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OT. Let me get this straight......

I don’t really understand the reluctance to legalize marijuana. It has been proven to be non addictive and there have been no proven cases of death as a result of overdose. Can’t say the same for alcohol and yet it is legal. I guess we have grown accustomed to it so we are willing to live with its perils, myself
Included.

Personally, I would prefer to legalize and regulate marijuana than allow illegal elements control it. Having teenage and young adult children, I can tell you getting marijuana in PA is not difficult. I also have a close friend with a grow in WA. Before he can sell any marijuana, the material is inspected for desease, pesticides, fungus and other pests. Everything is also assayed so you also know exactly how much THC or CBD is contained when you purchase it. BTW, it is not unusual for some of his bud to assay at over 30% THC.
Actually, THC/CBD users often develop tolerance, with increasing doses needed to satisfy the reward wiring in our brains (similar to alcohol, cocaine and opioids). Chronic use with stoppage frequently leads to withdrawal, characterized by irritability, anxiety, paranoia and disrupted sleep.
THC/CBD, in point of fact, is addictive and research shows that addiction potential is worse among young adults. Habitual users who start before the age of 25 have about a 10% risk of becoming addicted to marijuana (Mayo Clinic).
 
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The testing I quoted was done on blood, not hair. You are correct - 2 data points is a line, not a trend. Other numbers to demonstrate a trend include 2013 with 47 deaths, 2014 with 66, 2015 with 88 and 2016 with 115. Yeah if you graph those numbers it is a pretty good upward trend.
72 of the 115 from 2016 (63%) were above the legal blood limit in Colorado for operating a motor vehicle while impaired.
Ok. Speed limits were increased...a lot during this period. Phone usage went up...a lot during this period. The number of young people moving to Colorado went up...a lot during this period. The number of people with jobs and therefore cars went up...a lot during this period.

Come one, stop with the bs statistics that were made for one side of an argument.

How many young single mothers didn't lose their jobs and children because they weren't arrested for marijuana?

Overall, I'd be willing to bet increased speed limits, with no additional driver training required, is the main contributor to an increase in traffic deaths.
 
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Actually, THC/CBD users often develop tolerance, with increasing doses needed to satisfy the reward wiring in our brains (similar to alcohol, cocaine and opioids). Chronic use with stoppage frequently leads to withdrawal, characterized by irritability, anxiety, paranoia and disrupted sleep.
THC/CBD, in point of fact, is addictive and research shows that addiction potential is worse among young adults. Habitual users who start before the age of 25 have about a 10% risk of becoming addicted to marijuana (Mayo Clinic).

I know people that get headaches if they don't have caffeine in the morning.
Have you ever been close to anyone on a diet? Talk about irritability and anxiety.
 
Ok. Speed limits were increased...a lot during this period. Phone usage went up...a lot during this period. The number of young people moving to Colorado went up...a lot during this period. The number of people with jobs and therefore cars went up...a lot during this period.

Come one, stop with the bs statistics that were made for one side of an argument.

How many young single mothers didn't lose their jobs and children because they weren't arrested for marijuana?

Overall, I'd be willing to bet increased speed limits, with no additional driver training required, is the main contributor to an increase in traffic deaths.
The data I quoted came from the Colorado Dept of Transportation. It did not include any numbers on speed limits, phone usage, young people, jobs or cars. No data on Cheeto sales during that period either.
Look, I've said in another post that I think legal recreational THC/CBD is coming, sooner rather than later, to probably every state. Common sense, to me, says that legalizing a substance that impairs the ability to drive certainly could lead to an increase in accidents/fatalities involving that substance. You obviously believe differently - ain't freedom of speech grand?
 
The data I quoted came from the Colorado Dept of Transportation. It did not include any numbers on speed limits, phone usage, young people, jobs or cars. No data on Cheeto sales during that period either.
Look, I've said in another post that I think legal recreational THC/CBD is coming, sooner rather than later, to probably every state. Common sense, to me, says that legalizing a substance that impairs the ability to drive certainly could lead to an increase in accidents/fatalities involving that substance. You obviously believe differently - ain't freedom of speech grand?

Did it say that weed was the primary cause or was alcohol also involved?
 
Actually, THC/CBD users often develop tolerance, with increasing doses needed to satisfy the reward wiring in our brains (similar to alcohol, cocaine and opioids). Chronic use with stoppage frequently leads to withdrawal, characterized by irritability, anxiety, paranoia and disrupted sleep.
THC/CBD, in point of fact, is addictive and research shows that addiction potential is worse among young adults. Habitual users who start before the age of 25 have about a 10% risk of becoming addicted to marijuana (Mayo Clinic).

There are consequences to over indulgence in almost everything. To much food and one gets fat. Over indulgence in alcohol leads to addiction, cirrhosis and other deleterous effects. Everything I have read about marijuana suggests it is far less hazardous than alcohol.
 
Did it say that weed was the primary cause or was alcohol also involved?
The only breakdown I've seen in for the 2016 data. 72 of the 115 fatalities had blood levels above the Colorado limit for marijuana impairment - so 43 did not have a MJ level above impairment. 35 of the 115 (30.4%) also had alcohol in their system, in addition to marijuana. 23 of 115 (20%) had marijuana and "another drug of impairment" in their system - not specified. Finally, 6 of 115 (5.2%) had marijuana, alcohol and another drug of impairment. Alcohol levels were not specified.

Authors of the study believe the actual numbers may be higher, as Colorado law does not currently require coroners to test for MJ use in fatal crashes - some do and some don't. Another factor cited by the authors as to why actual use of MJ factoring in accidents may be higher than what was reported is that police often don't pursue THC/CBD testing if surviving drivers in crashes have an alcohol level that is high enough to charge them with a crime.
 
Did it say that weed was the primary cause or was alcohol also involved?
--
Are there any studies of the synergistic affect of alcohol/pot combined? Perhaps using the two together makes both more psycho-active. Perhaps if you are doing both, it inhibits one's ability to make a wise decision about impairment. Maybe people who do both, which is a large majority, are influenced quicker and stronger.

I know if I have a few beers I can feel the affect. Maybe doing both one doesn't realize how much they have been affected.

I know that legalization is inevitable. Too much money for the states to pass on. But that doesn't mean I can't ask tough questions about how legalization will affect us all.
 
The only breakdown I've seen in for the 2016 data. 72 of the 115 fatalities had blood levels above the Colorado limit for marijuana impairment - so 43 did not have a MJ level above impairment. 35 of the 115 (30.4%) also had alcohol in their system, in addition to marijuana. 23 of 115 (20%) had marijuana and "another drug of impairment" in their system - not specified. Finally, 6 of 115 (5.2%) had marijuana, alcohol and another drug of impairment. Alcohol levels were not specified.

Authors of the study believe the actual numbers may be higher, as Colorado law does not currently require coroners to test for MJ use in fatal crashes - some do and some don't. Another factor cited by the authors as to why actual use of MJ factoring in accidents may be higher than what was reported is that police often don't pursue THC/CBD testing if surviving drivers in crashes have an alcohol level that is high enough to charge them with a crime.
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Thanks for all the good data even if it is inconclusive.

Say I have a BA of .06, below the level of intoxication. But I also have some MJ in blood,. Does the combined amounts make me an impaired driver? What about a three drug cocktail...alcohol, MJ, and a prescription drug?
 
The only breakdown I've seen in for the 2016 data. 72 of the 115 fatalities had blood levels above the Colorado limit for marijuana impairment - so 43 did not have a MJ level above impairment. 35 of the 115 (30.4%) also had alcohol in their system, in addition to marijuana. 23 of 115 (20%) had marijuana and "another drug of impairment" in their system - not specified. Finally, 6 of 115 (5.2%) had marijuana, alcohol and another drug of impairment. Alcohol levels were not specified.

Authors of the study believe the actual numbers may be higher, as Colorado law does not currently require coroners to test for MJ use in fatal crashes - some do and some don't. Another factor cited by the authors as to why actual use of MJ factoring in accidents may be higher than what was reported is that police often don't pursue THC/CBD testing if surviving drivers in crashes have an alcohol level that is high enough to charge them with a crime.


Interesting.
 
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Are there any studies of the synergistic affect of alcohol/pot combined? Perhaps using the two together makes both more psycho-active. Perhaps if you are doing both, it inhibits one's ability to make a wise decision about impairment. Maybe people who do both, which is a large majority, are influenced quicker and stronger.

I know if I have a few beers I can feel the affect. Maybe doing both one doesn't realize how much they have been affected.

I know that legalization is inevitable. Too much money for the states to pass on. But that doesn't mean I can't ask tough questions about how legalization will affect us all.

There is a decent amount of info online.
 
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Thanks for all the good data even if it is inconclusive.

Say I have a BA of .06, below the level of intoxication. But I also have some MJ in blood,. Does the combined amounts make me an impaired driver? What about a three drug cocktail...alcohol, MJ, and a prescription drug?
I think this topic (impaired driver in the setting of more than one substance) will be growing, changing a lot in the next few years.

One area that I know has a fair amount of research being done currently is developing a fast, reliable and portable test for THC/CBD in the blood to determine impairment, given the rise in MJ legalization. The MJ equivalent of a breathalyzer (but testing blood), if you will.
 
Another tremendous source of revenue starting to be realized is CBD. CBD is extracted from hemp, and unlike THC, is not psychoactive. CBD is believed to offer many medicinal benefits, but it does not get you high. One can smoke hemp, but there are numerous other sources of CBD, including vaping, edibles, and topicals. A CBD drug has even been approved by the FDA (Epidiolex).

I use a CBD/THC balm for an inflamed shoulder. Ratio is 3/1. The CBD part is anti-inflammatory while the THC part helps the pain. Within 10 minutes of applying it, there is a significant relief from the pain. I am convinced this would not work the same without the THC part of it. So here is relief with the help of THC and no getting high etc.
 
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I use a CBD/THC balm for an inflamed shoulder. Ratio is 3/1. The CBD part is anti-inflammatory while the THC part helps the pain. Within 10 minutes of applying it, there is a significant relief from the pain. I am convinced this would not work the same without the THC part of it. So here is relief with the help of THC and no getting high etc.

My understanding is that CBD by itself is not very effective but becomes much more effective when paired with THC. The scientific term for this kind of interaction currently escapes me but the THC helps open the binding sites so CBD can bind more efficiently.
 
My understanding is that CBD by itself is not very effective but becomes much more effective when paired with THC. The scientific term for this kind of interaction currently escapes me but the THC helps open the binding sites so CBD can bind more efficiently.

That could be correct, I’m not sure. I know people that can’t get the CBD/THC combo, but are still getting benefit from straight CBD. But if the combo works, then it should be available for everyone to buy if they desire it. The THC is not a negative here
 
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The only breakdown I've seen in for the 2016 data. 72 of the 115 fatalities had blood levels above the Colorado limit for marijuana impairment - so 43 did not have a MJ level above impairment. 35 of the 115 (30.4%) also had alcohol in their system, in addition to marijuana. 23 of 115 (20%) had marijuana and "another drug of impairment" in their system - not specified. Finally, 6 of 115 (5.2%) had marijuana, alcohol and another drug of impairment. Alcohol levels were not specified.

Authors of the study believe the actual numbers may be higher, as Colorado law does not currently require coroners to test for MJ use in fatal crashes - some do and some don't. Another factor cited by the authors as to why actual use of MJ factoring in accidents may be higher than what was reported is that police often don't pursue THC/CBD testing if surviving drivers in crashes have an alcohol level that is high enough to charge them with a crime.
Of course they are higher today. Did they actually check ANY prior to 2013? If so few do today, then almost none did before.
 
The only breakdown I've seen in for the 2016 data. 72 of the 115 fatalities had blood levels above the Colorado limit for marijuana impairment - so 43 did not have a MJ level above impairment. 35 of the 115 (30.4%) also had alcohol in their system, in addition to marijuana. 23 of 115 (20%) had marijuana and "another drug of impairment" in their system - not specified. Finally, 6 of 115 (5.2%) had marijuana, alcohol and another drug of impairment. Alcohol levels were not specified.

Authors of the study believe the actual numbers may be higher, as Colorado law does not currently require coroners to test for MJ use in fatal crashes - some do and some don't. Another factor cited by the authors as to why actual use of MJ factoring in accidents may be higher than what was reported is that police often don't pursue THC/CBD testing if surviving drivers in crashes have an alcohol level that is high enough to charge them with a crime.
Stop with the data unless it's a complete study. Where to start...
How many of the 72 had alcohol in their system and what level?
How many of the 72 had another drug in their system?
How many of the 72 also had alcohol and another drug of impairment in their system?
Where did the legal limit come from? <<==I'd love to see this number.
Doesn't anyone know how to do a Design of Experiments?

1. Speed Limits
2. Increase in younger population
3. More money in general increasing more vacationers/people on the road
. blah
. blah
. blah
n. Recreational MJ.

BTW, when the police don't have MJ to investigate other crime rates tend to increase.
 
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Yep, and many edibles have much more THC than a single joint. And much pot has been genetically altered to have double or more than the THC than old, regular pot. In Canada you can buy a THC lollipop with nines times the THC in a standard joint.
Do one of these lollipops on Sunday night and then go to work on Monday. Again I ask;

What levels of THC are enough to cause cognitive issues? What is acceptable in driving DUI? I hear that traffic accidents are up in Colorado....is it related to THC use? How can a driver be quickly, accurately, and cheaply tested?

What about work related safety issues....THC stays in the system much longer than alcohol. I can have a six pack on Sunday watching sports and be at zero BAL by Monday morning. Not true for THC. If I have an employee that smokes several joints, or ingests it, what is the safe level for him to work on a dangerous construction site or drive trucks or forklifts? Who is liable if a worker that has residual THC in his/her system and causes a death on the job? How do I make sure that employees have THC at or below acceptable levels in their system?
 
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Yep, and many edibles have much more THC than a single joint. And much pot has been genetically altered to have double or more than the THC than old, regular pot. In Canada you can buy a THC lollipop with nines times the THC in a standard joint.
Do one of these lollipops on Sunday night and then go to work on Monday. Again I ask;

What levels of THC are enough to cause cognitive issues? What is acceptable in driving DUI? I hear that traffic accidents are up in Colorado....is it related to THC use? How can a driver be quickly, accurately, and cheaply tested?

What about work related safety issues....THC stays in the system much longer than alcohol. I can have a six pack on Sunday watching sports and be at zero BAL by Monday morning. Not true for THC. If I have an employee that smokes several joints, or ingests it, what is the safe level for him to work on a dangerous construction site or drive trucks or forklifts? Who is liable if a worker that has residual THC in his/her system and causes a death on the job? How do I make sure that employees have THC at or below acceptable levels in their system?
In the 20 plus years in Management before I retired I never ran into issues with people coming in to work with issues from using mj, edibles etc. I did have many issues over 20 years of those that called in sick, late or came in hungover from alcohol. I moved to Colorado in 72 and except for 10 years in the 80’s with the oil shale bust this state continues to grow because of it’s climate, amount of sunshine, attractive pro-business attitude and of course the quality of life and numerous outdoor activities. Believe me Pa. will legalize recreational marijuana use after NY, NJ, Oh do because they will realize the tax revenue they are missing when their residents are making short trips across the border to buy it. I see residents from Ks. Mo, Tx, Ok, Wy, and other neighboring states that come to visit and the first thing they want to do is visit an MJ retailer. Most are buying for use in Colorado but I am sure some leaves the state since they can’t get regulated, pesticide free edibles, oils, or flowers at their home. These aren’t 21 year old college students, most of them in the 40-75 range. Colorado is glad to take their money to fill our tax coffers. The same rules apply here for mj as alcohol if you come into work drunk or high you either get fired or sent home. National legalization will eventually happen and big alcohol and tobacco companies like STZ and MO are already making large investments. I can tell you the majority of car accidents are related to distracted driving, texting, and alcohol. We have also had a fair amount of southerners move in that have no clue how to drive in the snow or know what a snow tire is. The vast majority of DUI’s are still the result of alcohol. Companies are still allowed to drug test and all heavy machinery and equipment operators are routinely tested.
 
Stop with the data unless it's a complete study. Where to start...
How many of the 72 had alcohol in their system and what level?
How many of the 72 had another drug in their system?
How many of the 72 also had alcohol and another drug of impairment in their system?
Where did the legal limit come from? <<==I'd love to see this number.
Doesn't anyone know how to do a Design of Experiments?

1. Speed Limits
2. Increase in younger population
3. More money in general increasing more vacationers/people on the road
. blah
. blah
. blah
n. Recreational MJ.

BTW, when the police don't have MJ to investigate other crime rates tend to increase.
First, a disclaimer. I did not "design the experiment" I quoted, nor am I one of the authors of the study. Second, having participated in the design and execution of several randomized, double-blinded controlled medical studies, I fully understand how that process works. This was an observational report, not a prospectively designed study.
Continuing, did you actually read my post? If you had you would have realized that 72/115 were above the Colorado legal limit for MJ impairment, 35/115 had MJ + alcohol, 23/115 had MJ + other drug and 6/115 had MJ, alcohol and other drug.
This thread has gotten comical to me, as I will assume from your vigorous defense that MJ simply cannot be a reason for increased fatalities since its legalization in Colorado that you either are a user of MJ or a strong supporter of its legalization. Your inability to comprehend my post leads me to think you are in the former category, as both attention and memory can be affected by MJ use.
 
Legalizing marijuana generates tax revenue. Inmates dont pay taxes.

And for every dollar generated it cost $4.50 according to a study in the Denver Post. I mean if a well run state like Colorado has problems what do you think will be the true cost in PA?
 
In the 20 plus years in Management before I retired I never ran into issues with people coming in to work with issues from using mj, edibles etc. I did have many issues over 20 years of those that called in sick, late or came in hungover from alcohol. I moved to Colorado in 72 and except for 10 years in the 80’s with the oil shale bust this state continues to grow because of it’s climate, amount of sunshine, attractive pro-business attitude and of course the quality of life and numerous outdoor activities. Believe me Pa. will legalize recreational marijuana use after NY, NJ, Oh do because they will realize the tax revenue they are missing when their residents are making short trips across the border to buy it. I see residents from Ks. Mo, Tx, Ok, Wy, and other neighboring states that come to visit and the first thing they want to do is visit an MJ retailer. Most are buying for use in Colorado but I am sure some leaves the state since they can’t get regulated, pesticide free edibles, oils, or flowers at their home. These aren’t 21 year old college students, most of them in the 40-75 range. Colorado is glad to take their money to fill our tax coffers. The same rules apply here for mj as alcohol if you come into work drunk or high you either get fired or sent home. National legalization will eventually happen and big alcohol and tobacco companies like STZ and MO are already making large investments. I can tell you the majority of car accidents are related to distracted driving, texting, and alcohol. We have also had a fair amount of southerners move in that have no clue how to drive in the snow or know what a snow tire is. The vast majority of DUI’s are still the result of alcohol. Companies are still allowed to drug test and all heavy machinery and equipment operators are routinely tested.

Good post.
 
Call me skeptical, but when it comes to politics / politicians I always believe in the saying "follow the $$$". The medical marijuana and the legalized marijuana industry are huge money makers. No doubt the politicians who are in favor of legalizing marijuana have their hands in the cookie jar by way of a relative or friend being in line to own stores, or just good old fashioned kick backs.

If it was all about medical purposes, then why are we not pursuing legalized steroids much harder? The US is far behind Europe and other parts of the world when it comes to the use of steroids as a treatment for many debilitating or painful diseases. For example, my Mother suffered from severe rheumatoid arthritis. Got to the point where no US medications or treatments could help her. Several of her doctors in the Phoenix area told her that if she could go over to Europe and get steroid treatments.

My guess is that the legalized steroid market does not have as big of a net on kick backs and "family business deals" for the politicians as does marijuana.
 
Don’t make the assumption that Colorado’s MJ regulatory effort is well run. The fact that they have problems is an indicator that it may not.

This is going to be a learning process, what works and what doesn’t. There are other states that may have a better framework for regulating legalized MJ.

Dont make the assumption that I am assuming it is well run. The fact that govt is run as well as the Second Mile in anything is scary.

The fact that Colorado is a better run state than PA. You think PA wont **** it up once, twice, three times?

I have a better chance of ****ing Jen Aniston and JLo this week while AROD videos it, than PA has at not ****ing this up.
 
And for every dollar generated it cost $4.50 according to a study in the Denver Post. I mean if a well run state like Colorado has problems what do you think will be the true cost in PA?
Could you provide a link and also paste the article here as the Denver Post requires a subscription.

I did find this tax revenue table that the Colorado Department of Revenue posted. They are bringing in nearly $270 Million in tax and fee revenue per year and someone is trying to say that it cost $1.22 Billion per year? No way!


Year Revenue
2014 $67,594,323
2015 $130,411,173
2016 $193,604,810
2017 $247,368,473
2018 $266,529,637
2019 (Jan - Feb) $43,283,110

Total Revenue so far: $948,791,526

These numbers are only directly attributed to MJ. The over 30,000 jobs in the industry, the increase in tourism, business investment, etc is all in addition.

I can't find a reliable source for the cost of enforcement.

Here is the link to the above data:
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data
 
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Could you provide a link and also paste the article here as the Denver Post requires a subscription.

I did find this tax revenue table that the Colorado Department of Revenue posted. They are bringing in nearly $270 Million in tax and fee revenue per year and someone is trying to say that it cost $1.22 Billion per year? No way!


Year Revenue
2014 $67,594,323
2015 $130,411,173
2016 $193,604,810
2017 $247,368,473
2018 $266,529,637
2019 (Jan - Feb) $43,283,110

Total Revenue so far: $948,791,526

These numbers are only directly attributed to MJ. The over 30,000 jobs in the industry, the increase in tourism, business investment, etc is all in addition.

I can't find a reliable source for the cost of enforcement.

Here is the link to the above data:
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data

Yea the Denver Post said they were doing a series on MJ laws and how they were effecting CO. but you have to pay for it.
And I agree that "cost for every dollar generated" makes zero sense.
 
Could you provide a link and also paste the article here as the Denver Post requires a subscription.

I did find this tax revenue table that the Colorado Department of Revenue posted. They are bringing in nearly $270 Million in tax and fee revenue per year and someone is trying to say that it cost $1.22 Billion per year? No way!


Year Revenue
2014 $67,594,323
2015 $130,411,173
2016 $193,604,810
2017 $247,368,473
2018 $266,529,637
2019 (Jan - Feb) $43,283,110

Total Revenue so far: $948,791,526

These numbers are only directly attributed to MJ. The over 30,000 jobs in the industry, the increase in tourism, business investment, etc is all in addition.

I can't find a reliable source for the cost of enforcement.

Here is the link to the above data:
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/revenue/colorado-marijuana-tax-data

A co-worker told me his son made $60,000 in 9 Mos. for trimming bud in CA.
 
Hardened criminals, some who are incarcerated for life, can no longer go into the yard and light up but the Governor has sent the Lt. Governor out into the state to stick his finger in the air and see if it's OK to legalize "recreational" marijuana. What's wrong with this picture? I am a devout non smoker, having gone through countless car rides in the summer and having my fathers cigarette ash fly in my face in the back seat (He was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in 87, had a Whipple and passed away from it in 1991, my mother passed away about 2 years ago from COPD which was probably brought on by my fathers 3 pack of Pall Mell's a day habit). Does it make sense when the right hand is saying "Smoking is bad, we are trying to help you and make you quit" while the left hand is saying "Go ahead, light up"? If studies prove it has medicinal value and people want to go that way, fine. but overall, shouldn't we be trying to get people to quit smoking period?



Interesting...as I was reading this I felt like I wrote it. My memories are so similar! Grew up in Western Pa. in the 50s/60s and have vivid memories of sitting in the middle of the front seat of my parents 1957 Chevy sans air conditioning with windows up touring Civil War Battlefields in July while both parents smoked their unfiltered Pall Malls. As with your parents, both had lung issues. Of course I too took up the habit but kicked the habit, after many tries, in my late thirties. How my family put up with the second hand smoke is beyond me.
Fortunately I quit early and have avoided any lasting adverse lung problems...at least so far. Furthermore I agree with your observations.
 
I think this is a very valid question. If I were operating a bulldozer on a Monday morning I would not be eating a pot brownie Sunday after dinner -- nor would I be drinking a lot of bourbon Sunday night. I would be making sure I got good sleep and was at 100% when I arrived at work.

But again, cannabis being legal or illegal doesn't have too much to do with this. I can go to CVS and buy all sorts of cold medicines and sleeping pills that would make me a very dangerous operator of heavy equipment.

Let alone the literally thousands of prescription meds that can affect people's alertness and coordination.

Ultimately it comes down to the quality of the employee and their sense of responsibility for their family, co-workers, customers and boss -- all these people are depending on them to be sober and do their job safely.

I think for heavy equipment operators, or bus drivers or pilots, drug testing makes a lot of sense -- and not just pre-employment testing but random on the job testing.

However, drug testing for most employees -- sales reps, graphic designers, writers, office clerks, janitors -- that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Ridding your office of people who smoke pot probably won't make you a more productive workplace -- and in some businesses it means you won't get applications from some of the most creative, talented people -- those people are going to go to your competitors and make a lot of money for THEM.

And some of those people aren't even pot smokers, but they won't work for a company that does drug testing. Blame it on millennials but it is the reality in a lot of businesses. If millennials don't want to work for your company, you're in trouble.

People who have never spent time around pot smokers tend to only think of the Cheech and Chong stereotype. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people who fit the stereotype. But there are many, many more who do not -- I know a lot of pot smokers who are pretty much model citizens, pillars of of their communities and leaders in their work places. You would never know these people light up after they put their kids to bed.

Consider California. It's a pot smoker's paradise, has been for 15 years now. Even before legalization, you go to a doctor, say you have a headache, and you would get a medical card and the right to order up pot deliveries as easy as ordering a pizza.

If there was anyplace where widespread pot use would have a negative impact on productivity, you'd figure it would be Cali. But instead, Cali has BY FAR the most dynamic economy in the nation. Cali creates more jobs than every red state put together.

That's not scientific evidence of anything, but I do think it is telling you that pot smoking and capitalism actually get along pretty well together.

See, I know a guy that has a construction company. One of his guys, that was known to smoke every weekend and sometimes in between, fell 12' and had a piece of rebar pierce is his left lung. Fortunately he made a full recovery.

However, OSHA fined the owner and the company had a higher worker's comp rate for an extended period of time, I believe two years. If the worker had injured another worker, my friend and his company would likely have faced a major lawsuit.

So if one eats a wonder browny on Sunday afternoon that has the equivalence of four joints, how long is it before he/she is safe to drive a car, operate heavy equipment, do surgery, fly a plane or any other of the complex things people do? Who has the liability when one violates whatever standards that are established? How expensive is it to regularly test employees? What indications are there to justify testing an employee? How many times can you test a person before they claim harassment or some other offense?
 
I think this is a very valid question. If I were operating a bulldozer on a Monday morning I would not be eating a pot brownie Sunday after dinner -- nor would I be drinking a lot of bourbon Sunday night. I would be making sure I got good sleep and was at 100% when I arrived at work.

But again, cannabis being legal or illegal doesn't have too much to do with this. I can go to CVS and buy all sorts of cold medicines and sleeping pills that would make me a very dangerous operator of heavy equipment.

Let alone the literally thousands of prescription meds that can affect people's alertness and coordination.

Ultimately it comes down to the quality of the employee and their sense of responsibility for their family, co-workers, customers and boss -- all these people are depending on them to be sober and do their job safely.

I think for heavy equipment operators, or bus drivers or pilots, drug testing makes a lot of sense -- and not just pre-employment testing but random on the job testing.

However, drug testing for most employees -- sales reps, graphic designers, writers, office clerks, janitors -- that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Ridding your office of people who smoke pot probably won't make you a more productive workplace -- and in some businesses it means you won't get applications from some of the most creative, talented people -- those people are going to go to your competitors and make a lot of money for THEM.

And some of those people aren't even pot smokers, but they won't work for a company that does drug testing. Blame it on millennials but it is the reality in a lot of businesses. If millennials don't want to work for your company, you're in trouble.

People who have never spent time around pot smokers tend to only think of the Cheech and Chong stereotype. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of people who fit the stereotype. But there are many, many more who do not -- I know a lot of pot smokers who are pretty much model citizens, pillars of of their communities and leaders in their work places. You would never know these people light up after they put their kids to bed.

Consider California. It's a pot smoker's paradise, has been for 15 years now. Even before legalization, you go to a doctor, say you have a headache, and you would get a medical card and the right to order up pot deliveries as easy as ordering a pizza.

If there was anyplace where widespread pot use would have a negative impact on productivity, you'd figure it would be Cali. But instead, Cali has BY FAR the most dynamic economy in the nation. Cali creates more jobs than every red state put together.

That's not scientific evidence of anything, but I do think it is telling you that pot smoking and capitalism actually get along pretty well together.

Good post.
I especially agree about not drug testing Graphic Designers.;)
If Businesses really want a more productive workplace block the internet:D
 
Re the traffic safety data, another complication is that in states that have legalized, marijuana often ends up substituting for alcohol. Five years ago a college student might get behind the wheel of a car with 5 beers and a few shots in his belly. Now maybe he smoked a lot of weed instead. He still shouldn't be driving, maybe he still nods off and drives into a tree -- but pot gets blamed for the accident instead of alcohol.

I do think it's fair to say that in states that have legalized, there has not been the increase in traffic accidents and crime that was predicted by all the War on Drugs types. It doesn't seem to have a whole lot of effect on public safety, except that public safety resources can be used to go after violent crime (or intoxicated drivers) instead of throwing people in jail for smoking a joint. Society gets tax money and some economic benefit instead of spending a lot of tax money jailing people over weed.
 
Society gets tax money and some economic benefit instead of spending a lot of tax money jailing people over weed.

Jailing people is a huge private interest. These people were sent to jail so certain people could profit; not actually rehabilitation to return to society.
 
Medical marijuana may increase productivity in older adults, Johns Hopkins study suggests
https://www.wcpo.com/news/national/...-in-older-adults-johns-hopkins-study-suggests


Just released Lancet article on marijuana use and psychosis;

The study found that those who used pot daily were three times more likely to have a psychotic episode compared with someone who never used the drug.


Those who started using cannabis at 15 or younger had a slightly more elevated risk than those who started using in later years.


Use of high-potency weed almost doubled the odds of having psychosis compared with someone who had never smoked weed, explains Di Forti.


And for those who used high-potency pot on a daily basis, the risk of psychosis was even greater — four times greater than those who had never used.
 
I am happy they are banning smoking in prison. Generates a lot of health issues taxpayers have to pay in higher medical expenses. And tobacco is a major currency in prison under ground economies so that is another reason to ban it.

As for legalizing recreational pot.....stupid idea. We don't know enough about it. What levels of THC are enough to cause cognitive issues? What is acceptable in driving DUI? I hear that traffic accidents are up in Colorado..is it related to THC use?

What is the penetration into high schools/middle schools in Co or other states that have legalized it? How children are now using? How many are getting it from older siblings or friends?

What about work related safety issues....THC stays in the system much longer than alcohol. I can have a six pack on Sunday watching sports and be at zero BAL by Monday morning. Not true for THC. If I have an employee that smokes several joints, or ingests it, what is the safe level for him to work on a dangerous construction site or drive trucks or forklifts? Who is liable if a worker that has residual THC in his/her system and causes a death on the job? How do I make sure that employees have THC at or below acceptable levels in their system?

Would you want your surgeon to get high on weekends and the operate on you on Monday?

We have enough problems in our workforce, lets not add another.
Here are studies from Colorado.
https://www.rmhidta.org/html/FINAL 2017 Legalization of Marijuana in Colorado The Impact.pdf

and here is an update

https://rmhidta.org/files/D2DF/FINAL- Volume 5 UPDATE 2018.pdf
 
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And well, shucks, thanks to every one that pointed out that there are other causes of bad things happenin' to folks. Never coulda guessed that! Gollllllyyy!!!
What you're missing in that argument because you're too busy mocking it is that all the "other causes of bad things happenin' to folks" are not dealt with as a criminal issue requiring fines and imprisonment while recreational marijuana currently is. Recreational consumption of alcohol and recreational consumption of tobacco are legal, while the list of horribles that flow from those two things--including hundreds of thousands of deaths every year--is much longer than the list of horribles associated with marijuana. Pointing out that some behaviors with documented fatal consequences are addressed first and foremost as public health issues while other behaviors far less injurious to the public in the aggregate are treated solely as criminal issues and advocating for more consistent approaches is a perfectly valid argument.
 
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