Grad Transfer Rule: Should it be eliminated?

[StinkStankStunk]

If you want to consider them true students, then they shouldn't be penalized if they want to transfer schools.

If a student on the debate team wants to transfer to Michigan because they have a better debate team, he can do so and not have to sit a year out.

They are either students or contracted athletes, can't be both.

This

 

[StinkStankStunk]

You might be right but how would such fluidity play out? Can you imagine the recruitment issues when existing underclass college players are all "in play" every year? It might turn into a bidding war. Does anyone trust the NCAA to manage that CF?

Aside from giving control to the "student" (actually, aside from NOT TAKING the control away from the student)....how is it any different from the current system?



Football coaches attend IMG Summer Camp:

 

[LafayetteBear]

Get rid of the rule because it hurts your school?

I'm not making that argument. That would be a losing argument. There are principled arguments to be made both for and against this rule. My only point was that the experience a given school has with this rule is inevitably gonna color the opinions of its alums and fans.

 

[Woodpecker]

how is it any different from the current system?

Seems to me to be at least 4 times worse: current recruitment of high schoolers + recruitment of college freshmen, sophs, and juniors.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Seems to me to be at least 4 times worse: current recruitment of high schoolers + recruitment of college freshmen, sophs, and juniors.

1 - Worse for WHO?
2 - Doesn't the NCAA already have several volumes of regulations limiting/forbidding "recruitment" of players? Including potential transfers?

 

[Art]

You might be right but how would such fluidity play out? Can you imagine the recruitment issues when existing underclass college players are all "in play" every year? It might turn into a bidding war. Does anyone trust the NCAA to manage that CF?

The beauty of that is that the NCAA pretty much has to disappear. If you want to bring order to that scenario, you need a players' union and a collective bargaining agreement. I'm happy with chaos or order.

 

[Nosoj]

Why does the Idiot Store have so much trouble with their delivery service?

Those "Bags O' Idiots" were clearly shipped with labels indicating Columbus, Ohio......and yet, they continue to show up on our doorstep.

Ur rite, as a Bukeye I'm just tryin my best to make the letters show up on this fancy internet machine box.

You can feel free to ignore me (click on my name, or if that's too hard for you, the picture with the colors over on the left side of your screen [that's the side that your pointer and thumb make an "L" when you hold them up] then click on the letters that look like this: Ignore), but if you don't you can rest assured that your opinion on what I post will continue to mean absolutely nothing to me, and any "clever" remarks like the above will be forgotten either 1) the instant I scroll past them to the next post, or if I happen to be bored (like now) 2) the instant I finish my response. I will continue to happily live my life as I derive exactly zero of my self-worth or self-esteem from what strangers on an internet message board think of me.

Have a terrific afternoon.

 

[Woodpecker]

1 - Worse for WHO?
2 - Doesn't the NCAA already have several volumes of regulations limiting/forbidding "recruitment" of players? Including potential transfers?

I guess it's a false assumtion on my part. I thought that current players are not routinely recruited by other teams because of the existing transfer limitations. I thought that situation might change if those restrictions were lifted. Maybe everything would stay the same; I just didn't think so. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. For example, if Saquon transfered to [insert heinous program here] next year, that would be his right but I'd certainly wonder if one of their coaches might have contacted him outside of the permissible period. I suppose that I should just trust the NCAA to enforce those several volumes of regulations but, for some reason, I don't.

 

[21Guns]

I don't get all the negativity about this rule. To qualify, you need to have received an undergraduate degree. That means you have been there at least 3 years (most 4) and gone to class. That sounds like the definition of a student-athlete to me. So what if the kid wants to be closer to home, maybe get some playing time, etc and take graduate level courses. He has fulfilled his requirement to the school. I am in favor of it and think it is a very good rule. I really don't care if they get their graduate degree or not, these kids who have degrees are not the athletes we need to be worrying about.

The rule goes against the spirit of the game, with that said, if we could use the rule like other power five programs, then that would be fantastic: Instead, while other teams are getting starting QB's, WR's, playmakers, D and O linemen and special teams stars, we get an overweight kid who can't crack the nations' worst offensive line.

If we could actually use the damn rule, then maybe I'd feel differently.

 

[Art]

The rule goes against the spirit of the game, with that said, if we could use the rule like other power five programs, then that would be fantastic: Instead, while other teams are getting starting QB's, WR's, playmakers, D and O linemen and special teams stars, we get an overweight kid who can't crack the nations' worst offensive line.

If we could actually use the damn rule, then maybe I'd feel differently.

The "spirit of the game" was lost years ago.......1906, if you want to be precise.

 

[wplion]

The rule goes against the spirit of the game, with that said, if we could use the rule like other power five programs, then that would be fantastic: Instead, while other teams are getting starting QB's, WR's, playmakers, D and O linemen and special teams stars, we get an overweight kid who can't crack the nations' worst offensive line.

If we could actually use the damn rule, then maybe I'd feel differently.

21 guns, I get that we have not used the rule well or at all. I totally agree. But, I don't understand how it goes against the spirit of the game? Many of these kids make decisions at 16 or 17 to a school and coach who promise them the world. Sometimes it does not work out that way. Coaches leave, coaches lie, the kid does not fit the system or does not develop as well as another player. He graduates (I think he has fulfilled his commitment) and wants to get another chance where he may have a better opportunity for whatever reason. It may even be the educational reason. I think that is all about the spirit of the game if it is about the athlete and not the $$ he is bringing in to one school which may or may not have fulfilled what they promised him.

 

[Woodpecker]

The "spirit of the game" was lost years ago.......1906, if you want to be precise.

March 31st?

 

[Art]

March 31st?

Uh-huh.

 

[21Guns]

21 guns, I get that we have not used the rule well or at all. I totally agree. But, I don't understand how it goes against the spirit of the game? Many of these kids make decisions at 16 or 17 to a school and coach who promise them the world. Sometimes it does not work out that way. Coaches leave, coaches lie, the kid does not fit the system or does not develop as well as another player. He graduates (I think he has fulfilled his commitment) and wants to get another chance where he may have a better opportunity for whatever reason. It may even be the educational reason. I think that is all about the spirit of the game if it is about the athlete and not the $$ he is bringing in to one school which may or may not have fulfilled what they promised him.

I guess I'm looking at it from the side of the team that uses it to gain an advantage, rather than the kid. Quck question: Does Michigan have that same team last year without Jake? Be honest. Was Speight ready? O'Korn wasn't eligible. Morris is not Rudock either.

 

[Blue_note]

I guess I'm looking at it from the side of the team that uses it to gain an advantage, rather than the kid. Quck question: Does Michigan have that same team last year without Jake? Be honest. Was Speight ready? O'Korn wasn't eligible. Morris is not Rudock either.

Nobody outside of Michigan said anything about Rudock transferring to Michigan when he announced the decision.

Then he was coached well, and played well. Oh, and drafted by the NFL, which he likely would not have been as a Hawkeye second-stringer.

There is exactly zero argument Rudock's move - made with the blessing of Kirk Ferentz - didn't help BOTH Rudock and Michigan.

But transferring is evil, lol.

 

[21Guns]

Nobody outside of Michigan said anything about Rudock transferring to Michigan when he announced the decision.

Then he was coached well, and played well. Oh, and drafted by the NFL, which he likely would not have been as a Hawkeye second-stringer.

There is exactly zero argument Rudock's move - made with the blessing of Kirk Ferentz - didn't help BOTH Rudock and Michigan.

But transferring is evil, lol.

And you missed the point.

 

[manatree]

In my opinion, anything that encourages a kid to not only graduate, but to get more education is very much in the spirit of the game.

 

[Blue_note]

And you missed the point.

Aaaaaaaaaaaand...there wasn't one to miss.

 

[Art]

In my opinion, anything that encourages a kid to not only graduate, but to get more education is very much in the spirit of the game.

I agree, except the reality is different.

 

[blion72]

The logic behind the rule is fuzzy. On it's face it sounds like a good idea since a student athlete has an incentive to get a degree and pursue graduate students if that's their goal. Of course it only applies if your current school doesn't offer your preferred graduate program which gives an advantage to large schools with a broad list of curricula. As usual, the NCAA has its head in the sand if it thinks the goal of even a simple majority of graduate transfers is to get a masters degree. The stat Art posted above confirms this.

And are institutional admissions standards a bit more relaxed like they are for kids coming from high school? If so then it's more confirmation the transfer rule is flawed. If a kid wouldn't be admitted to a given graduate school on his own merits why is he going to graduate school in the first place? Obviously to play a sport and not truly to further his/her education.

I say ditch the transfer rule. If someone wants to leave they have to sit out a year as the current rule requires. The same should apply to coaches in some situations but that's an entirely different discussion.

I agree with you on this 100%. the concept is solid, but it is being missed entirely, and not enforced. does anyone think that Ruddock could not have found his masters program at Iowa???? how did Wilson ever get to Wisky from NCS???

I say okay but the new school has to really have a program you don't have at current school. second the player needs to be qualified to enter that grad program, and finally if the player fails in the program at the new school, it will hurt the new school's numbers.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

In my opinion, anything that encourages a kid to not only graduate, but to get more education is very much in the spirit of the game.

Gullible, much?

You really think that is what the "grad transfer" deal is all about? Or even a "little bit" about?

 

[manatree]

I agree, except the reality is different.

Are you saying that the kids are NOT graduating and NOT taking graduate classes at the new school?

 

[manatree]

Gullible, much?

You really think that is what the "grad transfer" deal is all about? Or even a "little bit" about?

I don't give a stinkstankstunk what ulterior motives may or may not be in play. In order for a kid to take advantage of this, they have to A) graduate in a timely fashion and B) take graduate classes at the second school. To me, those are the two most imporant things in this scenario.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

I don't give a stinkstankstunk what ulterior motives may or may not be in play. In order for a kid to take advantage of this, they have to A) graduate in a timely fashion and B) take graduate classes at the second school. To me, those are the two most imporant things in this scenario.

You don't have to care
You don't even have to be aware
You don't even have ANY obligation whatsoever to be "not taken in"

None

It is unfortunate (because that's the type of thing that allows folks like the NCAA to "do their thing")........but it ain't your responsibility,no doubt

 

[LafayetteBear]

Are you saying that the kids are NOT graduating and NOT taking graduate classes at the new school?

No, but I think he IS saying that they are taking graduate classes at the new school only for so long as they are playing football or basketball at the new school, and then dropping their graduate degree plans like a hot rock. Not everyone, of course, but the vast majority.

 

[21Guns]

For a Russell Wilson, it was a shot to move up one level, before entering the NFL draft, and establishing his winning cache. It was a deliberate, planned, career move, and hey, good for him, but if you think Wisconsin took him for ANY other reason other than winning football games and getting to Pasadena, you're fooling yourselves.

Again, if we get in the game and actually GET one of these kids who CAN play, then maybe I feel differently.

 

[manatree]

No, but I think he IS saying that they are taking graduate classes at the new school only for so long as they are playing football or basketball at the new school, and then dropping their graduate degree plans like a hot rock. Not everyone, of course, but the vast majority.

Many normal students drop their graduate degree plans when the $$ runs out. Also, many players that stay at their original school and take graduate classes never finish their graduate degree once their playing days are done either.

 

[manatree]

....but if you think Wisconsin took him for ANY other reason other than winning football games and getting to Pasadena, you're fooling yourselves.

Isn't that the reason that every college takes any player? To win games?

 

[Eurotrash1]

Since, we allow coaches to leave whenever they wish? My opinion is players should be allowed as well.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Isn't that the reason that every college takes any player? To win games?

So....then:

If a player two years into his college career decides he would rather be "elsewhere", and that "elsewhere" is willing and able to add him on.....he should be able to go without restrictions.
Right?

Or, is this one of those "hypocrite" deals?

 

[manatree]

So....then:

If a player two years into his college career decides he would rather be "elsewhere", and that "elsewhere" is willing and able to add him on.....he should be able to go without restrictions.
Right?

As long as they are in compliance with the APR, yes.