LB recruiting and misses

[grinagrin]

Troy Reeder, Jake Cooper, Daiquon Kelly, Brelin Faison-Waldon and Braylin Franklin all seem to be misses. Add that to the fact that Koa Farmer and Jarvis Miller came in undersized and had to learn the position and aren’t natural LB’s. Micah also has to learn the position (but few are worried about him) although we did waste several months trying him at MLB. Also didn’t even get 3 years from Manny...Jan Johnson, like Brandon Smith, I believe will be a pleasant surprise.

Although the future looks bright with Micah, Luketa, Katshir, and (if they sign) B. Smith and Lance Dixon and hopefully Mekhail Sherman, Pry has had some bad luck for more than a few years with his position group.

And these are just the players we’ve signed. Not even mentioning the locals that got away like David Adams, Brendan Ferns, Dylan Rivers, Avery Roberts etc...

 

[Custerdome]

Water under the bridge now. Must figure out who should play, then play them. I think it should be 11, 13, and 9, but I'm not Brent Pry or James Franklin. They love 36, I don't, but they do, so 36 is one of them, but right now the three they are putting with the 1's, look bad.

Game one though, and the old guy from Brooklyn has this saying about what happens between game 1 and 2....

 

[LurkerLazarus]

And these are just the players we’ve signed. Not even mentioning the locals that got away like David Adams, Brendan Ferns, Dylan Rivers, Avery Roberts etc...

Adams is retired. If Ferns isn't, he will be. The poor kid can't stay healthy. Roberts is transferring somewhere. Rivers, at least, is probably getting laid on a regular basis.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

did Cooper play Saturday? I mean on ST

 

[Raffycorn]

Troy Reeder, Jake Cooper, Daiquon Kelly, Brelin Faison-Waldon and Braylin Franklin all seem to be misses. Add that to the fact that Koa Farmer and Jarvis Miller came in undersized and had to learn the position and aren’t natural LB’s. Micah also has to learn the position (but few are worried about him) although we did waste several months trying him at MLB. Also didn’t even get 3 years from Manny...Jan Johnson, like Brandon Smith, I believe will be a pleasant surprise.

Although the future looks bright with Micah, Luketa, Katshir, and (if they sign) B. Smith and Lance Dixon and hopefully Mekhail Sherman, Pry has had some bad luck for more than a few years with his position group.

And these are just the players we’ve signed. Not even mentioning the locals that got away like David Adams, Brendan Ferns, Dylan Rivers, Avery Roberts etc...

The staff moved Parsons full-time to Will and away from the Mike after about a week of spring practice.

And of the names you mentioned, Adams has retired from football, Ferns has yet to play a snap at WVU and might be forced to retire from football, Roberts has transferred from Nebraska and is looking for a new school, and we signed a linebacker in Brooks that was just as highly regarded to fill Rivers’ spot. I think the symptoms and inexperience we’re currently seeing at linebacker stem primarily from a serious lack of high quality linebacker prospects for the past several years in our traditional recruiting territory. That seemed to reverse a bit in 2018 with Parsons, Luketa and Katshir, and we’re starting to be able to recruit more nationally with the classes of 2019 and beyond, but the linebackers who have come from the region and have gone elsewhere in the 2017 and earlier classes haven’t really been misses at all.

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

the misses is tough but I don't think that she can play linebacker

 

[919_Lion]

Who was the guy that was wishy-washy about where he wanted to go.
I believe he wound up at Florida?

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

I didn't think the posts after game one could get more uninformed or stupid, I was wrong.

 

[GregInPitt]

Troy Reeder, Jake Cooper, Daiquon Kelly, Brelin Faison-Waldon and Braylin Franklin all seem to be misses. Add that to the fact that Koa Farmer and Jarvis Miller came in undersized and had to learn the position and aren’t natural LB’s. Micah also has to learn the position (but few are worried about him) although we did waste several months trying him at MLB. Also didn’t even get 3 years from Manny...Jan Johnson, like Brandon Smith, I believe will be a pleasant surprise.

Although the future looks bright with Micah, Luketa, Katshir, and (if they sign) B. Smith and Lance Dixon and hopefully Mekhail Sherman, Pry has had some bad luck for more than a few years with his position group.

And these are just the players we’ve signed. Not even mentioning the locals that got away like David Adams, Brendan Ferns, Dylan Rivers, Avery Roberts etc...

I don't believe the time Parsons spent at MLB was wasted. It's great that in the short time he has been at PSU he has been exposed to the MLB and OLB positions, which will help his understanding of the defense and make him a better player.

Lots of possibilities for the future, but CJF and Pry need to get 3 LB's on the field that can at least get into position to make plays.

Is it too early to call Faison-Waldon a bust? I hope so. Brooks didn't look too good Saturday, but it just may take some time for these young guys to get up to speed. Bowen sure could have been a solid LB that would have allowed the young LB's time to grow. But we need a few players to make plays now or this D will be in for a long year.

 

[GregInPitt]

Water under the bridge now. Must figure out who should play, then play them. I think it should be 11, 13, and 9, but I'm not Brent Pry or James Franklin. They love 36, I don't, but they do, so 36 is one of them, but right now the three they are putting with the 1's, look bad.

Game one though, and the old guy from Brooklyn has this saying about what happens between game 1 and 2....

That old guy from Brooklyn also said that you never are as good as you think you are when you win, and you are never as bad as you think you are when you lose. I can't remember what he said about thinking you are bad when you win.......

 

[Raffycorn]

Who was the guy that was wishy-washy about where he wanted to go.
I believe he wound up at Florida?

I believe you’re thinking about Alex Anzalone. He’s with the Saints now and was drafted in 2017, so he wouldn’t have helped matters this year.

Also, it looks like Avery Roberts landed at Oregon State.

 

[919_Lion]

I believe you’re thinking about Alex Anzalone. He’s with the Saints now and was drafted in 2017, so he wouldn’t have helped matters this year.

Also, it looks like Avery Roberts landed at Oregon State.

YES!!!!
That’s exactly who I was thinking of!

 

[Lion8286]

Troy Reeder, Jake Cooper, Daiquon Kelly, Brelin Faison-Waldon and Braylin Franklin all seem to be misses. Add that to the fact that Koa Farmer and Jarvis Miller came in undersized and had to learn the position and aren’t natural LB’s. Micah also has to learn the position (but few are worried about him) although we did waste several months trying him at MLB. Also didn’t even get 3 years from Manny...Jan Johnson, like Brandon Smith, I believe will be a pleasant surprise.

Although the future looks bright with Micah, Luketa, Katshir, and (if they sign) B. Smith and Lance Dixon and hopefully Mekhail Sherman, Pry has had some bad luck for more than a few years with his position group.

And these are just the players we’ve signed. Not even mentioning the locals that got away like David Adams, Brendan Ferns, Dylan Rivers, Avery Roberts etc...

Faison-Waldon - too early to tell

GOT AWAY
Adams - quit football before playing a single snap at ND
Ferns - has been injured all 3 years at WVU, missed all of 2016 and 2018 seasons, injured in game 4 of 2017 season
Rivers - too early to tell
Roberts - transferred out of Nebraska after freshman year

 

[Raffycorn]

I’m also digging back through the memory bank, and it looks like Bryton Barr, who was going to walk-on here all the way back in 2012 before deciding to go Towson post-scandal, is somehow still playing college football at UMass after being granted a seventh (!) year of eligibility. The rare redshirt redshirt senior.

 

[83wuzme]

Cooper is now listed 3rd on fhe depth chart at WLB. He has had shoulder problems since midseason 2016 but now says he feels better than in a long time.
Faison - Walden did dress on Saturday, but does not appear on the depth chart. He is a 2017 class guy who looked OK in the spring game but also looked more like a safety. Might be too early to give up on him.

Pry is on record as saying he likes to move guys “ up “ a position, i.e. S to LB, LB to DE, etc. The idea is to build speed into the defense. But you can see where this might backfire. Scholarships are tied up in project players, some of whom make little or no contribution on the field. Jan Johnson ends up as the starting MLB because we have so few typical MLB bodies on the roster.

 

[83wuzme]

I’m also digging back through the memory bank, and it looks like Bryton Barr, who was going to walk-on here all the way back in 2012 before deciding to go Towson post-scandal, is somehow still playing college football at UMass after being granted a seventh (!) year of eligibility. The rare redshirt redshirt senior.

Mr. Blutarsky ?

 

[jrd23psu]

I think part of our LB problems, and some of our safety problems stem from the fact that Franklin recruited guys and converted them to LB and safety. I think he has finally learned that he needs to recruit true LBers and he started that with the 2018 recruiting class. I think he's learned that with safety with the recruits coming in for 2019.

LB

Koa Famer - converted safety
Micah Parsons - converted DE
Jarvis Miller - converted safety


Safety

Nick Scott - converted RB
Garrett Taylor - converted CB
Lamont Wade - Converted CB

Farmer, Parsons, Scott, Taylor, and Wade are all starters or guys getting significant playing time that never played the position they are in until they got to PSU. Last year Troy Apke was a converted WR.

We also have guys at DT like Kevin Givens (converted OLB) and Damian Barber (converted DE). We struggle at the positions that Franklin doesn't recruit kids who played the position in high school. He seems to have a philosophy of recruiting kids and converting them. The problem is that in addition to having to learn to adjust to the speed and complexity of playing in college they have to gain weight and learn a new position. That takes time and a lot more development.

 

[Custerdome]

did Cooper play Saturday? I mean on ST

I hope not our special teams were god awful.

 

[bdgan]

Troy Reeder, Jake Cooper, Daiquon Kelly, Brelin Faison-Waldon and Braylin Franklin all seem to be misses. Add that to the fact that Koa Farmer and Jarvis Miller came in undersized and had to learn the position and aren’t natural LB’s. Micah also has to learn the position (but few are worried about him) although we did waste several months trying him at MLB. Also didn’t even get 3 years from Manny...Jan Johnson, like Brandon Smith, I believe will be a pleasant surprise.

Although the future looks bright with Micah, Luketa, Katshir, and (if they sign) B. Smith and Lance Dixon and hopefully Mekhail Sherman, Pry has had some bad luck for more than a few years with his position group.

And these are just the players we’ve signed. Not even mentioning the locals that got away like David Adams, Brendan Ferns, Dylan Rivers, Avery Roberts etc...

Khaleke Hudson would be a miss. I think he was 2nd team all conference last year.

We've had a couple of good LBs the last few years but no depth. The Rose Bowl got away from us as soon as Brandon Bell got hurt. We seem to be starting over after losing Cabinda and Bowen this year. IMO our best chance is for Johnson and Parsons to play well and avoid injury.

 

[Custerdome]

That old guy from Brooklyn also said that you never are as good as you think you are when you win, and you are never as bad as you think you are when you lose. I can't remember what he said about thinking you are bad when you win.......

I don't know but I do know that he saw about 3 games in 2001 with bad linebackers and then he had enough and got them both out of there. That was JOE, not anyone else, who did that.

Franklin is going to have to do the same thing. Somebody has to go, and somebody else has to be put in, because that was a $hit $how on Saturday.

 

[Custerdome]

Cooper is now listed 3rd on fhe depth chart at WLB. He has had shoulder problems since midseason 2016 but now says he feels better than in a long time.
Faison - Walden did dress on Saturday, but does not appear on the depth chart. He is a 2017 class guy who looked OK in the spring game but also looked more like a safety. Might be too early to give up on him.

Pry is on record as saying he likes to move guys “ up “ a position, i.e. S to LB, LB to DE, etc. The idea is to build speed into the defense. But you can see where this might backfire. Scholarships are tied up in project players, some of whom make little or no contribution on the field. Jan Johnson ends up as the starting MLB because we have so few typical MLB bodies on the roster.

...or, perhaps his defense is too complicated and it takes a kid as smart as Johnson to call it...I think he needs to simplify his defense so his players can get lined up and then play. Again, I'm not Pry and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I did watch App State pound 28 points on the board in one quarter and could have had more if not for a bad coaching decision.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

...or, perhaps his defense is too complicated and it takes a kid as smart as Johnson to call it...I think he needs to simplify his defense so his players can get lined up and then play. Again, I'm not Pry and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I did watch App State pound 28 points on the board in one quarter and could have had more if not for a bad coaching decision.

App state scoring 38 was not because the D is complicated

 

[Custerdome]

App state scoring 38 was not because the D is complicated

Could not get lined up correctly all day, especially in the 4th quarter. Something was too complicated. Heard a bunch of analysts say this also after the game. Yeah, one was Wanny, but a few others too.

 

[83wuzme]

Farmer and Brown, at their current levels, probably would struggle to make the 3 deep on PSU squads from 2004 - 2011. I think we have much better players that will develop from the class of 2018. This isn’t intended as a knock against Farmer or Brown. Farmer was not a defensive player when he came to PSU. His size and speed would seem to make him a good OLB prospect, but he did not have the instincts or background to play the position, so he’s been a project. He improved last season, but is probably near his ceiling.
Brown was a linebacker, but at 6’5 1/2” and 223 lb, he has more of a basketball build. He takes on blocks well but doesn’t seem to have instincts that put him around the ball. I am not sure if he was being used more like a rush end in HS. You don’t see many LB’s at any level with his build.

 

[novaclassof90]

I wouldn't call Reeder a miss. He was a big 10 1st team all frosh member. Just a kid who wanted to play alongside his little brother back in his home state at the school where his dad played. I really can't blame the kid for that and that doesn't mean he was a miss. Just a unique situation.

 

[TheGLOV]

Troy Reeder, Jake Cooper, Daiquon Kelly, Brelin Faison-Waldon and Braylin Franklin all seem to be misses. Add that to the fact that Koa Farmer and Jarvis Miller came in undersized and had to learn the position and aren’t natural LB’s. Micah also has to learn the position (but few are worried about him) although we did waste several months trying him at MLB. Also didn’t even get 3 years from Manny...Jan Johnson, like Brandon Smith, I believe will be a pleasant surprise.

Although the future looks bright with Micah, Luketa, Katshir, and (if they sign) B. Smith and Lance Dixon and hopefully Mekhail Sherman, Pry has had some bad luck for more than a few years with his position group.

And these are just the players we’ve signed. Not even mentioning the locals that got away like David Adams, Brendan Ferns, Dylan Rivers, Avery Roberts etc...

I discussed this exact point much earlier last year during the recruiting cycle.

 

[psuro]

I think it's the sanctions. Because they were supposed to devastate us for decades.

 

[Judge Smails]

5* Parsons, 4* Luketa, 5* B Smith, 4* Dixon

We're going to have the best linebacking core in the Big Ten starting next year. No doubt there were a ton of misses leading up to this point, but Franklin fixed it by killing it in recruiting (as he usually does).

 

[christoph]

Losing vandy hurt a lot imo.

 

[tboyer]

For all positions there are misses, and all programs will sometimes have a cluster of misses (or, very frequently, career threatening injuries) at a particular position. I'm not even sure this is an unusual number of misses given the number of LBers they've recruited over this time.

I don't think PSU is short of athletic ability at LBer, but it is short of experience, and there is only one cure for that, it's making a lot of mistakes that we can all see on TV. This is college football -- sometimes inexperience costs you games.

 

[Judge Smails]

Losing vandy hurt a lot imo.

If he was a great linebackers coach, he would have a better job currently.

Ron Vanderlinden is an American college football coach. He is currently the linebackers coach at the United States Air Force Academy.

 

[BBrown]

Could not get lined up correctly all day, especially in the 4th quarter. Something was too complicated. Heard a bunch of analysts say this also after the game. Yeah, one was Wanny, but a few others too.

JMO but I think a lot of the confusion and not getting lined up properly was a result of being young, first game and the majority of the credit has to go to App St. They had a ton of movement and I'm not talking about just motion, which they also had a lot of. But it looked to me like they would re-set their offense at least twice before the actual play. Really interesting concepts.

 

[BBrown]

Farmer and Brown, at their current levels, probably would struggle to make the 3 deep on PSU squads from 2004 - 2011. I think we have much better players that will develop from the class of 2018. This isn’t intended as a knock against Farmer or Brown. Farmer was not a defensive player when he came to PSU. His size and speed would seem to make him a good OLB prospect, but he did not have the instincts or background to play the position, so he’s been a project. He improved last season, but is probably near his ceiling.
Brown was a linebacker, but at 6’5 1/2” and 223 lb, he has more of a basketball build. He takes on blocks well but doesn’t seem to have instincts that put him around the ball. I am not sure if he was being used more like a rush end in HS. You don’t see many LB’s at any level with his build.

They really probably should have kept Koa at RB or maybe even TE. He's just not a very good LBr. Sorry.

 

[Custerdome]

JMO but I think a lot of the confusion and not getting lined up properly was a result of being young, first game and the majority of the credit has to go to App St. They had a ton of movement and I'm not talking about just motion, which they also had a lot of. But it looked to me like they would re-set their offense at least twice before the actual play. Really interesting concepts.

True. A lot of double H back sets in the slot, fullback motion, slot motion, shifts, pre snap changes, and then a ton of play action, off of those. No way we saw half of that on film and even if we did, no way we knew what was going on all the time.

 

[BBrown]

True. A lot of double H back sets in the slot, fullback motion, slot motion, shifts, pre snap changes, and then a ton of play action, off of those. No way we saw half of that on film and even if we did, no way we knew what was going on all the time.

Not sure if this is true but I heard they didn’t exchange tapes. If that’s the case they had nothing but HS tapes in the qb.
I don’t think we’ll see another team with that much motion again this season. Pitt will have some but I do think even they will go through all that.

 

[TheGLOV]

5* Parsons, 4* Luketa, 5* B Smith, 4* Dixon

We're going to have the best linebacking core in the Big Ten starting next year. No doubt there were a ton of misses leading up to this point, but Franklin fixed it by killing it in recruiting (as he usually does).

I think 'Lamb' being a legacy kid was a big miss.

Adams (ND) is no longer playing football but he did struggled mightily against all-star competition. Often, he was a step-slow or simply unable to make the tackle.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

If he was a great linebackers coach, he would have a better job currently.

Ron Vanderlinden is an American college football coach. He is currently the linebackers coach at the United States Air Force Academy.

Bull-pucky. FLO fired him because his little buddy (John Butler) felt threatened by RV.

Vanderlinden previously coached for McCartney at Colorado. He and his wife prefer the more relaxed atmosphere of Colorado Springs.

Vanderlinden was so accomplished as a coach that recruits selected PSU so that they could learn under him.

 

[83wuzme]

Bull-pucky. FLO fired him because his little buddy (John Butler) felt threatened by RV.

Vanderlinden previously coached for Gary Barnett at Colorado. He and his wife prefer the more relaxed atmosphere of Colorado Springs.

Vanderlinden was so accomplished as a coach that recruits selected PSU so that they could learn under him.

I don’t think anybody can factually say Vanderlinden wasn’t a great LB coach.
In my book far and away the best LB coach ever at PSU. He was a good recruiter as well.
He and BOB butted heads. BOB fired him, then left for the NFL.

 

[Raffycorn]

Bull-pucky. FLO fired him because his little buddy (John Butler) felt threatened by RV.

Vanderlinden previously coached for Gary Barnett at Colorado. He and his wife prefer the more relaxed atmosphere of Colorado Springs.

Vanderlinden was so accomplished as a coach that recruits selected PSU so that they could learn under him.

Which recruits?

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

Which recruits?

Probably no one you’ve heard of. RV arrived at PSU in 2001 and by 2005 was cranking out NFL caliber LB’s such as

Wake, Connor, Lee, Pozluzny, Shaw, Bowman, Hall, Stupar, Hull, Mauti, Zordich.....