OT: In no surprise Dustin Johnson chases Saudi cash

Obliviax

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I don't think we disagree. but the article threw in too much politics against the Saudi's so an obvious agenda. And i also think the author underestimates the money that the crown prince has to spend. For certain, if the LIV has zero viewers and is a joke 3 or 4 years from now then it will be stopped. But this author is implying that it will blow up sooner rather than later. What i am saying is that the crown prince can bankroll this as long as he wants and what the crown prince objectives are in doing this golf league are sort of unknown. I don't see the LIV as something the crown prince thinks is going to make him big money, he is doing this probably mainly for prestige and something else we don't know about.
Agreed. That is the PGA/media propaganda. Brandel Chamblee has been on fire calling these guys out for accepting "blood money". Over the top considering, it came out that the CIA was trying to assassinate Julian Assange.
 
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The Spin Meister

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An altered state
Agreed. That is the PGA/media propaganda. Brandel Chamblee has been on fire calling these guys out for accepting "blood money". Over the top considering, it came out that the CIA was trying to assassinate Julian Assange.
Yet the NBA embraces China. As does tennis. And others.

If only the Saudis had 1.5 billion people.
 
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maypole

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Agreed. That is the PGA/media propaganda. Brandel Chamblee has been on fire calling these guys out for accepting "blood money".
Not surprising that a corporate asskissing philistine like you defends blood money and Assange.
 

roswelllion

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"Being poor is not having too little, it is wanting more." - Seneca
We should send this to the CEO’s of Apple and every other company who has outsourced to China and before you guys inferring China isn’t worse than Saudi Arabia who sucks ( more for 9/11 than the journalist ) they leaked a virus that killed millions worldwide and have taken 0 responsibility.
 
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lowhandicapper

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That’s a great line. Why have I not heard it before?
Because economic prosperity almost solely relies on the public's want for things they don't actually need. So it helps no entity to push concepts like this out in order to obtain some type of profit.
The concept of "less" doesn't fit into many mainstream marketing concepts. Which are meant to make you want something that probably isn't all that helpful to you or necessary.
It leads to the great imbalance in our society, such as people who do banking or sell insurance making way more governmental credits (money) than people who nurse or teach or do social work in society. It's quite simply an inversion of rational thought on an earthly level, based solely on the want to accumulate items or credits. Those greenbacks certainly can alter the mind of homo sapiens.
If you want to know what the greatest destroyer of society is, it's old men who sit on boards and direct companies to move their factory from Monongahela to Mexico in order to save a buck for the company while disenfranchising the entire low skilled workforce of such areas because they can pay someone 6 bucks an hour instead of 15 bucks an hour. It economically cripples entire areas or towns, all because some other place will package the dog food, just a little cheaper. Nobody wants to invest in their workforce anymore, just in their own business to facilitate bigger net profits or increased dividends for the "owners." Investing in the community is spending $500 on a sign at the little league field as opposed to investing in the fabric of the families that work for them, it's a joke. It's been a long slow process for the last 40 years but it's almost over. People have worked really hard to make this happen. This ain't right or left, it's greed.
 
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The Spin Meister

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Because economic prosperity almost solely relies on the public's want for things they don't actually need. So it helps no entity to push concepts like this out in order to obtain some type of profit.
The concept of "less" doesn't fit into many mainstream marketing concepts. Which are meant to make you want something that probably isn't all that helpful to you or necessary.
It leads to the great imbalance in our society, such as people who do banking or sell insurance making way more governmental credits (money) than people who nurse or teach or do social work in society. It's quite simply an inversion of rational thought on an earthly level, based solely on the want to accumulate items or credits. Those greenbacks certainly can alter the mind of homo sapiens.
If you want to know what the greatest destroyer of society is, it's old men who sit on boards and direct companies to move their factory from Monongahela to Mexico in order to save a buck for the company while disenfranchising the entire low skilled workforce of such areas because they can pay someone 6 bucks an hour instead of 15 bucks an hour. It economically cripples entire areas or towns, all because some other place will package the dog food, just a little cheaper. Nobody wants to invest in their workforce anymore, just in their own business to facilitate bigger net profits or increased dividends for the "owners." Investing in the community is spending $500 on a sign at the little league field as opposed to investing in the fabric of the families that work for them, it's a joke. It's been a long slow process for the last 40 years but it's almost over. People have worked really hard to make this happen. This ain't right or left, it's greed.
Agreed wholeheartedly with first half. But have some issues with the second half. I agree that outsourcing all our jobs was incredibly stupid but for many companies there was little choice. When OPEC formed and jacked up oil prices the auto industry died because of foreign cars being imported. That destroyed the steel industry which hurt many suppliers and more. Companies had to compete with foreign imports or die. And they had little choice other than foreign in based manufacturing. (You can add in massive regulations , unions, taxation, and more).

That set the tone that others followed. It became the economic standard to base most manufacturing out of country.

Suppose we could have and perhaps should have imposed tariffs but tariffs come with their own huge costs. There are not any easy answers.
 

roswelllion

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Well I agree and disagree with both of you. I spent my whole work life in the auto industry and started in the mid seventies. Spin is correct, the oil crisis of the seventies started the erosion of the auto industry. However the foreign car companies built a high quality car which ultimately forced the US companies to improve. Prior to that the unions would ask for benefits the companies would after a fight give them benefits and in order to pay for those benefits the companies would cut back on quality.
When your cost of labor is double the competition it becomes very hard to maintain a high quality product. You can blame the old guy sitting in the corner office for being greedy but the truth is there aren't many examples of unionized business not going bk or near bk in this global economy. If it was just one business you could say their were dumb or greedy executives running them, but you had the steel industry, the auto industry, the clothing industry, the textile industry, the appliance industry all full of bankruptcies. One thing that makes the US unique is our lack of nationalism toward our product. Whether it is tarriffs or just nationalism if you live in Sweden people drive Swedish cars, France, french cars, Italy, Italian cars. Japan, Japanese cars. In the US, all brands. For a consumer that is great, for a worker at a US plant not so much.
Now add on automation and it is another dagger in the heart of the blue collar work force.

So enjoy the 4th. Celebrate our liberty and try to understand both sides. These are really fairly complex issues and there is hardly ever a clear cut "bad guy".
 

bvillebaron

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Additionally, what has helped create the LIV is the fact all the majors are run by organizations other than the PGA Tour. Until the tournament committees at Augusta National, the R&A, The USGA & PGA of America (yes, the PGA of America is a completely different organization than the Tour, they just share a few letters in their name) say we are going to suspend players not in good standing with the PGA Tour from competing in our tournament you may see players continue to toe that line in hopes of a big LIV payday.

If Fred Ridley comes out tomorrow and says no player will be invited to the Masters that is not in good standing with the PGA Tour or an amateur, you will see a major change in who is going to LIV. You might even see players resign from LIV.
Don’t bet on it. I think Monagan’s scorched earth approach to LIV will backfire in the long run.
 
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roswelllion

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David Feherty is leaving NBC for LIV tour. I love Feherty. Sad.

I enjoy LIV and I like Feherty so bring it on. Interesting i watch some golf but am not in front of the TV for hours every weekend except majors. I doubt if I would even watch the LIV if it weren't for hypocrites complaining about it and arrogance of the PGA. Now i find myself enjoying it. I would rather watch a LIV event than the Caterpillar Classic from bumfxxk Nebraska.
 
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Obliviax

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wow. according to the Daily Mail, here is the next group leaving. Most are not American golfers. The ones that are have been on the downside of their careers (for the most part)

  • Cameron Smith #2 world ranking
  • Hideki Matsuyama, 14
  • Tommy Fleetwood, 26
  • Marc Leishman 57
  • Bubba Watson, 84
  • Henrik Stenson, 171
 

Cletus11

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wow. according to the Daily Mail, here is the next group leaving. Most are not American golfers. The ones that are have been on the downside of their careers (for the most part)

  • Cameron Smith #2 world ranking
  • Hideki Matsuyama, 14
  • Tommy Fleetwood, 26
  • Marc Leishman 57
  • Bubba Watson, 84
  • Henrik Stenson, 171

huge play in getting Smith and Matsuyama as those two guys are legit in their prime right now. the rest of that list is downside of career guys but still 'big names' that help fill out the field with players that the general public and golfing community will know. And again, the more players that continue to hop over to the LIV tour, the more easy it is for other players to move over. When Smith and Hideki go over, that gives some cover for some of the other younger up and coming USA golfers to also take a much harder look.

PGA has to in semi-panic mode with this news.
 

Obliviax

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huge play in getting Smith and Matsuyama as those two guys are legit in their prime right now. the rest of that list is downside of career guys but still 'big names' that help fill out the field with players that the general public and golfing community will know. And again, the more players that continue to hop over to the LIV tour, the more easy it is for other players to move over. When Smith and Hideki go over, that gives some cover for some of the other younger up and coming USA golfers to also take a much harder look.

PGA has to in semi-panic mode with this news.
Agreed. But most of these players made their bones on the PGA tour. It will be interesting to see how the sponsors react (Ping, Titleist, etc.). So it is really foreign players that went on the PGA tour to start their careers to establish themselves or USA players that are on the downside.

Can a young up-and-coming player go to LIV and carve out a long-lasting career? That is going to be the real question. I can't believe LIV can sustain this kind of give-away if they can't develop players.

It is hard to blame the players, like Phil or Bubba. Your future is in the past. yet, someone is willing to fork out $100m dollars. I can tell you what I'd do.
 

Chickenman Testa

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huge play in getting Smith and Matsuyama as those two guys are legit in their prime right now. the rest of that list is downside of career guys but still 'big names' that help fill out the field with players that the general public and golfing community will know. And again, the more players that continue to hop over to the LIV tour, the more easy it is for other players to move over. When Smith and Hideki go over, that gives some cover for some of the other younger up and coming USA golfers to also take a much harder look.

PGA has to in semi-panic mode with this news.
Yeah, verging on panic mode. If the PGA and Euro Tour can’t do more than withhold Ryder Cup spots - that is, these rebels can still compete for majors - the dam is going to break
 
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roswelllion

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Agreed. But most of these players made their bones on the PGA tour. It will be interesting to see how the sponsors react (Ping, Titleist, etc.). So it is really foreign players that went on the PGA tour to start their careers to establish themselves or USA players that are on the downside.

Can a young up-and-coming player go to LIV and carve out a long-lasting career? That is going to be the real question. I can't believe LIV can sustain this kind of give-away if they can't develop players.

It is hard to blame the players, like Phil or Bubba. Your future is in the past. yet, someone is willing to fork out $100m dollars. I can tell you what I'd do.
I think in large part it depends on how much "guaranteed money these guys get. As long as you get one nice check to sign up there isn't much downside. Either LIV continues to pay stupid money or it folds. The PGA would be beyond dumb not to welcome these guys back. We are not far from the PGA tour being Rory, JT Spieth and Rahm. Obviously a huge overstatement but seriously does Patrick Cantlay excite anyone?
 
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Texas Lion

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I think in large part it depends on how much "guaranteed money these guys get. As long as you get one nice check to sign up there isn't much downside. Either LIV continues to pay stupid money or it folds. The PGA would be beyond dumb not to welcome these guys back. We are not far from the PGA tour being Rory, JT Spieth and Rahm. Obviously a huge overstatement but seriously does Patrick Cantlay excite anyone?
Not sure anyone but Tiger excites anyone. Those you just mentioned are good and the everyday golfer will watch them, but nobody is turning on a tv to see them.
 

Relayer

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Yeah, verging on panic mode. If the PGA and Euro Tour can’t do more than withhold Ryder Cup spots - that is, these rebels can still compete for majors - the dam is going to break
The PGA Tour does not run the Ryder Cup, the PGA of America does. We should get an indication of their RC actions when we see how they handle the PGA Championship next May.

The PGA Tour does run the President's Cup and they have to be sweating right now. Lose Cam Smith and that's 3 of the top International players gone (Ancer and Oosty too). Considering the US team never loses, not sure how this event even survives. The folks down at Quail Hollow have to be very nervous right now.
 

Obliviax

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I think in large part it depends on how much "guaranteed money these guys get. As long as you get one nice check to sign up there isn't much downside. Either LIV continues to pay stupid money or it folds. The PGA would be beyond dumb not to welcome these guys back. We are not far from the PGA tour being Rory, JT Spieth and Rahm. Obviously a huge overstatement but seriously does Patrick Cantlay excite anyone?
agree but we also have to see how much guaranteed money the Saudis are willing to fork out. I don't have a lot of interest in LIV but I don't have a lot of interest in the John Deere Classic either. Many of these big-name players don't play in the secondary events either. The only real good golf outside the majors are the Arnold Palmer Invitational, The Memorial, the AT&T (Pebble Beach), and The Players Championship. I might throw in an early season 'ship at Hawaii (Kapalua) which kind of ushers in the season.
 
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roswelllion

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Not sure anyone but Tiger excites anyone. Those you just mentioned are good and the everyday golfer will watch them, but nobody is turning on a tv to see them.

agree but we also have to see how much guaranteed money the Saudis are willing to fork out. I don't have a lot of interest in LIV but I don't have a lot of interest in the John Deere Classic either. Many of these big-name players don't play in the secondary events either. The only real good golf outside the majors are the Arnold Palmer Invitational, The Memorial, the AT&T (Pebble Beach), and The Players Championship. I might throw in an early season 'ship at Hawaii (Kapalua) which kind of ushers in the season.
Agree completely but I thought the PGA required a certain number of the 2nd/3rd tier events be played in. That was one of the big beefs the players had. Too long of a season.
 
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Obliviax

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Agree completely but I thought the PGA required a certain number of the 2nd/3rd tier events be played in. That was one of the big beefs the players had. Too long of a season.
yep..patrick reed used that as his reasoning for joining LIV. The PGA requires minimum events. The FedEx cup points are awarded for events. So the PGA forces a player to play a lot of events. It becomes a problem if you get injured or have a family emergency of some type. He said he missed the birth of one of his kids. He suggested a lot of players struggle with the extensive life on the road.
 

DandyDonII

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agree but we also have to see how much guaranteed money the Saudis are willing to fork out. I don't have a lot of interest in LIV but I don't have a lot of interest in the John Deere Classic either. Many of these big-name players don't play in the secondary events either. The only real good golf outside the majors are the Arnold Palmer Invitational, The Memorial, the AT&T (Pebble Beach), and The Players Championship. I might throw in an early season 'ship at Hawaii (Kapalua) which kind of ushers in the season.
Yeah, Deere Classic, American Express, Rocket Mortgage (whatever tournament is this week), the Fall series etc.....
 

Texas Lion

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Yeah, Deere Classic, American Express, Rocket Mortgage (whatever tournament is this week), the Fall series etc.....
The PGATour.com Power ranking for this week are (1-5):

Adam Svenson
Davis Riley
Cam Davis
Adam Hadwin
Maverick McNealy

Who in the hell is going to turn that on?
 

DandyDonII

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Not sure anyone but Tiger excites anyone. Those you just mentioned are good and the everyday golfer will watch them, but nobody is turning on a tv to see them.
you are right that no one but Tiger excites the non golfer crowd. However, there are a lot of us who watch if a player that interests us is in contention or just shown a lot.

For instance, Jordan Spieth. It seems that Espn gets it, they tend to feature him in their "featured groups" broadcasts. However, NBC and CBS have tended to miss this. It was like pulling teeth to see a Spieth shot on Friday, Saturday and at least early Sunday (I had to leave so I couldn't watch after the leaders got done with the 4th or 5th hole).....On Friday, I had to watch Tiger on the 18th tee for about 10 minutes before he hit, then watch him walk up fairway, then hit onto green, two putt for par, walk over to scorers table, go to commercial, and during that entire time i think they showed Rory and whoever was teeing off with him hit their drives on 1 with no other golf shown (Spieth was playing the Road Hole and never got to see a shot).
 

Cletus11

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yep..patrick reed used that as his reasoning for joining LIV. The PGA requires minimum events. The FedEx cup points are awarded for events. So the PGA forces a player to play a lot of events. It becomes a problem if you get injured or have a family emergency of some type. He said he missed the birth of one of his kids. He suggested a lot of players struggle with the extensive life on the road.
Cry me a river there. I mean pro athletes in almost all sports are on the road all the time. Golf is no worse the MLB, NBA, NHL. Maybe the NFL is better since they only travel for games mainly, but a lot of those guys are traded so often that their family doesn't even live in the same city many times and the player ends up getting an apartment local to where they are playing.

And if Reed missed his kids birth for a minor event, that doesn't make sense. Understand if you have to play in X amount of minor events, but if Reed knew his wife was pregnant, then don't schedule your minor events around when the birth is supposed to take place, so that story holds no water.

So I don't fault the PGA for saying you have to play in X minor events as that is how the money is made to be able to grow the sport and get bigger TV revenue for bigger purses, etc...I am sure that the PGA could have done some things better, but Patrick Reed is pretty much known as a lying a$$hole, so don't believe much what comes out of his mouth.
 
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Cletus11

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The PGATour.com Power ranking for this week are (1-5):

Adam Svenson
Davis Riley
Cam Davis
Adam Hadwin
Maverick McNealy

Who in the hell is going to turn that on?
You do know that nobody knew who most golfers were before they starting winning events on the tour. I mean the way you become famous is to win events. Before you win events, you are a nobody in almost all cases.
 

Texas Lion

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Cry me a river there. I mean pro athletes in almost all sports are on the road all the time. Golf is no worse the MLB, NBA, NHL. Maybe the NFL is better since they only travel for games mainly, but a lot of those guys are traded so often that their family doesn't even live in the same city many times and the player ends up getting an apartment local to where they are playing.

And if Reed missed his kids birth for a minor event, that doesn't make sense. Understand if you have to play in X amount of minor events, but if Reed knew his wife was pregnant, then don't schedule your minor events around when the birth is supposed to take place, so that story holds no water.

So I don't fault the PGA for saying you have to play in X minor events as that is how the money is made to be able to grow the sport and get bigger TV revenue for bigger purses, etc...I am sure that the PGA could have done some things better, but Patrick Reed is pretty much known as a lying a$$hole, so don't believe much what comes out of his mouth.
Golf is no worse???

1. Golf season is October-October with maybe december off.
2. Not sure the Pittsburgh Steelers make their players pay for travel, lodging, and food?
3. Think the Lakers make LeBron pay for the support staff?

Anyone sitting on their high horse need to stop with the bs. If you are really mad, don't drive anymore, your gas comes from Saudi's. Upset about the atrocities of governments? Give up your IPhone, they are from China.

Good god.
 

Texas Lion

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You do know that nobody knew who most golfers were before they starting winning events on the tour. I mean the way you become famous is to win events. Before you win events, you are a nobody in almost all cases.
I can agree with that....now name a few......be careful though, golf has about 5 stars and I believe all 5 were big time before the tour. For every Tiger there are 1,000 Rich Beams.
 

Obliviax

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Cry me a river there. I mean pro athletes in almost all sports are on the road all the time. Golf is no worse the MLB, NBA, NHL. Maybe the NFL is better since they only travel for games mainly, but a lot of those guys are traded so often that their family doesn't even live in the same city many times and the player ends up getting an apartment local to where they are playing.

And if Reed missed his kids birth for a minor event, that doesn't make sense. Understand if you have to play in X amount of minor events, but if Reed knew his wife was pregnant, then don't schedule your minor events around when the birth is supposed to take place, so that story holds no water.

So I don't fault the PGA for saying you have to play in X minor events as that is how the money is made to be able to grow the sport and get bigger TV revenue for bigger purses, etc...I am sure that the PGA could have done some things better, but Patrick Reed is pretty much known as a lying a$$hole, so don't believe much what comes out of his mouth.
fair enough...but nba players don't have options. These guys did and took them. The PGA is going to have to negotiate something different. The PGA tried to strong-arm players (this new format where all four majors are played before the middle of July is weak sauce IMHO).
 
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Texas Lion

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fair enough...but nba players don't have options. These guys did and took them. The PGA is going to have to negotiate something different. The PGA tried to strong-arm players (this new format where all four majors are played before the middle of July is weak sauce IMHO).
Playing all the majors before the end of july allowed them to move their playoffs up and out of the way of football season.
 

Obliviax

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Playing all the majors before the end of july allowed them to move their playoffs up and out of the way of football season.
yep....I know the reasons but it really screwed up the player's scheduling and that is a big reason why LIV has life. years ago, we had the "world series of golf" which was a season-ending event at Firestone (the fifth major) and season ender in colder climates. Then it became a short series.
 

Cletus11

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Golf is no worse???

1. Golf season is October-October with maybe december off.
2. Not sure the Pittsburgh Steelers make their players pay for travel, lodging, and food?
3. Think the Lakers make LeBron pay for the support staff?

Anyone sitting on their high horse need to stop with the bs. If you are really mad, don't drive anymore, your gas comes from Saudi's. Upset about the atrocities of governments? Give up your IPhone, they are from China.

Good god.
I am confused about what your point is. They are professional golfers, most professional athletes have significant travel schedules. Comparing golfers to LeBron, the highest pay athlete in the world is also a false comparison. And most golfers don't play October to October except the lower end guys who are playing in a lot of the minor events to try and survive as a professional golfer and make some money. The better players are not playing nearly that many tournaments. And other if you are a teacher, most people work October to October.

I am not going to feel bad about golfers and the life they live, like any profession if you don't like it then go work at Amazon for $20 per hour. And at the same time, the LIV came along and are basically telling these golfers that they can make same or more money without playing in as many tourneys so capitalism and choice are now there. Question will be is how long with the Saudi's sponsor a league that makes them no money.

I am not upset with the PGA or the LIV tour. Just not going to feel bad for professional golfers about their travel schedule and trying to gain sympathy on moving to the LIV tour. Let's be real, they are moving to the LIV tour as they will make more money while playing less golf, plain and simple.
 

Obliviax

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I am confused about what your point is. They are professional golfers, most professional athletes have significant travel schedules. Comparing golfers to LeBron, the highest pay athlete in the world is also a false comparison. And most golfers don't play October to October except the lower end guys who are playing in a lot of the minor events to try and survive as a professional golfer and make some money. The better players are not playing nearly that many tournaments. And other if you are a teacher, most people work October to October.

I am not going to feel bad about golfers and the life they live, like any profession if you don't like it then go work at Amazon for $20 per hour. And at the same time, the LIV came along and are basically telling these golfers that they can make same or more money without playing in as many tourneys so capitalism and choice are now there. Question will be is how long with the Saudi's sponsor a league that makes them no money.

I am not upset with the PGA or the LIV tour. Just not going to feel bad for professional golfers about their travel schedule and trying to gain sympathy on moving to the LIV tour. Let's be real, they are moving to the LIV tour as they will make more money while playing less golf, plain and simple.
you also have to consider that they don't have "home games". leBron plays in LA for half his schedule and all of training camp. While they take road trips swings, they typically aren't away from home for more than a week at a time.

But I do agree with your greater point. If you are making $20m a year, there isn't much to moan about. But he had options to get the money AND a better personal life. I can't complain that he is taking that option.
 

Cletus11

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you also have to consider that they don't have "home games". leBron plays in LA for half his schedule and all of training camp. While they take road trips swings, they typically aren't away from home for more than a week at a time.

But I do agree with your greater point. If you are making $20m a year, there isn't much to moan about. But he had options to get the money AND a better personal life. I can't complain that he is taking that option.
I don't hold any ill will towards any golfers moving to LIV tour. Just don't give me a sob story. And I think the smear campaign by the PGA didn't do them any good and backfired some. PGA now has competition, they will change or they will get beat by LIV and become a minor tour.