GOT: Season 7 finale

[canuckhal]

WOW! Lots of stuff people predicted and some characters should have seen coming a mile away.

Great finale setting up for a great final season, but the dead are coming for the Starks just as they are rebounding..

This season has left me with a question. There is no budget for direwolves b/c they are too expensive, but dragons feature prominently in almost every episode?

1) Theron finds his balls.
2) Jon has a lot of Ned and maybe too much Ned.
3) Jon's secret is about to be revealed. Will Dany take the knee?
4) Sam returns so he and Bran can figure out the secret. Will they be able to tell Jon about the even bigger secret?
5) Cersie acted as one would predict, but Jamie is leading in another direction and to become a hero?
6) Tyrion and Cersei finally have a chat to address some daddy issues.
7) We find out what a dead dragon can do.and who can fly one.
8) RIP Baelish. You will be missed as your deeds caused everything, but now the show has moved beyond you. Freaking awesome.
9) The Cliegan bowl appears to be still a possibility. as is David Hasselhoff playing at the Wall.

 

[SUPERTODD]

Freaking awesome! Made the whole season worth it.

 

[OldTiredLion]

Looks like the Nazis got the H-Bomb and the good guys just have two A-Bombs.

 

[psualt]

Will be interested in seeing others opinions. Really didn't do it for me.

 

[canuckhal]

Looks like the Nazis got the H-Bomb and the good guys just have two A-Bombs.

Why Dany showed up with two dragons, I will never understand. Just another dumb move to reveal info. to Cersei. Will be interesting to see how Dany will react to the resurrection of one of her children.

 

[WTNuke]

I had problems with some of what happened this season, but honestly that finale made it all fine. That was so satisfying.

 

[canuckhal]

Any else notice Tyrion didn't look too impressed with who visited Dany.

 

[NedFromYork]

I'm reading the first book so the Littlefinger stuff was very interesting to me, really layered, even more complex than I had thought it could have been.

 

[canuckhal]

I had problems with some of what happened this season, but honestly that finale made it all fine. That was so satisfying.

So many good moments.

1) Brienne and the Hound. I thought I killed you. Not quite, but you came close.
2) Brienne and Jamie. Screw loyalty.
3) The Hound and the Mountain. You are even uglier than me.
4) Arya and Sansa. Daddy moment.
5) Sam and Bran. I became the Three Eyed Raven. Good for you, but I don't know what that means.
6) Jon's late night knock at the door.
7) Cersei and Jamie. Family comes first, but not the father.
8) Cersei and Tyrion. You know that if you still have a heart.
9) Lord Baelish begging for his life. That seemed a little out of character, but still awesome.

 

[rem524]

I'm reading the first book so the Littlefinger stuff was very interesting to me, really layered, even more complex than I had thought it could have been.

I'm reading the first book too - a little past half way through. I can read the released books and review a little while I'm waiting for the final season.

 

[WTNuke]

So many good moments.

1) Brienne and the Hound. I thought I killed you. Not quite, but you came close.
2) Brienne and Jamie. Screw loyalty.
3) The Hound and the Mountain. You are even uglier than me.
4) Arya and Sansa. Daddy moment.
5) Sam and Bran. Good for you, but I don't know what that means.
6) Jon's late night knock at the door.
7) Cersei and Jamie. Family comes first, but not the father.
8) Cersei and Tyrion. You know that if you still have a heart.
9) Lord Baelish begging for his life. That seemed a little out of character.

I like how every scene with Bran was totally awkward this season. He always says "I know everything" and people just look reeeeally uncomfortable.

 

[canuckhal]

I like how every scene with Bran was totally awkward this season. He always says "I know everything" and people just look reeeeally uncomfortable.

Only about the past and present and he didn't know what Sam did. Well until Sam mentioned it..

 

[dunkej01]

i think there were several clunky parts to the season (many just last week) all in a push for tonight.

But I thought tonight was an episode that kept the very high bar fans have for the show. intrigue, cinema, deception, great lines, twists, etc.

it didnt go over the bar, just met the very high bar for me.

while I dont know anything about next season, it feels like in 10 minutes we could collectively write the ending and it will be darn close to what the TV writers do.

but i did love the sam line and the face the hound makes when he says he will stay out of aryas way. tears in little fingers eyes was great too. oh and any scene with Bronn is entertaining, guy has a way with words.....c'mon you can s#ck his magic C*%4 later....had me LOL

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I really loved this episode and it balanced the whole season for me. With the extra time, you got a chance for the characters to breathe a bit and get to what makes GoT so great - the characters themselves. Watching Jon be loyal and honest to a fault; Cersei and Tyrion having a drink over their storied and bitter past; Theon getting QT with Jon and trying to set things straight; Jon and Dany making dragon babies; Jaime and Cersei having a final falling out; and the Stark sisters flipping the script on Littlefinger. Just great, great stuff. Also enjoyed the Sam/Bran interaction and actually laughed out loud when Bran showed the message Jon sent in response to Sam's inquiry about how he knows what's going on.

If anyone ever doubted Arya is all about family, this should have ended it. Now, she has a Littlefinger mask.....

 

[lionroar88]

Bronn had me busting a gut with his comment to Tyrion - and Tyrion's reaction! LMAO!!!!

I wonder what Jon and Dany's reaction will be when:
1. They find out they are nephew and aunt
2. She is pregnant

My bet is neither of them 'take the throne'.

 

[dunkej01]

Bronn had me busting a gut with his comment to Tyrion - and Tyrion's reaction! LMAO!!!!

I wonder what Jon and Dany's reaction will be when:
1. They find out they are nephew and aunt
2. She is pregnant

My bet is neither of them 'take the throne'.

this. I dont think any of the characters alive on the show today take over in the end. Something will happen to all the major players, ie death of some kind. some to walkers, some to each other, some to magic, etc....but in the end to break the wheel there must be another and unconflicted to a certain degree.....so Im betting Jon and Dany have a child that takes the thrown when the game kills all the others.

 

[nittany119]

Any else notice Tyrion didn't look too impressed with who visited Dany.

I thought he looked a bit pissed. Wondering if this will factor in down the road.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I like how every scene with Bran was totally awkward this season. He always says "I know everything" and people just look reeeeally uncomfortable.

They're all wondering if his visions include the last time they rubbed one out...

 

[LafayetteBear]

I guess we can all agree that Sansa is a bit of a badass, too.

Was surprised that Jamie made it out of Kings Landing after the fallout with Cersei. But it looks like he will be joininig up with the good guys. Brienne will probably intercede for him.

Theon's secret weapon: no balls.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and hazard a guess that Dany likes Jon the best. And yeah, I think it's a given that she gets prego. (Wonder if Jon got wood in that scene. I mean, he's only human. What do you say to the actress you're working with? "Never mind?" "Consider it a compliment?")

 

[LafayetteBear]

What's the rumor on when Season 8 commences? Anything out there yet?

 

[wbcincy]

Meh. Maybe I should stop posting in these threads because I don't want to cut into others enjoyment of it by being negative week after week. I genuinely had no negative commentaries for all these for years until this season.

Ok, so everyone is happy because Littlefinger got what we wanted...but great storytelling isn't the result, it's how we got there. So how did any of the entire seasons Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger arc make sense? You essentially have two options: (1), Bran finally saw everything necessary to tell Sansa and Arya and they realized the errs of their feud, in which case we have to accept that the stupid way Arya acted all season was legitimate, which really sucks, or (2) they knew all along and were playing Littlefinger, which makes every conversation they had alone together make zero sense because who were they playing to then. Both options suck, and while Littefinger dying by Aryas hand is great, the means of arriving there was just dumb. Producer said in the post show that they spent all season trying to build the tension with Arya and Sansa so that you might think she's really going to kill her, because the show has proven people will make bad decisions and kill key characters. So there it is, the whole arc that made no sense logically was done just to try to trick you, rational storyline be damned.

Good to see that when Sam was paying no attention to the talk of that annulment, he was actually committing it to the forefront of his mind, And he knows more than the three eyed Raven, so, sure.

And man the ice dragon is sweet, so long as you ignore the part about where the show insulted your intelligence by contriving a ridiculous scenario just to create the situation where the ice dragon exists.

I'll watch it again and think it over, I'm still just as disappointed in the season as I was. Every storyline's end point was perfect, so I get why people are happy with the finale. But I just can't ignore that they clearly started with those end points, said how do we get to those, and then completely blew every aspect of getting there.

 

[NitneLiun]

Think of PSU as Arya Stark and Pitt as Littlefinger.
Think of PSU as the dead dragon and Pitt as the Wall.

 

[AWS1022]

I guess we can all agree that Sansa is a bit of a badass, too.

Was surprised that Jamie made it out of Kings Landing after the fallout with Cersei. But it looks like he will be joininig up with the good guys. Brienne will probably intercede for him.

Theon's secret weapon: no balls.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and hazard a guess that Dany likes Jon the best. And yeah, I think it's a given that she gets prego. (Wonder if Jon got wood in that scene. I mean, he's only human. What do you say to the actress you're working with? "Never mind?" "Consider it a compliment?")

One actor (can't remember who) apparently used to tell an actress before a sex scene "I apologize twice in advance, one in case I get aroused and one in case I don't".

 

[dunkej01]

I'll watch it again and think it over, I'm still just as disappointed in the season as I was. Every storyline's end point was perfect, so I get why people are happy with the finale. But I just can't ignore that they clearly started with those end points, said how do we get to those, and then completely blew every aspect of getting there.

When they lost the books as the guide, and they were told how much longer they had to go, this is the feeling I got too. Which could spell danger for the final season. Hope not, but its in the back of my mind cause i think the ending is all to clear.

Ive read that filming is to start in late September or early October due to the winter scenes they need. so it looks like it will be a full year from now to get the final season started.

 

[PSU Soupy]

One actor (can't remember who) apparently used to tell an actress before a sex scene "I apologize twice in advance, one in case I get aroused and one in case I don't".

Sir Laurence Olivier was the actor.

 

[Talpsu]

What's the rumor on when Season 8 commences? Anything out there yet?

Rumored to be 2019

Couple of reasons. I heard that HBO is in a peeing match with those two writers. HBO was significantly upset with the 7 and 6 episode thing instead of 10. Apparently the lawyers are involved now and they are trying to force them to do at least 10 hours of run time. The rumors were that when Martin didn't have the books complete those two writers were given the chance to "run with it how they saw fit" as long as it stayed with Martins ideas. They then took that as they could do whatever they wanted which is why we got the 7 episodes this season. The excuse of filming in winter is total BS IMHO. Every season to date had significant winter scenes and there was never an issue. Now they say winter is here so they need to film everything in winter. That could be true for next season but think back on this season. The majority of the scenes contained no snow or even an inkling of winter. If anything, I would say almost all the other seasons contain more winter scenes than this one.

 

[Woodpecker]

Only about the past and present and he didn't know what Sam did. Well until Sam mentioned it..

Or about Jon's true lineage until then?

 

[canuckhal]

Or about Jon's true lineage until then?

Correct. Bran thought Jon was a bastard Targyrian because he was born out of wedlock. When Sam told him he had his previous marriage annulled and married Robert's sister, Bran witnessed the wedding. Then he revealed the big secret: Jon is next in line for the Iron Throne and Robert's rebellion was built on a lie.

So the Three Eyed Raven doesn't know everything and must be pointed in a direction to access the past.

 

[Kiber]

But I just can't ignore that they clearly started with those end points, said how do we get to those, and then completely blew every aspect of getting there.

Trust me, I would be the last to defend the "talent" of Hollywood writers. But to be fair to them, can't it be said for just about 99% of stories that by the time you get to about 3/4 of the story you can see the end points? By the time you are 3/4 into ANY story, book, movie.... you have character development, you have story line development and you have a sense of the key characters of the story as to who are the "story tellers". Even books/movies that are geared for surprise endings, leave major clues by about 3/4 thru as to who are the key characters and the stories end points. For example, look at a book/movie like "Sixth Sense". That entire story was based on the surprise twist that Bruce Willis was a ghost and he was not seeing himself as dead. But even a story written with that objective, left major clues and by about 3/4 of the way thru most people realized where the story was going.

In the genre of Medieval Fantasy, I consider the Lord of the Rings trilogy the gold standard. And by mid-way thru the 2nd episode we all pretty much knew Frodo was going to reach the destination and destroy the ring, we knew Aragorn was going to be the King, we knew Aragorn was going to hook up in the end with Liv Tyler, we knew the elf (Legolas) and the hobbit were going to live. We knew Gandalf was going to live.... Heck, you want predictable how about the scene is movie #1 when that fire breathing demon used his whip to pull Gandalf down into that abyss .... and somehow Gandalf lived???

So IMO. The HBO writers did pick up in a tough position. By the end of season 5 all of the major story lines were developed, the major characters were developed, and the "story tellers" (or who the story was about) were established..... it was going to be more predictable than the development stages. That can be said for any story/movie.

 

[canuckhal]

Meh. Maybe I should stop posting in these threads because I don't want to cut into others enjoyment of it by being negative week after week. I genuinely had no negative commentaries for all these for years until this season.

Ok, so everyone is happy because Littlefinger got what we wanted...but great storytelling isn't the result, it's how we got there. So how did any of the entire seasons Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger arc make sense? You essentially have two options: (1), Bran finally saw everything necessary to tell Sansa and Arya and they realized the errs of their feud, in which case we have to accept that the stupid way Arya acted all season was legitimate, which really sucks, or (2) they knew all along and were playing Littlefinger, which makes every conversation they had alone together make zero sense because who were they playing to then. Both options suck, and while Littefinger dying by Aryas hand is great, the means of arriving there was just dumb. Producer said in the post show that they spent all season trying to build the tension with Arya and Sansa so that you might think she's really going to kill her, because the show has proven people will make bad decisions and kill key characters. So there it is, the whole arc that made no sense logically was done just to try to trick you, rational storyline be damned.

Good to see that when Sam was paying no attention to the talk of that annulment, he was actually committing it to the forefront of his mind, And he knows more than the three eyed Raven, so, sure.

And man the ice dragon is sweet, so long as you ignore the part about where the show insulted your intelligence by contriving a ridiculous scenario just to create the situation where the ice dragon exists.

I'll watch it again and think it over, I'm still just as disappointed in the season as I was. Every storyline's end point was perfect, so I get why people are happy with the finale. But I just can't ignore that they clearly started with those end points, said how do we get to those, and then completely blew every aspect of getting there.

I would not want to watch any show or movie with you. Sam said he transcribed the scroll which contained the info., which means he either knew the info. when Gilly mentioned it (and why he is so dismissive) or he transcribed the book after Gilly mentioned it.

Also, some had already figured out that Arya and Sansa were in cahoots. With ravens sounding when Littlefinger was around suggesting Bran was in on it too. So it wasn't like the Walking Dead playing with viewers. If you pay close attention, there are clues.

Do you not remember the Jon death cliff-hanger? You must have hated that.

All this said, I'm mainly enjoying the ride.

 

[razpsu]

What exactly was the dragon breathing to destroy the wall?

 

[dunkej01]

 

[wbcincy]

Also, some had already figured out that Arya and Sansa were in cahoots. With ravens sounding when Littlefinger was around suggesting Bran was in on it too. So it wasn't like the Walking Dead playing with viewers. If you pay close attention, there are clues.

Ok, so if they were in cahoots, what was the point of their conversations when they were alone? Who were they trying to fool when they were by themselves? Those make no sense if they were in on Littlefinger all along.

 

[wbcincy]

Trust me, I would be the last to defend the "talent" of Hollywood writers. But to be fair to them, can't it be said for just about 99% of stories that by the time you get to about 3/4 of the story you can see the end points? By the time you are 3/4 into ANY story, book, movie.... you have character development, you have story line development and you have a sense of the key characters of the story as to who are the "story tellers". Even books/movies that are geared for surprise endings, leave major clues by about 3/4 thru as to who are the key characters and the stories end points. For example, look at a book/movie like "Sixth Sense". That entire story was based on the surprise twist that Bruce Willis was a ghost and he was not seeing himself as dead. But even a story written with that objective, left major clues and by about 3/4 of the way thru most people realized where the story was going.

In the genre of Medieval Fantasy, I consider the Lord of the Rings trilogy the gold standard. And by mid-way thru the 2nd episode we all pretty much knew Frodo was going to reach the destination and destroy the ring, we knew Aragorn was going to be the King, we knew Aragorn was going to hook up in the end with Liv Tyler, we knew the elf (Legolas) and the hobbit were going to live. We knew Gandalf was going to live.... Heck, you want predictable how about the scene is movie #1 when that fire breathing demon used his whip to pull Gandalf down into that abyss .... and somehow Gandalf lived???

So IMO. The HBO writers did pick up in a tough position. By the end of season 5 all of the major story lines were developed, the major characters were developed, and the "story tellers" (or who the story was about) were established..... it was going to be more predictable than the development stages. That can be said for any story/movie.

My point wasn't really that knowing the end points is the problem, you need to know that in advance or you just fall apart (See Lost), my problem is the nonsensical ways they went about getting there.

The plot for getting a dragon to the Night King was absurd. And the Sansa/Arya riff made no sense for who Arya was supposed to have become. And if you think Sansa and Arya were in on it together all along, then see my prior post, because plenty of their conversations make no sense if that's the case.

I guarantee when Martin finally gets around to writing this, he doesn't reach these end points so irrationally and clumsily. It was poor writing, saved only by how great the shows and characters were prior to this.

 

[canuckhal]

Ok, so if they were in cahoots, what was the point of their conversations when they were alone? Who were they trying to fool when they were by themselves? Those make no sense if they were in on Littlefinger all along.

You overthink too much. It is a tv show. Here is one theory, but I'll bet you nitpick it. Enjoy the show unless they get too crazy.

http://mashable.com/2017/08/24/game-of-thrones-theory-arya-season-7-end-game/#fSs2WV3ICmqQ

 

[Elwood Blues]

Last week somebody on this board made the brilliant analogy of smoking a brisket for hours, and then finishing it in a microwave. If the pace of all prior seasons had been maintained, HBO would have had this blockbuster franchise for another 4 seasons.

It seemed like hours of screen time were devoted to Theon being tortured and Bran sitting around in a tree - and this season every episode has been a great leap forward. I don't understand the sprint to the finish. Maybe they just can't keep all the talent on board for more than another season (?) Unless HBO comes up with another big winner - it seems that when GOT is gone, so will be a lot of their subscribers.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I'm reading the first book so the Littlefinger stuff was very interesting to me, really layered, even more complex than I had thought it could have been.

I read all the books, enough to lament that the books have been passed and Martin's writing has been replaced with Hollywood's. Same good stuff in terms of big picture story (he provided a manuscript) but after 5-6 seasons of buildup guided by his fantastic writing, we're now at the grand culmination and it's missing some of what made this so special. I guess we'll never know what it would have been if Martin had just finished the darned books and the directors were still following his guidance on the details.

The wall coming down and confirmation of Jon's truth were the climax. How both played out on screen was a letdown.

 

[psualt]

Last week somebody on this board made the brilliant analogy of smoking a brisket for hours, and then finishing it in a microwave. If the pace of all prior seasons had been maintained, HBO would have had this blockbuster franchise for another 4 seasons.

It seemed like hours of screen time were devoted to Theon being tortured and Bran sitting around in a tree - and this season every episode has been a great leap forward. I don't understand the sprint to the finish. Maybe they just can't keep all the talent on board for more than another season (?) Unless HBO comes up with another big winner - it seems that when GOT is gone, so will be a lot of their subscribers.

I tend to agree. I like the brisket analogy as well. Is it safe to say that some were so hungry that they didn't mind the microwave?

 

[PSU.:.]

Ok, so if they were in cahoots, what was the point of their conversations when they were alone? Who were they trying to fool when they were by themselves? Those make no sense if they were in on Littlefinger all along.

It's a tv show. I don't think to much into it. I just want to be entertained most of all.
Maybe those scenes were real and Bran got in between them before they eventually killed each other and sat them down and told them to stop the nonsense. He could of revealed what Littlefinger has done and is playing the two of them against each other.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Ok, so if they were in cahoots, what was the point of their conversations when they were alone? Who were they trying to fool when they were by themselves? Those make no sense if they were in on Littlefinger all along.

You make a lot of valid points and are well known as a long time GoT fan. As I said previously, I quit trying to make perfect the enemy of 'near-perfect' or 'pretty damn good,' which is what I would say about this season. I think part of it is as fans, we're used to not getting what we want and now that the end is nigh, we're getting basically not only what we want (Jon and Dany! Dragons! FREAKIN' ICE DRAGONS!! Arya and Sansa kill Littlefinger!! Bronn and Tyrion!! The Hound and Brienne!! Jaime and Brienne!!), but what we know *has* to happen. I didn't have a big problem overall with most of the finale and thought everything was a real return to earlier storytelling (character driven). My biggest issue was Dany deploying her ENTIRE army to King's Landing for a show of force. Dany - two dragons will be more than enough to have the Mountain pissing his pants. I guess it makes some sense since they have to go North anyway.

As for Sansa and Arya's 'private' conversations that don't make sense if they are truly alone, my assumption is that they assume Littlefinger is *always* listening and that they have to keep up the ruse at all times just in case. I mean, if you didn't love that scene with Littlefinger begging for his life you may be beyond reproach.....