one of the best five tool players of the modern era. I heard on sport talk, one of the talking heads (Mike Francesca maybe?) said he didn't have enough years in MLB to make the hall of fame. Dude played 16 years (same as Lou Gehrig, BTW).
Ichiro retires from baseball
- Thread starter Obliviax
- Start date
one of the best five tool players of the modern era. I heard on sport talk, one of the talking heads (Mike Francesca maybe?) said he didn't have enough years in MLB to make the hall of fame. Dude played 16 years (same as Lou Gehrig, BTW).
As a casual know nothing fan, I’d be surprised if he didn’t make the hall of fame. He was an amazing player and I bet if we looked it up he had the stats to measure up. It would be a shame if he missed out on that honor.
Ichiro was great and is a first ballot HOF.
But he wasn't a 5-tool player. Just 4.
But he wasn't a 5-tool player. Just 4.
I hear you...he wasn't a home run hitter. He had 117 in 16 seasons. Having said that, his slugging percentage was .402 which isn't bad.
Good riddance!
I remember years ago when during interleague play my sons wanted to go and see Seattle to see Ichiro and also go early to watch batting practice and to get his autograph. We were there when the gates opened, with my sons among a number of kids hanging around the Seattle dugout during the whole batting practice, calling for Ichiro to come to the rail for a few minutes to sign a couple of autographs. But Ichiro never signed one autograph. Never came to the rail. Never even turned his head towards the kids that were calling his name.
It won't be a shame if he is not in the hall of fame........
Isn't it Mike Francesa (as opposed to Francesca)? Either way, if he holds that opinion of Ichiro, a refrigerator box under an overpass may be too good for him.
Ichiro should get 100% affirmative votes for the HOF. The fact that he amassed so many hits so quickly, that he had one of the best outfield arms of ALL TIME, that he was so fast, and that he comported himself like a Hall of Famer in a culture that was entirely foreign to him (which must have been difficult), speaks volumes about the kind of player and person he is. He is a dead solid LOCK for the HOF.
First ballot. 3,000 MLB hits, would be MLB hits leader if he played his whole career in MLB.
Saying he would be the all time hit King is a stretch IMO.
He had 1,278 hits prior to coming to MLB at age 27.
He came up in Japan at 18 years old. It’s unlikley he would have been called up at that age in MLB. Probably closer to 20-21 years old.
The league he played in over in Japan is also not as competive as over here. So to assume he would have amassed that many hits in MLB prior to age 27 is a reach.
IMO he probably would have ended up just under 4000... which is still damn impressive. However due to his lack of power, he had a relatively low OB% for someone with that many hits.
[QUOTE="PSUcup1, post: 4066748, member: 67944"
However due to his lack of power, he had a relatively low OB% for someone with that many hits.[/QUOTE]
He very rarely took a walk, 39 walks per 162. Rose, for example, had 72 per, Harper is at 102 per 162.
However due to his lack of power, he had a relatively low OB% for someone with that many hits.[/QUOTE]
He very rarely took a walk, 39 walks per 162. Rose, for example, had 72 per, Harper is at 102 per 162.
He very rarely took a walk, 39 walks per 162. Rose, for example, had 72 per, Harper is at 102 per 162.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Rose had a high walk rate for someone with little power.
It’s actually been said that Ichiro hit bombs in BP and probably could have hit 30+ HR per year. But he didn’t want to do that and drop his average. Shame... would have made him an even better player
Ichiro is honestly everything the yinzers think Clemente was, but significantly better statistically. I really wish he had come to MLB earlier because I think he would have the all time hits record instead of Rose. What an amazing player. To put together 12 consecutive seasons of Hall of Fame production to start a career is nearly unprecedented. Francesca should be disqualified from ever discussing baseball again. He’s a moron. He put together 3000 hits AFTER age 26. Nearly every player in the 3000 hit club started their careers in their early 20s. What a player.
First ballot, right?one of the best five tool players of the modern era. I heard on sport talk, one of the talking heads (Mike Francesca maybe?) said he didn't have enough years in MLB to make the hall of fame. Dude played 16 years (same as Lou Gehrig, BTW).
He very rarely took a walk, 39 walks per 162. Rose, for example, had 72 per, Harper is at 102 per 162.[/QUOTE]
Jim, Ichiro is twice the player. Clemente didn’t walk mich either.
Jim, Ichiro is twice the player. Clemente didn’t walk mich either.[/QUOTE]
We were talking about on-base percentage.
We were talking about on-base percentage.
That's a clueless comment. It has nothing to do with me.
Baseball is about the kids. Kids play and go to see their favorite pro's.
Buy yourself a clue...
SLG of .402 off a BA of .311 ... so his ISO (Isolated Power) was .091, which is really low. And much of that "power" was from his legs, stretching singles into doubles and doubles into triples.
Nobody dislikes that fat buffoon more than me, but that doesn’t sound like something he would have said.
Ichiro was an all out hitter. Didn't walk. Didn't strike out. Just hit
one of the best five tool players of the modern era. I heard on sport talk, one of the talking heads (Mike Francesca maybe?) said he didn't have enough years in MLB to make the hall of fame. Dude played 16 years (same as Lou Gehrig, BTW).
WTF???
3000 hits is an automatic ticket to the HOF.
Maybe, just maybe, his intense focus during BP might be one of the reasons he batted .311 over a 16 yr career. Yaz is in the HoF and he's one of the biggest douches ever.
It's worth noting that they play shorter seasons in Japan (140 games IIRC) so that impacts how many hits he got while playing there.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was Francesca saying that b/c it's an absolutely idiotic argument. Only question for Ichiro in my mind is first ballot or notone of the best five tool players of the modern era. I heard on sport talk, one of the talking heads (Mike Francesca maybe?) said he didn't have enough years in MLB to make the hall of fame. Dude played 16 years (same as Lou Gehrig, BTW).
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Word was Ichiro could belt HRs all day in BP but that wasn’t his play style. Have to think he’s in the HOF without too much fuss.
That's a clueless comment. It has nothing to do with me.
Baseball is about the kids. Kids play and go to see their favorite pro's.
Buy yourself a clue...
Using the POS for any purpose is a complete fail. Talk about WRONG! He is unfamiliar with truth.
True. But the bigger issue is he was facing pitchers who were not MLB caliber 9 out 10 plate appearances. At ages 21-24 in MLB, IMO it’s unlikey he would have been getting 220+ hits per season.
Again, he would have been successful, just not as much so over here.
Yep quite many a douche in the Hall when it came to pre game fandom. Those are the breaks. But from all noted accounts Ichiro couldnt be a more respectful and gentle man.
Leave it to some fans thinking that just because they attend the game they deserve to get an autograph. I suppose if if they did the same thing pre game for Joepa and Joe acted in the same fashion would their feelings be the same about the man?
An attack on a player under the guise of "it's all about the kids". No, it's not.
If it was "all about the kids", then the dad would say "look at this guy getting prepared to work at his craft, so he can be the best he can be- nothing, not even us-can take away his focus. You guys should pay attention to this, and apply the same focus to what you are working on".
Because if it was "all about the kids", this would have been a good learning experience.
He’s an interesting guy to put it mildly. One of the most disciplined athletes of all time. He had a routine that he never wavered from even in the offseason where he did the same workout every day even to the extreme of taking the same number of swings every day. He ate the same meals everyday and had the meals prepared to the second for cooking times, etc.
He is insular. A very difficult relationship with his father in particular.
Nobody covers athletes like the Japanese. They send an army of press but I believe that Ichiro only spoke to one of the Japanese press and froze out all others for years. The other press mob scurried to get anything from Ichiro but they got nada.
As for the HOF, he goes in with a huge vote on first ballot. Anyone who watched him play appreciates his craft. He was a tremendous player. To say he doesn’t go in either means you’re stupid or have a gripe with him. It’s not even close.
He is insular. A very difficult relationship with his father in particular.
Nobody covers athletes like the Japanese. They send an army of press but I believe that Ichiro only spoke to one of the Japanese press and froze out all others for years. The other press mob scurried to get anything from Ichiro but they got nada.
As for the HOF, he goes in with a huge vote on first ballot. Anyone who watched him play appreciates his craft. He was a tremendous player. To say he doesn’t go in either means you’re stupid or have a gripe with him. It’s not even close.
Yep. Rose had a high walk rate for someone with little power.
It’s actually been said that Ichiro hit bombs in BP and probably could have hit 30+ HR per year. But he didn’t want to do that and drop his average. Shame... would have made him an even better player[/QUOTE]
I have the pleasure of playing in baseball tournaments with some ex major league baseball players (Eric Milton, Dante Bichette, a few others) Bichette and he only overlapped by maybe a year but Dante said Ichiro could have been a 25+ HR hitter every year but it would have dropped his avg by 25+ pts. because flyballs would negate his speed for infield hits.
In his first two seasons in Japan, Ichiro played 83 games with 36 hits (.43 hit/game) so he wasn’t running up huge stats as an 18 & 19 year old as might be assumed. After that he had 1242 hits in 868 games in Japan (1.43 h/g) in his final 7 seasons there. Not much difference between first seven seasons in MLB of where he put up 1,592 hits in 1118 games (1.42 h/g). Certainly his numbers could have been lower if he started in MLB from the get go, but his stats are pretty consistent year to year for the first 14 -16 seasons played (minus first two partial seasons in Japan). Even using his MLB career hit/game of 1.16, an additional 7 seasons at ~ 155 games/year (conservative based on his career) would have given him an additional ~1260 hits. That would project to ~4350 hits. Not saying he would be the career leader, but I don’t think it is as much of a stretch as you think.
Imagine what the media crush is gonna be like on the day he gets enshrined at Cooperstown. It will be truly amazing.
Absolutely correct about the media crush on these Japanese athletes. Seeing the media horde that follows Hideki Matsuyama around is ridiculous.
He came to the bigs at age 27 and totaled 3089 hits.
To beat Rose he would need to have had to get 1,167 hits through age 26
If he came up at age 20 he would have had to average 167 hits per year for 7 seasons
If he came up at age 21 he would have had to average 195 hits per year for 6 seasons.
Those are huge numbers for young player in MLB
Rose, From age 22 thru 26, averaged 180 hits per year. Throw in 2 more years as younger player and that average goes down.
Possible he could have done it, but highly unlikely he passes Rose IMO
