Are you forgetting about Tressel and the 1xNC and 6xB10 championships during that span? OSU was pretty good during those years.
How many of you would prefer the PSU football records the 20 years before Franklin to his 10 year record.
- Thread starter Rip_E_2_Joe_PA
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I love Joe, but your memory is selective at best. In his later years against top competition, Joe’s teams turtled up frequently, and you could tell they weren’t going to be competitive midway through the first quarter.
What are you guys talking about, Joe coached with an 85/25 limit for about 20 years.
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They didn't try to run Morelli, they adapted the offense. If you go back and watch those games he constantly had receivers running open.
My memory isn't selective. It just doesn't define Paterno's entire career by the last few years. It remembers and considers all of it. Do you want your entire life defined by your worst days? Franklin may be a decent coach but Paterno was better. Get back to me when Franklin gets his 400th win.
So you'd recommend we dump Franklin for someone cheaper who can give us the same or just slightly worse results?
So we have nuts on this board that think James Franklin is a better coach than Paterno that’s how stupid people really are
So, you are ok with a bunch of 4 loss seasons with an 11-2 sprinkled in there with a win over a mediocre OSU or UM in there down years. That is given you get a once in a great while 1982, 1994esque year in there. The 70's were not twilight years. 1994 should have been a national championship year but for the envy of the B1G to the point they claimed it was a down year because outsider PSU ran the table.
There are long stretches of down other than in Joes twilight years btw and I thought and still think the absolute world of Joe Paterno as a coach and a man but these are quite different times in the state of college football. To deny that is pure delusion.
Joe coached in a time where assistant coaches were relatively loyal and his staff was among the most loyal in the game. There was no 4 team playoff which made getting in to the party much like the movie groundhog day.
My only point in the original post is that achievements and performance come in the context of the times and circumstances. Holding one coaches performance to that of others that coached in a different era is pure folly.
Of course not. Why do you put words in my mouth?
Joe was unique. He never even asked for a contract. Everybody knew that was going to end once Joe was gone.
I simply responded to the original post by saying that Joe stayed too long and 2000-2004 were horrible BUT Joe's larger body of work including the last 7 years yielded better results than Franklin. One poster said it was easier for Joe because OSU & UM are better now. I responded by saying PSU is paying one of the higher coaching salaries in the country to keep up with the top teams.
I did exactly that. Joe was the 2nd lowest in the BiG. I think Franklin is 2nd highest now that Tucker is gone at MSU.
I see it the opposite way. What happens on the field is the only thing that's real. Titles, rankings and awards are all fabricated.
Tressel also had a five loss season, a four loss season and a three loss season, that’s not happening to OSU in Franklin’s tenure. And how did PSU do against OSU during the Tressel years? Or the Lloyd Carr years at Michigan?
That’s like saying you’re only going to consider a pitcher great when he matches Cy Young’s win total. No coach would be able to duplicate Paterno these days because he would have been fired multiple times throughout his career especially in the early 2000’s.
While I like Franklin, I sure as hell ain’t claiming he’s better than Paterno who was one of, if not the greatest, college coach ever. My only complaint with Joe, which I said at the time, was he should have retired 10 years before the end.
also, nobody believed that those figures were Paterno's total compensation since the school had long not been required to report anything about it. It was probably 50%-100% more than that, at a minimum.
Apparently, according to some on this board, as these other coaches get paid more and more, Franklin gets better and better because they’re only upset about Franklin because of what he’s getting paid. Maybe we should just keep hiring guys that are looking to break into the big time, pay them less than every other coach, then do it again as the coach gains experience. That way we could always have the lowest paid coach.
yeah i don't get that either. the griping over Franklin's pay does not match with the constant demand for a coach who gets us to the playoff.
Why are you changing the premise of your original thread post?
why are you changing the premise of your original post within this thread? Did you not originally post regarding the “previous 20 years before CJF’s 10 years”? Why are you going back to the 70’s and 80’s with your rebuttal to my post? If you’re going to do such a thing then go back and edit your original post to something of the effect of “would you rather have Joe Paterno’s lifetime record versus Franklin's lifetime record at PSU”.
Again, I would much rather have some 4 loss seasons sprinkled in with some championships and good wins versus top talent than to be perennially 11-2 with no chance at a championship and guaranteed losses to both UM and OSU.
The idea that being guaranteed 11-2 or 10-3 every year is better than having a championship sprinkled in with some 3 and 4 loss seasons is a weird and silly argument. Why would anyone want to be consistently guaranteed no championships in a sport where you play for championships?
You do realize you’re arguing for a socialist ideology?
And they’re saying Franklin gets paid too much to be losing to these other teams yet their coaches make the same or more than Franklin. So what are those coaches getting paid to do? Lose to Franklin?
The correct answer should be if you’re unsatisfied with Franklin’s tenure then you should have been unsatisfied with Paterno’s last 20 years, not using selective memory to explain away Joe’s last 20 years and the condition of the program Franklin took over. Consistency would be a nice thing in judging results.
they are the same ones who believe Paterno and his staff were working on a volunteer basis and that every season was 1986 and 1994 combined. constantly talking about 2005 and forgetting that all the years around it were total mediocrity
Using how they judge Franklin, nearly all of those years under Paterno were absolute failures. Even 2005 was a failure because they lost to Michigan and didn’t win a NC. And if Franklin would have had an undefeated season this year and not gotten into the playoffs (aka FSU) it would have been Franklin’s fault for not scheduling a hard enough OOC schedule and the season would have been another failure.
Paterno was 3-6 vs Tressel. CJF is 1-9 vs Meyer and Day. I’ll take Paterno.
Paterno was 2-9 against Carr. CJF is 3-7 against UM. That’s a push for me. I’ll still take Paterno because once in a while, during his twilight years, he’ll still find a way to win a championship.
Anything else?
yeah. i get it, everyone was pulling for Paterno to win another title and it was a fun time. but we are 20 years on from it. Franklin has the program as good as it was in the 1990s, which is much better than it was when he found it. he should get a lot of credit for that because the wrong guy could have easily messed it up
lol, you are a socialist. There is no correct answer. It’s completely subjective. Please define “selective memory to explain away Joe’s last 20 years.
Again, why did you reply with context outside the conditions stated in your original post in order to support your original post? Why not just go back and edit your original post for better accuracy? I know why and so do you.
Paterno would beat osu about every 3 or 4 years. problem was, the remaining ones would be totally uncompetitive. and I don't know why anyone would look favorably on Joes record against Carr. he lost those games as soon as the schedule came out
I am not changing the premise of my original post. You are trying to change it. Which W-L record do you prefer. If you or your kind want to take out Joes aged years, I just provided an alternative. But 1999 was what it was.
I was as frustrated as the next person watching those UM games against Carr. However, if we’re going to argue for consistency, then I’ll consistently take losses to UM under Joe vs consistently taking losses under Franklin. Why? Because under Joe we’d get a few championships. Under Franklin we will not get a few championships.
I’m not arguing an alternative. I’m arguing the context of your original post.
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Do you really think an 18 year old kid who was 7 years old when the Sandusky thing was in the news would be discouraged to attend PSU?
I do not like the fact that Franklin has such a bad record against OSU. However it does seem like he is just a few players away from beating them. i couldn't say that about some of those teams in the prior regime
True. However, he’s had a decade to prove he can do it. Now, the common argument has become, “he’s only a few players away”. Let’s be honest, the majority of those losses happened due to poor X’s and O’s, poor time management, poor in game decision making, and just overall poor coaching. He’s had the “right” kids all along. He hasn’t had the correct approach all along.
it's a dismal record, but he has been more respectable against them in some ways. remember the last year of o'brien when we got destroyed vs osu; the next year franklin took them to 2 ot. stuff like that is an improvement, however frustratingly he is losing every time ( including multiple 1-point losses )
CJF took OSU to overtime and beat OSU with O’brien’s recruits and “tough” carryovers from the Joe years. He has yet to beat them with his own recruits.
ok, but o'brien did a terrible job against them with basically the same players. so credit where due
Funny how this all coincides with the timeline of joining the B10. Pure coincidence I’m certain of it.
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