havent made a payment to state in 3 years. But somehow PA has a huge gas tax and second most expensive turnpike.
Corrupt state.
Corrupt state.
PA Turnpike $11 billion in debt
- Thread starter PennStateNate
- Start date
Corrupt is right. I've heard stories my whole life about the turnpike commission being treated as a personal piggy bank by some of the bigwigs. Also kickbacks, nepotism, and self-dealing are SOP. The turnpike makes the Penn State BOT look like a bunch of amateurs.
HARRISBURG, Pa. —
Updated: 8:08 AM EST Mar 5, 201
The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission is about $11 billion in debt and caught up in an ongoing lawsuit.
PennDOT secretary Leslie Richards admitted the PA Turnpike Commission is behind on payments to the state.
Turnpike tolls paid by drivers are supposed to go toward a $450 million payment to the state for transit projects annually.
Richards said for the past three years, the payment has been missed.
The fourth payment, which is due next month, may also be missed.
A lawsuit has been filed, arguing that the state is violating federal law by using toll money for non-turnpike-related projects.
Those who filed the lawsuit want PennDOT to refund the $6 billion the PA Turnpike Commission has sent them since 2007.
If the PA Turnpike Commission loses the lawsuit, cuts will have to be made.
While officials say it would be catastrophic, they are discussing what filing for bankruptcy would mean for the turnpike.
This isn't just a PA problem. It is the same issue that will take down every state and the federal government.
Government spending more than it earns. And while deficits are OK, they aren't if they are too big.
LdN
so wasn't about 4 or 5 years ago when the state essentially had to use 100% of the allocation of the budget of the transportation dept JUST to pay debt service (so they have no money left actually fix or pay for anything) so they then played funny money with the PA Turnpike and just started borrowing money from them. So everybody knew this day was coming.
The Turnpike shouldn't be required to make payments to the state. Tolls are to be used for the upkeep and benefit of the users of the turnpike. The fee increases have been a direct result of the onerous payments required by the state to fund holes in their transportation budget.
It’s a sneaky way politicians do business. They don’t want to raise property and state taxes (understandably) so they push it off via a turnpike tax or gas tax. Awful.
Any money left over will just be spent by the next group. So spend it now.
There's a reason it costs $20 to drive a one mile tunnel into NYC despite the port authority making a killing at airports.
LdN
Why is the turnpike turning money over to the state? The toll money should be used for maintaining or improving the turnpike.
The gas tax should be spent on roads and bridges, rather than toll roads, mass transit, parks, and trails.
All of this commingling of funds results in money being pi$$ed away.
yeah...just awful. There is a ton of revenue the state brings in from tolls and gas tax. no reason for this.
In Ohio, they sold the approval for a state lottery by stating the revenue would go strait to schools and had a bunch of adds with smiling little kids to tug at your heart strings. When it was passed, they immediately fed that revenue into the school budget but then took out of the general budget the exact same amount. Net/net, the schools had no increase in funding at all but the politicos said that they kept their promises; the money went to schools (they just didn't tell you the funding they'd cut from the general fund).
That's what I have heard. That $ should be fenced in the budget.
The PA turnpike was supposed to become a free road once the original debt was paid. That was supposed to be some time in the early 50's, if I recall.
Perhaps they meant the early 2050's?
Perhaps they meant the early 2050's?
I haven't used it for awhile but the rest stops were very clean and nice private showers.Compared to the wretched Howard Johnsons Pa used to have the misery factor was a ten.
As we have discussed elsewhere as long as they keep people focused on the minutiae, creating single item voters, this will go on forever.
The Turnpike Commission is a political hack free for all. All you can eat buffet of chicanery.
Interestingly, the Turnpike is one of the last bastions of political patronage left. No civil service. It's strictly who you know. For this reason neither the R's nor the D's have any interest in doing away with it - everybody needs goodies to hand out as political paybacks.
In the NCAA Tournament of corruption, Pennsylvania is a #1 seed and a mortal lock for the Final Four. Louisiana and Illinois ought to be sleeping lightly.
Interestingly, the Turnpike is one of the last bastions of political patronage left. No civil service. It's strictly who you know. For this reason neither the R's nor the D's have any interest in doing away with it - everybody needs goodies to hand out as political paybacks.
In the NCAA Tournament of corruption, Pennsylvania is a #1 seed and a mortal lock for the Final Four. Louisiana and Illinois ought to be sleeping lightly.
Truth. For the largest state legislature in the country, per capita, it takes a lot of patronage to keep things running.
"Delaware River Port Authority"
All the creeks and streams big enough to accommodate a port were spoken for.
Plans for a train line to King of Prussia are moving forward. How to pay for it remains a huge question mark
by Jason Laughlin, Updated: March 4, 2019
The proposed King of Prussia rail project promises transit access to one of the region’s biggest job centers, an economic boost — and a bill of about $1.2 billion that planners aren’t quite sure how they’ll pay.
Making the rail real will require “many sources of funding," said Elizabeth Smith, SEPTA’s manager of long-term planning. A federal grant will almost certainly be necessary, but that will pay for half the cost, at most. Funding the balance remains an open question, but one that needs an answer. SEPTA may begin pursuing federal money as soon as 2021.
There are big obstacles to the project, though. State officials say their ability to contribute money may be limited, and a lawsuit that challenges the very core of how public transit is funded in Pennsylvania could derail the project entirely.
“Right now, the reality is, we’re not in a position to dedicate new funding to new projects,” said Jennie Granger, the state Transportation Department’s deputy secretary for multi-modal transportation. “We’re looking at how we regain our current funding, just at that, not at expansion projects.”
link: https://www.philly.com/transportati...a-train-norristown-upper-merion-20190304.html
Does SEPTA even realize that they ALREADY have the Norristown High Speed Line running through KoP? It's been there for 100 years running between 69th St and Main Street Norristown in front of the courthouse.Plans for a train line to King of Prussia are moving forward. How to pay for it remains a huge question mark
by Jason Laughlin, Updated: March 4, 2019
The proposed King of Prussia rail project promises transit access to one of the region’s biggest job centers, an economic boost — and a bill of about $1.2 billion that planners aren’t quite sure how they’ll pay.
Making the rail real will require “many sources of funding," said Elizabeth Smith, SEPTA’s manager of long-term planning. A federal grant will almost certainly be necessary, but that will pay for half the cost, at most. Funding the balance remains an open question, but one that needs an answer. SEPTA may begin pursuing federal money as soon as 2021.
There are big obstacles to the project, though. State officials say their ability to contribute money may be limited, and a lawsuit that challenges the very core of how public transit is funded in Pennsylvania could derail the project entirely.
“Right now, the reality is, we’re not in a position to dedicate new funding to new projects,” said Jennie Granger, the state Transportation Department’s deputy secretary for multi-modal transportation. “We’re looking at how we regain our current funding, just at that, not at expansion projects.”
link: https://www.philly.com/transportati...a-train-norristown-upper-merion-20190304.html
There is 0% chance of ever getting this funded. ZERO.
Now if they wanted to upgrade the existing system, or add circulator buses from the High Speed Line to the office complexes, then they have a case to make.
$1.2B is a complete pipe dream and indicates that nobody is being serious.
Plans for a train line to King of Prussia are moving forward. How to pay for it remains a huge question mark
by Jason Laughlin, Updated: March 4, 2019
The proposed King of Prussia rail project promises transit access to one of the region’s biggest job centers, an economic boost — and a bill of about $1.2 billion that planners aren’t quite sure how they’ll pay.
Making the rail real will require “many sources of funding," said Elizabeth Smith, SEPTA’s manager of long-term planning. A federal grant will almost certainly be necessary, but that will pay for half the cost, at most. Funding the balance remains an open question, but one that needs an answer. SEPTA may begin pursuing federal money as soon as 2021.
There are big obstacles to the project, though. State officials say their ability to contribute money may be limited, and a lawsuit that challenges the very core of how public transit is funded in Pennsylvania could derail the project entirely.
“Right now, the reality is, we’re not in a position to dedicate new funding to new projects,” said Jennie Granger, the state Transportation Department’s deputy secretary for multi-modal transportation. “We’re looking at how we regain our current funding, just at that, not at expansion projects.”
link: https://www.philly.com/transportati...a-train-norristown-upper-merion-20190304.html
LOL, I was going to ask how much of that turnpike money was going to SEPTA.
Plans for a train line to King of Prussia are moving forward. How to pay for it remains a huge question mark
by Jason Laughlin, Updated: March 4, 2019
The proposed King of Prussia rail project promises transit access to one of the region’s biggest job centers, an economic boost — and a bill of about $1.2 billion that planners aren’t quite sure how they’ll pay.
Making the rail real will require “many sources of funding," said Elizabeth Smith, SEPTA’s manager of long-term planning. A federal grant will almost certainly be necessary, but that will pay for half the cost, at most. Funding the balance remains an open question, but one that needs an answer. SEPTA may begin pursuing federal money as soon as 2021.
There are big obstacles to the project, though. State officials say their ability to contribute money may be limited, and a lawsuit that challenges the very core of how public transit is funded in Pennsylvania could derail the project entirely.
“Right now, the reality is, we’re not in a position to dedicate new funding to new projects,” said Jennie Granger, the state Transportation Department’s deputy secretary for multi-modal transportation. “We’re looking at how we regain our current funding, just at that, not at expansion projects.”
link: https://www.philly.com/transportati...a-train-norristown-upper-merion-20190304.html
This episode is only about 25 years old, which in politicians' eyes makes it new again.
HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) — Drivers will have their first opportunity to officially tell Connecticut lawmakers what they think about the prospect of highway tolls.
On Wednesday, the General Assembly’s Transportation Committee will hear public testimony on Democratic Gov. Ned Lamont’s proposal to create an electronic tolling system on Interstates 84, 91, 95 and Route 15.
The bill allows the Department of Transportation to, among other things, enter into tolling agreements with the Federal Highway Administration and other entities; spend funds to design and set up a system; and enter into reciprocal agreements with other states with tolls.
Lamont has said Connecticut needs revenue from tolling to finance transportation infrastructure projects. He’s proposed tolling either trucks only or all vehicles, the latter which Lamont appears to favor.
Opponents say residents can’t afford highway tolls.
On Wednesday, the General Assembly’s Transportation Committee will hear public testimony on Democratic Gov. Ned Lamont’s proposal to create an electronic tolling system on Interstates 84, 91, 95 and Route 15.
The bill allows the Department of Transportation to, among other things, enter into tolling agreements with the Federal Highway Administration and other entities; spend funds to design and set up a system; and enter into reciprocal agreements with other states with tolls.
Lamont has said Connecticut needs revenue from tolling to finance transportation infrastructure projects. He’s proposed tolling either trucks only or all vehicles, the latter which Lamont appears to favor.
Opponents say residents can’t afford highway tolls.
Low balling the engineering & construction costs to improve government funding appropriations?
Maryland and CSX Transportation have submitted another application for federal money to heighten the Howard Street Tunnel in Baltimore so it can fit shipping containers stacked two-high on freight trains — a project long sought by the port of Baltimore, officials announced Monday.
The cost of heightening the tunnel and 22 bridges between Baltimore and Philadelphia, initially estimated to be in the billions, is $466 million. The railroad and the state have agreed to chip in more than half of that amount — $147 million from the state, and $91 million from CSX. They are asking the federal government to pay the remaining $228 million.
lINK:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/m...unnel-funding-application-20190304-story.html
Maryland, CSX apply again for federal funding for Howard Street Tunnel expansion in Baltimore
Colin CampbellContact ReporterThe Baltimore SunMaryland and CSX Transportation have submitted another application for federal money to heighten the Howard Street Tunnel in Baltimore so it can fit shipping containers stacked two-high on freight trains — a project long sought by the port of Baltimore, officials announced Monday.
The cost of heightening the tunnel and 22 bridges between Baltimore and Philadelphia, initially estimated to be in the billions, is $466 million. The railroad and the state have agreed to chip in more than half of that amount — $147 million from the state, and $91 million from CSX. They are asking the federal government to pay the remaining $228 million.
lINK:
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/m...unnel-funding-application-20190304-story.html
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The Johnstown Flood Tax has that beat - started in 1936 and still going strong.
It will only become a free road when conditions deteriorate to Mad Max level.
Well, if pa politicians were smart, they’d just tax the rich now before the federal government does. A 70% tax would go a long way to make up the shortfalls. Of course, given the size of pa vis a vis the United States, the tax would have to begin at all incomes over $50,000. Sarcasm, by the wayHARRISBURG, Pa. —
Updated: 8:08 AM EST Mar 5, 201
The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission is about $11 billion in debt and caught up in an ongoing lawsuit.
PennDOT secretary Leslie Richards admitted the PA Turnpike Commission is behind on payments to the state.
Turnpike tolls paid by drivers are supposed to go toward a $450 million payment to the state for transit projects annually.
Richards said for the past three years, the payment has been missed.
The fourth payment, which is due next month, may also be missed.
A lawsuit has been filed, arguing that the state is violating federal law by using toll money for non-turnpike-related projects.
Those who filed the lawsuit want PennDOT to refund the $6 billion the PA Turnpike Commission has sent them since 2007.
If the PA Turnpike Commission loses the lawsuit, cuts will have to be made.
While officials say it would be catastrophic, they are discussing what filing for bankruptcy would mean for the turnpike.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
And what was the state willing to give to Amazon as part of it's HQ2 proposal?
As an aside, anyone know how much the folks in Breezewood pay their elected officials to keep the I70 > Turnpike interchange running through their 'town'?
As an aside, anyone know how much the folks in Breezewood pay their elected officials to keep the I70 > Turnpike interchange running through their 'town'?
The Amazon deal was reportedly for tax breaks of $4.6B (state) and an additional $1.1B (local).
The abandon Green Stamp thru Breezewood does make an excellent bike path. I was going to comment on Breezewood earlier, but now that you did, here’s a great article.
link:
https://uncoveringpa.com/abandoned-pa-turnpike
If One-Term Tommy was still in charge he would just jack another $.99 cents a gallon gas tax at the pump to bail the corrupt org out...
I believe the Commonwealth funds the road projects for the turnpike and in return the turnpike agrees to pay the Commonwealth back. Basically, the Commonwealth provides the capital for road projects/upkeep in the form of a loan (probably 0%) and the turnpike commission is defaulting on that loan by not paying it back.
Which makes you wonder, if the turnpike commission is not paying back the loan what ARE they doing with the money they bring in via tolls?
A lot. Just ask Bill Shuster.
I hate that particular part of the PA Pike and make sure I am past the Breezewood exit by 11:00 am on the Sunday after Thanksgiving.
Yea I've been through them and they are creepy as hell.
Its like Cormac McCarthy meets The Walking Dead.
At one point, pa turnpike had 3 times the number of employees per mile relative to the norm.
I believe Randell securitized future tolls for many, many years- to get cash now. What else is new with the political class.
As a result of selling the tools, the turnpike is obligated by indenture to raise them continually.
I believe pa turnpike is most expensive per mile of any other in the country.
I believe Randell securitized future tolls for many, many years- to get cash now. What else is new with the political class.
As a result of selling the tools, the turnpike is obligated by indenture to raise them continually.
I believe pa turnpike is most expensive per mile of any other in the country.
Because "that money" doesn't exist without the income tax withholdings of the Amazon employees.
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