Franklin
- Thread starter WV Bruno
- Start date
You are talking to a guy who lives for bad takes. Exhibit A:
You know, because you can instantly build OL depth after the coach who left recruited 5 OL in 2 cycles.
B:
Now BOB couldn't win 10 games with Paterno recruits. Yet, JF is supposed to win 10 games with the 34th and 47th rated kids from BOBs 2 classes?
Top 2 defense? From a group that finished 29 in total defense, 50 against the pass, 23 against the rush, 16 in scoring. Again, you have to be living in bizarro world to think anything remotely like he does or be a grade A troll, dedicated to the act.
99% of posters here believed that it was going to be '18 before we got a good team and '20 before we might sniff the playoff.
C:
Best deep threat in the conference? He didn't even finish top 10 in any metric. A freshman mind you. Finished 4th on the team in receptions, but the best deep threat in the conference.
And D:
Jesse James caught 30+ for 300+ yards in '14. Carter caught 16 for 150. Gesicki 11 for 110. Very curious how someone can think Gesicki took from Carter.
Truth be told, BOB got lucky he inherited Allen Robinson. His 1400+ yards made Hack look semi competent in '13. Same way Hopkins did for him in the NFL. Funny that for such a "great football mind", he comes to Bama and is told "here, this is Sarks playbook; don't eff it up."
You are flipping crazy if you believe that nonsense. Everything you said is simply wrong. So wrong you aren't even worth the effort.
McSorley was a Superman that night but left it all on the field and was never the same the rest of the season. He had one of the absolute greatest games by a PSU QB ever... and almost singlehandedly beat the Bucks.
Legitimate numbers and stats are crazy and wrong?
Yet your opinions are what, gold?
You can dip a turd in gold. Dry it. Shine it. Parade it in front of everybody likes its something special, but it's still a turd.
If you are a true representation of a PSU fan, then I'd rather associate with Pitters.
Welcome to Wally Wonkers wacky world of Penn State Football.
Using that logic then Penn State is a marquis program under Franklin because of 2016,2017,2019. Put it this way from 1997 to 2014 when Franklin took over those were the only three Top 10 seasons Penn State had. Does that really make them a marquis program?
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What planet are you living on?
1. When Franklin got here the program still had scholarship taken away. They were still rebuilding a depleted roster.
2. What 10 win team? Penn State hadn't won 10 games in the 4 seasons prior to Franklin taking over. They were 7-5 the year before.
3. Top 2 defense? in 2013 Penn State was 48 in total defense and 59 in scoring defense. On what planet is that top 2 defense?
4. Zack Zwinak was a mediocre running back at best. He was sharing reps and was behind Belton under O'Brien. He had a season ending injury on the opening kick off in the 7 game under Franklin.
5. You are crazy if you think Hakenberg was the best pro qb in the country. He proved he was a camp phenom and never lived up to the recruiting hype. There is a reason he never played a snap in the NFL and was cut after two season. There was a reason why he was an epic failure in the AFF league. He simply wasn't as good as the hype.
6. Carter was still the starter and started 10 games under Franklin. Calling him some dynamic player is a joke. The season before he had 18 catches for 223 yards. It not like he was some all world performer.
7. Geno Lewis was getting pushed out by better receivers in DaeSean Hamilton and Chris Godwin who were clearly better as both are in the NFL while he is in the CFL . He chose to leave and struggle at OU in an offense with a Heisman winning QB and a prolific offense.
Wally World.
He writes some amazingly bizarre takes that rational people couldn't possibly come up with unless he's trolling like wolvie or completely delusional.
Geno Lewis as the best deep threat in the entire conference his freshman year? Mwahaha. He was never the best deep threat in STATE COLLEGE, much less the Big 10.
I sometimes wonder if he isn't BOBs cousins sisters nephew if he is legit.
You lose all credibility right here, there's no reason to read anything more about your thoughts on the matter.
all of these arguments on which coach was better and why are not solving anything. I’ll distill it all and solve these squabbles in one sentence: Since we joined the Big Ten, ALL of our head football coaches have been a disappointment.
All have been failures to one degree or another. PSU has won this conference 4 times in 29 seasons. PSU has a losing record vs Ohio State. PSU has a losing record vs Michigan. Thus, since all 3 Head Coaches have contributed to this awful record of losing the games that matter and not winning the conference more than 13.8 percent of the time, all are guilty of underperforming. All 3 lost too many games. All 3 did not win enough games. PSU is now, thanks to all 3, a 2nd tier program and playoff after thought.
Thus, arguments over which was better/worse/had the right coordinators/ better or worse O or D/ better recruiter, blah, blah are in the weeds. Since entering the Big Ten, PSU football is not nearly what it should be. Period, end of argument.
I agree with your point, but let me ask, what should penn state be? This is not coming from a defeatist point of view, but honestly, what does Penn State deserve to be in this league? Better than O$U? Better than Michigan? Why? What inherent advantages does Penn State have over those two schools? I happen to think Penn State should NEVER lose to Maryland or Illinois and I don't give a damn about sanctions or covid(apparently Penn State was the only school that was forced to deal with that). I stop short at saying penn state should have a better record than a place like OSU. More money, more tradition, more players to the NFL, better coaching, less academic constraints on the players, more more more.
PSU should have no worse than a .500 record vs O$U and UM, and have the same number of conference titles since 1993 as O$U and UM do. We aren’t anywhere close as of today. In approximately 1996, we were thought of as even with, if not better than both as a program. Look at us now - completely unacceptable unless program decline is ok by our leaders? Apparently it is. Where is our football version of Cael Sanderson? THAT is a guy who understands how to WIN!
First off, I am pretty much in lock step with ShoreLion. The Big Ten era has not been good, though I would argue we were the best team in the league from 05 to 10. I would caveat that with stating with absolute certainty, that the Big Ten conference was the best league in the country from 1993 until 2010 and it has been the best league many times since. What should Penn State be? In my opinion, trying to out Ohio State as Franklin does every year is idiotic. Ohio State is essentially an SEC school playing by SEC rules. With that said, under Dantonio, Sparty was up to the task for the first half of the previous decade and produced the two best teams the Big Ten produced and the best team nationally (2013) during the decade. That is the model. Essentially Iowa, with Penn State talent which is mostly what we did from 2005 to 2009. We may not compete for the Big Ten every year given the fact that Ohio State plays by different rules, but the approach does work. If we could get the right coach in, we could compete for a Big Ten title every 3/4 years and have a shot at the national championship about every 4. Essentially Joe's plan, which is still viable while graduating players and keeping them out of the news for bad reasons. Sadly, we have 8 years of data conclusively indicating that Franklin is not the coach. With Franklin, I would hope we stay within spitting distance of Michigan State and Michigan and ahead of Rutgers, Maryland and Indiana.
Put the crack pipe down. Let see the best team from 05 to 10 was 2-4 vs Ohio State, 3-3 vs Michigan, Finished 4th in the conference twice and finished 5th once and won the conference only twice. Ohio State on the other hand won the conference every year and went 4-2 vs Penn State. Ohio State had a record of 66-11 (43-5 in conference) compared to Penn State's 58-19 (33-15 in conference). Only in your delusional mind you could make an argument that Penn State was the best team in the conference in that time period.
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It’s not just Coach Franklin, though he is as guilty of underperforming as is Coach Paterno , and to a lesser extent Coach O’Brien. It’s ALL 3. Even JVP only won the conference 3 times in 18 seasons. He had losing seasons in 2000, 2001, an abject disaster in 2003, and another losing season in 2004. That’s more losing seasons than conference titles! Horrendous.
in 1996, we were considered the equals of Ohio State as a program. Now we can barely see their exhaust over the horizon. What the heck happened? And, why did PSU sit back and let it happen? Do not exonerate Paterno in this - he’s the one that put Princey-Prince in charge of recruiting Ohio. And, per usual when that guy touched anything in the football program, our success cratered. No more Jeff Hartings, Kim Herrings, and Ki Jana Carters. But lots of Iorio and Cadogan types of players. In other words, guys that were difference makers were no more, we got guys that weren’t offered by Ohio State instead. Rule 1 of recruiting: you will not beat Ohio State with players that aren’t good enough to play for Ohio State. PSU forgot that rule for much of the last 20 + years.
this program was allowed to deteriorate compared to our real competition. We all see the results.
in 1996, we were considered the equals of Ohio State as a program. Now we can barely see their exhaust over the horizon. What the heck happened? And, why did PSU sit back and let it happen? Do not exonerate Paterno in this - he’s the one that put Princey-Prince in charge of recruiting Ohio. And, per usual when that guy touched anything in the football program, our success cratered. No more Jeff Hartings, Kim Herrings, and Ki Jana Carters. But lots of Iorio and Cadogan types of players. In other words, guys that were difference makers were no more, we got guys that weren’t offered by Ohio State instead. Rule 1 of recruiting: you will not beat Ohio State with players that aren’t good enough to play for Ohio State. PSU forgot that rule for much of the last 20 + years.
this program was allowed to deteriorate compared to our real competition. We all see the results.
Yes, very happy. He can come over for a Harbaugh style sleepover any day.
I would rephrase: it must be strange to be a fan of a team (alum, per chance) that clearly doesn’t care that said team/school has rather consistently underperformed, regardless of Head Coach or staff, particularly when compared to its 2 main rivals, for 29 seasons.
I simply don’t understand that attitude - especially so when upon joining this paraochial, favoritism-besotted cesspool of a conference, the alums and fans were told that it would be an absolute positive for the football program to “compete for a championship every season”. What a package of nonsense, as we’ve rarely competed for one in the 29+ years since that was promulgated.
the facts are what they are, and a logical PSU fan and alumnus (and I am both) can only draw one conclusion: the administration back in 1992, to include the Head football Coach, were full of it and allowed our beloved program to slide ever closer to the 2nd tier status that the Big Ten wanted for us all along (the Big Ten cares, and tirelessly advocates for 2 schools - UM and O$U). We have now arrived at our pre-determined destination. I object to all of it. And everyone who proclaims to love Dear Old State should as well.
I simply don’t understand that attitude - especially so when upon joining this paraochial, favoritism-besotted cesspool of a conference, the alums and fans were told that it would be an absolute positive for the football program to “compete for a championship every season”. What a package of nonsense, as we’ve rarely competed for one in the 29+ years since that was promulgated.
the facts are what they are, and a logical PSU fan and alumnus (and I am both) can only draw one conclusion: the administration back in 1992, to include the Head football Coach, were full of it and allowed our beloved program to slide ever closer to the 2nd tier status that the Big Ten wanted for us all along (the Big Ten cares, and tirelessly advocates for 2 schools - UM and O$U). We have now arrived at our pre-determined destination. I object to all of it. And everyone who proclaims to love Dear Old State should as well.
Of course, all the fans would like to see us beating the top tier teams, and we may return to that double digit win season at some point. I have seen a number of 8-4 predictions for this coming season which is probably realistic given the direction of the team the last two seasons. I think Franklin can field good teams, but I don't see him getting to that elite level. I hope I am wrong. But bottom line I think he has the values that will make him a good fit at Penn State.
Paterno had a (very) stable staff and his own "brand" which supported the program and recruiting. Franklin tried to shift gears, modernize the facilities and the general approach of the program. He is starting from behind, trying to play catch-up with OSU/Mich/etc in regards to facilities, branding, recent tradition, and now NIL. He's doing a solid all-around job from what I can tell, besides some goofy in-game calls and lack of staff stability which is not entirely up to him.
I've been disappointed too. Here's hoping 2022 is a turnaround point.
As for the BigTen, they will support the bell-cows to promote the conference on a national stage for conference notoriety and tv contract money. Win games, become bell-cow, get more conference support. Maybe we can start a season without a road conference game for once 😂
2022 will indeed be the turn around: it will be Franklin's final season at Penn State.
One thing I will say. Paterno used to blow out or at least defeat teams like last year's Arkansas team in bowl gamess. Franklin has no wow factor at all. This coming from an outsider. I watched a special on the 86 team the other night. Interesting.
Coach Paterno was an exceptional bowl game coach. He was a barely adequate Big Ten conference game coach. Penn State prior to Coach Franklin, was a very good bowl game team/program. Penn State has been, and continues to be EXACTLY what the Big Ten wanted when we joined: a program that beats out of conference teams thus representing the conference well, but is no real threat to the only 2 schools the conference gives a damn about: UM and O$U. It was all pre-arranged: join, bring your rabid fan base and your huge TV audience, and then spend decades being hosed by Big Ten refs and become a second tier program. Mission accomplished - and what will Franklin do to change it? Nothing, as he is 1-7 vs O$U, and 3-4 vs UM. When will PSU learn that there are 3, and only 3 success metrics for on-field football performance:
1. Beat UM
2. Beat O$U
3. Win the conference title
That is IT! Nothing else will be accomplished until those 3 things are (playoffs as currently constructed, national titles, etc.). Bowl games don’t mean a blessed thing anymore. And when will we have a Head Coach that understands this? We have had none so far…
I don't agree that JVP was a "barely adequate Big Ten conference game coach." IIRC, in the first ten years of PSU being in the conference, we had the best W/L of any team. this, despite, some very one-sided called games by the refs. As we moved into 2003 and beyond, I feel like a combination of things happened. The first is that Joe aged and probably got out of touch. Second, things changed. PSU wanted to be a regional team serving kids from this area. We had few kids from outside the region. But cable TV changed everything. Brands were suddenly national and recruiting became national. At the same time, teams further surrendered their mission to serve "student-athletes" to win games. PSU always put student as a priority over athlete. The reality of the B1G is that the conference has become tOSU and everyone else. While teams like Iowa and Sparty improved, PSU really hasn't (except when they had the best RB in the nation).
The bottom line, to me, is that PSU wanted things to stay the same in college football. The game was played by dedicated students who were loyal to PSU. The school was happy to make money but not at the cost of the players. tOSU simply became a football factory and finally, as of late, simply admits it.
Penn State football is exactly what and where the biased suits of the Big Ten wanted and still wants us to be: a 2nd tier program that will be no real threat to their favored children, O$U and UM. And our athletic administrators either sat back and let it happen, or conspired, willingly or not, to help it happen. This situation should be intolerable to the Nittany Nation. But apparently, the majority is cool with still being the red-headed stepson at the family reunion. It’s a damn shame what our football program became, and an even bigger shame that the University doesn’t seem to care As long as it remains a cash machine.
Hmm, wasn't that before players opted out of bowl games? i.e. the best players, which has really upset bowl prep for all teams but impacts each team differently.....
Hard to judge bowl games with the current rules and player opt outs. Except for the teams in the playoff that have all their players because they are playing for something more....
If players opt out before bowl games that's a reflection of the coach. How many Alabama and Georgia players have opted out before bowl games in recent years?
So many resident experts get confused by the facts.....LOL
9 Bulldogs reportedly have opted out of Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl
Linebacker Azeez Ojulari is now the ninth Bulldog to opt-out of playing in the Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl, according to DawgNation.
So when those players are drafted, that must be a "reflection" of the coach?
It's not a reflection on the coach.
Alabama and UGA players more so don't opt out because they are playing in the playoff, actually playing for something of prestige. When they aren't in the playoff their players will opt out as well.
PSU hasn't played in a meaningful bowl game since before opt outs became prevalent, which is why it's an easy choice to opt out.
And for all we know Franklin is advising the NFL projected high draft choices to opt out, which is a service to these player and their families. And from his standpoint the team may benefit more by playing the next years potential starters to have a better chance of better team performance the following year.
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