Also, last I checked, college grads generally do not get hired into management positions. Usually, you get hired and learn something about the business you are in first.how are they going to do that when the profs don't know any of that stuff?
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Also, last I checked, college grads generally do not get hired into management positions. Usually, you get hired and learn something about the business you are in first.how are they going to do that when the profs don't know any of that stuff?
My last point. I don’t want to come across as arguing with you as I agree with your points above. I do think the skills you mention are useful.how about this, start giving classes that actually teach that. give a leadership class. give a management class. give a legit class on how to make and give presentations. give a class on critical decision making. Start giving classes that are about the soft skills you are saying that the 'well rounded' education gives by proxy. having to take 3 or 6 classes of just general stuff just doesn't give that much benefit but if you took those credits and gave more real life soft skills would help a lot.
Hopefully she'll have the freedom to get rid of the 20% worst-performing of her group.
On its face your idea is sound. However, of the topics you mentioned, how many do you think can be effective in a 15 week semester?My last point. I don’t want to come across as arguing with you as I agree with your points above. I do think the skills you mention are useful.
The original point of let’s say a government class is as follows. Utilize a subject in the social sciences to develop reading, writing, critical thinking, analysis and a host of other soft skills as part of a classic university education. Other than learning about a subject, the benefit is really understanding and analyzing a complex issue or problem, and demonstrating one’s mastery of material, while identifying causes, effects and critical thinking. For example a class on comparative politics takes a deep dive into differing forms of government in several countries. A student would be asked to fully understand the sometimes nuanced differences between systems, pro’s and con’s, and how certain systems or policies impact economic or social systems in a given country. An appropriate assignment may be: pick two governments and identify certain procedures or laws present in one country that if applied to the other, would provide significant economic or social benefit. Explain why the change will benefit county A in achieving goal X. This is a difficult assignment that requires critical thinking, analysis, a well constructed argument and solid writing or presentation skills. The student learns these skills and can apply the above to any subject or problem. It becomes where the subject is essentially irrelevant, it is simply the framework to present a complicated problem for the student to think through, and apply skills to complete the assignment effectively. This is the “learn how to learn”dynamic that would theoretically provide skills and framework to carry forward in life.
I am in complete agreement that a government class that requires memorization, and ask things like “How many votes are needed to override a presidential veto?” are totally useless. My hunch is that most throw away electives are conducted in this way and totally miss the point.
Oddly, I would think that today's students in the ordinary course should be better at giving presentations, since they are subject to the constant validation of their own ideas, so as to build self confidence.On its face your idea is sound. However, of the topics you mentioned, how many do you think can be effective in a 15 week semester?
Critical thinking in 15 weeks? I don't think so.
Presentations? I know people who can't give a presentation worth a lick after 5 years experience.
Leadership? After 30 years in the workforce I firmly believe (despite what the military might believe) is that leadership can't be taught. Certainly not in 15 weeks. Leadership is something that is developed.
That said, I agree with your premise. Instead of having a business major take a history class, give them a class on doing presentations.
Doesn't matter -by definition someone in that group is in the bottom 20 percent of it and they have to go, even if it's just by one measure for one short period of time and has nothing to do with their actual value to the organization.What if her group was the hand-picked best of the best the University?
When I was in graduate school it was common that the kids with engineering degrees or other technical degrees couldn’t write effectively. They were likely to be stuck in engineering for their professional lives without ever progressing into management. They couldn’t communicate verbally either. Some communications classes would have served them well.On its face your idea is sound. However, of the topics you mentioned, how many do you think can be effective in a 15 week semester?
Critical thinking in 15 weeks? I don't think so.
Presentations? I know people who can't give a presentation worth a lick after 5 years experience.
Leadership? After 30 years in the workforce I firmly believe (despite what the military might believe) is that leadership can't be taught. Certainly not in 15 weeks. Leadership is something that is developed.
That said, I agree with your premise. Instead of having a business major take a history class, give them a class on doing presentations.
So how do you measure that? Best student evals on RatemyProfessor.com? Most research published? Best onion dip brought to the faculty parties? Most like the department head? I'll point out that the "worst performing" thing was a metric for managers at GE. A lot of uninformed managers have grabbed onto it as a practice for rank and file employees, which it was never intended for.Hopefully she'll have the freedom to get rid of the 20% worst-performing of her group. That would probably be addition by subtraction.
Spoken like an Accountant and not someone that has had to actually get the hard work done.Doesn't matter -by definition someone in that group is in the bottom 20 percent of it and they have to go, even if it's just by one measure for one short period of time and has nothing to do with their actual value to the organization.
I was being facetious. I think forced rank is generally a bad idea.Spoken like an Accountant and not someone that has had to actually get the hard work done.
Have you taught college?Then they’re still 20% expendable. Teaching college ain’t rocket science.
So how do you measure that? Best student evals on RatemyProfessor.com? Most research published? Best onion dip brought to the faculty parties? Most like the department head? I'll point out that the "worst performing" thing was a metric for managers at GE. A lot of uninformed managers have grabbed onto it as a practice for rank and file employees, which it was never intended for.
Well that sucks!I'll throw something in the mix, college just isn't as fun anymore. Most of us 'old timers' remember going to college as a right of passage. You went to college to get an education but at the same time, did a lot of paryting. Frat parties, apartment parties, house parties, etc....that type of 'fun' just doesn't exist in the same levels anymore do to a large crackdown by the police and huge fines being put out there now. So the lure of going off to college to go have some fun isn't what it once was.
Do you know any college students? It may be a hassle but the students still love being at Penn State. They absolutely love it. It may not be the complete mayhem it once was but they are still having lots of fun, way too much fun for this father to like but I've got to admire the effort and enthusiasm they put into having a great time.I'll throw something in the mix, college just isn't as fun anymore. Most of us 'old timers' remember going to college as a right of passage. You went to college to get an education but at the same time, did a lot of paryting. Frat parties, apartment parties, house parties, etc....that type of 'fun' just doesn't exist in the same levels anymore do to a large crackdown by the police and huge fines being put out there now. So the lure of going off to college to go have some fun isn't what it once was.
A University education shouldn't just be about getting a good job. It should also be about getting a well-rounded education. Some of the "bogus" majors might offer classes that would be useful to someone going into other fields. So I think we have to be careful there.Make the cuts across the board. Eliminate bogus majors that dont result in good jobs.
The days of getting a liberal arts degree and getting accepted into a Management Training program at a bank, insurance company, etc are long gone.here is the issue....it is truly a worldwide economy now. So when Asian and European students are NOT taking those other 'well rounded' classes but a heavier courseload in their major, they come out with what is essentially a masters degree light in their field. They are more advanced technically in their education then their American counterparts. And then guess who is getting the jobs....not the American kids. The amount of white collar jobs going oversee's is pretty shocking and is the next shoe to drop. We saw a lot of manufacturing jobs leaving the USA over the past 25+ years, now you are seeing the migration of white collar jobs leaving the USA. Or you are seeing more highly educated and qualified workers from Asia/Europe coming to USA to find jobs.
World changes, adapt or die. Taking 12-16 credits of classes that are relatively worthless to your future job description is not going to be comptetive as the world moves forward. This isn't the 1950's and 1960's and 1970's anymore where you went to college to get a well rounded education, came out and found yourself and maybe got a job somewhere doing something and then worked up the ladder from there. that type of stuff just doens't happen much anymore.
How does a Steeler fan transplant to the Browns? I am a fan of the team I rooted for growing up and the team of the University I attended. I will never change that no matter where I live.She is a big Steeler fan. I was a Steeler fan but transplanted to the Browns. She called me to BS about the crazy game. (one of C Collinsworth's female football crazies). I took the dog for a walk and we hit all kinds of subject.
But, hey, why do I need to explain this to you?
I rooted for the Steelers because I lived in western PA. 30 years ago I moved to Ohio why should I root for the Steelers?How does a Steeler fan transplant to the Browns? I am a fan of the team I rooted for growing up and the team of the University I attended. I will never change that no matter where I live.
Why do you root for Penn State if you live in Ohio? Shouldn't you root for Ohio State?I rooted for the Steelers because I lived in western PA. 30 years ago I moved to Ohio why should I root for the Steelers?
The Browns you root for are an imposter expansion team.I rooted for the Steelers because I lived in western PA. 30 years ago I moved to Ohio why should I root for the Steelers?
So Jacksonville shouldn’t be rooting for their teamThe Browns you root for are an imposter expansion team.
Not sure. Soon graduated from Ohio state but I’ve always hated them. I toured for the Steelers until the brown rose from the deadWhy do you root for Penn State if you live in Ohio? Shouldn't you root for Ohio State?
Add in over-the-top political correctness. Even those who agree with it can’t have any fun, lest they offend someone.I'll throw something in the mix, college just isn't as fun anymore. Most of us 'old timers' remember going to college as a right of passage. You went to college to get an education but at the same time, did a lot of paryting. Frat parties, apartment parties, house parties, etc....that type of 'fun' just doesn't exist in the same levels anymore do to a large crackdown by the police and huge fines being put out there now. So the lure of going off to college to go have some fun isn't what it once was.
Actually, part of his point was the study of the humanities is best accomplished in person.I would disagree. As a graduate of a technical major, I would say the best bet is a mix of classroom and online classes, and it should bring the ridiculous cost of college down - because it is way too high. I wouldn't want to take any math classes online nor higher level science. But History and other low-level electives? C'mon.
how about this, start giving classes that actually teach that. give a leadership class. give a management class. give a legit class on how to make and give presentations. give a class on critical decision making. Start giving classes that are about the soft skills you are saying that the 'well rounded' education gives by proxy. having to take 3 or 6 classes of just general stuff just doesn't give that much benefit but if you took those credits and gave more real life soft skills would help a lot.
Those will be the ones they go after first- egalitarianWhat if her group was the hand-picked best of the best the University?
That’s not true. PSU’s economics majors (yes it’s in liberal arts) are getting a lot of high paying job offers. It’s a great major.The days of getting a liberal arts degree and getting accepted into a Management Training program at a bank, insurance company, etc are long gone.
In today's economy, if you are getting a degree in something that you don't know what you are going to do with it, you need to pick a different major. It works out for some people with a psychology, women's studies, interior design, etc degree, for the overwhelming majority it does not.
Well if the professors are pulling in multiple of their salaries there shouldn't be financial crisis should there. At its simplest isn't a college just teachers and buildings? Exclude room and board as that is a separate budget.
LOL. Teaching students how to make presentations somehow make a student well rounded??? That is total BS.how about this, start giving classes that actually teach that. give a leadership class. give a management class. give a legit class on how to make and give presentations. give a class on critical decision making. Start giving classes that are about the soft skills you are saying that the 'well rounded' education gives by proxy. having to take 3 or 6 classes of just general stuff just doesn't give that much benefit but if you took those credits and gave more real life soft skills would help a lot.
Full disclosure, I have a liberal arts degree in Political Science/International affairs. I sell software. I was hired initially in this industry because I was able to communicate, present and help problem solve for customers. I picked up technical knowledge along the way. However, if I knew this is what I was going to do, I would’ve certainly taken some MIS classes. Interesting enough, many of the senior members of my company who hold roles as VP of Product or Development do not have technology degrees (most are older). In fact the CTO has a degree in animal science of all things, but is a brilliant man. He basically taught himself how to code 40 years ago, got an entry level developer job and went from there. Our VP of Sales, who is also very talented, has a degree in Philosophy.That’s not true. PSU’s economics majors (yes it’s in liberal arts) are getting a lot of high paying job offers. It’s a great major.
Was there another Jaguars team before? The real Browns are in Baltimore.So Jacksonville shouldn’t be rooting for their team
who was watching the Browns/Steelers. He is a Prof at a school that is just outside the "Power Five" but ~ 25,000 students. She was informed, last week, to expect a 20% across the board cut. In other words, figure out a way to lay off 20% of your team and, BTW, don't expect tenure.
She was told worst case, 30% cut if they don't go back to in-person classes in August. 20% is the best guess. 10% 10 15% given what we know now (probably no real in-person this spring semester). The number varies based on a drop in enrollment, especially foreign, due to the erosion of those being able to afford college in middle America.
Just wondering if others are hearing the same.
I'll throw something in the mix, college just isn't as fun anymore. Most of us 'old timers' remember going to college as a right of passage. You went to college to get an education but at the same time, did a lot of paryting.
My company did the exact same thing when covid hitA university president saying "Give me your 20% (or whatever number)" simply delegates the difficult decisions to department heads. Have courage to re-allocate resources to strengths, which may mean some things no longer exist.
It's more likely they'd get cut....What if her group was the hand-picked best of the best the University?
LOL. Teaching students how to make presentations somehow make a student well rounded??? That is total BS.
The problem is they can't fire the buildings and other fixed overheadwho was watching the Browns/Steelers. He is a Prof at a school that is just outside the "Power Five" but ~ 25,000 students. She was informed, last week, to expect a 20% across the board cut. In other words, figure out a way to lay off 20% of your team and, BTW, don't expect tenure.
She was told worst case, 30% cut if they don't go back to in-person classes in August. 20% is the best guess. 10% 10 15% given what we know now (probably no real in-person this spring semester). The number varies based on a drop in enrollment, especially foreign, due to the erosion of those being able to afford college in middle America.
Just wondering if others are hearing the same.
who was watching the Browns/Steelers. He is a Prof at a school that is just outside the "Power Five" but ~ 25,000 students. She was informed, last week, to expect a 20% across the board cut. In other words, figure out a way to lay off 20% of your team and, BTW, don't expect tenure.
She was told worst case, 30% cut if they don't go back to in-person classes in August. 20% is the best guess. 10% 10 15% given what we know now (probably no real in-person this spring semester). The number varies based on a drop in enrollment, especially foreign, due to the erosion of those being able to afford college in middle America.
Just wondering if others are hearing the same.