OT/FC: Game of Thrones S5E4 Discussion ***SPOILERS***

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Another new episode and with it more of our heroes/villains setting the stage for bigger and better things down the road. No time for a proper re-cap, but there are few items I'd like to put out there for discussion...

***SPOILERS***

1. Cersei may not be a great leader, but she's pretty great at consolidating power (and leveraging family - in this case Mace's life - for power gain over Margaery). Sending Mace Tyrell (and Ser Meryn Trent) off to Braavos not only gives her more power, but also puts someone on Arya's 'list' right in her backyard. Arresting Loras was also a pretty bold move and she's dead set on taking Margaery down it seems. Will Tommen put up with it? In any event, arming the Faith Militant seems like it's going to bite her in the ass down the road; no way she can control them.

2. Jon Snow proves again he knows nothing and refuses Melissandre's sexual advances so he can stay 'faithful' to his dead love, Ygritte. Melissandre is quick to point out how dumb that is, but lets him slide nonetheless. Also, by dropping in Ygritte's 'you know nothing Jon Snow' line in at the end shows she still has the upper hand. At some point, I think she'll get her man. The other great scene here is Stannis and his daughter - easy to root for that guy now, right?

3. Tyrion and Jorah are an interesting duo. Best line of the night: 'What a waste of a good kidnapping!'. No kidding - Jorah is all instinct which is why he's been in Khaleesi's friend zone the past few years. Hoping this boat ride doesn't last too much longer - Tyrion and Dany is going to be awesome to watch.

4. Jaime and Bronn - these guys should have their own show. The fight against the Dornish patrol was well done and these two have great chemistry. Perfect for each other actually. The introduction of the Sand Snakes was a bit bizarre (they just hang out in the desert all day?) but cool to finally see them. I like where this story is going....

5. So, the big event of the night was the Sons of the Harpy ambushing a gaggle of Unsullied and for the most part, massacring them. This leads me to my one, huge, giant, colossal complaint - how on earth did a handful of rich slave owners murder a dozen or so of the best fighting men in the kingdom??? I get they were probably outnumbered 2-1, but still - all these guys do is fight. I guess one could say the closed quarters made their spears a bit less effective, but still. In the end, the Harpies wipe out all, including Ser Barriston Selmy (not nearly as impressive as one would think given how much we've heard about him), but Grey Worm. This makes things really interesting for Dany - one of her personal inner circle has been murdered, and the other gravely injured - how will she react?? Is she going to let the dragons out to once again assume authority?? Previews for next week suggest we see (at least one) dragons over Mereen - was it Drogon, or one of the others?

What did everyone think? I like the pace with which things are going now and you can see some great stuff on the horizon. For book readers, I think we have the most drastic change to the story in that Selmy dies in this episode. I think it was probably necessary given Tyrion's impending arrival, but still worth noting.

 

[canuckhal]

Best episode in a while, but so far a very strong season. Without so many characters, it is easier to follow. Tommen is a weak ass king and he is in danger of being taken out before Jamie returns. The question is what will happen to Baelish if and when he arrives back at King's Landing. Strange that he didn't know his pot of gold has been shut down. The Master may have been beaten temporarily by Cersei. We know her day is coming as she has released her own dragons.

 

[Littlefinger]

Not too happy about Ser Barriston's death.

 

[rudedude]

 

[Littlefinger]

Yes.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Not too happy about Ser Barriston's death.

New favorite poster.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Yes plz!!

 

[Littlefinger]

New favorite poster.

 

[rjg82]

Great post and thank you. But I'm still trying to figure out how the Sparrows fit into all of this.

 

[cronk]

I am guessing we will find out the Harpies are not the land/slave owners but have actually hired the pit fighters to be behind the masks

Barristan took out 14 Harpies before getting slashed in the back when a Harpy came out of a tunnel he couldn't possibly have seen coming, that weakened him enough for the others to finally get him

I agree 100% on the Unsullied performance out there

 

[cronk]

Great post and thank you. But I'm still trying to figure out how the Sparrows fit into all of this.

oh the payoff to this will be great and must see TV!

there are also some interesting theories out there that the Sparrows are not exactly what they seem as well...but I doubt the tv series gets into that, I think the books though will

 

[wbcincy]

I've heard people saying that the Unsullied (1) can't fight as well in close quarters because they've been trained almost exclusively on fighting w/ large spears in open spaces, and (2) they aren't just fighting against average folks, but rather the very pit fighters who have had their sport taken away by Dany.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I am guessing we will find out the Harpies are not the land/slave owners but have actually hired the pit fighters to be behind the masks

Barristan took out 14 Harpies before getting slashed in the back when a Harpy came out of a tunnel he couldn't possibly have seen coming, that weakened him enough for the others to finally get him

I agree 100% on the Unsullied performance out there

Well, if the Harpies are pit fighters, that changes things a bit. I still think the dozen or so Unsullied should have been able to take them down, close quarters or not, and upon second viewing Selmy's performance is admirable given his advanced age.

I've heard people saying that the Unsullied (1) can't fight as well in close quarters because they've been trained almost exclusively on fighting w/ large spears in open spaces, and (2) they aren't just fighting against average folks, but rather the very pit fighters who have had their sport taken away by Dany.

Again, if they're the pit fighters, that makes things a bit easier to swallow and more interesting from a plot perspective. We know, based on previews for the show this year, they are re-opened at some point and that Jorah Mormont participates. I'm most anxious to see how Dany reacts now though given her most trusted advisor was killed. Will she lash out, literally, by releasing the dragons? Her two in captivity seem to be more receptive to her influence than Drogon - maybe she has them lay waste to her enemies?

 

[jjsocrates]

Came here for the discussion, stayed for all the awesome GIFs!

Hey, I'm finding myself able to contribute less and less to spoilers and commentaries now...the book-show continuum has been breached!

Actually, the biggest difference between the books and show to date isn't:
1) Brom & Jaime's Bromance Road Trip
2) Sir Barristan Selmy's untimely demise
3) Tyrion finding a wormhole to travel to Volantis about 800 pages quicker than expected.

but...
Sansa Stark's impending nuptials to Ramsey Bolton! In the book, Sansa is safe back in the Eyrie, while Ramsey winds up bethrothed to a Sansa look-alike that even poor old Theon can't recognize.

But I digress...here's my spoiler-hinting commentary.
- Cersei is a manipulative one, but she simply isn't as good at playing the Game as somebody else in King's Landing.
- Yes, Jon Snow's heart is in the right place, but he still knows nothing.
- Tyrion & Jorah...so how do you avoid bringing 800 pages of boring travelogue to the screen? You simply skip it all. I still have no idea what happens when Tyrion and Dani meet - hasn't been written yet. Tyrion has always survived by his wits, and if I recall, getting Jorah BACK to see Dani isn't going to be an easy task now.
-Jaime & Bron...they added a lot of this for TV, because frankly, seeing a bunch of Sand Snakes venting their venom and creating their own plots is pretty boring. Even though the Snakes are going to find there is already a Dornish plot hatching. And yes, they just hang out in the desert all day. They're not called the Sand Snakes for nothing, and Dorne is mostly desert.
- Mereen is a damn mess. Dani wanted to trying being a Queen, but what a damn mess that place is and its gonna get worse. If Dani was the woman she will be in five years, she'd take a FLAMETHROWER to this place! Nah...but it really makes you wonder why she just doesn't hop on a dragon and fly away.

 

[jjsocrates]

Great post and thank you. But I'm still trying to figure out how the Sparrows fit into all of this.

The Sparrows are nothing more than a bunch of religious zealots.

But, in my very cynical mind...religious zealots are very helpful tools in the hands of crafty politicians. Key thing to consider, is who is the craftier politician? Who was the better teacher - Tywin Lanninster or Oleanna Tyrell?

 

[jjsocrates]

We need a classic Midnighter poll on hottest GoT character. Heck, make one for the ladies too.

Maegary
Daenerys
Cersei
Ygritte
Melisandre
Sansa
Brianne (kidding, just kidding. Although she's actually pretty when not in armor)
Shea

No fair counting anybody working for Littlefinger.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Came here for the discussion, stayed for all the awesome GIFs!

Hey, I'm finding myself able to contribute less and less to spoilers and commentaries now...the book-show continuum has been breached!

Actually, the biggest difference between the books and show to date isn't:
1) Brom & Jaime's Bromance Road Trip
2) Sir Barristan Selmy's untimely demise
3) Tyrion finding a wormhole to travel to Volantis about 800 pages quicker than expected.

but...
Sansa Stark's impending nuptials to Ramsey Bolton! In the book, Sansa is safe back in the Eyrie, while Ramsey winds up bethrothed to a Sansa look-alike that even poor old Theon can't recognize.

But I digress...here's my spoiler-hinting commentary.
- Cersei is a manipulative one, but she simply isn't as good at playing the Game as somebody else in King's Landing.
- Yes, Jon Snow's heart is in the right place, but he still knows nothing.
- Tyrion & Jorah...so how do you avoid bringing 800 pages of boring travelogue to the screen? You simply skip it all. I still have no idea what happens when Tyrion and Dani meet - hasn't been written yet. Tyrion has always survived by his wits, and if I recall, getting Jorah BACK to see Dani isn't going to be an easy task now.
-Jaime & Bron...they added a lot of this for TV, because frankly, seeing a bunch of Sand Snakes venting their venom and creating their own plots is pretty boring. Even though the Snakes are going to find there is already a Dornish plot hatching. And yes, they just hang out in the desert all day. They're not called the Sand Snakes for nothing, and Dorne is mostly desert.
- Mereen is a damn mess. Dani wanted to trying being a Queen, but what a damn mess that place is and its gonna get worse. If Dani was the woman she will be in five years, she'd take a FLAMETHROWER to this place! Nah...but it really makes you wonder why she just doesn't hop on a dragon and fly away.

Yes, suddenly Sansa's story is much more interesting than it used to be. I think a showdown at Winterfell is inevitable (though likely the 'big' battle we won't see until the end of the season) and it'll be fun to see how Sansa 'maneuvers' if Littlefinger isn't around to guide/protect her.

And I always love your hints - makes me think I'm on the right track!!

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

We need a classic Midnighter poll on hottest GoT character. Heck, make one for the ladies too.

Maegary
Daenerys
Cersei
Ygritte
Melisandre
Sansa
Brianne (kidding, just kidding. Although she's actually pretty when not in armor)
Shea

No fair counting anybody working for Littlefinger.

Oh, you must have missed this! I did this very poll a few weeks ago. Dany won running away (Sansa wasn't included but Ros was!).

 

[jjsocrates]

Yes, suddenly Sansa's story is much more interesting than it used to be. I think a showdown at Winterfell is inevitable (though likely the 'big' battle we won't see until the end of the season) and it'll be fun to see how Sansa 'maneuvers' if Littlefinger isn't around to guide/protect her.

And I always love your hints - makes me think I'm on the right track!!

A showdown at Winterfell? Let me give you a big spoiler/hint. Do you remember what happened when Napolean invaded Russia?

I wish Sansa grew a spine...unlike her younger sister. If she ever toughened up, she'd be an awesome character. But there's a reason everybody loves Arya...I think Sansa needs to start making a Beatrix Kiddo style Kill list too.

I don't care if the show deviates from the book either - as long as the story improves. Book 4 was a big giant Brick in between a few great books. As long as the main story stays true, I'm all for making it fun to watch

 

[cronk]

The Sparrows are nothing more than a bunch of religious zealots.

But, in my very cynical mind...religious zealots are very helpful tools in the hands of crafty politicians. Key thing to consider, is who is the craftier politician? Who was the better teacher - Tywin Lanninster or Oleanna Tyrell?

you don't believe in the Howland Reed theory then?

 

[cronk]

A showdown at Winterfell? Let me give you a big spoiler/hint. Do you remember what happened when Napolean invaded Russia?

I wish Sansa grew a spine...unlike her younger sister. If she ever toughened up, she'd be an awesome character. But there's a reason everybody loves Arya...I think Sansa needs to start making a Beatrix Kiddo style Kill list too.

I don't care if the show deviates from the book either - as long as the story improves. Book 4 was a big giant Brick in between a few great books. As long as the main story stays true, I'm all for making it fun to watch

I am on board with the theory that Sansa will replace a certain Lady in the books and lead the Great Northern Conspiracy to take back the North, makes sense to me...I am worried about Sansa and Ramsey though, will have to see how that plays out first

 

[cronk]

A showdown at Winterfell? Let me give you a big spoiler/hint. Do you remember what happened when Napolean invaded Russia?

I wish Sansa grew a spine...unlike her younger sister. If she ever toughened up, she'd be an awesome character. But there's a reason everybody loves Arya...I think Sansa needs to start making a Beatrix Kiddo style Kill list too.

I don't care if the show deviates from the book either - as long as the story improves. Book 4 was a big giant Brick in between a few great books. As long as the main story stays true, I'm all for making it fun to watch

which reminds me...where the heck are the books going to go with the Ironborn, lots of storylines out there, most of which i have no problem skipping but really want to see some of the others

speaking of Others, we are do for another visit from the White Walkers

 

[PSU.:.]

I agree Barriston scene was a little disappointing. He was considered the "greatest swordsman Westros has ever seen." I have to take an account he's like 80 yrs old and he was fighting in a closed quarters out numbered 10-1. He did kill around 10 guys though. I think if he was out in open with more room to fight he wouldn't have died. A 20 yrs younger Barriston would of slaughter them all without getting a scratch.

Daenerys's small council is growing smaller by the day. She lost 2 seasoned war veterans which will make a HUGE impact in the future. If she ever goes to Westros she will need a proven battle commander who knows the politics of Westros. Maybe Tyrion can fill the shoes.

Can we please get the dragons more involved!!!!!

 

[jjsocrates]

you don't believe in the Howland Reed theory then?

Not really. You'll eventually see the Sparows get manipulated just like any other piece on a chessboard, by someone who is better at the game.

 

[jjsocrates]

which reminds me...where the heck are the books going to go with the Ironborn, lots of storylines out there, most of which i have no problem skipping but really want to see some of the others

speaking of Others, we are do for another visit from the White Walkers

Yep, the TV show hasn't brought in the Greyjoys yet. I assume that might be taken up later, as the Dornish plot expands. It might be a good time to spring the multiple threads connecting in The Dragon Queen.

 

[jjsocrates]

Can we please get the dragons more involved!!!!!

The Dragons didn't seem too happy to see Mom after she sent them to their room with no dinner. A big question...are the Dragons too big and too wild for Dani to control? Without her dragons, she loses a big chip.

 

[cronk]

also it was so great to be FINALLY hearing about the Tourney of Harrenhal on the show, still hoping for a prequel someday where we get to see this

 

[JBDLion]

The Dragons didn't seem too happy to see Mom after she sent them to their room with no dinner. A big question...are the Dragons too big and too wild for Dani to control? Without her dragons, she loses a big chip.

Yeah, I didn't like that. Without the dragons, her story is starting to bore me (at least until Tyrion gets there). Need more dragons (even if it's just the troublemaker dragon).

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The Dragons didn't seem too happy to see Mom after she sent them to their room with no dinner. A big question...are the Dragons too big and too wild for Dani to control? Without her dragons, she loses a big chip.

True, but like Varys says, she has a lot of folks in Westeros who support her (family's) claim for the throne. Still, she does need the dragons I think and it's pretty sucky that they're mostly locked up. Worse is that Rhaegon and Viserion are locked up for something Drogon did!

As to who plays 'the game' best, I'll admit I'm not totally spoiler free - I have heard of a scene near the end of the season that will mark defeat (or so I think) for one of our players. Knowing that, it will be interesting to see how things are set up for next season....

 

[jjsocrates]

True, but like Varys says, she has a lot of folks in Westeros who support her (family's) claim for the throne. Still, she does need the dragons I think and it's pretty sucky that they're mostly locked up. Worse is that Rhaegon and Viserion are locked up for something Drogon did!

As to who plays 'the game' best, I'll admit I'm not totally spoiler free - I have heard of a scene near the end of the season that will mark defeat (or so I think) for one of our players. Knowing that, it will be interesting to see how things are set up for next season....

Well, I think its pretty clear the dragons aren't just a whoa factor, and given the Targaryen history, those three little lizards are going to come in pretty handy - most likely in an eventual battle/showdown against The White Walkers.

That scene you're referring to near the end might have something to do with a certain British actress reporting to wardrobe and hearing "Nope, you're good today." If there were videocameras in Westeros, Tyrion would be uploading to social media often on that day.

 

[m.knox]

Best episode in a while, but so far a very strong season. Without so many characters, it is easier to follow. Tommen is a weak ass king and he is in danger of being taken out before Jamie returns. The question is what will happen to Baelish if and when he arrives back at King's Landing. Strange that he didn't know his pot of gold has been shut down. The Master may have been beaten temporarily by Cersei. We know her day is coming as she has released her own dragons.

The dragons are coming next episode I think. One thing I like about this season is some highlights for the next episode are shown at the end.

Cersei's day is coming, we know that in advance, and I'm looking forward to it. I hate that character. Kudos to the actress for playing so well.

Tommen is a pussy, but as my dad once told me after my first girl dumped me, "son, men kill for pussy." Will be interesting to see if that holds true.

So far, we are 4 episodes in, and it seems to me that the focus has been on advancing the plot a bit too much. At this point, I am ready for some shock. Like Tyrion putting a bolt through his dad's heart while he took a dump, or Tyrion's "trial" by combat.....

 

[m.knox]

We need a classic Midnighter poll on hottest GoT character. Heck, make one for the ladies too.

Maegary
Daenerys
Cersei
Ygritte
Melisandre
Sansa
Brianne (kidding, just kidding. Although she's actually pretty when not in armor)
Shea

No fair counting anybody working for Littlefinger.

I'm hot for Melisandre #1, then Ygritte #2.

 

[lionroar88]

At the end of last week's episode there is a shot of Tyrion seeing a dragon and the look of utter shock, fear, dread, excitement on his face was priceless.

Maegary
Melisandre
Ygritte
Sansa
Daenerys

In that order

 

[Littlefinger]

#1

#2

Honorable Mention:

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

At the end of last week's episode there is a shot of Tyrion seeing a dragon and the look of utter shock, fear, dread, excitement on his face was priceless.

Maegary
Melisandre
Ygritte
Sansa
Daenerys

In that order

I think I went Melisandre, Margaery, Gilly (oh yeah, she was in the poll too), Cersei and Missandei.

 

[rudedude]

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

#1

#2

Honorable Mention:

 

[cronk]

for any book readers, this week's Storm of Spoilers podcast was outstanding, really set up the rest of the TV season (though one prediction they went on twitter later today and says a source from the show says it won't happen which is INTERESTING)