https://www.yahoo.com/gma/section-b...ong-storm-113032054--abc-news-topstories.html
Ugh.
Step? Looking forward to your comments on this.
Ugh.
Step? Looking forward to your comments on this.
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https://www.yahoo.com/gma/section-b...ong-storm-113032054--abc-news-topstories.html
Ugh.
Step? Looking forward to your comments on this.
That’s horrifying.https://www.yahoo.com/gma/section-b...ong-storm-113032054--abc-news-topstories.html
Ugh.
Step? Looking forward to your comments on this.
YIKES, didn't know anything about this, thanks ro.https://www.yahoo.com/gma/section-b...ong-storm-113032054--abc-news-topstories.html
Ugh.
Step? Looking forward to your comments on this.
LOL Fish, do that now and you may knock a structural component section from the bridge.Holy $hit.
I did an internship with PennDOT as a bridge inspector back in the day between my SO and JR years at Penn State, so this hits home a little bit.
We had a big blue van with a big orange "BRIDGE INSPECTION" sign on it -- With a flashing light. Whenever I was inspecting the top side of the deck, I used to wait for a car to be approaching the bridge, then I would kick the bridge a little (like "kicking the tires") and do a big "check mark" motion to my clip board. Lol -- Sometimes I really crack myself up.
YIKES, didn't know anything about this, thanks ro.
"Suddenly the bridge came down with everything it was carrying. It was really an apocalyptic scene. I couldn't believe my eyes," Megna said.
WTF? I looked at the short video & sure enough there was a flash
"Witnesses said the bridge toppled after it was struck by lightning."
WTH?
What do you imagine ro? Strange ..is it confirmed that the structure was hit by lightening?
Yeah, you gotta be real careful with bridges. I work with local County engineers and I see/hear horror stories of bridges deteriorating due to weather or other factors. Some older bridges have the concrete abutments start chipping away, and you see how the iron girders underneath get rusted away.
Some? That's about 80% of them in North/central PA. Lol
ro, not sure of the material for the pylons (I guess three pylons) assuming they are reinforced concrete constructed in 1967+/-. Look in the lower left of this picture, is that a leg of the pylon?Yeah, you gotta be real careful with bridges. I work with local County engineers and I see/hear horror stories of bridges deteriorating due to weather or other factors. Some older bridges have the concrete abutments start chipping away, and you see how the iron girders underneath get rusted away.
It always turns out that the mafia built these things and used substandard materials.ro, not sure of the material for the pylons (I guess three pylons) assuming they are reinforced concrete constructed in 1967+/-. Look in the lower left of this picture, is that a leg of the pylon?
The reinforcement just doesn’t look right. Today’s codes would require a minimum of 1% area of reinforcement in a building column section, not sure what AASHTO requires as minimum. I have been active away in major bridges since 1976. Those sections are huge and would be under reinforced by today’s standards. It doesn’t even appear there’s ½”% in the sections.
This is a f’n huge concrete structure with supposed factors of safety of 3+. Lightning bringing the bridge down, I doubt it. Construction in 1966….. poor or incomplete construction inspection, contractors cut corners on material specs, was the bridge constructed as per engineering design meaning design changes during construction, and so on. Typical problems discovered after the fact.
Naturally, this is going to be a structural failure, but what the heck was so overwhelming to exceed the structures safety factors to cause the domino effect. The police are reporting the failure is due to tropical “storm blast”.
When my F-i-Law was alive and active, I was introduced to many fine and interesting Italians over the years. I attended several Italian American banquets at Gus Genetti’s in Wilkes-Barre and picnics at Scarlet Lake. I Never really discussed any construction methods with persons I was introduced to. I think sub-standard construction was one of the codes in the specifications.It always turns out that the mafia built these things and used substandard materials.
Not that I'm aware, I would believe the entire bridge i one huge lightning ground. Could be wrong, i just don't remember any on the larger bridges i worken on at Michael Baker Jr. in Harrisburg. good night ro, close to quitting time.Odd that lightning would have done that - they all have lightning rods, no?
Received this up date on the bridge a short time ago ro,https://www.yahoo.com/gma/section-b...ong-storm-113032054--abc-news-topstories.html
Ugh.
Step? Looking forward to your comments on this.
I just received this from the ASCE, better article. Seems that this elephant was on borrowed time from disaster.https://www.yahoo.com/gma/section-b...ong-storm-113032054--abc-news-topstories.html
Ugh.
Step? Looking forward to your comments on this.
As i mentioned I a previous post to Pardlion, Zig........What is wrong with Italian Engineering and Construction methods? ...
I just received this from the ASCE, better article. Seems that this elephant was on borrowed time from disaster.
link: https://www.ien.com/product-develop...ame-begins-as-italy-bridge-death-toll-hits-39
The bridge collapse has reignited a longstanding debate about the state of Italian infrastructure. Corriere Della Sera reported that four other bridges have collapsed in the past five years.
The Morandi bridge has been riddled with structural problems since its construction in 1967, which has led to expensive maintenance and repeated criticism from engineering experts. On Tuesday the specialist engineering website Ingegneri.info published a piece that highlighted longstanding concerns over the bridge, calling it “a tragedy waiting to happen”.
The architect Renzo Piano told La Repubblica that “bridges do not collapse by accident”. “I don’t know what happened yet; I don’t have enough information,” he said. “What I can say is that I don’t believe that … nature is uncontrollable, that lightning strikes and rain [cannot be dealt with].”
Play Video
1:17
Genoa motorway bridge collapse caught on camera – video report
Antonio Brencich, an engineering professor at the University of Genoa, said it would have been impossible to foresee Tuesday’s disaster because the bridge, as it was designed, did not allow accurate checks on the status of the pylons.
Two years ago Brencich suggested in a study that the best approach with bridges like the Morandi would be to demolish them and start again. “The materials that had been used to build that bridge were destined to deteriorate quickly,” he said on Wednesday.
What the heck is this guy talking about, is the concrete and steel not in accordance in specifications for 1967? This is an interesting statment.
It should be an interesting preliminary report on the collapse. The increase in the AADT may be greater than anticipated in the original design future vehicle volume. This bridge is only 50 years old. I would imagine a structure of this type would have a fatigue life cycle of at least 100 years.I highlighted the last sentence - that is the issue with a lot of the bridges my engineers see locally. Not sure of codes and specs at that time. I would imagine that this part of Italy, much like NE US, has seen a significant increase in vehicular traffic, beyond what they were designed for. That has led to deterioration of concrete and other physical issues that have led to the bridges out living their life cycle.
The concrete sucked, and failed, resulting in corrosion of the structural steel and eventual catastrophic system failure.It should be an interesting preliminary report on the collapse. The increase in the AADT may be greater than anticipated in the original design future vehicle volume. This bridge is only 50 years old. I would imagine a structure of this type would have a fatigue life cycle of at least 100 years.
I would believe if the AADT increased over a 50 year time period, the bridge should be adequate in performance.
I don’t know the European truck and lane loading, but if similar to ours, it didn’t change too much. The current HL-93 truck loading is similar to the HS-44 from the 60’s. I’m assuming lane loading hasn’t changed drastically. Granted the current design approach taken today is much different with the limit states replacing the old working stress-strength methods.
I believe the rabbit hole is deeper than loading and fatigue cycles.
And that is the problem - hiring cheap consultants. $500? pfft - should be $5000.The concrete sucked, and failed, resulting in corrosion of the structural steel and eventual catastrophic system failure.
Thank you, that will be $500.
It always turns out that the mafia built these things and used substandard materials.
I'm a cheap date.And that is the problem - hiring cheap consultants. $500? pfft - should be $5000.
LOL ro, I don't have time to comment, but Pardlion is being too modest, nobody works for $500 today.And that is the problem - hiring cheap consultants. $500? pfft - should be $5000.
I'm a cheap date.
I forgot to add: The outcome of the inquiry will be that dead guys are to blame.
Appears to be under designed. Small rebar and not nearly enough of them at first glance. Not sure what kind of design criteria was used back then but the traffic should not be a factor. The way you estimate loading on a bridge along with the factors of safety you use, you could stack trucks on top of each other and it would still be fine (at least if it was designed now).ro, not sure of the material for the pylons (I guess three pylons) assuming they are reinforced concrete constructed in 1967+/-. Look in the lower left of this picture, is that a leg of the pylon?
The reinforcement just doesn’t look right. Today’s codes would require a minimum of 1% area of reinforcement in a building column section, not sure what AASHTO requires as minimum. I have been active away in major bridges since 1976. Those sections are huge and would be under reinforced by today’s standards. It doesn’t even appear there’s ½”% in the sections.
This is a f’n huge concrete structure with supposed factors of safety of 3+. Lightning bringing the bridge down, I doubt it. Construction in 1966….. poor or incomplete construction inspection, contractors cut corners on material specs, was the bridge constructed as per engineering design meaning design changes during construction, and so on. Typical problems discovered after the fact.
Naturally, this is going to be a structural failure, but what the heck was so overwhelming to exceed the structures safety factors to cause the domino effect. The police are reporting the failure is due to tropical “storm blast”.
I was leaning that way also, yesterday, but after reading the highlighted statement below, I'm thinking possibly an inadequate design, leading to the cables failing. Of course these are just ideas thrown out there because we don't have the bridge drawings.Appears to be under designed. Small rebar and not nearly enough of them at first glance. Not sure what kind of design criteria was used back then but the traffic should not be a factor. The way you estimate loading on a bridge along with the factors of safety you use, you could stack trucks on top of each other and it would still be fine (at least if it was designed now).
What is wrong with Italian Engineering and Construction methods? ...
I’m leaning towards poor construction standards. How will they bridge the gap?
LOL, I’m sensing “tilting” rather than leaning...I’m leaning towards poor construction standards. How will they bridge the gap?
You may want make a note to Josh Sapiero the girl was of legal age when I posted the picture
Here ya go Pardlion, from the article tom McA provided in this thread....It always turns out that the mafia built these things and used substandard materials.
Thanks much Tom for this post. The pre-stressed concrete stays are completly different (night-day) concerning the information of "concrete encased steel stays" from the article I provided.he cable-stayed Morandi Bridge in Genoa, Italy, collapsed on Tuesday. This bridge uses very few stays, which were constructed from pre-stressed concrete instead of steel cables. The collapse occurred at one of the trestles, a vertical framework of upside-down V’s used for support.