I guess I don't get most PSU folks with respect to MSU

[wex18]

Somehow a pedophile that abuses girls is not as evil as a pedophile that abuses boys. It is disgusting.

It also should be noted that the Nassar story failed to pick up much steam for months until some big-name Olympic athletes became involved.
Just like Sandusky probably would not have been a national story if they didn't have the Paterno name to kick around.

 

[indynittany]

Sure, Emmert and Simon absolutely deserve whatever karma is coming their way, but the BOT is really to blame for allowing the public narrative to be that Penn State enabled/covered-up child rape in order to protect the football program. It boggles the mind how that could possibly have happened, or why the University seems to be actively trying NOT to set the record straight when it clearly has a golden opportunity to do so. I mean I get it, but I don't. You know?

+1
Every comparison of Penn State to whatever is happening at MSU is on the BOT.

 

[heckmans]

There seems to be this jubilant feeling around here with respect to the fallout from the Nassar scandal. I guess folks are happy that some of the people who took shots at us are now falling on swords themselves. And I get that feeling, I hate everyone who attacked us unfairly due to ignorance or just to capture the low-hanging fruit as much as the next guy.

But at the same time, I've found 0 seconds of happiness in what's happened with Nassar, not matter who it negatively impacts. I'd rather Penn State live with whatever shame has been unfairly laid upon us for eternity, than get revenge at the expense of a single abused child or woman, let alone hundreds.

Mark Emmert might be in my top 5 people I'd like 5 minutes alone in a room with with no applicable laws. However, I'd rather his career end in a peaceful retirement than see him go down in scandal because hundreds more innocent people were violated.

Just felt the need to say this as I've seen so many threads dedicated to such intense satisfaction at what's so tragically occurred. I expect to now be savagely attacked. Oh well.

It has something to do with stones, glass houses, and the self-righteous.

 

[maxxedout]

There seems to be this jubilant feeling around here...

Thank you for this excellent post. I have been trying to say this and have been roundly criticized.

 

[GregInPitt]

There seems to be this jubilant feeling around here with respect to the fallout from the Nassar scandal. I guess folks are happy that some of the people who took shots at us are now falling on swords themselves. And I get that feeling, I hate everyone who attacked us unfairly due to ignorance or just to capture the low-hanging fruit as much as the next guy.

But at the same time, I've found 0 seconds of happiness in what's happened with Nassar, not matter who it negatively impacts. I'd rather Penn State live with whatever shame has been unfairly laid upon us for eternity, than get revenge at the expense of a single abused child or woman, let alone hundreds.

Mark Emmert might be in my top 5 people I'd like 5 minutes alone in a room with with no applicable laws. However, I'd rather his career end in a peaceful retirement than see him go down in scandal because hundreds more innocent people were violated.

Just felt the need to say this as I've seen so many threads dedicated to such intense satisfaction at what's so tragically occurred. I expect to now be savagely attacked. Oh well.

A few loud voices "around here" are not the feelings of PSU alumni...... but only the feelings of "a few loud voices"..... that may or may not even be PSU alumni.....

 

[maxxedout]

My heart pumps p*ss for msu.

View embedded media

This is a douchey *football* play. These are people's LIVES that we are acting like are a spectator sport. (Plus we shamed MSU last year pretty effectively to clinch the B1G East...). I am not judging you, in particular, in quoting your post. Just venting.

 

[maxxedout]

I don't think anyone is saying that burning down michigan state is the solution. However, if there is factual evidence that people in positions of responsibility at michigan state knew and did not act properly, then they must be held accountable.

Absolutely agreed. They should be fully investigated and punished administratively and/or criminally, as applicable.

 

[maxxedout]

Many are going down the same path with Michigan State as they did with Penn State. The witch hunt and drama for ratings is in full affect. The problem is not going to be address if the focus is lost.

How can Nassar and Sandusky commit evil under the noses of smart, educated people? These two were questioned by authorities and talked their way out of it, convincing others they did nothing wrong.

I understand the Schadenfreude, but this doesn't help the victims, or address the real problem.

THANK YOU. This is a greater societal problem that we should address to save future victims/survivors.

 

[MtNittany]

This is a douchey *football* play. These are people's LIVES that we are acting like are a spectator sport. (Plus we shamed MSU last year pretty effectively to clinch the B1G East...). I am not judging you, in particular, in quoting your post. Just venting.

That's in response to the football and basketball rape camp they run - nothing to do w/ the brave athlete victims and the sicko Bo Schembechler trained doctor.

 

[FightOnState]

I don't see any jubilation here, OP. Anger yes.

 

[nits74]

A few loud voices "around here" are not the feelings of PSU alumni...... but only the feelings of "a few loud voices"..... that may or may not even be PSU alumni.....

Is this a result of a statistically valid analysis you performed? Link? Or perhaps, it was just a statement made by the Alumni Association? It sounds like something that organization would throw out there.

 

[GregInPitt]

Is this a result of a statistically valid analysis you performed? Link? Or perhaps, it was just a statement made by the Alumni Association? It sounds like something that organization would throw out there.

That's the point. There have not been statements made by any organized group representing PSU. So why get upset by a few loud voices? But go ahead if you must.....

 

[nits74]

That's the point. There have not been statements made by any organized group representing PSU. So why get upset by a few loud voices? But go ahead if you must.....

After rereading your post, I think I misinterpreted your meaning. Got it.

P.S. Not to say that I disagree with some of the "loud voices", though.

 

[nittany119]

To the OP... you are (imo) spot on in your opinion.

But the following comments made were equally on point.

Had Emmert put even HALF the zeal into msu he did with JVP ( forever my hero, and anyone who has a problem with that is welcome to say it to my face.. and God help you... you'll need it)... so many young girls would have been spared the depravity of Nassar.

But mister syracuse loverboy had other plans.... he and his band of punks went off half-cocked on penn state and, in particular, on an old man who never could have conceived of such depravity.

Oh but Emmert could.. and THAT is the difference. POS's like emmert and his ilk knew how it worked in the modern world.. Joe had no idea... what happened as slick MQ 'splained it... was a world Joe had no idea even existed.

Just as Joe never really understood that his super strong 260 pounders were not the be-all end-all... they were overmatched by 300 pounders who could do the same things and more athletically. He was man lost in time.. and this case was a classic example... he was out of his element. [Years later he finally came to understand and the tide turned... a tribute to Joe all the more that he could SEE it when most would be forever lost]

None of which stopped Emmert and his bretheren of Satan from piling on.

I wish Emmert a long long long life.. I wish him the enduring pain of his children KNOWING what their father did.. what a monster he is... and what calamity... and the ensuing hell he caused to reign.

Mark Emmert might as well be Satan's perfect vessel. Heck, he might be Satan himself.

So hey Marky... live your life knowinhg what a gutless syncophant you were. And die in shame. Your children knowing that for all your glowing prose and worn out phrases you were nothing but a gutless puke.

Legacy? A man like Joe Paterno has a legacy that will endure time. A twit like mark emmert has the knowledge he was a pip-squeak, a piece of vermin... to be mocked til the end of time.

Nice life you had there Marky.. enjoy your legacy.

Yours and OP are great posts that I fully agree with. The shame tho is that the entire nation knew who Joe and PSU were/are, and if at first they didn't, it sure was splashed in their faces enough. But I venture to say that many people have no clue who the POS Emmert is. The public disdain just won't be there for him, they way he deserves it to be. I hope I'm wrong, as I would love to nothing more than that prick having to live the rest of his life in shame, scorn and disgrace. I am praying for this outcome, as my hate for him is so deep.

 

[MJG-90]

I’m new here but I haven’t seen anything but respect toward the victims of Nassar. All the vitriol is toward those at MSU that are now coming across as hypocrites. Despite all the “Ped State” references I’ve seen on other forums, I haven’t seen anyone here call them “MolestAgain State” or any other inappropriate nicknames.

 

[Ranger Dan]

There seems to be this jubilant feeling around here with respect to the fallout from the Nassar scandal. I guess folks are happy that some of the people who took shots at us are now falling on swords themselves. And I get that feeling, I hate everyone who attacked us unfairly due to ignorance or just to capture the low-hanging fruit as much as the next guy.

But at the same time, I've found 0 seconds of happiness in what's happened with Nassar, not matter who it negatively impacts. I'd rather Penn State live with whatever shame has been unfairly laid upon us for eternity, than get revenge at the expense of a single abused child or woman, let alone hundreds.

Mark Emmert might be in my top 5 people I'd like 5 minutes alone in a room with with no applicable laws. However, I'd rather his career end in a peaceful retirement than see him go down in scandal because hundreds more innocent people were violated.

Just felt the need to say this as I've seen so many threads dedicated to such intense satisfaction at what's so tragically occurred. I expect to now be savagely attacked. Oh well.

I agree and have posted similar comments. This isn’t good for anyone, not even for Penn State’s reputation.

 

[demlion]

I totally am in support of MSU fans and alums...I know what we went through so I take no joy in their suffering. A rivalry should not involve smearing your rival over a crime...especially one this heinous. Keep this in mind...only a few people are responsible for this....there is no reason to judge the entire alumni group or fanbase.

Fair point. But I'm not sure I even know a person who went to MSU. Certainly none of my close friends did.

 

[demlion]

On social media I do occasionally attack MSU. It is not out of jubilation or revenge, but disgust. The moral outrage from the media and general public is so much less with MSU. I really think a big part of it, that it was girls abused at MSU and boys abused at TSM. I have heard people say that PSU worse because PSU only involved minors. They didn't even know that minors were involved at MSU, in some reports I have seen as young as 6. I have heard that since everybody kept quiet, that they must have enjoyed it.

Somehow a pedophile that abuses girls is not as evil as a pedophile that abuses boys. It is disgusting.

I think I know what you are trying to say, but an adult male abusing children is hideous. As a father of daughters, believe me, I would kill you just as dead.

 

[jbenedict]

After what happened to Penn State, given the facts and that no other school that actually screwed up has suffered a fate remotely similar, f*ck everybody. They can all f*ck themselves.

Eloquently said. Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[Mixolydian]

I think I know what you are trying to say, but an adult male abusing children is hideous. As a father of daughters, believe me, I would kill you just as dead and get away with it.

FIFY. Or me.

 

[psudsl08]

Let's put it like this. Unlike Pitt and many of our fellow Big Ten schools, nobody is rejoicing over what happened at MSU, or feigning concern for the well being of sexual assault victims, for any reason, including the purpose of denigrating their program and insulting their fans and alumni.

The Sandusky matter provided a great opportunity to educate the masses on how nice guy/acquaintance offenders effectively groom professionals, laypersons and victims into believing that they are socially awkward, but good hearted people. The public could have learned about compliant child victimization and how certain behaviors exhibited by a child that fall short of reporting are signs that they were abused. The public could have learned more about why otherwise reputable professionals fail to report nice guy offenders to law enforcement based upon years and decades of relationship building and grooming behaviors.

Instead, we had Louis Freeh attempt to connect complex social behaviors and regrettable outcomes to "culture problems" surrounding sports, without a shred of evidence suggesting that football was even considered by any party who failed to act. Emmert, Ed Ray (who didn't even read any of the reports) and Lou Anna were more than happy to sacrifice a blue blood football program and regional businesses in Pennsylvania for nothing more than PR purposes. And since having a meaningful discussion about sexual abuse behavior is logically and emotionally difficult for the average person, the public is content with a simple conclusion that puts everything to bed.

MSU deserves to be led by a competent BOT, have a fair NCAA investigation, and have their internal investigation be led by child abuse experts. But nothing will change until powerful hypocrites are excoriated for their impulsive, self-serving behavior.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Maybe the jack holes on Red Cedar can dispense with calling us Ped State from now on. It’s the least they can do

 

[MohawkLion]

It’s a little selfish, but rightfully so. While Penn State alums and those connected to the university wanted to understand what happened, everyone on the outside piled on to condemn everyone. Kick them out of the conference. Blah blah blah. The same speech that Lou Simon used the word pervasive to describe the PSU community, she went on to talk about how they’re going to do a great job of reporting such travesties as the Sandusky mess and protect everyone. Well, 6 years later, that dude got to eat his words. It’s also infuriating that these idiots learned NOTHING from the Sandusky situation. And on top of the Nasser stuff, they’re ignoring sexual assault by their own athletes. It just makes the NCAA’s initial purpose of using PSU as an example just the biggest joke.

I’m not saying it’s right, but this school specifically did not take the high road when it came to Sandusky and really dug themselves a hole.

 

[Class of 67]

However, the

We don't know exactly what happened at MSU any more than most knew what exactly happened at PSU. My guess is that MSU failed to recognize the seriousness of the allegations against Nassar. I think it was more of a screw up than a cover up because I simply can't imagine anybody knowingly allowing him to assault women. I'm not judging but I can see the motive for sweeping sexual assault of football and basketball players under the rug since there's lots of money involved. Maybe we'll see what facts come out. Maybe not. Maybe their "independent" counsel will act sanctimonious use this opportunity to grandstand.

However, the basketball and football programs may indeed have been involved in covering up athlete sexual abuse. We'll see.

 

[Class of 67]

My interest in this is to watch how punishment is handled compared to what happened to Penn State. Will there be fines levied by the B1G and NCAA, and how will that be distributed? Will BB be eligible for post-season? Will FB get a bowl game? How will civil suits be handled? More resignations? Jail time? Sanctions? Recruiting restrictions? Some/most of this may not happen until the AG completes an investigation. I can wait. There's enough overlap in the two scandals that there needs to be significant parity in justice served.

 

[jbenedict]

There seems to be this jubilant feeling around here with respect to the fallout from the Nassar scandal. I guess folks are happy that some of the people who took shots at us are now falling on swords themselves. And I get that feeling, I hate everyone who attacked us unfairly due to ignorance or just to capture the low-hanging fruit as much as the next guy.

But at the same time, I've found 0 seconds of happiness in what's happened with Nassar, not matter who it negatively impacts. I'd rather Penn State live with whatever shame has been unfairly laid upon us for eternity, than get revenge at the expense of a single abused child or woman, let alone hundreds.

Mark Emmert might be in my top 5 people I'd like 5 minutes alone in a room with with no applicable laws. However, I'd rather his career end in a peaceful retirement than see him go down in scandal because hundreds more innocent people were violated.

Just felt the need to say this as I've seen so many threads dedicated to such intense satisfaction at what's so tragically occurred. I expect to now be savagely attacked. Oh well.

WB how is Duke?

 

[ouirpsu]

Maybe the jack holes on Red Cedar can dispense with calling us Ped State from now on. It’s the least they can do

Hasn't happened yet. Ironically, many posters are saying Izzo and Dantonio are being unfairly targeted by the media, and that anyone who knows them knows they are really good guys...unlike Joe Paterno who clearly covered up the rape of young boys. It's seriously hypocritical and sadly ironic.

 

[PSUCYCLING]

It’s a little selfish, but rightfully so. While Penn State alums and those connected to the university wanted to understand what happened, everyone on the outside piled on to condemn everyone. Kick them out of the conference. Blah blah blah. The same speech that Lou Simon used the word pervasive to describe the PSU community, she went on to talk about how they’re going to do a great job of reporting such travesties as the Sandusky mess and protect everyone. Well, 6 years later, that dude got to eat his words. It’s also infuriating that these idiots learned NOTHING from the Sandusky situation. And on top of the Nasser stuff, they’re ignoring sexual assault by their own athletes. It just makes the NCAA’s initial purpose of using PSU as an example just the biggest joke.

I’m not saying it’s right, but this school specifically did not take the high road when it came to Sandusky and really dug themselves a hole.

If anything, the Sandusky scandal should have been a call to action for the rest of the Big Ten schools to tighten up how they deal with sexual assaults on campus. The compliance related aspects of the Consent Decree and Freeh report should have been enacted at ALL Big Ten Universities in 2013. Sadly, they were not and an attitude of it can’t happen here seems to remain at all of the other conference schools including sadly MSU.

 

[kgilbert78]

there are no winners in any of this- and yes, a few here seem to think that there are

Yeah, there are "winners". Of a sort. I consider those who had the courage to tell their story "winners". Now. And those potential victims that might be saved by that courage (and have been saved, as Nassar can no longer prey on them). Winners too. But the proper lessons need to be learned from this or it will end up being in vain.

 

[wbcincy]

Actually, current and future victims can get a "win" here, IF YOU consider stopping their predators by using the priniples set forth by Clemente and others a win as I do.

Just an unwavering adherence to the "2 adults, no 1on 1" rule will stop a majority of it. Enforce that rule and you make people take this seriously.

But you only get there by learning the lessons, and you only do that through publicity.

A couple thoughts on this as I agree I hope the lessons of Clemente et al are someday learned.

First, wasn't one of Clemente's main points that we shouldnt use hindsight to say that everyone made aware of allegations against a "nice guy predator" are guilty of covering up? The whole point is that they have fooled the entire community. So we shouldn't presume nefarious intent upon everyone who heard something about the guy, because there's a reason they didn't take it seriously. Yet, with Michigan State, we Penn Staters have seemed more than happy to apply the same "cover up" nonsense that was thrust on Joe etc to MSU admin. How is that furthering the Clemente point? That's just perpetuating the status quo, that these things are obvious and anyone who didn't report immediately was just covering up. The lesson being taught should be that you have to take every accusation seriously, because you'll be fooled by these "nice guys." Instead, the current MSU narrative is the same as PSU, that they knew and intentionally covered up. That doesn't help advance Clemente's point IMO.

Second, there are victims who said Nassar abused them even while their parents were in the room. How this could occur is beyond me, but apparently the 2 adults rule wouldn't even prevent all situations. It's an extraordinarily frightful thought that it could be happening in front of you and you don't even know.

 

[Obliviax]

A couple thoughts on this as I agree I hope the lessons of Clemente et al are someday learned.

First, wasn't one of Clemente's main points that we shouldnt use hindsight to say that everyone made aware of allegations against a "nice guy predator" are guilty of covering up? The whole point is that they have fooled the entire community. So we shouldn't presume nefarious intent upon everyone who heard something about the guy, because there's a reason they didn't take it seriously. Yet, with Michigan State, we Penn Staters have seemed more than happy to apply the same "cover up" nonsense that was thrust on Joe etc to MSU admin. How is that furthering the Clemente point? That's just perpetuating the status quo, that these things are obvious and anyone who didn't report immediately was just covering up. The lesson being taught should be that you have to take every accusation seriously, because you'll be fooled by these "nice guys." Instead, the current MSU narrative is the same as PSU, that they knew and intentionally covered up. That doesn't help advance Clemente's point IMO.

Second, there are victims who said Nassar abused them even while their parents were in the room. How this could occur is beyond me, but apparently the 2 adults rule wouldn't even prevent all situations. It's an extraordinarily frightful thought that it could be happening in front of you and you don't even know.

Some good points, wbcincy. Was telling someone this weekend that I spent several moments behind a screen as a kid having to turn my head to the left and cough while a Dr. held my nut sack. It was uncomfortable but always considered it Dr. stuff. If the Dr. got arrested for molestation, I would have wondered. Perhaps I would file a lawsuit. Point being a Dr. ends up having a lot of latitude for what they do.

 

[indynittany]

...Just an unwavering adherence to the "2 adults, no 1on 1" rule will stop a majority of it. Enforce that rule and you make people take this seriously.....

I believe that's what Schultz was trying to say in this note:

1) Tell J.S. to avoid bringing children alone into Lasch Bldg.d

It got him a jail sentence.

 

[Royal_Coaster]

there are victims who said Nassar abused them even while their parents were in the room. How this could occur is beyond me, but apparently the 2 adults rule wouldn't even prevent all situations. It's an extraordinarily frightful thought that it could be happening in front of you and you don't even know.

That's how grooming works. He was the great Larry Nassar, trainer of Olympic stars. He told everyone that was he was doing was a legitimate medical treatment, and nobody thought it was strange, nobody thought to follow up or ask questions, because he was the great Dr. Nassar. Didn't he even give presentations on his "techniques" at conferences? No other professionals called him out on this bullshit?

But common, untrained people were supposed to see what Nassar was doing. Just like Paterno was supposed to see there was something off about Sandusky after the state investigated and found nothing to take legal action on, and kept letting him foster and adopt kids, and hailed him and his charity asa champion of poor, underprivileged kids.

My own feelings about Emmert, Simon, etc., is that they set the new rules to play by after they came down on PSU. They were so sure that what happened here was something particular to our culture that it would never happen anywhere else, ever again. So they made it look like they were putting in new rules mainly to throttle us, that they didn't bother to follow themselves. And look what happened. They were so intent on claiming Sandusky happened because we were inherently bad people who cared more about winning games than caring about kids. It's humorous watching them try to stutter and explain just how "pervasive" the problem is.

They sowed. Now they get to reap.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Fair point. But I'm not sure I even know a person who went to MSU. Certainly none of my close friends did.

I know many MSU grads as they have a superior turf mgt. program and many are/were contemporaries from my past. All good people, fun back and forth on sports competition with support for us and respect all the time.

These incidents happened within the MSU sports facilities except for the espn police report references to athletes expanding the whole deal. Average MSU alums are outraged at what happened, I know because they have told me so.

The outrage here noted I see as directed at Simon's outrageous attacks and MSU board posters who piled on like flies on dung, fast and furious with vengeance. AT emmert for his penal love affair and vengeance toward PSU. This is the directed anger of what I read here. There is sympathy and hope for the victims and amazement at over a hundred incidents of abuse and assault hidden for years after reporting over and over and over. It's the perfect storm for anger at an unjust punisher for alleged crimes not committed while they were in the midst of doing the same thing they accused PSU of doing and slamming us.

 

[demlion]

A couple thoughts on this as I agree I hope the lessons of Clemente et al are someday learned.

First, wasn't one of Clemente's main points that we shouldnt use hindsight to say that everyone made aware of allegations against a "nice guy predator" are guilty of covering up? The whole point is that they have fooled the entire community. So we shouldn't presume nefarious intent upon everyone who heard something about the guy, because there's a reason they didn't take it seriously. Yet, with Michigan State, we Penn Staters have seemed more than happy to apply the same "cover up" nonsense that was thrust on Joe etc to MSU admin. How is that furthering the Clemente point? That's just perpetuating the status quo, that these things are obvious and anyone who didn't report immediately was just covering up. The lesson being taught should be that you have to take every accusation seriously, because you'll be fooled by these "nice guys." Instead, the current MSU narrative is the same as PSU, that they knew and intentionally covered up. That doesn't help advance Clemente's point IMO.

Second, there are victims who said Nassar abused them even while their parents were in the room. How this could occur is beyond me, but apparently the 2 adults rule wouldn't even prevent all situations. It's an extraordinarily frightful thought that it could be happening in front of you and you don't even know.

Uh, yeah. Here on a private message board, that's what we say.

Nassar used drapes and screens. As I understood it, the parents could not see, and were not medically trained, anyway. A female person with medical training might have made that different
Especially the "no gloves" part.