WTF is going on???
Coaches need to come together and demand an explanation and/or fix to this madness. We can’t continue under these circumstances.
Officiating State of Emergency
- Thread starter js8793
- Start date
WTF is going on???
Coaches need to come together and demand an explanation and/or fix to this madness. We can’t continue under these circumstances.
Getting close to saying no reaction time was a better product.
This one seems a whole order of magnitude worse, which is hard to do. It honestly looks like they’re trying to one-up each other.
That is 3 and 2 NF at a minimum, unless reaction time is about 5 seconds.
Reaction time seems to be the gray area. Completely up to human error of the ref.
What I'm having a hard time with is that the rule change was specifically about the rear-standing hand-touch situation, and that only, right? How is changing that one case having such a big impact on any number of non-related situations? Did I miss a memo to the refs or something? Is there a point of emphasis on allowing more reaction time overall?
I don’t understand why a guy while being “taken down” isn’t “taken down” until he stops moving? How can we get this mostly right in youth, MS, and HS, but it be completely different and subjective for college?
Actually I think the calls being made now are very similar to what you see in HS. The Davis and the Composto calls happen all the time in HS, refs usually take a beat before calling the TD and quite frequently it never gets called because there is no longer control.
It has always been very different at the NCAA level. And I agree, I don't think it makes the product better to make it more like HS.
That would probably mean that Martin pinned Nikal instead of the opposite result.
Why doesn’t neutral danger apply here?
Camera coverage has made officials jobs far easier to critique in all sports. I truly have mixed emotions about all the long delays in wrestling matches when 2 officials are on the mat. If ref makes a call they should be able to review at table within about a minute to confirm. 2 minutes if they need to change ruling and scoring.The brick challenge changes the pace of bout and can take away the advantage of the better condition wrestler.
The coaches challenge isn't always fair to a wrestler that is wrestling later in the match or tournament. Coaches lose it early and the poor kid that gets hosed later in night doesn't get a chance to have call corrected. Every match a coach should have option to challenge but create a negative aspect to being wrong. Give the opponent choice on restart or something similar.
Just speed up the process and the fans would be ok with it.
The coaches challenge isn't always fair to a wrestler that is wrestling later in the match or tournament. Coaches lose it early and the poor kid that gets hosed later in night doesn't get a chance to have call corrected. Every match a coach should have option to challenge but create a negative aspect to being wrong. Give the opponent choice on restart or something similar.
Just speed up the process and the fans would be ok with it.
Because if you look at the clock, Hahvahd was <90 deg for at most 2 sec. Neutral danger is a 3-count.
Considering Bo never had both shoulders down for 1 sec, that would've been a major human error.
To borrow the joke about Congress: the NCAA does 2 things well -- overreact and nothing.
Getting rid of the no reaction time rule for rear standing position was good -- except the NCAA assumed the refs would maintain consistency in all other positions without at least refresher training, i.e., they did nothing.
Whatever the NCAA does next will either be nothing or a major over-correction. Because that's what they do.
I liked it so much better. Took all subjectivity out of it. Control was formed when he tossed him to his back, now he has to toss him to his back and hold him there for 2 seconds to show even more control.
Pin and a takedown are 2 different situations. Even if Nickal gave up the 2, he would have still ended that match gloriously and no one would have cared what the score was at the time.
I think they did give Martin the takedown, right?
I'm still not understanding how a specific rule change for rear-standing (think Cenzo's first TD vs iMar) has anything at all to do with all these other situations. Is it just a psychological impact on the refs?
I'm just saying any change to a rule interpretation there on a takedown doesn't change the outcome.
If it looks like an orange, walks like an orange, quacks like an orange ...
Are you sure about that? I'm not. A lot of Ohio State folks claim to this day that Martin pinned Bo in that match. Without reaction time, they might be right.
True, I dont see how how you pull off the elevator without having you shoulders down at least for a split second.
Wow, this isn't even a case of subjectivity, this is (now) clearly a takedown, how can this be debated??
I don't have a link to show it, but there was another camera angle of Bo hitting that elevator on Martin where you had a very clear view of his back and shoulders. He rolled across them momentarily but was never even close to being in a position where the ref could have called a pin.
I don't think both of his shoulders were ever flat on the mat he was slightly turned which is how he pulled martin back over. Like mentioned above I don't think reaction time mattered because Bo was pulling his ass over come hell or high water martin still got the takedown I noticed that the last time I watched the match which is usually once a month just for shits and giggles
I've never seen an Ohio State fan say he was pinned and reaction time has nothing to do with pins anyway. If your shoulders are flat for a second, you're pinned. There is no reaction time.
more than half the thing refs recheck is BS and not needed at all!you get thrown on your back its a TD and near fall points end of story!
You can actually roll through in under a second, so yeah, reaction time can apply.
I've read quotes from Ohio State fans and wrestlers who claim Bo was pinned.
Yes, "under a second". If your shoulders touch for a continuous second, you're pinned. There's no shoulder touch - reaction time - then count starts sequence. It's touch - count immediate - pin.
The issue everyone ignores with Bo pinning Martin. The ref never signaled a TD for Martin and we did not have the reaction time consideration we have today.
Had Tom Ryan a brick and if he had thrown it claiming either failure to award the TD or back points (even a pin), there is a decent chance Martin is awarded the TD and they have to go back to Bo on bottom in the first period down 0-2 or worse, thus erasing the most iconic moment ever at the NCAAs.
I am not sure they have completely fixed considering continuation in a sequence on video reviews, but sooner or later someone is going to get screwed at nationals as a result.
Had Tom Ryan a brick and if he had thrown it claiming either failure to award the TD or back points (even a pin), there is a decent chance Martin is awarded the TD and they have to go back to Bo on bottom in the first period down 0-2 or worse, thus erasing the most iconic moment ever at the NCAAs.
I am not sure they have completely fixed considering continuation in a sequence on video reviews, but sooner or later someone is going to get screwed at nationals as a result.
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Not true. He gave 2 and 2 to Martin.
As for reaction time. Listen to what Willie had to say on TFW today.
Essentially a Takedown has been redefined and upon further reflection, I actually like where the refs are going with this.
I am in the camp, given my understanding of the rules last Friday, Davis was definitely taken down. It passed my eye test, maybe twice in that sequence.
However the way the refs are now officiating it it's a little less about "reaction time" and more about clear control. With this interpretation I agree. 3 points is a lot and they should be clearly earned. If you look through the lens that a takedown is a takedown and establishing clear "control" this now makes sense. When you think about it, this eliminates the instantaneous TD and any grey around interpreting what is reaction time. Is it a quarter of a second, a half , a full second, or more? Noone knows.
Reaction time is one of those 'I don't know how to define it but I know it when I see it' - bull shit. However, the establishment of 'control' over your opponent is much clearer. In this sense I don't think clear control over Davis was fully achieved.
A takedown is now takedown ***and*** control. I like it.
Essentially a Takedown has been redefined and upon further reflection, I actually like where the refs are going with this.
I am in the camp, given my understanding of the rules last Friday, Davis was definitely taken down. It passed my eye test, maybe twice in that sequence.
However the way the refs are now officiating it it's a little less about "reaction time" and more about clear control. With this interpretation I agree. 3 points is a lot and they should be clearly earned. If you look through the lens that a takedown is a takedown and establishing clear "control" this now makes sense. When you think about it, this eliminates the instantaneous TD and any grey around interpreting what is reaction time. Is it a quarter of a second, a half , a full second, or more? Noone knows.
Reaction time is one of those 'I don't know how to define it but I know it when I see it' - bull shit. However, the establishment of 'control' over your opponent is much clearer. In this sense I don't think clear control over Davis was fully achieved.
A takedown is now takedown ***and*** control. I like it.
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