Again, you are bringing a specific point into a situation where I was making general statements. As a lawyer, I think you are better than that.
OT: Rep Jim Jordan (OH) denies he turned a blind eye to sex abuse while at OSU.
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Even if he was cleared, it would look bad for Jacobs to say "I didn't know Strauss was once criminally investigated for abuse", and then for later evidence to come out showing that Jacobs DID know Strauss was once criminally investigated for abuse.
This is what we are talking about: this. Specific. Case. Your theory may sometimes be valid. I am showing you it is not valid here.
Thanks. A big problem with Twitter is the lack of context due to the character limit. Of course, it would have helped had I known who Baldwin was. Nevertheless, his tweet is misleading on its own.
oh .... you really didnt know who Billy Baldwin is? i thought you were just "outraged" as this tweet LOL
Didn't Jordan go from "I never heard about any of this stuff" to "It was just locker room gossip, as I never received a formal report of abuse?" (I'm paraphrasing, but I think that was about it.)
Obviously a mistake by me. My bad.
I see your post got you a "like" from "demlion the Tribalist."
Andy Geiger, who was named athletic director at Ohio State in April 1994, said Sunday that he worked with Hellickson to move the wrestlers out of Larkins because of complaints about voyeurism in the showers. The team was eventually relocated to Steelwood Athletic Training Facility, a new building that opened in 2003, and Larkins Hall was demolished two years later.
“I was concerned that we not have harassment on either side — that the wrestlers be left alone and feel secure and not harassed or observed or approached,” Geiger told The Post, recalling his desire to protect wrestlers who were “feeling uncomfortable.” “At the same time, I didn’t want [the athletes] to retaliate or make a mistake they would regret.”
Geiger said he had been interviewed by Perkins Coie, a law firm involved in the investigation. He said he does not remember much about Strauss and does not know whether Jordan knew about the alleged misconduct, saying the two overlapped at Ohio State for only a short time. Jordan left the athletic staff on May 31, 1995, according to the school.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3ce89036c78_story.html?utm_term=.00874bc8699f
This bears out Hellickson's claim that he did indeed tell his admins about the voyeurism taking place in the wrestling facility. Jim Jordan was an assistant coach there until 1995. It turns out that at least with regards to this stuff, there was no Golden Age of Acceptable Ogling of the Wrestling Team. It creeped people out.
What did Jordan know about why the team moved away from Larkin Hall? When did he know it? See, apparently this was not too acceptable even way back then.
“I was concerned that we not have harassment on either side — that the wrestlers be left alone and feel secure and not harassed or observed or approached,” Geiger told The Post, recalling his desire to protect wrestlers who were “feeling uncomfortable.” “At the same time, I didn’t want [the athletes] to retaliate or make a mistake they would regret.”
Geiger said he had been interviewed by Perkins Coie, a law firm involved in the investigation. He said he does not remember much about Strauss and does not know whether Jordan knew about the alleged misconduct, saying the two overlapped at Ohio State for only a short time. Jordan left the athletic staff on May 31, 1995, according to the school.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3ce89036c78_story.html?utm_term=.00874bc8699f
This bears out Hellickson's claim that he did indeed tell his admins about the voyeurism taking place in the wrestling facility. Jim Jordan was an assistant coach there until 1995. It turns out that at least with regards to this stuff, there was no Golden Age of Acceptable Ogling of the Wrestling Team. It creeped people out.
What did Jordan know about why the team moved away from Larkin Hall? When did he know it? See, apparently this was not too acceptable even way back then.
When someone points out that you do not know what the hell you are talking about, I like it. Sorry, not sorry.
Then there is nothing for Jordan to do if his boss is taking care of the problem. So far as I know, no one is denying the voyeurism, and I posted earlier about it. Just another attempt to smear Jordan.
You can't admit for him that Jordan knew about the voyeurism. He has to admit it. He has not addressed it, and in his original statement it was nonexistent. Now he has heard rumors and gossip AND knew about voyeurism. It got left out of his original flat denial.
No matter what tribe I am in, news that you are once again talking out your a$$ will always be greeted warmly.
former Nittany Lion great Ken Chertow is a part of a joint statement that supports Jordan.
Chertow was part of that staff apparently
Chertow was part of that staff apparently
It is irrelevant crap. It was not his job to correct the problems. Any number of other coaches, professors, and administrators used the facility. Any of them could complain. Was well known what the problem was. Apparently, the administration didn't care. He was not responsible for Larkins.
For the lynch mobbers and the DiSabato and Yetts fanboys:
""What has been said about Jim Jordan is absolutely wrong. We all worked on the wrestling coaching staff during Jim's tenure at The Ohio State University. None of us saw or heard of abuse of OSU wrestlers. The well-being of student-athletes was all of our concern. If we had heard of any abuse, we would have spoken up," said the statement, signed by former head coach Russ Hellickson and former assistant coaches Dave Ruckman, Rex Holman, Ken Chertow, Myron Kharchilava and Kenny Ramsey Jr.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news...im-jordan-had-to-have-known-about-team-doctor
Also, the non-release of the Hellickson video now comes into focus and context.
""What has been said about Jim Jordan is absolutely wrong. We all worked on the wrestling coaching staff during Jim's tenure at The Ohio State University. None of us saw or heard of abuse of OSU wrestlers. The well-being of student-athletes was all of our concern. If we had heard of any abuse, we would have spoken up," said the statement, signed by former head coach Russ Hellickson and former assistant coaches Dave Ruckman, Rex Holman, Ken Chertow, Myron Kharchilava and Kenny Ramsey Jr.
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news...im-jordan-had-to-have-known-about-team-doctor
Also, the non-release of the Hellickson video now comes into focus and context.
That's what you are talking about. In any case, proving that something is invalid in a specific point of a case does not mean that the point is completely invalid in the case as a whole. I'm concerned about the general concept. Voyeurism is wrong. But open showers and open facilities, for example, were the norm at the time (likely because varsity student athletes were seen as students first and varsity second--or perhaps just from lack of space--Larkins Hall was not that big for a school of 50-60K students) and it seems like all of that is being lumped together. One does not automatically mean the other. Let's be real, in our own case, one reason at the time that the Sandusky shower situations did not raise big red flags with the admins was because back in the day, given the practices at places like the Y, it didn't raise eyebrows like it would today. Hindsight bias.
The fact still remains that the open showers BS DID RAISE EYEBROWS--Hellickson's . And, according to Hellickson's quote from the videotape, other things raised eyebrows--sex in the wrestling room, sex in the stairwell, etc.
This does not guarantee that Hellickson knew anything or got a report of abuse, but it is kind of hard to square with what he is saying now.
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Do you still claim that DiSabato is a victim? See
""What has been said about Jim Jordan is absolutely wrong. We all worked on the wrestling coaching staff during Jim's tenure at The Ohio State University. None of us saw or heard of abuse of OSU wrestlers. The well-being of student-athletes was all of our concern. If we had heard of any abuse, we would have spoken up," said the statement, signed by former head coach Russ Hellickson and former assistant coaches Dave Ruckman, Rex Holman, Ken Chertow, Myron Kharchilava and Kenny Ramsey Jr." https://www.clickondetroit.com/news...im-jordan-had-to-have-known-about-team-doctor
Earlier I had stated: "Read DiSabatos record that I linked you to. There is more than I posted here. No facts on your part. After you have read through that and can discuss it, tell me you believe him and that you would welcome him to your house, and if you had a business you would hire him."
Would hope that you and Wensliver would be more careful and diligent in the future. Probably won't happen.
How can one person speak for others as to what they heard or saw? Sounds like the culpable people are circling the wagons because they know their time in the crosshairs may be coming.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...io-state-sexual-abuse/?utm_term=.50a6802b69f0
Nice analysis of where the Jim Jordan matter stands. It appears the "locker room talk does not equal sexual abuse report" argument is a little thin.
Nice analysis of where the Jim Jordan matter stands. It appears the "locker room talk does not equal sexual abuse report" argument is a little thin.
Not what others here were saying when those wrestlers opposed to Jordan said Jordan had to know.
Look let's stay away from the politics, please. That's Test Board material. I realize we cannot stay 100% away as Jordan is a political figure. But let's stick closer to the actual case, please.
This is where I disagree. If you knew the guy had been criminally investigated, you have ample room to say 'the police knew all about him. he'd been investigated. he was cleared. what else am I supposed to do? the police knew and did nothing."
Never believed for one minute that powerful university age wrestlers were sexually abused. It is apparent that there was a "culture" that gravitated around the program that may have risen to the level of sexual misconduct and or inappropriate behavior. This is certainly nothing that OSU should be proud of. But it seems pretty obvious to me that this has become more about party politics than anyone being sexually abused.
So skinny guys get abused but guys you think are the macho type will just punch someone's lights out? Maybe you're unaware there's a psychological aspect to it as well. But hey, politics!!!
Guess what. Both good guys AND "bad guys" are equally opportune for sexual abuse. Almost all of Sandusky's targets had checkered backgrounds, but none of their voices were marginalized when they came forward as adults despite the baggage.
Thou dos protest too much. The point I was making and i think you are smart enough to realize is before we criticize ANYONE let's get some details.
Quick question, when you first heard MM had told Joe, and Joe testified to the GJ "something sexual" and when TC had a plan that only changed after he hd spoken with Joe, what was your reaction? I was heartbroken! It was only after I learned more details my faith was restored. I neve tried to compare the actions of Joe and Jordan. I only suggested let the details unfold. my further observation is JJ was an assistant coach. If there was a problem why isn't the outrage directed at the head coach and the University as a whole.
Wendy, If the PSU story was a complete political hit job why can't you believe this is also one? The focus on Joe TC GS and GS and NOT TSM is like the focus being on Jim Jordan and NOT on tOSU Ed Ray et al.
You may relate to being 21 and having a guy play with your pecker and be......intimidated.....I'm not buying it. The creepy types hanging around, a doc that should have been axed okay. We're not dealing with children who don't have families and come from disadvantaged backrounds....and got groomed and were star struck.....
You are an adult. You have tonsillitis and some weirdo tells you to drop your pants......you have the common sense to say NO. Jeez oh wee.....what a bunch of bed wetters.
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Attacking or defending some politician based on whether you think they share your political beliefs or not makes no sense.
Nobody in Congress HAS any real beliefs except that they believe that they want to be reelected. If you honestly think otherwise, the joke is on you.
Nobody in Congress HAS any real beliefs except that they believe that they want to be reelected. If you honestly think otherwise, the joke is on you.
He will not be anonymous forever. Chances are fairly good that they are not anonymous to Jordan.
Dont know where this is going to end up, but neither does Jordan. He knows what he did or did not do, though. I reckon sleep is coming at a premium. Id recommend Ambien, but i hear it causes racism.
Dont know what the effect on a person who is already a racist would be.
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If you're gonna make a statement that can destroy a guy have the balls to put your name on it.
