One-time visit; I'll just leave this here.

BHF23

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2005
99
1,069
1
I only started reading this board recently, haven't posted on it before, and probably won't again. Some might remember me from the McAndrew Board. I recognize a few of you. I had read the Freeh Report, recognized it for the garbage it was, and decided to look into it. I thought I'd take a couple weeks, see if I could figure out what really happened, and maybe write a few pages or so of analysis. Five years, two round trips from Georgia to State College and back, and over 1000 pages (about 140 of which were passed along to the Feds) later, I ended up posting a series ("Feckless") covering the trustees in place at the time because that's where the trail led me. I stopped pretty much because I had worked some with Ray Blehar in the process, and he was doing what I was doing, only better.

I was entirely apolitical until the 90s, when I became a single-issue voter against activist/corrupt judges for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. I'm pretty much still there. I'm a registered independent and honestly don't have much use for either party. I don't see things in terms of red and blue...more like black and white, right and wrong. And if I'm driving straight on "Candid," don't expect to see me make a left on "Tactful." (Barry Fenchak lite?) That "Feckless" series could have been one sentence: "Yep, Joe did it" if that's where my investigation led. I'm glad it didn't, but facts would have been facts. I've thought for a long time that the Democrat and Republican establishment are a whole lot more like each other than either of them are like you or me. I'm sure of it now.

I smelled a rat by about Page 3 of the Freeh Report (paraphrased: "We didn't talk to anybody who knew anything. Nevertheless, we're giving you a complete, comprehensive, balls on accurate account of the whole situation. Pinky swear."), and by about 7:00 a.m. the morning after the election, I got a whiff of that same aroma. So I started paying closer attention and doing some homework, reading up on laws, looking at transcripts of court cases, watching interviews and legislative hearings, etc. There's really only one point I want to make here; I'll try to do it as briefly as I can. (Too late for that, huh?)

Start with this. There are three possibilities: 1. There was no fraud in the election. (If that's your belief, you can stop reading now. Of course there was. There always is. For Pete's sake, the next honest election in Philadelphia will be the first. So just stop it.); 2. There was some fraud in the election, but not enough to change the result. (OK. I'm listening.); or 3. There was significant fraud in the election, enough to change the result. (Hey...I said I was listening. Whatta ya got?)

BIDEN 306 TRUMP 232

WISCONSIN (10 electoral votes) The Supreme Court of Wisconsin recently ruled that the drop boxes are and were illegal. Those votes alone were enough to flip Wisconsin. (Over 500,000 questionable votes in Wisconsin altogether) BIDEN 296 TRUMP 242

GEORGIA (16 electoral votes) The number of underage (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Georgia. (Over 600,000 questionable votes in Georgia altogether) BIDEN 280 TRUMP 258

ARIZONA (11 electoral votes) The number of non-citizen (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Arizona. (Over 250,000 questionable votes in Arizona altogether) BIDEN 269 TRUMP 269

NEVADA (6 electoral votes) The number of voters who (illegally) double voted were enough to flip Nevada. (Over 200,000 questionable votes in Nevada altogether) TRUMP 275 BIDEN 263

MICHIGAN (16 electoral votes) The number of (illegal) voters with no registration numbers alone were enough to flip Michigan. The number of votes processed without observation were too. (Let's be real here. There is only one reason that every one of these states has a law requiring accommodation of poll observers. And it's the same only reason that anyone would interfere with observation.) TRUMP 288 BIDEN 250

So there's a case. The numbers of illegal votes shown above in those few states would have been enough to turn the election. I stopped at the low hanging fruit and hadn't even gotten to PENNSYLVANIA (20 electoral votes; nearly 1,000,000 questionable votes) or VIRGINIA (13 electoral votes; 300,000 votes flipped from TRUMP to BIDEN at about 5:00 the morning of November 4, compromised voting machines subject to outside manipulation (the ultimate backstop; proven in Antrim County, Michigan; I witnessed with my own two eyes a Chinese hacker with access in real time during the Georgia Senate runoff), the unhealthy percentage of adjudicated ballots, vehicles full of ballots showing up in the middle of the night (Michigan), for days afterward (Arizona), or "disappearing" altogether (Pennsylvania), etc. I think you get the idea. Evidence isn't proof...the other side gets to make a case too...but it is evidence. We've been told from November 4 forward there was none. Admit it...if you saw REPUBLICAN Ruby Freeman rolling boxes out from under that table in the middle of the night in Atlanta after DEMOCRAT observers had been sent home with enough ballots to flip the election from BIDEN to TRUMP...you'd be sure there was chicanery afoot. And you'd almost certainly be right.

My point is this: When Al Gore had issues with the 2000 election, all we heard from Democrats and the media was that "every vote must count." Fair enough. And whether you believe the 2020 election was stolen or not, Trump didn't make any of this stuff up and had the right...and I would argue, the obligation...to use every legal challenge (I can discuss each one, including January 6, but I won't) available to "save democracy" by ensuring that there were good and valid answers to these concerns, and that the election had indeed, been fair. But Trump supporters have been mocked, intimidated, threatened, disbarred, and arrested, and we've all just endured a one-sided, Communist-style show trial with threatened prosecution for crying out loud, as the cherry on top...for challenging an election where there was plenty of evidence that he very well might have won. All of that is very, very dangerous...and just plain wrong. My point (finally): Whether Trump actually won the election or not, he absolutely had valid reason to believe he did, with plenty of figures to back it up. The underlying narrative was/is "The Big Lie." No one....NO ONE...can possibly be sure of that. (A buddy of mine just fact checked me on that. He says I'm good.)

Yes, Trump called Brad Raffensperger and asked/pushed him to disqualify a number of illegal votes. Illegal votes. I read the NYT article, then listened to a recording of the call. A "Time" article I read suggests the Democrats were doing some pretty intense lobbying themselves about that time. After Raffensperger tap danced around it a time or two, Georgia Governor Kemp realized he was polling slightly behind COVID-19 and hinted one night that a recount/audit might not be a bad idea. The next day, a boyfriend of his daughter was blown up in his car. Not died in a crash. Blown up. So much for the recount/audit. The investigator (FBI or GBI?) assigned to the case had a very short life span himself, meeting an unfortunate demise a couple weeks later. All coincidence, no doubt. A less than persuasive phone call. A car blowing up. Which got more attention? Which would you prefer to experience?

My interest in this is 0% Donald Trump and 100% fair and honest elections. And before I go, I'll point out that there are more than a few people out there who are pretty sure the two instances I cited above were not the only times hackers were having their way with those voting machines. Interesting that neither Democrats nor Republicans want us anywhere near them. In fact, I daresay those machines and their continued use are being better protected than Hunter Biden. (OK...if you know me at all, you know I had to do that at least once.) Wonder why that would be? I'll leave with a message for both Democrats and Republicans: Surrrre....just give me a call any time for a campaign contribution! Could be fun!

Yeah...you can look for that check in the mail.

There. I said my piece. You guys can have the last word. And if you're inclined to ignore the material and attack me personally, have at it. I'm bald and ugly too.

Thanks for listening.


SR/BHF
 
Last edited:

roswelllion

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 18, 2003
9,741
8,667
1
Well, I'm inclined to believe but that is probably because I voted for Trump not Biden. The obvious question is where do you get the data on all of these illegal double voting, underage, not US citizen's who voted? And if that is common knowledge why are we subject to "bad voting machines" and 2,000 mules? [unless the mules did all this illegal voting. the other side would say in almost every lawsuit Trump lost.
 

psuted

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Nov 26, 2010
27,764
23,316
1
I only started reading this board recently, haven't posted on it before, and probably won't again. Some might remember me from the McAndrew Board. I recognize a few of you. I had read the Freeh Report, recognized it for the garbage it was, and decided to look into it. I thought I'd take a couple weeks, see if I could figure out what really happened, and maybe write a few pages or so of analysis. Five years, two round trips from Georgia to State College and back, and over 1000 pages (about 140 of which were passed along to the Feds) later, I ended up posting a series ("Feckless") covering the trustees in place at the time because that's where the trail led me. I stopped pretty much because I had worked some with Ray Blehar in the process, and he was doing what I was doing, only better.

I was entirely apolitical until the 90s, when I became a single-issue voter against activist/corrupt judges for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. I'm pretty much still there. I'm a registered independent and honestly don't have much use for either party. I don't see things in terms of red and blue...more like black and white, right and wrong. And if I'm driving straight on "Candid," don't expect to see me make a left on "Tactful." (Barry Fenchak lite?) That "Feckless" series could have been one sentence: "Yep, Joe did it" if that's where my investigation led. I'm glad it didn't, but facts would have been facts. I've thought for a long time that the Democrat and Republican establishment are a whole lot more like each other than either of them are like you or me. I'm sure of it now.

I smelled a rat by about Page 3 of the Freeh Report (paraphrased: "We didn't talk to anybody who knew anything. Nevertheless, we're giving you a complete, comprehensive, balls on accurate account of the whole situation. Pinky swear."), and by about 7:00 a.m. the morning after the election, I got a whiff of that same aroma. So I started paying closer attention and doing some homework, reading up on laws, looking at transcripts of court cases, watching interviews and legislative hearings, etc. There's really only one point I want to make here; I'll try to do it as briefly as I can. (Too late for that, huh?)

Start with this. There are three possibilities: 1. There was no fraud in the election. (If that's your belief, you can stop reading now. Of course there was. There always is. For Pete's sake, the next honest election in Philadelphia will be the first. So just stop it.); 2. There was some fraud in the election, but not enough to change the result. (OK. I'm listening.); or 3. There was significant fraud in the election, enough to change the result. (Hey...I said I was listening. Whatta ya got?)

BIDEN 306 TRUMP 232

WISCONSIN (10 electoral votes) The Supreme Court of Wisconsin recently ruled that the drop boxes are and were illegal. Those votes alone were enough to flip Wisconsin. (Over 500,000 questionable votes in Wisconsin altogether) BIDEN 296 TRUMP 242

GEORGIA (16 electoral votes) The number of underage (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Georgia. (Over 600,000 questionable votes in Georgia altogether) BIDEN 280 TRUMP 258

ARIZONA (11 electoral votes) The number of non-citizen (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Arizona. (Over 250,000 questionable votes in Arizona altogether) BIDEN 269 TRUMP 269

NEVADA (6 electoral votes) The number of voters who (illegally) double voted were enough to flip Nevada. (Over 200,000 questionable votes in Nevada altogether) TRUMP 275 BIDEN 263

MICHIGAN (16 electoral votes) The number of (illegal) voters with no registration numbers alone were enough to flip Michigan. The number of votes processed without observation were too. (Let's be real here. There is only one reason that every one of these states has a law requiring accommodation of poll observers. And it's the same only reason that anyone would interfere with observation.) TRUMP 288 BIDEN 250

So there's a case. The numbers of illegal votes shown above in those few states would have been enough to turn the election. I stopped at the low hanging fruit and hadn't even gotten to PENNSYLVANIA (20 electoral votes; nearly 1,000,000 questionable votes) or VIRGINIA (13 electoral votes; 300,000 votes flipped from TRUMP to BIDEN at about 5:00 the morning of November 4, compromised voting machines subject to outside manipulation (the ultimate backstop; proven in Antrim County, Michigan; I witnessed with my own two eyes a Chinese hacker with access in real time during the Georgia Senate runoff), the unhealthy percentage of adjudicated ballots, vehicles full of ballots showing up in the middle of the night (Michigan), for days afterward (Arizona), or "disappearing" altogether (Pennsylvania), etc. I think you get the idea. Evidence isn't proof...the other side gets to make a case too...but it is evidence. We've been told from November 4 forward there was none. Admit it...if you saw REPUBLICAN Ruby Freeman rolling boxes out from under that table in the middle of the night in Atlanta after DEMOCRAT observers had been sent home with enough ballots to flip the election from BIDEN to TRUMP...you'd be sure there was chicanery afoot. And you'd almost certainly be right.

My point is this: When Al Gore had issues with the 2000 election, all we heard from Democrats and the media was that "every vote must count." Fair enough. And whether you believe the 2020 election was stolen or not, Trump didn't make any of this stuff up and had the right...and I would argue, the obligation...to use every legal challenge (I can discuss each one, including January 6, but I won't) available to "save democracy" by ensuring that there were good and valid answers to these concerns, and that the election had indeed, been fair. But Trump supporters have been mocked, intimidated, threatened, disbarred, and arrested, and we've all just endured a one-sided, Communist-style show trial with threatened prosecution for crying out loud, as the cherry on top...for challenging an election where there was plenty of evidence that he very well might have won. All of that is very, very dangerous...and just plain wrong. My point (finally): Whether Trump actually won the election or not, he absolutely had valid reason to believe he did, with plenty of figures to back it up. The underlying narrative was/is "The Big Lie." No one....NO ONE...can possibly be sure of that. (A buddy of mine just fact checked me on that. He says I'm good.)

Yes, Trump called Brad Raffensperger and asked/pushed him to disqualify a number of illegal votes. Illegal votes. I read the NYT article, then listened to a recording of the call. A "Time" article I read suggests the Democrats were doing some pretty intense lobbying themselves about that time. After Raffensperger tap danced around it a time or two, Georgia Governor Kemp realized he was polling slightly behind COVID-19 and hinted one night that a recount/audit might not be a bad idea. The next day, a boyfriend of his daughter was blown up in his car. Not died in a crash. Blown up. So much for the recount/audit. The investigator (FBI or GBI?) assigned to the case had a very short life span himself, meeting an unfortunate demise a couple weeks later. All coincidence, no doubt. A less than persuasive phone call. A car blowing up. Which got more attention? Which would you prefer to experience?

My interest in this is 0% Donald Trump and 100% fair and honest elections. And before I go, I'll point out that there are more than a few people out there who are pretty sure the two instances I cited above were not the only times hackers were having their way with those voting machines. Interesting that neither Democrats nor Republicans want us anywhere near them. In fact, I daresay those machines and their continued use are being better protected than Hunter Biden. (OK...if you know me at all, you know I had to do that at least once.) Wonder why that would be? I'll leave with a message for both Democrats and Republicans: Surrrre....just give me a call any time for a campaign contribution! Could be fun!

Yeah...you can look for that check in the mail.

There. I said my piece. You guys can have the last word. And if you're inclined to ignore the material and attack me personally, have at it. I'm bald and ugly too.

Thanks for listening.


SR/BHF

I too want fair elections because without that trust, we’re no better than many corrupt and totalitarian countries that oppress and abuse their people. Indiscriminate and massive mail in balloting and ballot harvesting turned this last election into a free for all to say the least, and made things ripe for Voter fraud on a massive scale for anyone to scheme the system, and that’s precisely what happened. And once the election was over, it was too late, as there was no time or will to go back and fully prove what happened.

You can say what you want, but trust in government today is at an all time low and justifiably so. I never would have believed I would see a day that the corruption, deceit, dishonesty, and abuse by big government and the most trusted agencies within the government would be as politically compromised as they are today. It’s beyond rotten.
 
Last edited:

republion

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2009
2,178
3,864
1
When one side continually objects to voter ID, wants expanded mail in voting, and wants expanded voting time, you have to ask why? Is it so every single legal American has every opportunity to exercise their civil duty to vote?
Or is it so unscrupulous people can use every measure necessary to get ballots in the box, whether it be legal, morally questionable, or illegal?
WHATEVER IT TAKES!
 

bourbon n blues

Well-Known Member
Nov 20, 2019
21,934
25,604
1
When one side continually objects to voter ID, wants expanded mail in voting, and wants expanded voting time, you have to ask why? Is it so every single legal American has every opportunity to exercise their civil duty to vote?
Or is it so unscrupulous people can use every measure necessary to get ballots in the box, whether it be legal, morally questionable, or illegal?
WHATEVER IT TAKES!
Exactly.
 
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bison13

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2007
7,676
6,972
1
My grandmother is 89 years old, has dementia and definitely did not vote in Nov 2020. She hasn't left the house in two years and many days doesnt know who she is. She has always voted straight D, just hits the all D button/circle and leaves. She does this even when its just local stuff like when she bad mouthed her neighbor as a "POS who should die" but they ran D for township supervisor.

Well last election she somehow voted for JB but didnt vote in any other race in the state/township hmmm. Seems plausible right?
 

bourbon n blues

Well-Known Member
Nov 20, 2019
21,934
25,604
1
My grandmother is 89 years old, has dementia and definitely did not vote in Nov 2020. She hasn't left the house in two years and many days doesnt know who she is. She has always voted straight D, just hits the all D button/circle and leaves. She does this even when its just local stuff like when she bad mouthed her neighbor as a "POS who should die" but they ran D for township supervisor.

Well last election she somehow voted for JB but didnt vote in any other race in the state/township hmmm. Seems plausible right?
Very, 🙄🙄.
 

BHF23

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2005
99
1,069
1
Well, I'm inclined to believe but that is probably because I voted for Trump not Biden. The obvious question is where do you get the data on all of these illegal double voting, underage, not US citizen's who voted? And if that is common knowledge why are we subject to "bad voting machines" and 2,000 mules? [unless the mules did all this illegal voting. the other side would say in almost every lawsuit Trump lost.
I wasn't going to do this, but you asked some fair questions. Let me start my response by reiterating my original point: I didn't mean to suggest that I thought I was proving that Trump really won the election. I am saying that I have no doubt he believed that he did and pursued his challenges in good faith.

Where do I get my data? I read numerous reports, viewed numerous videos (including the blocking of observers in Philadelphia and Detroit, vehicles delivering boxes of ballots in the middle of the night in Detroit, the dead of night video from Atlanta, countless interviews from witnesses, 2000 Mules, etc.), and read numerous affidavits from some of the court cases, among other things. Then I contacted Ray Blehar to get his opinion on which of the information was good and which wasn't. After working with Ray on the Penn State stuff, I have the utmost faith in Ray's integrity. I saw him change his opinion on more than one occasion in his Penn State investigation when he got credible information that changed a previous view. He did an honest investigation. It's an area of expertise for him. He's a good man. Ray also did some work on the election, and I read a good bit of that work.

Ray vouched for the work of Peter Navarro, which is where I got most of the detail I posted in the original post. (Navarro has now been arrested for contempt of Congress.) Also got some from Ray's work and tried to cross check different sources when I could. I'll remind you again...my point is that Trump also had this information as he pursued his challenges in good faith. Maybe it would have flown in court, maybe not. But it was evidence. I did not have access to Navarro's notes, but I did what I could to verify his work. The other side would say he's a Trump guy. Of course he is. The (fair) question is whether his information is accurate. OK. Let's hear it in an honest courtroom and not rely on partisan fact checkers to have the final say.

Why are we subject to voting machines and 2000 Mules? We are subject to voting machines because these machines have been used successfully to steal elections all over the world for a number of years (maybe as long as 20 years or so), and we have politicians (R and D, from my belief) who are willing to use them, as well. My opinion is that those who have used them for personal purposes would not want to be exposed for obvious reasons. When I was working on the Penn State stuff, I remember having two chilling moments: the first was when I realized "These guys don't intend to be held accountable for what they've done." The second...which was worse for me was when I realized "Uh oh... They don't intend to stop." That perfectly describes the way I would answer your question about why we're subject to the machines now. They don't intend to be held accountable for what they've done. They don't intend to stop. That's opinion. Oh, I also saw some of the video and emails of Eric Coomer, the Dominion literature, demonstrations of how easy it was to hack the machines, interviews from poll workers who witnessed internet connections during the election, and live in real time on the internet stream a Chinese hacker identified by name by Jovan Pulitzer in front of the Georgia Senate during the Senate runoff election. (Ray told me his group saw about 20 occasions during the runoff where Perdue's vote totals were reduced overnight in the runoff. Hope I'm not betraying a confidence there.) Anyway, I'll stray away from my original point for a moment and say I believe the machines are the ultimate problem. The Mules provided the ballots (some legit, no doubt...some not, no doubt), and the machines directed where they went. That's opinion based on research.

2000 Mules...to answer your question, I'll just say this. We are subject to it because people were willing to cheat and probably thought (knew?) they would be protected. I saw the movie and looked at the fact checks afterward to see if critics could poke holes in it. One local politician (I forget from where) said he could debunk it because he probably rode by one of the boxes half a dozen times himself, totally innocently. Oh. Sorry. You win. So make it "1999 Mules." I don't call that "debunking." When Brad Raffensperger was used as your fact checking source, that's all I need to know. He should be in jail. That's also an opinion based on research. (Ray also vouched for Dinesh's work.)

"The other side would say in almost every court case, Trump lost." Let me start with one that Trump won to illustrate my response to this, the recent Wisconsin Supreme Court ruling that the ballot boxes were illegal. The vote was 4-3, with all conservative justices voting with the majority and all liberal justices voting against. The other side would say it was a partisan ruling. The law seemed pretty clear cut to me, and I'd wonder why a case like that wouldn't generate a 7-0 vote, but let's grant them that it was a partisan ruling. That certainly happens. (I'll refer you to my original post: I'm a one-issue voter...on THIS issue.) There was an early case brought in Michigan. I looked at all the affidavits, video with witnesses, etc. A ton of stuff. The judge not only dismissed the case but also ruled that the witnesses were not credible. He never even saw or heard them. I did. They struck me as being decent people who were minding their own business serving their communities. The ruling could only have been meant to make an appeal more difficult. It could not have been based on an honest review of the evidence. I'd say that was a partisan ruling. I'd also say that there were plenty more of those. Most of the cases were dismissed on procedural grounds. Virtually all, if not all, of the evidence on Trump's side has never seen the light of day in a courtroom. Or at least in a fair courtroom. And I'll go back to my original point again. Trump had every reason to trust his evidence, and I believe he pursued his challenges in good faith. (And legally, by the way. I followed the process step by step, informed myself as well as I could on the legal aspects of it, researching the laws myself rather than relying on news reports whenever I could.)

So...I hope I answered your questions. I'm not a genius, and I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a regular guy who went to the trouble of doing all I could to let the evidence inform my opinions rather than letting a preconceived opinion inform my view of the evidence.

Thanks for your response.

SR/BHF
 

Fayette_LION

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jan 28, 2004
10,504
7,357
1
I wasn't going to do this, but you asked some fair questions. Let me start my response by reiterating my original point: I didn't mean to suggest that I thought I was proving that Trump really won the election. I am saying that I have no doubt he believed that he did and pursued his challenges in good faith.

Where do I get my data? I read numerous reports, viewed numerous videos (including the blocking of observers in Philadelphia and Detroit, vehicles delivering boxes of ballots in the middle of the night in Detroit, the dead of night video from Atlanta, countless interviews from witnesses, 2000 Mules, etc.), and read numerous affidavits from some of the court cases, among other things. Then I contacted Ray Blehar to get his opinion on which of the information was good and which wasn't. After working with Ray on the Penn State stuff, I have the utmost faith in Ray's integrity. I saw him change his opinion on more than one occasion in his Penn State investigation when he got credible information that changed a previous view. He did an honest investigation. It's an area of expertise for him. He's a good man. Ray also did some work on the election, and I read a good bit of that work.

Ray vouched for the work of Peter Navarro, which is where I got most of the detail I posted in the original post. (Navarro has now been arrested for contempt of Congress.) Also got some from Ray's work and tried to cross check different sources when I could. I'll remind you again...my point is that Trump also had this information as he pursued his challenges in good faith. Maybe it would have flown in court, maybe not. But it was evidence. I did not have access to Navarro's notes, but I did what I could to verify his work. The other side would say he's a Trump guy. Of course he is. The (fair) question is whether his information is accurate. OK. Let's hear it in an honest courtroom and not rely on partisan fact checkers to have the final say.

Why are we subject to voting machines and 2000 Mules? We are subject to voting machines because these machines have been used successfully to steal elections all over the world for a number of years (maybe as long as 20 years or so), and we have politicians (R and D, from my belief) who are willing to use them, as well. My opinion is that those who have used them for personal purposes would not want to be exposed for obvious reasons. When I was working on the Penn State stuff, I remember having two chilling moments: the first was when I realized "These guys don't intend to be held accountable for what they've done." The second...which was worse for me was when I realized "Uh oh... They don't intend to stop." That perfectly describes the way I would answer your question about why we're subject to the machines now. They don't intend to be held accountable for what they've done. They don't intend to stop. That's opinion. Oh, I also saw some of the video and emails of Eric Coomer, the Dominion literature, demonstrations of how easy it was to hack the machines, interviews from poll workers who witnessed internet connections during the election, and live in real time on the internet stream a Chinese hacker identified by name by Jovan Pulitzer in front of the Georgia Senate during the Senate runoff election. (Ray told me his group saw about 20 occasions during the runoff where Perdue's vote totals were reduced overnight in the runoff. Hope I'm not betraying a confidence there.) Anyway, I'll stray away from my original point for a moment and say I believe the machines are the ultimate problem. The Mules provided the ballots (some legit, no doubt...some not, no doubt), and the machines directed where they went. That's opinion based on research.

2000 Mules...to answer your question, I'll just say this. We are subject to it because people were willing to cheat and probably thought (knew?) they would be protected. I saw the movie and looked at the fact checks afterward to see if critics could poke holes in it. One local politician (I forget from where) said he could debunk it because he probably rode by one of the boxes half a dozen times himself, totally innocently. Oh. Sorry. You win. So make it "1999 Mules." I don't call that "debunking." When Brad Raffensperger was used as your fact checking source, that's all I need to know. He should be in jail. That's also an opinion based on research. (Ray also vouched for Dinesh's work.)

"The other side would say in almost every court case, Trump lost." Let me start with one that Trump won to illustrate my response to this, the recent Wisconsin Supreme Court ruling that the ballot boxes were illegal. The vote was 4-3, with all conservative justices voting with the majority and all liberal justices voting against. The other side would say it was a partisan ruling. The law seemed pretty clear cut to me, and I'd wonder why a case like that wouldn't generate a 7-0 vote, but let's grant them that it was a partisan ruling. That certainly happens. (I'll refer you to my original post: I'm a one-issue voter...on THIS issue.) There was an early case brought in Michigan. I looked at all the affidavits, video with witnesses, etc. A ton of stuff. The judge not only dismissed the case but also ruled that the witnesses were not credible. He never even saw or heard them. I did. They struck me as being decent people who were minding their own business serving their communities. The ruling could only have been meant to make an appeal more difficult. It could not have been based on an honest review of the evidence. I'd say that was a partisan ruling. I'd also say that there were plenty more of those. Most of the cases were dismissed on procedural grounds. Virtually all, if not all, of the evidence on Trump's side has never seen the light of day in a courtroom. Or at least in a fair courtroom. And I'll go back to my original point again. Trump had every reason to trust his evidence, and I believe he pursued his challenges in good faith. (And legally, by the way. I followed the process step by step, informed myself as well as I could on the legal aspects of it, researching the laws myself rather than relying on news reports whenever I could.)

So...I hope I answered your questions. I'm not a genius, and I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a regular guy who went to the trouble of doing all I could to let the evidence inform my opinions rather than letting a preconceived opinion inform my view of the evidence.

Thanks for your response.

SR/BHF
Anyone who believes this past election was fair and without issues should look real hard in the mirror and ask theirselves if they truly believe those results. Far too many last minute Covid changes to say that election was fair and correct.
 

BUFFALO LION

Well-Known Member
Oct 4, 2001
12,348
5,849
1
Every day I see what’s going on at the Southern Border, I become more and more convinced that the 2020 election was stolen, and that Biden and key Democrats have sold out to the CCP.

Does anyone realize how easy Biden has made it for the CCP to knock off half of the United States without ever firing a shot???? Has anyone looked at how much fentanyl has been smuggled into this country by the Mexican cartels since Biden has entered Office????

The fentanyl is made in China. Our government, for some bizarre reason, is INTENTIONALLY allowing it to be flooded into the US by the Mexican cartels. WHY????

Once it’s here, or even while it’s still in Mexico, it’s being made into pill form which for the time being, only mostly affects addicts, or the few unlucky idiots that order cheap pharmaceuticals on line and get one offed.

Without getting into detail, does anyone have any idea how easy Biden has made it for the Chinese, through the Cartels, to poison almost every human in America at the flip of the switch???? Once you’ve heard the details of how easily the Biden Administration has ALLOWED that to happen, it’s not that big a leap to think that most of those illegals won’t somehow be used as voting pawns in the 2024 election.

That Time Magazine article awhile back almost bragged how easy it was to steal the election. And what I experienced first hand in Pennsylvania, even though I’m a legal resident of New York, was an eye opener.

There is no question in my mind the Chinese and Dems stole that 2020 election. And I also wouldn’t be surprised if we someday found out that the incredibly convenient timing of the COVID pandemic was no accident.

Biden must have gotten his marching orders from Xi yesterday. Not much publicity about the phone call.
 

m.knox

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 20, 2003
106,506
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My grandmother is 89 years old, has dementia and definitely did not vote in Nov 2020. She hasn't left the house in two years and many days doesnt know who she is. She has always voted straight D, just hits the all D button/circle and leaves. She does this even when its just local stuff like when she bad mouthed her neighbor as a "POS who should die" but they ran D for township supervisor.

Well last election she somehow voted for JB but didnt vote in any other race in the state/township hmmm. Seems plausible right?

All I can tell you is that two applications for absentee ballots showed up in the mail for the previous owners of my house. They retired to Wisconsin to be with family in 1993. The husband passed in 2020.

Yet dems resist cleaning up the voter rolls so that every vote, illegal or legal, counts. In the warped minds of people like NJ, cleaning up voter roles is DESTROYING DEMOCRACY......

In fact, if the left got its way prior to the 2020 elections, Claudia Tenney would have lost to Anthony Brindisi in NY22. That's how much they want illegal ballots to count.
 

Obliviax

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2001
108,137
57,873
1
I only started reading this board recently, haven't posted on it before, and probably won't again. Some might remember me from the McAndrew Board. I recognize a few of you. I had read the Freeh Report, recognized it for the garbage it was, and decided to look into it. I thought I'd take a couple weeks, see if I could figure out what really happened, and maybe write a few pages or so of analysis. Five years, two round trips from Georgia to State College and back, and over 1000 pages (about 140 of which were passed along to the Feds) later, I ended up posting a series ("Feckless") covering the trustees in place at the time because that's where the trail led me. I stopped pretty much because I had worked some with Ray Blehar in the process, and he was doing what I was doing, only better.

I was entirely apolitical until the 90s, when I became a single-issue voter against activist/corrupt judges for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. I'm pretty much still there. I'm a registered independent and honestly don't have much use for either party. I don't see things in terms of red and blue...more like black and white, right and wrong. And if I'm driving straight on "Candid," don't expect to see me make a left on "Tactful." (Barry Fenchak lite?) That "Feckless" series could have been one sentence: "Yep, Joe did it" if that's where my investigation led. I'm glad it didn't, but facts would have been facts. I've thought for a long time that the Democrat and Republican establishment are a whole lot more like each other than either of them are like you or me. I'm sure of it now.

I smelled a rat by about Page 3 of the Freeh Report (paraphrased: "We didn't talk to anybody who knew anything. Nevertheless, we're giving you a complete, comprehensive, balls on accurate account of the whole situation. Pinky swear."), and by about 7:00 a.m. the morning after the election, I got a whiff of that same aroma. So I started paying closer attention and doing some homework, reading up on laws, looking at transcripts of court cases, watching interviews and legislative hearings, etc. There's really only one point I want to make here; I'll try to do it as briefly as I can. (Too late for that, huh?)

Start with this. There are three possibilities: 1. There was no fraud in the election. (If that's your belief, you can stop reading now. Of course there was. There always is. For Pete's sake, the next honest election in Philadelphia will be the first. So just stop it.); 2. There was some fraud in the election, but not enough to change the result. (OK. I'm listening.); or 3. There was significant fraud in the election, enough to change the result. (Hey...I said I was listening. Whatta ya got?)

BIDEN 306 TRUMP 232

WISCONSIN (10 electoral votes) The Supreme Court of Wisconsin recently ruled that the drop boxes are and were illegal. Those votes alone were enough to flip Wisconsin. (Over 500,000 questionable votes in Wisconsin altogether) BIDEN 296 TRUMP 242

GEORGIA (16 electoral votes) The number of underage (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Georgia. (Over 600,000 questionable votes in Georgia altogether) BIDEN 280 TRUMP 258

ARIZONA (11 electoral votes) The number of non-citizen (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Arizona. (Over 250,000 questionable votes in Arizona altogether) BIDEN 269 TRUMP 269

NEVADA (6 electoral votes) The number of voters who (illegally) double voted were enough to flip Nevada. (Over 200,000 questionable votes in Nevada altogether) TRUMP 275 BIDEN 263

MICHIGAN (16 electoral votes) The number of (illegal) voters with no registration numbers alone were enough to flip Michigan. The number of votes processed without observation were too. (Let's be real here. There is only one reason that every one of these states has a law requiring accommodation of poll observers. And it's the same only reason that anyone would interfere with observation.) TRUMP 288 BIDEN 250

So there's a case. The numbers of illegal votes shown above in those few states would have been enough to turn the election. I stopped at the low hanging fruit and hadn't even gotten to PENNSYLVANIA (20 electoral votes; nearly 1,000,000 questionable votes) or VIRGINIA (13 electoral votes; 300,000 votes flipped from TRUMP to BIDEN at about 5:00 the morning of November 4, compromised voting machines subject to outside manipulation (the ultimate backstop; proven in Antrim County, Michigan; I witnessed with my own two eyes a Chinese hacker with access in real time during the Georgia Senate runoff), the unhealthy percentage of adjudicated ballots, vehicles full of ballots showing up in the middle of the night (Michigan), for days afterward (Arizona), or "disappearing" altogether (Pennsylvania), etc. I think you get the idea. Evidence isn't proof...the other side gets to make a case too...but it is evidence. We've been told from November 4 forward there was none. Admit it...if you saw REPUBLICAN Ruby Freeman rolling boxes out from under that table in the middle of the night in Atlanta after DEMOCRAT observers had been sent home with enough ballots to flip the election from BIDEN to TRUMP...you'd be sure there was chicanery afoot. And you'd almost certainly be right.

My point is this: When Al Gore had issues with the 2000 election, all we heard from Democrats and the media was that "every vote must count." Fair enough. And whether you believe the 2020 election was stolen or not, Trump didn't make any of this stuff up and had the right...and I would argue, the obligation...to use every legal challenge (I can discuss each one, including January 6, but I won't) available to "save democracy" by ensuring that there were good and valid answers to these concerns, and that the election had indeed, been fair. But Trump supporters have been mocked, intimidated, threatened, disbarred, and arrested, and we've all just endured a one-sided, Communist-style show trial with threatened prosecution for crying out loud, as the cherry on top...for challenging an election where there was plenty of evidence that he very well might have won. All of that is very, very dangerous...and just plain wrong. My point (finally): Whether Trump actually won the election or not, he absolutely had valid reason to believe he did, with plenty of figures to back it up. The underlying narrative was/is "The Big Lie." No one....NO ONE...can possibly be sure of that. (A buddy of mine just fact checked me on that. He says I'm good.)

Yes, Trump called Brad Raffensperger and asked/pushed him to disqualify a number of illegal votes. Illegal votes. I read the NYT article, then listened to a recording of the call. A "Time" article I read suggests the Democrats were doing some pretty intense lobbying themselves about that time. After Raffensperger tap danced around it a time or two, Georgia Governor Kemp realized he was polling slightly behind COVID-19 and hinted one night that a recount/audit might not be a bad idea. The next day, a boyfriend of his daughter was blown up in his car. Not died in a crash. Blown up. So much for the recount/audit. The investigator (FBI or GBI?) assigned to the case had a very short life span himself, meeting an unfortunate demise a couple weeks later. All coincidence, no doubt. A less than persuasive phone call. A car blowing up. Which got more attention? Which would you prefer to experience?

My interest in this is 0% Donald Trump and 100% fair and honest elections. And before I go, I'll point out that there are more than a few people out there who are pretty sure the two instances I cited above were not the only times hackers were having their way with those voting machines. Interesting that neither Democrats nor Republicans want us anywhere near them. In fact, I daresay those machines and their continued use are being better protected than Hunter Biden. (OK...if you know me at all, you know I had to do that at least once.) Wonder why that would be? I'll leave with a message for both Democrats and Republicans: Surrrre....just give me a call any time for a campaign contribution! Could be fun!

Yeah...you can look for that check in the mail.

There. I said my piece. You guys can have the last word. And if you're inclined to ignore the material and attack me personally, have at it. I'm bald and ugly too.

Thanks for listening.


SR/BHF
Thanks for the post.

I had a family member who visited Wisconsin and Erie PA for the post-election audit. There were a few things that stood out.

  • The audits were being done where the votes were counted. In both cases, in inner-city locations in worn-out buildings manned by part-time workers who were clearly Democrats (almost all of them minorities). Due to "COVID" the auditors were not able to get close to the people counting votes. In many cases, the workers lined up water bottles so the auditors could not see what they were doing. Again, since this was done in the inner cities, the "referees" were all democrats. When any problems were brought up, it was always ruled in favor of democrats. The family member immediately realized the audit was a waste of time.
  • My family member didn't find any direct evidence of fraud but really saw that the chain of custody was totally destroyed due to the COVID, mail-in rules in place. Envelopes were separated from ballots and it was impossible to know, unless you tracked down each one individually, who did what and where. So the end result was that the "audit" showed that there could be no effective audit. Bottom line is that there was no gross voter fraud discovered but only because it was impossible to discover it.
  • When the GOP protested to the courts about what legislation in PA had taken place before the election, the courts ruled that there were no laws broken because the election hadn't been performed yet. After the election, the courts ruled it was too late. Rock and a hard place. IDK about the other states.
  • I was a poll observer on election day in Cleveland. My wife was as well. I can tell you the people I worked with (again, all inner-city part-time people) were very nice. They were also totally incompetent. The process was nothing short of archaic. They didn't know the end-of-day tally process so had to call down to the central office. I know that they broke several rules. But I didn't see anything like fraud, just that the people and process were so totally incompetent that I, nor anyone else, has any idea what went on. BTW, in my voting place, there were seven votes for Trump.
  • My wife had a worse poll experience. At one point, the Democrat observer asked my wife to file a case against the boss. My wife asked why don't you file a claim? And she stated that the boss was a democrat and it would hurt her, a democrat, to file a claim against another democrat. But that the process and votes were so wildly screwed up she couldn't stand back and do nothing in good conscience. In the end, the courts WILL NOT disallow a vote unless there is irrefutable evidence. I had a guy who showed up at the wrong precinct at the last minute. They let him file a "provisional vote" so he could try to claim he was in the right place. His DL had a different address and he was not registered. He started to yell and scream so they took his vote. I reported it and the GOP decided they would only do something if his single vote made a difference.
 

The Spin Meister

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Nov 27, 2012
24,291
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An altered state
Some very good posts, BHF. And have to at a minimum listen to someone that has only 95 posts but over a 1000 reactions! Amazing ratio.

And spot on with your analysis. There are enough .......um......‘irregularities’ that demand a full blown investigation. But there is no one we can trust to do a true, unbiased investigation.

And imagine the damage done if it is proven beyond a doubt that Trump won? Do we immediately remove Biden? Cancel every bill he signed and EO he wrote? Remove all judges and bureaucrats he appointed? Overturn and relittigate every case those judges heard?

We are in a terrible state.
 
Last edited:

Obliviax

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 21, 2001
108,137
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1
Some very good posts, BHF. And have to at a minimum listen to someone that has only 95 posts but over a 1000 reactions! Amazing ratio.

And spot on with your analysis. There are enough .......um......‘irregularities’ that demand a full blown investigation. But there is no one we can trust to do a true, unbiased investigation.

And imagine the damage done if it is proven beyond a doubt that Trump won? Do we immediately remove Biden? Cancel every bill he signed and EO he wrote? Remove all judges and bureaucrats he appointed? Overturn and relegate every case those judges heard?

We are in a terrible state.
I think you are correct. To do a "full investigation" with the lack of audit trail the democrats destroyed in the name of COVID would be tantamount to having the election again. You'd have to take every single vote and do research on that individual, where they lived, how they voted, validate their signatures, make sure they were coerced (nursing homes), etc. Just was never going to happen.

Secondly, we are far enough away that people don't want there to be a full investigation on both sides of the aisle. What would happen if GA and AZ discovered voter fraud had taken place and Trump won? there is no provision for that eventuality. the people that determine that are people that have their seats. they aren't going to fight for the common good. They have theirs.
 
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NewEra 2014

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Jan 3, 2014
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I think you are correct. To do a "full investigation" with the lack of audit trail the democrats destroyed in the name of COVID would be tantamount to having the election again.

Secondly, we are far enough away that people don't want there to be a full investigation on both sides of the aisle. What would happen if GA and AZ discovered voter fraud had taken place and Trump won? there is no provision for that eventuality. the people that determine that are people that have their seats. they aren't going to fight for the common good. They have theirs.
The last election is over. All we can really do is to try to ensure that the next election is legit. Neither Dems nor Republicans by and large seem very interested in doing that.
 

ForesterGump

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Jul 21, 2012
866
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Whether it will make much of a difference is anyone's guess. I don't think it is the kind of reform necessary to bring confidence back to the voters. The voter data needs to be updated, and kept up to date.

Moore vs Harper is scheduled to go before the Supreme Court. This case should decide if the state's legislature can decide election procedure without the judiciary being able to nullify it (like they did in PA). This may also go one step beyond and allow the Legislature to regulate federal elections without executive branch input. There is no hearing date posted.
 
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bourbon n blues

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Nov 20, 2019
21,934
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I think you are correct. To do a "full investigation" with the lack of audit trail the democrats destroyed in the name of COVID would be tantamount to having the election again. You'd have to take every single vote and do research on that individual, where they lived, how they voted, validate their signatures, make sure they were coerced (nursing homes), etc. Just was never going to happen.

Secondly, we are far enough away that people don't want there to be a full investigation on both sides of the aisle. What would happen if GA and AZ discovered voter fraud had taken place and Trump won? there is no provision for that eventuality. the people that determine that are people that have their seats. they aren't going to fight for the common good. They have theirs.
"So the end result was that the "audit" showed that there could be no effective audit. Bottom line is that there was no gross voter fraud discovered but only because it was impossible to discover it."

And that's why they did it, obfuscation is proof of fraud in my book. Try that with the IRS.
 

WeR0206

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Apr 9, 2014
19,409
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2020evidence.org
I only started reading this board recently, haven't posted on it before, and probably won't again. Some might remember me from the McAndrew Board. I recognize a few of you. I had read the Freeh Report, recognized it for the garbage it was, and decided to look into it. I thought I'd take a couple weeks, see if I could figure out what really happened, and maybe write a few pages or so of analysis. Five years, two round trips from Georgia to State College and back, and over 1000 pages (about 140 of which were passed along to the Feds) later, I ended up posting a series ("Feckless") covering the trustees in place at the time because that's where the trail led me. I stopped pretty much because I had worked some with Ray Blehar in the process, and he was doing what I was doing, only better.

I was entirely apolitical until the 90s, when I became a single-issue voter against activist/corrupt judges for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. I'm pretty much still there. I'm a registered independent and honestly don't have much use for either party. I don't see things in terms of red and blue...more like black and white, right and wrong. And if I'm driving straight on "Candid," don't expect to see me make a left on "Tactful." (Barry Fenchak lite?) That "Feckless" series could have been one sentence: "Yep, Joe did it" if that's where my investigation led. I'm glad it didn't, but facts would have been facts. I've thought for a long time that the Democrat and Republican establishment are a whole lot more like each other than either of them are like you or me. I'm sure of it now.

I smelled a rat by about Page 3 of the Freeh Report (paraphrased: "We didn't talk to anybody who knew anything. Nevertheless, we're giving you a complete, comprehensive, balls on accurate account of the whole situation. Pinky swear."), and by about 7:00 a.m. the morning after the election, I got a whiff of that same aroma. So I started paying closer attention and doing some homework, reading up on laws, looking at transcripts of court cases, watching interviews and legislative hearings, etc. There's really only one point I want to make here; I'll try to do it as briefly as I can. (Too late for that, huh?)

Start with this. There are three possibilities: 1. There was no fraud in the election. (If that's your belief, you can stop reading now. Of course there was. There always is. For Pete's sake, the next honest election in Philadelphia will be the first. So just stop it.); 2. There was some fraud in the election, but not enough to change the result. (OK. I'm listening.); or 3. There was significant fraud in the election, enough to change the result. (Hey...I said I was listening. Whatta ya got?)

BIDEN 306 TRUMP 232

WISCONSIN (10 electoral votes) The Supreme Court of Wisconsin recently ruled that the drop boxes are and were illegal. Those votes alone were enough to flip Wisconsin. (Over 500,000 questionable votes in Wisconsin altogether) BIDEN 296 TRUMP 242

GEORGIA (16 electoral votes) The number of underage (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Georgia. (Over 600,000 questionable votes in Georgia altogether) BIDEN 280 TRUMP 258

ARIZONA (11 electoral votes) The number of non-citizen (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Arizona. (Over 250,000 questionable votes in Arizona altogether) BIDEN 269 TRUMP 269

NEVADA (6 electoral votes) The number of voters who (illegally) double voted were enough to flip Nevada. (Over 200,000 questionable votes in Nevada altogether) TRUMP 275 BIDEN 263

MICHIGAN (16 electoral votes) The number of (illegal) voters with no registration numbers alone were enough to flip Michigan. The number of votes processed without observation were too. (Let's be real here. There is only one reason that every one of these states has a law requiring accommodation of poll observers. And it's the same only reason that anyone would interfere with observation.) TRUMP 288 BIDEN 250

So there's a case. The numbers of illegal votes shown above in those few states would have been enough to turn the election. I stopped at the low hanging fruit and hadn't even gotten to PENNSYLVANIA (20 electoral votes; nearly 1,000,000 questionable votes) or VIRGINIA (13 electoral votes; 300,000 votes flipped from TRUMP to BIDEN at about 5:00 the morning of November 4, compromised voting machines subject to outside manipulation (the ultimate backstop; proven in Antrim County, Michigan; I witnessed with my own two eyes a Chinese hacker with access in real time during the Georgia Senate runoff), the unhealthy percentage of adjudicated ballots, vehicles full of ballots showing up in the middle of the night (Michigan), for days afterward (Arizona), or "disappearing" altogether (Pennsylvania), etc. I think you get the idea. Evidence isn't proof...the other side gets to make a case too...but it is evidence. We've been told from November 4 forward there was none. Admit it...if you saw REPUBLICAN Ruby Freeman rolling boxes out from under that table in the middle of the night in Atlanta after DEMOCRAT observers had been sent home with enough ballots to flip the election from BIDEN to TRUMP...you'd be sure there was chicanery afoot. And you'd almost certainly be right.

My point is this: When Al Gore had issues with the 2000 election, all we heard from Democrats and the media was that "every vote must count." Fair enough. And whether you believe the 2020 election was stolen or not, Trump didn't make any of this stuff up and had the right...and I would argue, the obligation...to use every legal challenge (I can discuss each one, including January 6, but I won't) available to "save democracy" by ensuring that there were good and valid answers to these concerns, and that the election had indeed, been fair. But Trump supporters have been mocked, intimidated, threatened, disbarred, and arrested, and we've all just endured a one-sided, Communist-style show trial with threatened prosecution for crying out loud, as the cherry on top...for challenging an election where there was plenty of evidence that he very well might have won. All of that is very, very dangerous...and just plain wrong. My point (finally): Whether Trump actually won the election or not, he absolutely had valid reason to believe he did, with plenty of figures to back it up. The underlying narrative was/is "The Big Lie." No one....NO ONE...can possibly be sure of that. (A buddy of mine just fact checked me on that. He says I'm good.)

Yes, Trump called Brad Raffensperger and asked/pushed him to disqualify a number of illegal votes. Illegal votes. I read the NYT article, then listened to a recording of the call. A "Time" article I read suggests the Democrats were doing some pretty intense lobbying themselves about that time. After Raffensperger tap danced around it a time or two, Georgia Governor Kemp realized he was polling slightly behind COVID-19 and hinted one night that a recount/audit might not be a bad idea. The next day, a boyfriend of his daughter was blown up in his car. Not died in a crash. Blown up. So much for the recount/audit. The investigator (FBI or GBI?) assigned to the case had a very short life span himself, meeting an unfortunate demise a couple weeks later. All coincidence, no doubt. A less than persuasive phone call. A car blowing up. Which got more attention? Which would you prefer to experience?

My interest in this is 0% Donald Trump and 100% fair and honest elections. And before I go, I'll point out that there are more than a few people out there who are pretty sure the two instances I cited above were not the only times hackers were having their way with those voting machines. Interesting that neither Democrats nor Republicans want us anywhere near them. In fact, I daresay those machines and their continued use are being better protected than Hunter Biden. (OK...if you know me at all, you know I had to do that at least once.) Wonder why that would be? I'll leave with a message for both Democrats and Republicans: Surrrre....just give me a call any time for a campaign contribution! Could be fun!

Yeah...you can look for that check in the mail.

There. I said my piece. You guys can have the last word. And if you're inclined to ignore the material and attack me personally, have at it. I'm bald and ugly too.

Thanks for listening.


SR/BHF
Great post, FTR here is Navarro's report. It's pretty damning.


All people should need to see to conclude there was major fraud during this election is bidens performance in bellwether counties compared to previous winners:

RyqtZNhO.jpeg
 

roswelllion

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Gold Member
Aug 18, 2003
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I wasn't going to do this, but you asked some fair questions. Let me start my response by reiterating my original point: I didn't mean to suggest that I thought I was proving that Trump really won the election. I am saying that I have no doubt he believed that he did and pursued his challenges in good faith.

Where do I get my data? I read numerous reports, viewed numerous videos (including the blocking of observers in Philadelphia and Detroit, vehicles delivering boxes of ballots in the middle of the night in Detroit, the dead of night video from Atlanta, countless interviews from witnesses, 2000 Mules, etc.), and read numerous affidavits from some of the court cases, among other things. Then I contacted Ray Blehar to get his opinion on which of the information was good and which wasn't. After working with Ray on the Penn State stuff, I have the utmost faith in Ray's integrity. I saw him change his opinion on more than one occasion in his Penn State investigation when he got credible information that changed a previous view. He did an honest investigation. It's an area of expertise for him. He's a good man. Ray also did some work on the election, and I read a good bit of that work.

Ray vouched for the work of Peter Navarro, which is where I got most of the detail I posted in the original post. (Navarro has now been arrested for contempt of Congress.) Also got some from Ray's work and tried to cross check different sources when I could. I'll remind you again...my point is that Trump also had this information as he pursued his challenges in good faith. Maybe it would have flown in court, maybe not. But it was evidence. I did not have access to Navarro's notes, but I did what I could to verify his work. The other side would say he's a Trump guy. Of course he is. The (fair) question is whether his information is accurate. OK. Let's hear it in an honest courtroom and not rely on partisan fact checkers to have the final say.

Why are we subject to voting machines and 2000 Mules? We are subject to voting machines because these machines have been used successfully to steal elections all over the world for a number of years (maybe as long as 20 years or so), and we have politicians (R and D, from my belief) who are willing to use them, as well. My opinion is that those who have used them for personal purposes would not want to be exposed for obvious reasons. When I was working on the Penn State stuff, I remember having two chilling moments: the first was when I realized "These guys don't intend to be held accountable for what they've done." The second...which was worse for me was when I realized "Uh oh... They don't intend to stop." That perfectly describes the way I would answer your question about why we're subject to the machines now. They don't intend to be held accountable for what they've done. They don't intend to stop. That's opinion. Oh, I also saw some of the video and emails of Eric Coomer, the Dominion literature, demonstrations of how easy it was to hack the machines, interviews from poll workers who witnessed internet connections during the election, and live in real time on the internet stream a Chinese hacker identified by name by Jovan Pulitzer in front of the Georgia Senate during the Senate runoff election. (Ray told me his group saw about 20 occasions during the runoff where Perdue's vote totals were reduced overnight in the runoff. Hope I'm not betraying a confidence there.) Anyway, I'll stray away from my original point for a moment and say I believe the machines are the ultimate problem. The Mules provided the ballots (some legit, no doubt...some not, no doubt), and the machines directed where they went. That's opinion based on research.

2000 Mules...to answer your question, I'll just say this. We are subject to it because people were willing to cheat and probably thought (knew?) they would be protected. I saw the movie and looked at the fact checks afterward to see if critics could poke holes in it. One local politician (I forget from where) said he could debunk it because he probably rode by one of the boxes half a dozen times himself, totally innocently. Oh. Sorry. You win. So make it "1999 Mules." I don't call that "debunking." When Brad Raffensperger was used as your fact checking source, that's all I need to know. He should be in jail. That's also an opinion based on research. (Ray also vouched for Dinesh's work.)

"The other side would say in almost every court case, Trump lost." Let me start with one that Trump won to illustrate my response to this, the recent Wisconsin Supreme Court ruling that the ballot boxes were illegal. The vote was 4-3, with all conservative justices voting with the majority and all liberal justices voting against. The other side would say it was a partisan ruling. The law seemed pretty clear cut to me, and I'd wonder why a case like that wouldn't generate a 7-0 vote, but let's grant them that it was a partisan ruling. That certainly happens. (I'll refer you to my original post: I'm a one-issue voter...on THIS issue.) There was an early case brought in Michigan. I looked at all the affidavits, video with witnesses, etc. A ton of stuff. The judge not only dismissed the case but also ruled that the witnesses were not credible. He never even saw or heard them. I did. They struck me as being decent people who were minding their own business serving their communities. The ruling could only have been meant to make an appeal more difficult. It could not have been based on an honest review of the evidence. I'd say that was a partisan ruling. I'd also say that there were plenty more of those. Most of the cases were dismissed on procedural grounds. Virtually all, if not all, of the evidence on Trump's side has never seen the light of day in a courtroom. Or at least in a fair courtroom. And I'll go back to my original point again. Trump had every reason to trust his evidence, and I believe he pursued his challenges in good faith. (And legally, by the way. I followed the process step by step, informed myself as well as I could on the legal aspects of it, researching the laws myself rather than relying on news reports whenever I could.)

So...I hope I answered your questions. I'm not a genius, and I'm not a lawyer. I'm just a regular guy who went to the trouble of doing all I could to let the evidence inform my opinions rather than letting a preconceived opinion inform my view of the evidence.

Thanks for your response.

SR/BHF
Thank you and good response. I guess my skepticism also started with the JS case. I feel like we are now left with two choices.
1. Things are really ok and we are conspiracy nuts
2. Our justice system is seriously broken and very little can be trusted and very few are willing to change it.

What seems to make it worse is the media which is supposed to be the one institution to provide the "sunlight" is now completely one sided [or at least completely biased to one side or the other]

Very depressing on this otherwise beautiful Friday morning.
 

roswelllion

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 18, 2003
9,741
8,667
1
Great post, FTR here is Navarro's report. It's pretty damning.


All people should need to see to conclude there was major fraud during this election is bidens performance in bellwether counties compared to previous winners:

RyqtZNhO.jpeg
WeR I saw these charts early on and this more than anything else convinced me. The other chart I remember seeing was [as an example] even in those heavy D districts at the end the vote was maybe Biden 90 Trump 10 except in the last couple hours it was Biden 98 Trump 2. Why would that be?
 

bourbon n blues

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Nov 20, 2019
21,934
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Some very good posts, BHF. And have to at a minimum listen to someone that has only 95 posts but over a 1000 reactions! Amazing ratio.

And spot on with your analysis. There are enough .......um......‘irregularities’ that demand a full blown investigation. But there is no one we can trust to do a true, unbiased investigation.

And imagine the damage done if it is proven beyond a doubt that Trump won? Do we immediately remove Biden? Cancel every bill he signed and EO he wrote? Remove all judges and bureaucrats he appointed? Overturn and relegate every case those judges heard?

We are in a terrible state.
To answer your question, yes.
 
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RoyalT12

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Dec 3, 2020
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I only started reading this board recently, haven't posted on it before, and probably won't again. Some might remember me from the McAndrew Board. I recognize a few of you. I had read the Freeh Report, recognized it for the garbage it was, and decided to look into it. I thought I'd take a couple weeks, see if I could figure out what really happened, and maybe write a few pages or so of analysis. Five years, two round trips from Georgia to State College and back, and over 1000 pages (about 140 of which were passed along to the Feds) later, I ended up posting a series ("Feckless") covering the trustees in place at the time because that's where the trail led me. I stopped pretty much because I had worked some with Ray Blehar in the process, and he was doing what I was doing, only better.

I was entirely apolitical until the 90s, when I became a single-issue voter against activist/corrupt judges for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. I'm pretty much still there. I'm a registered independent and honestly don't have much use for either party. I don't see things in terms of red and blue...more like black and white, right and wrong. And if I'm driving straight on "Candid," don't expect to see me make a left on "Tactful." (Barry Fenchak lite?) That "Feckless" series could have been one sentence: "Yep, Joe did it" if that's where my investigation led. I'm glad it didn't, but facts would have been facts. I've thought for a long time that the Democrat and Republican establishment are a whole lot more like each other than either of them are like you or me. I'm sure of it now.

I smelled a rat by about Page 3 of the Freeh Report (paraphrased: "We didn't talk to anybody who knew anything. Nevertheless, we're giving you a complete, comprehensive, balls on accurate account of the whole situation. Pinky swear."), and by about 7:00 a.m. the morning after the election, I got a whiff of that same aroma. So I started paying closer attention and doing some homework, reading up on laws, looking at transcripts of court cases, watching interviews and legislative hearings, etc. There's really only one point I want to make here; I'll try to do it as briefly as I can. (Too late for that, huh?)

Start with this. There are three possibilities: 1. There was no fraud in the election. (If that's your belief, you can stop reading now. Of course there was. There always is. For Pete's sake, the next honest election in Philadelphia will be the first. So just stop it.); 2. There was some fraud in the election, but not enough to change the result. (OK. I'm listening.); or 3. There was significant fraud in the election, enough to change the result. (Hey...I said I was listening. Whatta ya got?)

BIDEN 306 TRUMP 232

WISCONSIN (10 electoral votes) The Supreme Court of Wisconsin recently ruled that the drop boxes are and were illegal. Those votes alone were enough to flip Wisconsin. (Over 500,000 questionable votes in Wisconsin altogether) BIDEN 296 TRUMP 242

GEORGIA (16 electoral votes) The number of underage (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Georgia. (Over 600,000 questionable votes in Georgia altogether) BIDEN 280 TRUMP 258

ARIZONA (11 electoral votes) The number of non-citizen (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Arizona. (Over 250,000 questionable votes in Arizona altogether) BIDEN 269 TRUMP 269

NEVADA (6 electoral votes) The number of voters who (illegally) double voted were enough to flip Nevada. (Over 200,000 questionable votes in Nevada altogether) TRUMP 275 BIDEN 263

MICHIGAN (16 electoral votes) The number of (illegal) voters with no registration numbers alone were enough to flip Michigan. The number of votes processed without observation were too. (Let's be real here. There is only one reason that every one of these states has a law requiring accommodation of poll observers. And it's the same only reason that anyone would interfere with observation.) TRUMP 288 BIDEN 250

So there's a case. The numbers of illegal votes shown above in those few states would have been enough to turn the election. I stopped at the low hanging fruit and hadn't even gotten to PENNSYLVANIA (20 electoral votes; nearly 1,000,000 questionable votes) or VIRGINIA (13 electoral votes; 300,000 votes flipped from TRUMP to BIDEN at about 5:00 the morning of November 4, compromised voting machines subject to outside manipulation (the ultimate backstop; proven in Antrim County, Michigan; I witnessed with my own two eyes a Chinese hacker with access in real time during the Georgia Senate runoff), the unhealthy percentage of adjudicated ballots, vehicles full of ballots showing up in the middle of the night (Michigan), for days afterward (Arizona), or "disappearing" altogether (Pennsylvania), etc. I think you get the idea. Evidence isn't proof...the other side gets to make a case too...but it is evidence. We've been told from November 4 forward there was none. Admit it...if you saw REPUBLICAN Ruby Freeman rolling boxes out from under that table in the middle of the night in Atlanta after DEMOCRAT observers had been sent home with enough ballots to flip the election from BIDEN to TRUMP...you'd be sure there was chicanery afoot. And you'd almost certainly be right.

My point is this: When Al Gore had issues with the 2000 election, all we heard from Democrats and the media was that "every vote must count." Fair enough. And whether you believe the 2020 election was stolen or not, Trump didn't make any of this stuff up and had the right...and I would argue, the obligation...to use every legal challenge (I can discuss each one, including January 6, but I won't) available to "save democracy" by ensuring that there were good and valid answers to these concerns, and that the election had indeed, been fair. But Trump supporters have been mocked, intimidated, threatened, disbarred, and arrested, and we've all just endured a one-sided, Communist-style show trial with threatened prosecution for crying out loud, as the cherry on top...for challenging an election where there was plenty of evidence that he very well might have won. All of that is very, very dangerous...and just plain wrong. My point (finally): Whether Trump actually won the election or not, he absolutely had valid reason to believe he did, with plenty of figures to back it up. The underlying narrative was/is "The Big Lie." No one....NO ONE...can possibly be sure of that. (A buddy of mine just fact checked me on that. He says I'm good.)

Yes, Trump called Brad Raffensperger and asked/pushed him to disqualify a number of illegal votes. Illegal votes. I read the NYT article, then listened to a recording of the call. A "Time" article I read suggests the Democrats were doing some pretty intense lobbying themselves about that time. After Raffensperger tap danced around it a time or two, Georgia Governor Kemp realized he was polling slightly behind COVID-19 and hinted one night that a recount/audit might not be a bad idea. The next day, a boyfriend of his daughter was blown up in his car. Not died in a crash. Blown up. So much for the recount/audit. The investigator (FBI or GBI?) assigned to the case had a very short life span himself, meeting an unfortunate demise a couple weeks later. All coincidence, no doubt. A less than persuasive phone call. A car blowing up. Which got more attention? Which would you prefer to experience?

My interest in this is 0% Donald Trump and 100% fair and honest elections. And before I go, I'll point out that there are more than a few people out there who are pretty sure the two instances I cited above were not the only times hackers were having their way with those voting machines. Interesting that neither Democrats nor Republicans want us anywhere near them. In fact, I daresay those machines and their continued use are being better protected than Hunter Biden. (OK...if you know me at all, you know I had to do that at least once.) Wonder why that would be? I'll leave with a message for both Democrats and Republicans: Surrrre....just give me a call any time for a campaign contribution! Could be fun!

Yeah...you can look for that check in the mail.

There. I said my piece. You guys can have the last word. And if you're inclined to ignore the material and attack me personally, have at it. I'm bald and ugly too.

Thanks for listening.


SR/BHF
🤪🤪
 

maypole

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2022
1,499
632
1
I only started reading this board recently, haven't posted on it before, and probably won't again. Some might remember me from the McAndrew Board. I recognize a few of you. I had read the Freeh Report, recognized it for the garbage it was, and decided to look into it. I thought I'd take a couple weeks, see if I could figure out what really happened, and maybe write a few pages or so of analysis. Five years, two round trips from Georgia to State College and back, and over 1000 pages (about 140 of which were passed along to the Feds) later, I ended up posting a series ("Feckless") covering the trustees in place at the time because that's where the trail led me. I stopped pretty much because I had worked some with Ray Blehar in the process, and he was doing what I was doing, only better.

I was entirely apolitical until the 90s, when I became a single-issue voter against activist/corrupt judges for reasons entirely unrelated to politics. I'm pretty much still there. I'm a registered independent and honestly don't have much use for either party. I don't see things in terms of red and blue...more like black and white, right and wrong. And if I'm driving straight on "Candid," don't expect to see me make a left on "Tactful." (Barry Fenchak lite?) That "Feckless" series could have been one sentence: "Yep, Joe did it" if that's where my investigation led. I'm glad it didn't, but facts would have been facts. I've thought for a long time that the Democrat and Republican establishment are a whole lot more like each other than either of them are like you or me. I'm sure of it now.

I smelled a rat by about Page 3 of the Freeh Report (paraphrased: "We didn't talk to anybody who knew anything. Nevertheless, we're giving you a complete, comprehensive, balls on accurate account of the whole situation. Pinky swear."), and by about 7:00 a.m. the morning after the election, I got a whiff of that same aroma. So I started paying closer attention and doing some homework, reading up on laws, looking at transcripts of court cases, watching interviews and legislative hearings, etc. There's really only one point I want to make here; I'll try to do it as briefly as I can. (Too late for that, huh?)

Start with this. There are three possibilities: 1. There was no fraud in the election. (If that's your belief, you can stop reading now. Of course there was. There always is. For Pete's sake, the next honest election in Philadelphia will be the first. So just stop it.); 2. There was some fraud in the election, but not enough to change the result. (OK. I'm listening.); or 3. There was significant fraud in the election, enough to change the result. (Hey...I said I was listening. Whatta ya got?)

BIDEN 306 TRUMP 232

WISCONSIN (10 electoral votes) The Supreme Court of Wisconsin recently ruled that the drop boxes are and were illegal. Those votes alone were enough to flip Wisconsin. (Over 500,000 questionable votes in Wisconsin altogether) BIDEN 296 TRUMP 242

GEORGIA (16 electoral votes) The number of underage (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Georgia. (Over 600,000 questionable votes in Georgia altogether) BIDEN 280 TRUMP 258

ARIZONA (11 electoral votes) The number of non-citizen (illegal) voters alone were enough to flip Arizona. (Over 250,000 questionable votes in Arizona altogether) BIDEN 269 TRUMP 269

NEVADA (6 electoral votes) The number of voters who (illegally) double voted were enough to flip Nevada. (Over 200,000 questionable votes in Nevada altogether) TRUMP 275 BIDEN 263

MICHIGAN (16 electoral votes) The number of (illegal) voters with no registration numbers alone were enough to flip Michigan. The number of votes processed without observation were too. (Let's be real here. There is only one reason that every one of these states has a law requiring accommodation of poll observers. And it's the same only reason that anyone would interfere with observation.) TRUMP 288 BIDEN 250

So there's a case. The numbers of illegal votes shown above in those few states would have been enough to turn the election. I stopped at the low hanging fruit and hadn't even gotten to PENNSYLVANIA (20 electoral votes; nearly 1,000,000 questionable votes) or VIRGINIA (13 electoral votes; 300,000 votes flipped from TRUMP to BIDEN at about 5:00 the morning of November 4, compromised voting machines subject to outside manipulation (the ultimate backstop; proven in Antrim County, Michigan; I witnessed with my own two eyes a Chinese hacker with access in real time during the Georgia Senate runoff), the unhealthy percentage of adjudicated ballots, vehicles full of ballots showing up in the middle of the night (Michigan), for days afterward (Arizona), or "disappearing" altogether (Pennsylvania), etc. I think you get the idea. Evidence isn't proof...the other side gets to make a case too...but it is evidence. We've been told from November 4 forward there was none. Admit it...if you saw REPUBLICAN Ruby Freeman rolling boxes out from under that table in the middle of the night in Atlanta after DEMOCRAT observers had been sent home with enough ballots to flip the election from BIDEN to TRUMP...you'd be sure there was chicanery afoot. And you'd almost certainly be right.

My point is this: When Al Gore had issues with the 2000 election, all we heard from Democrats and the media was that "every vote must count." Fair enough. And whether you believe the 2020 election was stolen or not, Trump didn't make any of this stuff up and had the right...and I would argue, the obligation...to use every legal challenge (I can discuss each one, including January 6, but I won't) available to "save democracy" by ensuring that there were good and valid answers to these concerns, and that the election had indeed, been fair. But Trump supporters have been mocked, intimidated, threatened, disbarred, and arrested, and we've all just endured a one-sided, Communist-style show trial with threatened prosecution for crying out loud, as the cherry on top...for challenging an election where there was plenty of evidence that he very well might have won. All of that is very, very dangerous...and just plain wrong. My point (finally): Whether Trump actually won the election or not, he absolutely had valid reason to believe he did, with plenty of figures to back it up. The underlying narrative was/is "The Big Lie." No one....NO ONE...can possibly be sure of that. (A buddy of mine just fact checked me on that. He says I'm good.)

Yes, Trump called Brad Raffensperger and asked/pushed him to disqualify a number of illegal votes. Illegal votes. I read the NYT article, then listened to a recording of the call. A "Time" article I read suggests the Democrats were doing some pretty intense lobbying themselves about that time. After Raffensperger tap danced around it a time or two, Georgia Governor Kemp realized he was polling slightly behind COVID-19 and hinted one night that a recount/audit might not be a bad idea. The next day, a boyfriend of his daughter was blown up in his car. Not died in a crash. Blown up. So much for the recount/audit. The investigator (FBI or GBI?) assigned to the case had a very short life span himself, meeting an unfortunate demise a couple weeks later. All coincidence, no doubt. A less than persuasive phone call. A car blowing up. Which got more attention? Which would you prefer to experience?

My interest in this is 0% Donald Trump and 100% fair and honest elections. And before I go, I'll point out that there are more than a few people out there who are pretty sure the two instances I cited above were not the only times hackers were having their way with those voting machines. Interesting that neither Democrats nor Republicans want us anywhere near them. In fact, I daresay those machines and their continued use are being better protected than Hunter Biden. (OK...if you know me at all, you know I had to do that at least once.) Wonder why that would be? I'll leave with a message for both Democrats and Republicans: Surrrre....just give me a call any time for a campaign contribution! Could be fun!

Yeah...you can look for that check in the mail.

There. I said my piece. You guys can have the last word. And if you're inclined to ignore the material and attack me personally, have at it. I'm bald and ugly too.

Thanks for listening.


SR/BHF
Thanks, WeR0206.
 

RoyalT12

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2020
5,855
4,462
1
The insanity, inaccuracy and use of bad data is far too much for any normal person would want to address. This election has been scrutinized and litigated more than any history. Your “analysis “ is a wish list with supposition and very analogies. Why I wasted any time stating the obvious is a mystery to me. Have a great life.
 

m.knox

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 20, 2003
106,506
60,434
1
The insanity, inaccuracy and use of bad data is far too much for any normal person would want to address. This election has been scrutinized and litigated more than any history. Your “analysis “ is a wish list with supposition and very analogies. Why I wasted any time stating the obvious is a mystery to me. Have a great life.

You wasted your time because you are unhinged.

Friday night! Any big plans like hanging out at Seasons 52 in King of Prussia???
 
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RoyalT12

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2020
5,855
4,462
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You wasted your time because you are unhinged.

Friday night! Any big plans like hanging out at Seasons 52 in King of Prussia???
Ooh another original post . Are you brain damaged or just limited from birth. Why di you ask by the way, do you want to have dinner with me hun?
 

m.knox

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 20, 2003
106,506
60,434
1
Ooh another original post . Are you brain damaged or just limited from birth. Why di you ask by the way, do you want to have dinner with me hun?

Ew. Don't call me "hon" (it's short for "honey"... Where is @LafayetteBear when you need him most?)

If you don't like what you did that fateful night of October 22, 2021, you can simply say you were buzzed. We were all buzzed tough guys at one point in our lives at one time.
 
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RoyalT12

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2020
5,855
4,462
1
Ew. Don't call me "hon" (it's short for "honey"... Where is @LafayetteBear when you need him most?)

If you don't like what you did that fateful night of October 22, 2021, you can simply say you were buzzed. We were all buzzed tough guys at one point in our lives at one time
So you do or don’t want to have dinner hon?
 

Catch50

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2003
35,292
2,107
1
Thank you and good response. I guess my skepticism also started with the JS case. I feel like we are now left with two choices.
1. Things are really ok and we are conspiracy nuts
2. Our justice system is seriously broken and very little can be trusted and very few are willing to change it. (Remember all those Trump appointed judges who ruled against him ... never forget. Trump 2024 needs to appoint even more corrupt judges. I can't imagine who would want to work in that administration.)

What seems to make it worse is the media which is supposed to be the one institution to provide the "sunlight" is now completely one sided [or at least completely biased to one side or the other]

Very depressing on this otherwise beautiful Friday morning.
 

Op2

Well-Known Member
Mar 16, 2014
6,472
4,526
1
My grandmother is 89 years old, has dementia and definitely did not vote in Nov 2020. She hasn't left the house in two years and many days doesnt know who she is. She has always voted straight D, just hits the all D button/circle and leaves. She does this even when its just local stuff like when she bad mouthed her neighbor as a "POS who should die" but they ran D for township supervisor.

Well last election she somehow voted for JB but didnt vote in any other race in the state/township hmmm. Seems plausible right?
How do you know who your 89 year old GM is recorded as having voted for in 2020?
 

LMTLION

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2008
2,659
2,771
1
Ew. Don't call me "hon" (it's short for "honey"... Where is @LafayetteBear when you need him most?)

If you don't like what you did that fateful night of October 22, 2021, you can simply say you were buzzed. We were all buzzed tough guys at one point in our lives at one time.
What happened?
 

roswelllion

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Aug 18, 2003
9,741
8,667
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Catch get up to speed man. I said I first observed this in the Sandusky case circa 2011. Way before Trump. Most lefties believed the system was corrupt while I always gave the system the benefit of the doubt. The more I observe the less I trust the system. The only thing that does seem to be more focused on Trump is the media.
 

bourbon n blues

Well-Known Member
Nov 20, 2019
21,934
25,604
1
Catch get up to speed man. I said I first observed this in the Sandusky case circa 2011. Way before Trump. Most lefties believed the system was corrupt while I always gave the system the benefit of the doubt. The more I observe the less I trust the system. The only thing that does seem to be more focused on Trump is the media.
Sandusky isn’t as good of an example as gun control. If you followed that as long as I have you’ll see a complicit, lying media going back over forty years.