I think you are correct.
Also what are they doing with all the money they saved from salaries, heath ins and pensions since they pretty much reduced the occupied toll booths to maybe 1 per exchange?
PA Turnpike $11 billion in debt
- Thread starter PennStateNate
- Start date
I think you are correct.
Also what are they doing with all the money they saved from salaries, heath ins and pensions since they pretty much reduced the occupied toll booths to maybe 1 per exchange?
A tax break meant Amazon wouldn't have to pay those taxes. It wasn't the state giving Amazon money to build in PA. So PA never got that money to use to fix the roads.
Just an FYI.
Why does the toll increase every year?
With the passing of Act 44 in 2007 (and revision with Act 89 in 2013), the PTC and PennDOT created a “public-public” partnership in which the Commission was required to start contributing annual payments to PennDOT to help fund infrastructure projects across the state. Act 44 requires the Commission to pay $9.65 billion through 2057, and so far, the Commission has already paid PennDOT more than $5.2 billion. As a result, the Commission has accumulated approximately $5.6 billion in new debt and has had to raise tolls on the Turnpike each year since. Concurrently, the Commission also needs ridership to increase in order to cover debts completely, but as tolls increase and more riders choose alternative routes, the Commission will not be able cover its debts.[10] As Pennsylvania Auditor General, Eugene DePasquale, describes in his September 2016 audit of the Commission, The Turnpike Commission’s ability to raise toll revenue to cover Act 44/89 payments to PennDOT and expenditures for capital projects is potentially unsustainable.”.....
Act 44 and 89 were put in place to create a source of revenue to help fund other infrastructure projects in Pennsylvania. Particularly those that are un-tolled. The need to create this funding is necessary, but the burden of footing said funding has fallen unjustly on those who use the Turnpike and it has hurt the development of the infrastructure itself. A recent article in the Pittsburgh Gazette quotes Commission Chairman Sean Logan describing that “the safety of those who travel our system must remain [the Commission’s] top priority by design”. He went on to describe how Act 40 was “beginning to hamper [the PTC’s] ability to maintain and improve an asset that has been in [the Commission’s] care since 1940.”[17] Though the Commission moves forward with maintenance and road repairs, it plunges itself further and further into debt, and will be unable to sustain operations if projections are sustained.
According to the Commission, the current debt will eventually be paid off, but only if it can increase ridership as it projects in its reports. Ultimately, the burden of funding road projects across the state will fall unjustly on the shoulders of those who use the Turnpike. Act 44 hurts a transportation system it was designed to help and strains a system of cash it requires to maintain and improve a vital transportation corridor for the Keystone State and the American economy.
Why does the toll increase every year?
With the passing of Act 44 in 2007 (and revision with Act 89 in 2013), the PTC and PennDOT created a “public-public” partnership in which the Commission was required to start contributing annual payments to PennDOT to help fund infrastructure projects across the state. Act 44 requires the Commission to pay $9.65 billion through 2057, and so far, the Commission has already paid PennDOT more than $5.2 billion. As a result, the Commission has accumulated approximately $5.6 billion in new debt and has had to raise tolls on the Turnpike each year since. Concurrently, the Commission also needs ridership to increase in order to cover debts completely, but as tolls increase and more riders choose alternative routes, the Commission will not be able cover its debts.[10] As Pennsylvania Auditor General, Eugene DePasquale, describes in his September 2016 audit of the Commission, The Turnpike Commission’s ability to raise toll revenue to cover Act 44/89 payments to PennDOT and expenditures for capital projects is potentially unsustainable.”.....
Act 44 and 89 were put in place to create a source of revenue to help fund other infrastructure projects in Pennsylvania. Particularly those that are un-tolled. The need to create this funding is necessary, but the burden of footing said funding has fallen unjustly on those who use the Turnpike and it has hurt the development of the infrastructure itself. A recent article in the Pittsburgh Gazette quotes Commission Chairman Sean Logan describing that “the safety of those who travel our system must remain [the Commission’s] top priority by design”. He went on to describe how Act 40 was “beginning to hamper [the PTC’s] ability to maintain and improve an asset that has been in [the Commission’s] care since 1940.”[17] Though the Commission moves forward with maintenance and road repairs, it plunges itself further and further into debt, and will be unable to sustain operations if projections are sustained.
According to the Commission, the current debt will eventually be paid off, but only if it can increase ridership as it projects in its reports. Ultimately, the burden of funding road projects across the state will fall unjustly on the shoulders of those who use the Turnpike. Act 44 hurts a transportation system it was designed to help and strains a system of cash it requires to maintain and improve a vital transportation corridor for the Keystone State and the American economy.
East of the mall. Not at the mall. That is why there are constant traffic jams west of the mall. That is why the planned expansion goes WEST.
But all monies are fungible...didn't Rodney Erickson tell us that once???
Is Dambly on the Turnpike Commission?
Yeah, but he really didn't want to.
Is that the most absurd program you've ever seen, or what? Who came up with that stupid idea?
CSXs previous $84 million dollars bought CEO shot that down from it's original incarnation. I think it might have started by now, but then again it's just like anything... everybody waiting on someone else to foot the bill.
And yet most Amerikuns want more government. Medicare fraud cost taxpayers $60B/yr and yet everyone's pining for "Medicare for All." Go figure.
This is the liquor privatization discussion all over again. When there is talk of privatizing anything the public employee unions start pouring millions into politician’s coffers to protect the system in place. Why should we be paying a clerk in a liquor store above market rate and allowing them a hefty pension after 25 years? It makes no sense. It’s a retail job anyone can do. The patronage system for Turnpike jobs is the same.
That is what is purposely left out of the debate when these discussions happen. The billions in unfunded liabilities owed to public employees pension funds. Are politicians who owe their jobs to these forced donations going to vote to end this huge money laundering scheme? I chuckle whenever an argument is made that privatization will “cost” money. How? The general public has a really poor understanding of economics.
That is what is purposely left out of the debate when these discussions happen. The billions in unfunded liabilities owed to public employees pension funds. Are politicians who owe their jobs to these forced donations going to vote to end this huge money laundering scheme? I chuckle whenever an argument is made that privatization will “cost” money. How? The general public has a really poor understanding of economics.
I'm in a union (railroad) and our representatives, apparently, went to Vegas for the yearly meeting and voted to support this.
How do politicians wind up multimillionaires on a sub 175$ K salary? Why do they leave office with a pension? Our government is $22 trillion in debt. Can you continue to take loans as a citizen and nobody care if you were in just a fraction of that debt?
The reality is, corporate oligarchy is the law of the land, government is now pawn in the war of division, and our political thieves are only concerned with playing the agenda out until they retire into lobbyist jobs. All the wasted money and someone is *actually* concerned about a guy getting a pension off a liquor store job? Really? That's what is sinking the system?
It’s either that or the Mon-Fayette Expressway - or, in fact, the myriad of lane expansion projects on the main line that the Turnpike Commission has spent billions on over the past decade or so.
One of the Turnpike Commission’s big problems is their insistence on pushing forward with highway infrastructure projects that nobody is asking for and nobody will get any utility from. Is there anybody who has ever chosen to take an alternative route because the Turnpike is only two lanes going through Cumberland County instead of the three lanes that it is now?
The problem is that government has encroached on so many aspects of private life that they have no business being in. Why is government running a railroad? Liquor stores? Promoting gambling?
In every instance government runs it less effectively and efficiently than the private sector. That isn’t the primary issue though. It’s a moral question. Is it moral to take (tax) money from people in order to give it to other people for purposes that don’t provide benefit to anyone but a small monitory of the population? Unless we are willing have that debate we will continue sliding toward socialism.
And if you want corporate power to ebb, the size of the government and the power they wield to pick winners and losers must be curbed. A flat tax without deductions would be a great start.
We have the same deal in northern Virginia. The Dulles Toll Road was constructed in 1984. It was constructed as a toll road b/c conventional funding was not available. The toll booths were supposed to be demolished once the cost of construction was covered.
NOPE
Now, the crooked pols jack up the tolls on drivers to subsidize the new metro line that was build in the median. Apparently, the train could never be expected to be paid for with train fares.
When I moved here in 99, it would cost $1.50 for a round trip. Today, a round trip is $9.50. It's estimated when the new rail line extension opens and the deficits grow, tolls would need to be a $19 round trip to adequately subsidize the train.
NEVER give politicians additional means to tax the citizenry..NEVER!!!
Don't say never. Pols love trains and hate cars. If they can find a way to get the funding, they WILL build it, and the citizenry will be forced to subsidize it for eternity b/c suburban rail has never and can never operate in the black. Look for them to concoct some sort of toll road system around KOP (I-76 maybe) or look for a "special tax district" in KOP or near all new stations that will siphon money from the people to fund the train.
Politicians hate cars? Our entire national transportation system is propped up with hundreds of interstate highways that are totally fare-free for any car or truck to drive on for as long as they want. The number of toll roads are minuscule in comparison to the number of free fare roads. The same absolutely cannot be said for trains, whether it’s Amtrak or regional public transit.
Just pay attention a little. Pols love to claim they are addressing transportation issues and a ribbon cutting. Those with an environmental leaning think cars are the devil and expanding roads are like giving crack to an addict. Pols love building trains, (sin)taxing cars (like they are cigarettes), and cutting travel lanes to install bike lanes that few use.
Last edited:
One thing that doesn't get enough attention in all these cost-of-government stories is our totally f---ed up health care system. We are paying double what Canada pays for health care and 3X what France and Italy pay. And a big part of that difference is simply the fact that drug companies charge us 10,20,30 times what they charge Europeans for the same drugs!
So yeah, you get ripped off if you need medine.
But more importantly we all get ripped off in our tax bill because government at all levels is having to put billions upon billions of dollars into skyrocketing costs for employee health insurance.
The inability to deal with the drug barons and profiteering hospitals is probably the biggest failure of our democracy. We can't solve the problem because we continue to elect people to Congress whose idea of democracy is to basically whatever the drug company lobbyists tell them to do.
So yeah, you get ripped off if you need medine.
But more importantly we all get ripped off in our tax bill because government at all levels is having to put billions upon billions of dollars into skyrocketing costs for employee health insurance.
The inability to deal with the drug barons and profiteering hospitals is probably the biggest failure of our democracy. We can't solve the problem because we continue to elect people to Congress whose idea of democracy is to basically whatever the drug company lobbyists tell them to do.
Oh, I pay attention plenty. The point is that the government (state and federal) picks winners and losers with transportation all the time in favor of individual cars and has for the better part of a half-century. The fact that our country is cross-crossed with ribbons of free highways while transit and passenger rail routes are the victim of annual service cuts and price hikes is a testament to that.
Somebody coming up from Washington or Canonsburg or someplace down south can now save 10 minutes going to the Airport. And for that we’re spending a bazillion dollars. It is COMPLETELY INSANE.
It’s like, the more government gets involved, the worst the outcome.
Our government is the most hands-off amongst all first world governments when it comes to healthcare and we experience the highest prices and among the worst health outcomes as a result.
"transit and passenger rail routes are the victim of annual service cuts and price hikes"
not so much - Geography and sparsely populated areas make long distance rail travel uneconomical and unworkable vs highways. Further, if people wanted to ride rail, the demand and revenue would prevent service cuts, price hikes, and taxpayer subsidies. Suburban light rail doesn't work b/c density is not high enough and it doesn't service where people need/want to go, and passenger trains between cities, traversing vast expanses of sparesely populated areas don't either.
The Northeast corridor of Amtrak is the only line they run that operates in the black. This is because DC to Boston is densely populated. None of the others come close. Pols try to push trains despite the economic realities. Without pols spending taxpayer money, Amtrak would run little more than the NE Corridor and suburban metro lines would be defunct..
Before the state lottery, it was the state income tax that was supposed to cure the education funding problem and it was vigorously lobbied for passage by the school teachers. It passed and a large amount of teachers went on strike because they wanted their piece of the new revenue source. It did not work out that well for them or for taxpayers as the money went into the general fund so the politicians of both parties could dole it out to whom they saw fit. Then after the state lottery had passed, casino gambling was passed in the name of education funding, and that has not solved the problem as well. My property taxes in Ohio, most of which went to fund the local schools, went from $4K per year to $12K over a 15 year period, at least 90% of which was for local school funding. Talk about waste and corruption at both the state and local levels.
That’s exactly the winners-and-losers determination that I’m talking about. How many non-tolled interstate highways turn a profit? It’s an inherently unequitable comparison when the government spends hundreds of millions of dollars every year on highway projects with zero revenue in return, while transit projects are somehow expected to be profitable or be cut.
yep...my experience as well. The lakefront properties have taken a hit this last year. This is strange because the economy and markets have never been stronger. But we got hit with two issues: lack of funding from the feds caused the state to increase property tax. At the same time, the new Fed tax caps deducting property taxes at $10k (IIRC). People on the lake are paying $30k, $40k and more per year. This has created the idea that you not only need a pile of cash to buy, you also need to sustain an monthly run rate of $3,000+. Not a lot of people have that kind of assets and cash flow. As a result, lake front properties are not moving.
I’d guess one of his family members is. It now costs $58.30 (IIRC) to go across PA on the Turnpike from New Jersey to Ohio.
Better check things like cancer survival rates, time it takes to see a specialist, you know, when you really need care, do you get it?
Why is the VA such a mess? How about health care on Native American reservations?
Recent story in the Daily Fishwrap(Philly). https://www.philly.com/transportati...-turnpike-suit-truckers-penndot-20190225.html
The Turnpike pays PennDOT $450 million a year. MOst of that money goes to SEPTA. The Turnpike is funding 40 SEpta projects.
The liberals have perfected the bait and switch tax scheme. One industry pays taxes to support another and so on. The result is we don't really know who is funding what, where the money is going and what investments are fiscally sound.
The Turnpike and DRPA has funded hundreds of other projects that have nothing to do with the turnpike or bridges.
The Turnpike pays PennDOT $450 million a year. MOst of that money goes to SEPTA. The Turnpike is funding 40 SEpta projects.
The liberals have perfected the bait and switch tax scheme. One industry pays taxes to support another and so on. The result is we don't really know who is funding what, where the money is going and what investments are fiscally sound.
The Turnpike and DRPA has funded hundreds of other projects that have nothing to do with the turnpike or bridges.
Similar threads
