Get off Rahne's case, guys
- Thread starter JosephNit
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I really don’t like our running game. It relies very heavily on a QB with exceptional ability, decision - making and toughness. Having a QB who can run is a big benefit. But running your QB 10 - 15 times per game is another story. I guess the trick would be to run him as few times as possible but enough that the defense has to worry about it.
I think that is a significant part of our offensive struggles. Defenses aren’t as worried about Trace running because he has lost some mobility. He is dropping back and looking at more seven man coverages and having some difficulty extending plays with his legs.
I think that is a significant part of our offensive struggles. Defenses aren’t as worried about Trace running because he has lost some mobility. He is dropping back and looking at more seven man coverages and having some difficulty extending plays with his legs.
The two-back set wasn't a "fail." It was a disappointment because we didn't do much out of it. Used the second back the same way every time. Compared to the other formations, I don't think it was that much different in terms of overall average results. I don't have the stats, but it might have even been a little better than average. I'm sure stormin is in the process of consolidating the data.
I think the defenses are keying on the run more than they used to. Since our receivers can’t seem to get separation, they can shut down our offense more easily by playing close to the LOS, blitzing, and stunting to stop Trace and to control Sanders. We seem to have made a bigger commitment to the run, hence fewer chunk plays, or even passes down field, having said all this, while it’s not putting up big flashy offensive numbers, it’s resulting in wins. The Wisconsin game is probable our best example, not a lot of points, but a solid win based on the ground game. In effect, we’re starting to look more like Iowa.
The "Hack regressed under Franklin" story is bogus. He had a decent line in front so he could stand in the pocket like a statue and an NFL quality receiver to catch his passes. Once they were gone, he was exposed. Since that time he's been in front of 3 or 4 NFL teams and has not played a down in the regular season, even in garbage time.
Regarding the OC, I don't think the Offense is missing JoMo as much as it's missing Barkley.
Agree, I would have liked to see it more and thought it was a bit better than average but too small a sample size
Hacks best year he had Robinson who was fantastic at winning contested passes. McSorley had Barkley to draw the defenses attention and Hamilton, Gesicki and Blacknall. That is more the reason for the drop off than the qb coach.
The interception yesterday is a perfect example. ARob or Gesicki would have caught that throw potentially leading to another TD and better stat line for McSorley
The interception yesterday is a perfect example. ARob or Gesicki would have caught that throw potentially leading to another TD and better stat line for McSorley
And we don’t really have a breakaway threat at RB. Sanders is really good, but he doesn’t break too many for long TD’s. Barkley gave us that potential every time he touched the ball.
But you guys are comparing to a recent past where we had some unusually gifted players. That is more the exception than the rule.
I don't think we've had a good OC since Billy O was the de facto OC as HC. That offense would have done well with today's players. I don't think Trace would be as banged up. In fact, he might not even be the starting quarterback.
As to the team on offense, I'm thrilled with the players that Franklin has assembled. However, I'm disappointed by Franklin's public remarks, and even more disappointed by the on-field strategy/performance/decision-making. How much of that is preparation (coaching that we cannot see), how much is strategy (coaching), and how much is player execution (driven by coaching) can be debated. Overall, I see an underperforming offense.
Defensively we look marginally better, but I still see guys from the back seven engaging needlessly with offensive linemen, only to have the ball carrier run right by them. Then there are the ones that avoid contact all together. To me it is disturbing when I see a player in a celebration demonstration after making a routine tackle. The discipline and fundamentals that I had grown to expect from Penn State defenses is not apparent, but there's no doubt that we're getting better athletes, particularly in the defensive backfield. Are they coachable? We'll see. The jury is still out.
Are there other historically good teams that aren't getting the expected results? For sure. OSU is a team loaded with stars that play like prima donnas, currently performing to the level of discord within their coaching ranks. Sometimes the really good athletes need more coaching. I see that as true of this Penn State team.
I don't think we've had a good OC since Billy O was the de facto OC as HC. That offense would have done well with today's players. I don't think Trace would be as banged up. In fact, he might not even be the starting quarterback.
As to the team on offense, I'm thrilled with the players that Franklin has assembled. However, I'm disappointed by Franklin's public remarks, and even more disappointed by the on-field strategy/performance/decision-making. How much of that is preparation (coaching that we cannot see), how much is strategy (coaching), and how much is player execution (driven by coaching) can be debated. Overall, I see an underperforming offense.
Defensively we look marginally better, but I still see guys from the back seven engaging needlessly with offensive linemen, only to have the ball carrier run right by them. Then there are the ones that avoid contact all together. To me it is disturbing when I see a player in a celebration demonstration after making a routine tackle. The discipline and fundamentals that I had grown to expect from Penn State defenses is not apparent, but there's no doubt that we're getting better athletes, particularly in the defensive backfield. Are they coachable? We'll see. The jury is still out.
Are there other historically good teams that aren't getting the expected results? For sure. OSU is a team loaded with stars that play like prima donnas, currently performing to the level of discord within their coaching ranks. Sometimes the really good athletes need more coaching. I see that as true of this Penn State team.
Wawawaewwawwwawa from the babies. Did we lose? Makes no difference to the hall of lamers here.
You never demote an injured general leading you into battle. Trace may be the gutsiest player in Lion history. We have seen him get crushed like the B1G championship many times. We won. Shut up!
Interesting points on both sides of the argument here. Some follow-on thoughts:
Honestly, a lot of teams figured out the RPO last year. OK, it still gives you some good wrinkles and options. But the run plays are slow to develop, with the back getting the ball deep in the backfield, giving athletic defenses plenty of time to react.
You can't ditch the system at this point in the year. But I'd love to see some formations allowing the backs to get the ball in a little more space. Maybe some pitch-action. Whatever.
I really liked the two-back set they ran yesterday a few times. It throws some things in the mix to defend. I can't recall that we broke any real long-gainers off it, but I think on average we got respectable yards-per-play.
I'd also like to see some more screen plays to Hamler. Really, anything to Hamler. The guy is bottled lightning, and you just get the feeling he has the potential to bust one anytime the ball's in his hands.
Some mentioned the futility of giving up a down on those long balls that Trace never seems to hit anymore. I had the same thought. Granted, you only need one to work to make it worthwhile, but it's a real series-killer to be looking at 2nd (or 3rd) and 10 after missing those throws. Still, I guess you gotta keep it in the arsenal in the hope that Trace may suddenly get the magic back. Getting late in the day for that, however.
Finally, none of us know better than the coaching staff what the issue is with Trace. But I really don't think Franklin is keeping him on the field out of blind loyalty. Nor do I think Franklin would play him if he had a significant injury.
At any rate, when you finally go with Stevens (or Clifford), whether this year (unlikely) or next (a certainty), there'll be a significant learning-and-experience curve. Neither of those guys is gonna run on the field and immediately sling the ball like an All-American. So get ready for some rocky patches when one of them takes over. (And don't blame Rahne.)
I think Franklin believes Trace is healthy enough and gives us the best chance to win against Maryland. Maybe's he's wrong. But he's definitely in a better position to make that judgment than anyone here.
Personally, I think you're gonna see the offense do well against the Terps. Minimum 30 points. Probably 40. 9-3 record. NY6 bowl. You heard it here first!
Honestly, a lot of teams figured out the RPO last year. OK, it still gives you some good wrinkles and options. But the run plays are slow to develop, with the back getting the ball deep in the backfield, giving athletic defenses plenty of time to react.
You can't ditch the system at this point in the year. But I'd love to see some formations allowing the backs to get the ball in a little more space. Maybe some pitch-action. Whatever.
I really liked the two-back set they ran yesterday a few times. It throws some things in the mix to defend. I can't recall that we broke any real long-gainers off it, but I think on average we got respectable yards-per-play.
I'd also like to see some more screen plays to Hamler. Really, anything to Hamler. The guy is bottled lightning, and you just get the feeling he has the potential to bust one anytime the ball's in his hands.
Some mentioned the futility of giving up a down on those long balls that Trace never seems to hit anymore. I had the same thought. Granted, you only need one to work to make it worthwhile, but it's a real series-killer to be looking at 2nd (or 3rd) and 10 after missing those throws. Still, I guess you gotta keep it in the arsenal in the hope that Trace may suddenly get the magic back. Getting late in the day for that, however.
Finally, none of us know better than the coaching staff what the issue is with Trace. But I really don't think Franklin is keeping him on the field out of blind loyalty. Nor do I think Franklin would play him if he had a significant injury.
At any rate, when you finally go with Stevens (or Clifford), whether this year (unlikely) or next (a certainty), there'll be a significant learning-and-experience curve. Neither of those guys is gonna run on the field and immediately sling the ball like an All-American. So get ready for some rocky patches when one of them takes over. (And don't blame Rahne.)
I think Franklin believes Trace is healthy enough and gives us the best chance to win against Maryland. Maybe's he's wrong. But he's definitely in a better position to make that judgment than anyone here.
Personally, I think you're gonna see the offense do well against the Terps. Minimum 30 points. Probably 40. 9-3 record. NY6 bowl. You heard it here first!
Normie, calm down, dude. Take a deep breath.
For your homework tonight, check the tape of every game last year. Then check the tape of every game this year. Then get back to me.
Meanwhile, while you're spluttering about Rahne, I'm making a flat-out prediction: We win big next Saturday. We go to either a NY6 or New Year's (Citrus) bowl.
And after that, you have to explain to us how three straight years of double-digit wins and top-10 finishes are somehow a "failure" requiring the immediate firing of the OC.
While you're at it, explain it to Franklin too.
When that happens, you, being an honorable man, will also apologize for your rudeness to a Penn State fan named Joseph...
It is very good but to compare 10
Win seasons now vs 1980-1982 isn’t apples and apples .we would need at least 11 win seasons.
I will take 10 win seasons of course and it is a good building block. We do need to break through and now understand that our schedule is tough for the next six years as we have 3-5 games in a row that will Be tough.
Win seasons now vs 1980-1982 isn’t apples and apples .we would need at least 11 win seasons.
I will take 10 win seasons of course and it is a good building block. We do need to break through and now understand that our schedule is tough for the next six years as we have 3-5 games in a row that will Be tough.
To be fair, that data is skewed a bit by some lopsided wins against a couple of teams that were rather weak last year.
Whereas I would agree with your contention that Rahne brought a drop-off, it's really tough to ascertain from bulk data whether this has even been the most significant factor overall. There were other, simultaneous factors. I'm sure you are aware of these, but have chosen to focus on Rahne ...
McSorley is not passing as well and can't run. There's no Barkley, a generational talent. We lost receivers who could make the 50:50 catch, and replaced them with guys that struggle to catch even well thrown balls. Just an opinion, but I think Moorhead would not have done much better, if at all, given the same constraints.
We don't even know that The Lion was Rahne's decision. It's probably been political. I'd assume that Franklin decides who will play, not every down, but in an overall sense. That surely includes the receivers.
This year we were weaker defensively. Though the offense itself is much to blame, other teams have been able to keep their offense on the field longer against our defense. The two factors compound each other, making each look worse.
Even the weather was worse this year. That usually hurts offenses, especially those geared towards passing.
My gripe has been with the passing routes we tend to run -- under both Moorhead and Rahne, which are not good for ball control. This might be the price for playing a small, albeit quick (when healthy) quarterback. Again, a decision likely by Franklin, not Rahne.
If you believe Rahne isn't getting it done, then I think it's more appropriate to direct the heat at Franklin. Rahne is who he is. Franklin put him there, is the main guy in most other key decisions, and will be responsible when it's time for a change. Franklin puts his stamp of approval on the game plans each week. So in my mind they are equally culpable for the results.
So who gets the blame for the "rocky patches" with Tua, Daboll or Locksley?
Lots of people crapped on Joe because he played upper classmen over ostensibly more talented younger players. Now when we expect performance on the filed the excuse is that the players are "young." Yeah, I'm the fvcking Joebot.
Didn’t read your War and Piece dripple but we will each call you when we want you to do our thinking for us....
I don't think there has been strong evidence of Moorhead's ability to adjust. Even if there is, I see this year's team dealing with some Franklin-imposed constraints that tend to handcuff adjustments. There were plenty of times when Moorhead was stubborn, inflexible, and called head-scratchers. We just have short memories. We were pleased to become relevant again after the sanctions. We were pleased to see new blood that wasn't constrained by the choices of an 80 year old HC.
I can understand managing someone like Rahne who is a first-year coordinator more closely than guys like Donovan and Moorhead who have more experience. The objective is to add value to the process and there isn't much evidence of that this year. Either that or the hole is the Grand Canyon.
Sorry.
Last year, for Lent, I “gave up” apologizing for my lack of tolerance for stoopid.
I found that I kinda’ liked that “give up”.... so I decided to just make it a permanent thing.
I’m not planning to reverse that decision.
Sorry.
Norm, do you not realize that "stoopid" is in the eye of the beholder. Some people might think that your obsession with Rahne is "stoopid."
But never mind, let's cut to the chase. We're 8-3. I predict we beat Maryland on Saturday, win our bowl, and finish in the top-10.
That would make three consecutive years of at least 10-win seasons and top-10 finishes. Which in the mind of any sane person should buy Rahne at least one more year.
Or should we just fire his ass tomorrow because you and others here know better than Franklin?
Simple question.
Uhm....
What do you do when your entire offense is about spreading the defense with 3 or 4 wide, but only one small guy beyond your freshman tight-end can catch? But you decided as HC to give it time.
How do you adjust when no one can get open, even with linebackers comfortably at home near the line of scrimmage, but your offense is dependent on deep passing?
What do you do after putting all of your eggs in one quarterback basket, but then your QB stops being able to pass, or suddenly can't find guys that are open? What do you do if your offense requires the QB to run, but you haven't developed a backup, and now your QB cannot run?
What do you do when you can't pass with any kind of efficiency, and are forced to run behind an OL that cannot get any surge, because your offensive system doesn't really support effective run-blocking?
What happens if the weather suddenly gets really bad and are forced into a run-game, but can't run it because you've chosen an identity that is about passing and generating "explosive plays?"
How do you rewrite the playbook within days or hours to adapt?
A
anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
Guest
I don’t know what it is, but Penn Satate has been painful to watch much of this season. Was supposed to be a transitional year. And I’ll admit, I lost sight of that while we (err, our team) were taking it to OSU, until we fell apart and began to look like we can’t get out of our own way. That’s lasted much of the season.
There’s an execution problem and a coaching problem. Here’s hoping CJF sees them and is figuring out what must be done to fix them before the folks buying commercial time realize were less of a draw then we were two months ago.
You realize that all of that verbiage adds up to...nothing.
Again, simple question: we beat Maryland, win the bowl to finish with 10 wins and ranked in the top-10 for the third straight year.
You still want to fire Rahne, or should he get another year?
Bonus question: Do you know more about football than Franklin?
I'm gonna keep asking you those questions until you answer, Norm. And all your blathering about "stoopid" will not get you off the hook.
Norm, ditch the emoticons and squirming and avoidance.
In fact, if a person is on firm ground and confident of his opinion, he has no need to call people "stoopid." Only people who have no intelligent answer resort to that.
Again, here are the questions:
A) If we beat Maryland, win the bowl to finish with 10 wins and ranked in the top-10 for the third straight year, do you still want to fire Rahne, or should he get another year?
B) Do you know more about football than Franklin?
Don't give me this one-answer-is-no-and-one-answer-is-yes bullshit. Tell me which is which and why.
That's evidence of Franklin imposing constraints? Could just as easily be evidence of non-interference when interference is warranted.
Dam might be a little late for pop corn but I am getting some!! Relax you won't get direct answer from Barry. He really doesn't have a clue. But keep after it!!! I m enjoying the pop corn!!!
If you don’t see any reason for concern with Rahne, Franklin, and the offensive performance this season, you’re a bit more than stupid.
No one is saying Franklin should be canned. But anyone with a functional brain and eyes should at least question the happenings this season.
From your lips to (hopefully) the ears of someone within PSU’s vast Administration, that .....Franklin and his bloviating-masked incompetence should never be “taken seriously”. I’m eagerly awaiting the day I hear the words “James Franklin has resigned” or “James Franklin has been fired”.
I’m actually wondering what some of the “blue-eyed fans” were thinking while watching that complete abortion of a performance against 1-9 Rutgers.
Woeful on Offense....Putrid on Defense. Gilliken was outstanding, however.
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I believe that an OC or HC is only as good as the weapons on the field. I know it's aggravating for the Nittany Lion fanbase to see the offensive production not as robust as last year and the play calling to be a bit vanilla. But if anyone takes a moment and considers the negative impact of losing Barkley, Gesicki, Hamilton and Blacknall, reality will tell you that it's near impossible to reload that quickly. The fact that this team is in a position to win 10 games is amazing.
Coach Rahne's net worth will be measured next year, when he will be handed a very mature offense and expected to either go with Tommy Stevens or Sean Clifford? This will be the real test.
Coach Rahne's net worth will be measured next year, when he will be handed a very mature offense and expected to either go with Tommy Stevens or Sean Clifford? This will be the real test.
Yeah. Blacknall was a HUGE weapon—he played all the time. And Barkley, Gesicki, and Hamilton would’ve stopped the 4th-and-5 call.
Read somewhere that coming in Rutgers def against run ranked around 119 and pass defense at 25. We tied a season high with 36 attempted passes. And that scheme seemed the choice from first series of game. Thoughts?
Another observation on Trace’s condition...appears ok running straight ahead but has not shown ability to cut. That is contributing greatly to his decreased efficiency.
Another observation on Trace’s condition...appears ok running straight ahead but has not shown ability to cut. That is contributing greatly to his decreased efficiency.
If you don't make changes when changes are warranted (i.e., non-interference), and you are the only one who can make those changes, then I'd say that is imposing a constraint.
This isn't just an issue with the decision on who plays, and when they play. Other aspects within the program are similar -- systems/procedures, team rules, areas of emphasis (or lack thereof), the nature of our offense/defense, and so forth. Essentially anything that the HC controls.
For example, assistant coaches are expected to spend part of their time recruiting. That's obviously done to the exclusion of spending that time planning games and preparing for opponents. It's a constraint, a balance, that the HC needs to get right. When you're paid millions there becomes an expectation that you get it right -- that you get everything right.
There is a lot to the program and in my view Franklin gets most of it right. We tend to debate what we think he doesn't get right. His off-the-field policies are probably the most important thing to get right, and I think he does a fine job there in preserving our traditions. Most alumni would probably agree with this view.
He wont be fired.. not this season at least. Franklin will give him one more year to figure it out.
Many fans from afar forget the fact that college coaches and NFL coaches are much different. Franklin has a strong relationship with these guys, they've been together for years, families practically do everything together. He wont fire him after 1 down year.
I laugh every time someone says "Fire Franklin", thinking that somehow doing so, will get Penn State over the hump. LOL.
Many fans from afar forget the fact that college coaches and NFL coaches are much different. Franklin has a strong relationship with these guys, they've been together for years, families practically do everything together. He wont fire him after 1 down year.
I laugh every time someone says "Fire Franklin", thinking that somehow doing so, will get Penn State over the hump. LOL.
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