well this year you get "X" amount. Also factor in student aid. Does this kid come from an economically poor background? Stellar academics?

While we only get 9.9, I do believe it's very rare for a wrestling coach to be able to walk into a living room and offer even a stud like Spencer Lee a full scholly. My theory on the PSU glut of talent is that some parents don't care and just want their kid to have the best experience and are willing to fork over a good portion of money to make it happen.

We hear about how does our staff make it work all the time. NLWC slush fund and other stuff comes up bi weekly in the offsea$on and regularly during it the past 3 years.

Some of the comments look like copy and paste.

You guys should be happy you landed them just for the sanity of your board and forget the white noise.

Ps- I know a guy named spyker that can push a gofund me site if your HWC slush funds run low.

 

[Azchief32]

If Brands wants to make sure he has enough for Teasdale, it certainly could affect Meja and Renteria this year. I don't know why you guys get so sensitive when this subject is brought up. Iowa has commitments from 5 top 100 guys (4 in top 30), very close in age, four of which wrestled at 120 this past season and one at 113. That is highly unusual and discussion worthy. Sure they should spread out some but I think it's inevitable that some of them overlap and may end up stuck behind one another. I just find it hard to believe that Brands is going to tie up that much money in the first few weight classes. That's why I think someone may be disappointed when formal offers are tendered.

First Rule of Wrestling Scholarship allocations: We don't know dick about how scholarships are allocated. You don't. I don't. We also don't know the financial need of these individuals. I don't know why a fan of a team that has: Geno Morelli, Mark Hall, Bo Nickel, Mason Manville, Vincenzo Joseph among other vying for two or three spots is worried about Iowa's scholly distribution. Meanwhile, you have AJ coming in along with Stout and Cassar vying for one weight for the next 3-4 years. Oh yea, you all need to fit Shakur in somewhere. Maybe the ones that don't make it head to Rutgers.

If I'm Renteria, Lee, Mejia, or Teasdale, I don't really care who's coming to Iowa cause I think eventually, I'll be able to beat them. Does one duck tournaments because so and so is going to be there? We have six to seven really good kids for the first four weights. Last year, we had no real alternative for 125 or 133 if Gilman or Clark went down. BTW, JRent also bleeds black and gold. He will be wrestling at 132 this year.

 

[Azchief32]

We hear about how does our staff make it work all the time. NLWC slush fund and other stuff comes up bi weekly in the offsea$on and regularly during it the past 3 years.

Some of the comments look like copy and paste.

You guys should be happy you landed them just for the sanity of your board and forget the white noise.

Ps- I know a guy named spyker that can push a gofund me site if your HWC slush funds run low.

Tom and Terry have been spending the HWC slush funds on cool ass chainsaws and vacation trips to sunny Siberia to relax because they thought the guys they had could do it. Now they know better and the fund is now open for business...not to be confused with other endeavors such as Real Estate and the selling of, ahem, "relaxation therapy" modalities.

 

[21Guns]

First Rule of Wrestling Scholarship allocations: We don't know dick about how scholarships are allocated. You don't. I don't. We also don't know the financial need of these individuals. I don't know why a fan of a team that has: Geno Morelli, Mark Hall, Bo Nickel, Mason Manville, Vincenzo Joseph among other vying for two or three spots is worried about Iowa's scholly distribution. Meanwhile, you have AJ coming in along with Stout and Cassar vying for one weight for the next 3-4 years. Oh yea, you all need to fit Shakur in somewhere. Maybe the ones that don't make it head to Rutgers.

If I'm Renteria, Lee, Mejia, or Teasdale, I don't really care who's coming to Iowa cause I think eventually, I'll be able to beat them. Does one duck tournaments because so and so is going to be there? We have six to seven really good kids for the first four weights. Last year, we had no real alternative for 125 or 133 if Gilman or Clark went down. BTW, JRent also bleeds black and gold. He will be wrestling at 132 this year.

What always interested me was the ".9".

How, exactly, do you distribute the ".9"? You get 90% off everything then? If one program offers you the full and the other the .9, is that a deal breaker?

 

[Azchief32]

What always interested me was the ".9".

How, exactly, do you distribute the ".9"? You get 90% off everything then? If one program offers you the full and the other the .9, is that a deal breaker?

Well it was to satisfy Title IX...some women just don't like tens in any form. Or the .9 could be free hookers and pizza two or three times a semester.

 

[21Guns]

Well it was to satisfy Title IX...some women just don't like tens in any form. Or the .9 could be free hookers and pizza two or three times a semester.

Or, free tanning beds in Columbus.

 

[dunkej01]

Well it was to satisfy Title IX...some women just don't like tens in any form. Or the .9 could be free hookers and pizza two or three times a semester.

Hookers and pizza. Things that don't sound good together but you shouldn't judge those that know they do.

 

[El-Jefe]

Whoever had 54 in the "from Disney to hookers" pool wins!

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

If I'm Renteria, Lee, Mejia, or Teasdale, I don't really care who's coming to Iowa cause I think eventually, I'll be able to beat them. Does one duck tournaments because so and so is going to be there? We have six to seven really good kids for the first four weights. Last year, we had no real alternative for 125 or 133 if Gilman or Clark went down. BTW, JRent also bleeds black and gold. He will be wrestling at 132 this year.

This. World class recruits are world class HS wrestlers because they seek out competition and run from no one. I'm sure all four of these young men believe they are the best until its proven otherwise.

This will sort itself out in the IA room. And if someone isn't happy with their situation at some point, they may move on to somewhere else. Same as what happens here at PSU.

Really not a big deal at this point.

 

[tikk10]

Rotisserie/fantasy sports ruined changed everything. Fans now expect access to the sort of data that allows them to play armchair manager at the day-to-day level. Wrestling, because the athletes have slim hopes of striking it rich, is mostly exempt from those expectations but not entirely; you can see it in certain forums, where some (I'm guessing younger) posters view the athletes as movable pieces more so than humans.

I would have stopped caring about the NFL years ago if it wasn't for my now-thirty year roto league (we long ago agreed that death is the only permissible excuse for leaving the league and despite waning interest no one has it in them to challenge this rule), so I wonder how much wrestling's future is tied to fantasy/roto. Some guys like SetonHallPirate and andegre are already collecting the sort of statistics that would be the bread and butter for that next step. Probably more an issue of when then if.

And I could see it starting with the 9.9 scholarship allocation, where that'd be the basis for the roto player's team, with each wrestler being assigned a scholarship value (maybe fixed, maybe it fluctuates over the season, maybe you allow for 'walk-ons') and you've got to fit your team within that structure, like a salary cap. The starting figures would obviously be fictional since scholarship allocations are (for good reason) private.

Of course, there's a cost to growing a sport through roto/fantasy. Tom Brady isn't losing sleep when idiots scream at him on Twitter for throwing three picks and ruining their week. But the wrestling community is pretty small and the sort of viciousness you see in some forums can reverberate in personal ways. It's kinda already the case and that's without the roto/fantasy component. And obviously these kids aren't getting paid like pro athletes, either now or, with rare exceptions, at the next phase, so there's the additional ethical concern of someone making money off the kids' backs (presuming it's a for-profit thing) that they'll never see.

 

[RoarLions1]

What always interested me was the ".9".

How, exactly, do you distribute the ".9"? You get 90% off everything then? If one program offers you the full and the other the .9, is that a deal breaker?

Well it was to satisfy Title IX...some women just don't like tens in any form. Or the .9 could be free hookers and pizza two or three times a semester.

The 9.9 interested me too, so over the years learned this;

- Wrestling, like most NCAA men's sports (other than football and basketball), is an EQUIVALENCY sport, vs HEADCOUNT sports.
- Very few wrestling student-athletes get a full ride, with most scholarships in the tenths of a scholarship, or quarters of a scholarship.
- Not all programs are fully funded (PSU is).
- Don't know the year (but think it was 1992), the same year football started it's descent from 95 to 85 scholarships, ALMOST ALL NCAA MEN'S SPORTS took a 10% hit in scholarships, for example;

Baseball was 13, reduced 10% to 11.7
Men's Cross country/T&F was 14, reduced 10% to 12.6
Men's Fencing was 5, reduced 10% to 4.5
Men's Golf was 5, reduced 10% to 4.5
Men's Gymnastics was 7, reduced 10% to 6.3
Men's Soccer was 11, reduced 10% to 9.9
Men's Tennis was 5, reduced 10% to 4.5
Men's Wrestling was 11, reduced 10% to 9.9

That's how we ended up with a odd number like 9.9...it was really a big-picture move by the NCAA, that cut across many, many sports.

 

[Azchief32]

The 9.9 interested me too, so over the years learned this;

- Wrestling, like most NCAA men's sports (other than football and basketball), is an EQUIVALENCY sport, vs HEADCOUNT sports.
- Very few wrestling student-athletes get a full ride, with most scholarships in the tenths of a scholarship, or quarters of a scholarship.
- Not all programs are fully funded (PSU is).
- Don't know the year (but think it was 1992), the same year football started it's descent from 95 to 85 scholarships, ALMOST ALL NCAA MEN'S SPORTS took a 10% hit in scholarships, for example;

Baseball was 13, reduced 10% to 11.7
Men's Cross country/T&F was 14, reduced 10% to 12.6
Men's Fencing was 5, reduced 10% to 4.5
Men's Golf was 5, reduced 10% to 4.5
Men's Gymnastics was 7, reduced 10% to 6.3
Men's Soccer was 11, reduced 10% to 9.9
Men's Tennis was 5, reduced 10% to 4.5
Men's Wrestling was 11, reduced 10% to 9.9

That's how we ended up with a odd number like 9.9...it was really a big-picture move by the NCAA, that cut across many, many sports.

Like the hooker theory better.

 

[RoarLions1]

Like the hooker theory better.

Thought you might!! Others too, I'm sure, lol...

 

[jtothemfp]

First Rule of Wrestling Scholarship allocations: We don't know dick about how scholarships are allocated. You don't. I don't. We also don't know the financial need of these individuals. I don't know why a fan of a team that has: Geno Morelli, Mark Hall, Bo Nickel, Mason Manville, Vincenzo Joseph among other vying for two or three spots is worried about Iowa's scholly distribution. Meanwhile, you have AJ coming in along with Stout and Cassar vying for one weight for the next 3-4 years. Oh yea, you all need to fit Shakur in somewhere. Maybe the ones that don't make it head to Rutgers.

If I'm Renteria, Lee, Mejia, or Teasdale, I don't really care who's coming to Iowa cause I think eventually, I'll be able to beat them. Does one duck tournaments because so and so is going to be there? We have six to seven really good kids for the first four weights. Last year, we had no real alternative for 125 or 133 if Gilman or Clark went down. BTW, JRent also bleeds black and gold. He will be wrestling at 132 this year.

I don't really dig the comparison of tournament attendance decisions to college attendance decisions, for a bunch of reasons. The considerations involved in deciding to attend a tourney to face a stud bring with it the possible con of 'I might lose.' Like, that tournament. You're still the starter on your own team and losing that tourney doesn't mean you've lost the opportunity to compete for your team, in front of bunches of fans. Considerations involved in deciding to attend a college to face a stud bring with it the possible cons of 'I might not ever get a chance to start' or 'I might lose a chance to compete for my team in front of fans for 4 years and only get 3. Or 2 or 1.

I understand the conventional wisdom that elite wrestler always believe they're the very best, even though the math says how rare that is. And I do think we see a fair bit of that in real life when it comes to an elite wrestler from one team facing an elite wrestler from another. But that's between cats who already own that weight on their own team and are looking outward at competition. But when it comes to the stakes being the opportunity to compete, I hope those same wrestlers give that machismo a bit of a rest and allow other considerations in.

Like: 'you know, I think I can beat Spencer Lee, but I think I'd like to do it in a Dual Meet or at the NCAA Tournament where, if I do lose (gasp, realism!), I won't lose a chance to have my parents see me compete for my school team a bunch of times a year.

Unless, of course, you're totally fine with building in a possible school transfer as a contingency plan...

 

[jschrantz]

I don't really dig the comparison of tournament attendance decisions to college attendance decisions, for a bunch of reasons. The considerations involved in deciding to attend a tourney to face a stud bring with it the possible con of 'I might lose.' Like, that tournament. You're still the starter on your own team and losing that tourney doesn't mean you've lost the opportunity to compete for your team, in front of bunches of fans. Considerations involved in deciding to attend a college to face a stud bring with it the possible cons of 'I might not ever get a chance to start' or 'I might lose a chance to compete for my team in front of fans for 4 years and only get 3. Or 2 or 1.

I understand the conventional wisdom that elite wrestler always believe they're the very best, even though the math says how rare that is. And I do think we see a fair bit of that in real life when it comes to an elite wrestler from one team facing an elite wrestler from another. But that's between cats who already own that weight on their own team and are looking outward at competition. But when it comes to the stakes being the opportunity to compete, I hope those same wrestlers give that machismo a bit of a rest and allow other considerations in.

Like: 'you know, I think I can beat Spencer Lee, but I think I'd like to do it in a Dual Meet or at the NCAA Tournament where, if I do lose (gasp, realism!), I won't lose a chance to have my parents see me compete for my school team a bunch of times a year.

Unless, of course, you're totally fine with building in a possible school transfer as a contingency plan...

Yea, not many kids are willing to risk essentially losing their entire college career sitting behind a starter, it takes a special kid that is more than likely really comfortable with the academics at that school. It's a HUGE risk and sacrifice potentially as you stated much better than myself.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Flying_Tiger said: ↑
If Brands wants to make sure he has enough for Teasdale, it certainly could affect Meja and Renteria this year. I don't know why you guys get so sensitive when this subject is brought up. Iowa has commitments from 5 top 100 guys (4 in top 30), very close in age, four of which wrestled at 120 this past season and one at 113. That is highly unusual and discussion worthy. Sure they should spread out some but I think it's inevitable that some of them overlap and may end up stuck behind one another. I just find it hard to believe that Brands is going to tie up that much money in the first few weight classes. That's why I think someone may be disappointed when formal offers are tendered.

First Rule of Wrestling Scholarship allocations: We don't know dick about how scholarships are allocated. You don't. I don't. We also don't know the financial need of these individuals. I don't know why a fan of a team that has: Geno Morelli, Mark Hall, Bo Nickel, Mason Manville, Vincenzo Joseph among other vying for two or three spots is worried about Iowa's scholly distribution. Meanwhile, you have AJ coming in along with Stout and Cassar vying for one weight for the next 3-4 years. Oh yea, you all need to fit Shakur in somewhere. Maybe the ones that don't make it head to Rutgers.

If I'm Renteria, Lee, Mejia, or Teasdale, I don't really care who's coming to Iowa cause I think eventually, I'll be able to beat them. Does one duck tournaments because so and so is going to be there? We have six to seven really good kids for the first four weights. Last year, we had no real alternative for 125 or 133 if Gilman or Clark went down. BTW, JRent also bleeds black and gold. He will be wrestling at 132 this year.

Bump

 

[dunkej01]

FT....this must be like christmas morning.

How could a man sooooo wrong be so right?

Once again.....the boards remember

 

[jtothemfp]

Flying_Tiger said: ↑
If Brands wants to make sure he has enough for Teasdale, it certainly could affect Meja and Renteria this year. I don't know why you guys get so sensitive when this subject is brought up. Iowa has commitments from 5 top 100 guys (4 in top 30), very close in age, four of which wrestled at 120 this past season and one at 113. That is highly unusual and discussion worthy. Sure they should spread out some but I think it's inevitable that some of them overlap and may end up stuck behind one another. I just find it hard to believe that Brands is going to tie up that much money in the first few weight classes. That's why I think someone may be disappointed when formal offers are tendered.



Bump

Haha, PERFECT use of the bump! "Highly unusual and discussion worthy" lol

 

[Azchief32]

Flying_Tiger said: ↑
If Brands wants to make sure he has enough for Teasdale, it certainly could affect Meja and Renteria this year. I don't know why you guys get so sensitive when this subject is brought up. Iowa has commitments from 5 top 100 guys (4 in top 30), very close in age, four of which wrestled at 120 this past season and one at 113. That is highly unusual and discussion worthy. Sure they should spread out some but I think it's inevitable that some of them overlap and may end up stuck behind one another. I just find it hard to believe that Brands is going to tie up that much money in the first few weight classes. That's why I think someone may be disappointed when formal offers are tendered.



Bump

What did you want Hawk fans to say, these guys better find a new home ASAP? BTW, one of them had nothing to do with money or spots. Ask yourself, why couldn't a kid come to Iowa or Penn State?

At least you guys don't have to obsess over our littles now

Damnit FT, I am now kicking myself for taking the non face mush high road when it came to how wrong you were about Spencer.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

I don't recall making any definitive statements about where Lee would end up. Quote or it didn't happen.

 

[johnstownsteel]

BTW, one of them had nothing to do with money or spots. Ask yourself, why couldn't a kid come to Iowa or Penn State?

.

I don't know....grades perhaps?

 

[El-Jefe]

I don't recall making any definitive statements about where Lee would end up. Quote or it didn't happen.

That's Jammen's line.