Flo’s lawsuit against Willie and Rokfin

[Sportfan2017]

Frontal lobotomy versus bottle in front of me?

I have had both......can't remember which I liked better

 

[Sportfan2017]

Tastes great versus less filling!

Man you're old

 

[PAgeologist]

Frontal lobotomy versus bottle in front of me?

You could accomplish the lobotomy
if the bottle in front of you was large enough.

 

[dunkej01]

You could accomplish the lobotomy
if the bottle in front of you was large enough.

Mind blown

 

[bowandarrow]

I honestly had no clue until this thread that it was RoKfin. Life changing.

Based on sister Flo writing to another Brother Flo and the other brother Flo twittering it, is there more drama to this story? My law skills are lacking, but my Real Housewives skills are topnotch---and this smells like the potential for a cliff hanger episode where everyone is fighting at Christmas dinner.

 

[dunkej01]

Appreciate this hole thread. Its enlightening.

But middle merica needs to move a long. Got to work a 7-7, so I'll say it this way.

Willie wins on the web and flo wins in the board room.

 

[Phantom of the Palestra]

Without outing myself too much - though I have in the past - supporting capital intensive renewable energy projects from beginning (e.g. site control, due diligence issues) to end (dealing with financings). It’s fun being able to contribute to tangible things rather than endlessly arguing with others in support of my clients. I might be negotiating land leases one day and, depending on things falling into place, massive cranes are out there 2-3 years later building a 300-500 million dollar project.

Lots of drafting and lots of cat herding. I know the basics of non-competes, but that’s it. And I stay as far away from the courtroom as possible.

Best of all - I work for a company, not a firm, so I don’t have to bill my time in 6 minute increments. Just get your work done.

He takes his name from a former Philly Mob Boss and he works in construction.My guess is he is herding those cats at gun point.

 

[Callthestall]

I finally had a chance to read the FLO complaint. This is strictly my opinion but I would think that Willie might be in some trouble.
I do think even though Willie came up with rankings and terms,he was employed by Flo who would own the content. If Willie wanted exclusive rights to term he should of gotten a Trademark for such issue. An example would be what Pat Riley did with the term "Threepeat".
I am just business owner and know a little about non-compete for Pennsylvania but not for other states. My wife who is not a lawyer has worked mostly for lawyers and judges so I occasionally hear about law cases. I merely try to use common sense on my take of the situation.
The one thing to be aware of, if it goes to jury trial , is where the jurors come from. Travis County is very Republican but Austin is Democratic. A majority Republican jury would most likely side with FLO and the one year non-compete agreement.

 

[RoarLions1]

I finally had a chance to read the FLO complaint. This is strictly my opinion but I would think that Willie might be in some trouble.
I do think even though Willie came up with rankings and terms,he was employed by Flo who would own the content. If Willie wanted exclusive rights to term he should of gotten a Trademark for such issue. An example would be what Pat Riley did with the term "Threepeat".
I am just business owner and know a little about non-compete for Pennsylvania but not for other states. My wife who is not a lawyer has worked mostly for lawyers and judges so I occasionally hear about law cases. I merely try to use common sense on my take of the situation.
The one thing to be aware of, if it goes to jury trial , is where the jurors come from. Travis County is very Republican but Austin is Democratic. A majority Republican jury would most likely side with FLO and the one year non-compete agreement.

There's nothing common about common sense, especially in my line of work. Just saying.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

dual v duel

Cael vs Carl

 

[86PSUPaul]

Your versus you’re


And noone versus no one

 

[El-Jefe]

"THE" vs. "an" OSU.

 

[Pennstate1985]

As already seemed obvious, it's a suit seeking damages for Willie's alleged violation of the non-compete clause in his employment agreement. Flo claims that Willie downloaded from Flo and immediately began providing to Rokfin his same content--the examples Flo provides are Willie's rankings. Flo also cites Willie's tweet about "Who's #1" being his "from conception to execution" as an example of his alleged plan to continue misappropriating Flo's property.

The complaint also names Rokfin as a defendant and accuses it of tortious interference by inducing Willie to break his employment agreement and provide similar services to Rokfin.

I have a few thoughts because I think Flo is on shaky ground here. This isn't my area, and I don't really have an idea what a Texas court will do with it, but I do know that the trend, nationwide, is to view non-compete clauses skeptically and narrowly. Some states have banned them outright.

But before I get to non-competes, there's another issue lurking here. It's not immediately clear to me that a Texas court has jurisdiction over Rokfin (a Wisconsin company) or Willie (a Pennsylvania resident). I'm not going to go entirely down the diversity jurisdiction rabbit hole but there's an argument that a federal court is the proper venue for this dispute, not Texas, even if the federal court would be deciding Texas law. [Edit to correct mistake about Rokfin's place of business]

On to non-competes. The issue of non-compete agreements arises here in the context of an injunction request, and the standard for obtaining injunctions is distinct from the ultimate underlying legal question of whether the defendant has violated his employment agreement. Flo must show that it has a "a probable right" to enforce the agreement; and that if not enforced, Flo will suffer a "probable, imminent, and irreparable injury" "for which [they] have no adequate legal remedy." This means that even if the court finds that the agreement is probably valid, if it was possible for Flo to calculate its damages (in terms of money), the injunction won't be granted. Some Texas courts ignore this imminent injury requirement, though.

As to the underlying issue of the agreement's enforcebability, Texas law, like most states and federal law, imposes a reasonableness standard, effectively limiting non-compete clauses as to (1) Time; (2) Geographic Area; and (3) Scope of Activity.

As for Time, Texas has found 1-2 year agreements reasonable, so that aspect of the agreement is uncontroversial.

As for geographic area, the non-compete language included in the complaint is interesting. It states that for one year after termination, a Flo employee won't compete "in the region and/or cities in which I am responsible for conducting business for the Company...", which the contract defines as the "Geographic Territory." It further prohibits the terminated employee from performing "the same or similar duties" as was performed at Flo (also within the "Geographic Territory").

Since Flo employees are responsible for "conducting business" in numerous cities beyond Austin, Flo's notion of "Geographic Territory" is pretty much everywhere on earth where wrestling might occur. Reasonable? Dicey.

As to the "scope of activity" consideration, it might be significant that the basis for the dispute is Willie's *rankings.* Even if a judge was predisposed to finding the non-compete otherwise valid, they might look sideways at the idea of enforcing it to the extent of prohibiting Willie from ranking wrestlers. Rankings aren't intrinsic to Flo, it's a core activity/service in every sport and as I said above, courts are wary of enforcing non-competes too broadly. That said, rankings are copyrightable, though just barely meeting the "originality" requirement as expressed in Feist v. Rural Telephone.

I've not looked at Texas case law on any of these prongs so the above is just reasonable guesses about what a judge might do if a judge exercised minimal skepticism about non-compete clauses. A non-curious judge might just look at the complaint and see that Willie reposted "his" rankings at Rokfin and be satisfied that there's a breach.

A wildcard aspect to the non-compete analysis (perhaps it goes to 'Scope of Activity') is the size of wrestling media universe, which cuts strongly in Willie's favor. To enforce this non-compete in the manner Flo is requesting is equivalent to preventing Willie from working anywhere, because any wrestling media will be a competitor to Flo. It's a small pond, as everyone knows.

Texas business law starts from the proposition that every restraint on trade is unlawful, with certain exceptions, of which valid non-compete clauses is one. Prohibiting Willie from working in wrestling media at all for a year--which is what Flo's request amounts to--seems to go well beyond the reasonability requirement imposed on all non-compete agreements.

Very nice write up. I’ve dealt with non competes from both sides for years. Your next to last paragraph will be key and win the day for Willie. Much too broad for courts nowadays.

 

[matter7172]

Very nice write up. I’ve dealt with non competes from both sides for years. Your next to last paragraph will be key and win the day for Willie. Much too broad for courts nowadays.

Yes. One of the key tests for non-competes is that they can't be overly broad if they are to be upheld by courts.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Whatever stout is on tap in Minnesota.

Imperial stouts are in my wheelhouse. Old Rasputin is my fave. Not to mention big Belgians.

 

[nerfstate]

Imperial stouts are in my wheelhouse. Old Rasputin is my fave. Not to mention big Belgians.

Old Rasputin is great!

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Yes. One of the key tests for non-competes is that they can't be overly broad if they are to be upheld by courts.

I already stated that I don’t have much experience with them, but I’ve long viewed overly broad ones like those outrageously onerous liability releases you sign before white-water rafting, bungee jumping, etc. Those things will almost never pass muster in court, but they’re meant to intimidate you - to keep you from challenging them. “I signed a release honey - I guess I have no case”

Generally the law, especially as it modernized, casts a dim view on high leverage entities putting the screws to low-leverage entities. It’s a matter of public policy and equity.

Check out one of those releases 1 day and really read it. Some of them release the company from whatever happens. Get the **** out of here. In 1880 when you had factory workers falling into boiling vats of lard because there were no guard rails, that type of stuff went unpunished. Fortunately the law evolved.

 

[Aardvark86]

Side note: the foo business model only works if you can more or less monopolize content distribution in a niche sport.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Side note: the foo business model only works if you can more or less monopolize content distribution in a niche sport.

This is the key to everything. Just imagine the subscription price bumps if they succeed.

 

[Raw Daddy]

Side note: the foo business model only works if you can more or less monopolize content distribution in a niche sport.

Very relevant point. The whole thing starts to unravel for wrestling if 1-2 more people leave and they can't replace names/content fast enough.
They lost #1. Makes the lawsuit even more valuable to Flo. Likely part of the reason for the expansion into other sports even more so than what was originally concocted.

 

[El-Jefe]

Very relevant point. The whole thing starts to unravel for wrestling if 1-2 more people leave and they can't replace names/content fast enough.
They lost #1. Makes the lawsuit even more valuable to Flo. Likely part of the reason for the expansion into other sports even more so than what was originally concocted.

 

[csiebott]

I already stated that I don’t have much experience with them, but I’ve long viewed overly broad ones like those outrageously onerous liability releases you sign before white-water rafting, bungee jumping, etc. Those things will almost never pass muster in court, but they’re meant to intimidate you - to keep you from challenging them. “I signed a release honey - I guess I have no case”

Generally the law, especially as it modernized, casts a dim view on high leverage entities putting the screws to low-leverage entities. It’s a matter of public policy and equity.

Check out one of those releases 1 day and really read it. Some of them release the company from whatever happens. Get the **** out of here. In 1880 when you had factory workers falling into boiling vats of lard because there were no guard rails, that type of stuff went unpunished. Fortunately the law evolved.

kinda sorta. its the arbitration clause that will stick.

 

[1032004]

Very relevant point. The whole thing starts to unravel for wrestling if 1-2 more people leave and they can't replace names/content fast enough.

No it doesn’t. I’d guess 95% of people that subscribe to Flo do it for the live matches, not some talking heads. It starts to unravel if they start getting outbid for the streaming rights.

 

[Aardvark86]

Very relevant point. The whole thing starts to unravel for wrestling if 1-2 more people leave and they can't replace names/content fast enough.
They lost #1. Makes the lawsuit even more valuable to Flo. Likely part of the reason for the expansion into other sports even more so than what was originally concocted.

They are doing same in rugby. The key is niche sports where they think they won’t draw competition. It’s basically the exact thing Martin shkreli did with the drug daraprim.

Edit: re rugby, I am not sure abou this but it looks like foo may be separate from Alex Goff, who was the willie of rugby.

 

[Aardvark86]

No it doesn’t. I’d guess 95% of people that subscribe to Flo do it for the live matches, not some talking heads. It starts to unravel if they start getting outbid for the streaming rights.

Which is why they focus on niche sports. They have nothing to do with growing a sport

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Which is why they focus on niche sports. They have nothing to do with growing a sport

At the top, they don’t give a shit. It’s always about the money. The sports are fungible. It’s the grinders at the lower levels of the matrix who are doing it for the love.

 

[PSU_Lion_Fan]

At the top, they don’t give a shit. It’s always about the money. The sports are fungible. It’s the grinders at the lower levels of the matrix who are doing it for the love.

Very true.

 

[Reslo]

They are doing same in rugby. The key is niche sports where they think they won’t draw competition. It’s basically the exact thing Martin shkreli did with the drug daraprim.

This is a stretch. Shkreli was jeopardizing people's lives by increasing drug prices. The powers that be at Flo aren't angels, but it's hardly life or death.

 

[backdrft76]

Flo coming off as petty IMO...

 

[Aardvark86]

This is a stretch. Shkreli was jeopardizing people's lives by increasing drug prices. The powers that be at Flo aren't angels, but it's hardly life or death.

Well duh. But the dynamic of buying a small market product and jacking the price because you know the markets too small to entice competitors is identical.

 

[dunkej01]

I dont want flo to fail, but I do want competition. Lots of it.

I still harbor ill will towards flo for the Nat Duals finals streaming debacle, so if willie sticks it to em. Stick it hard

 

[NittanyChris]

Maybe Willie can charge us to see what he's wearing to court tomorrow.

 

[donboy6499]

No it doesn’t. I’d guess 95% of people that subscribe to Flo do it for the live matches, not some talking heads. It starts to unravel if they start getting outbid for the streaming rights.

I just subscribed for the first time last month. All for the streaming. The other stuff, whatever. Willie gets too much credit. Until someone else carries what Flo carries as far as matches, there’s a moat there.

 

[CowboyUp61]

I dont want flo to fail, but I do want competition. Lots of it.

I still harbor ill will towards flo for the Nat Duals finals streaming debacle, so if willie sticks it to em. Stick it hard

Should have come down with Spyker! Maybe you would have seen him...or at least his cousin!

 

[WEAREPSU_LI]

Willie seems to think people subscribed for his rankings, or at least many people did, but there are other people that rank. It's the streaming that people sign up for. The articles and rankings are niceties that don't bring in the big bucks.

 

[TangSoo]

View embedded media

Flo coming off as petty IMO...

I don't think the non-compete will stick. But content created by Willie while under the employ of Flo is Flo's content. I do think they have grounds in that area.

 

[tikk10]

Event Date Party Type Description
12/18/2019 PL MSF:NEW BOND ID CREATED
12/18/2019 DF ISS:TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORD
12/18/2019 DF ISS:TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORD
12/17/2019 DF RESPONSE
12/17/2019 DF RESPONSE
12/16/2019 DF ORIG ANSWER/SPECIAL APPEARANCE
12/16/2019 DF ORIG ANSWER/SPECIAL APPEARANCE
12/9/2019 PL EXECUTED SERVICE
12/9/2019 DF EXECUTED SERVICE
12/9/2019 DF EXECUTED SERVICE
12/4/2019 DF ISS:CITATION
12/4/2019 DF ISS:CITATION
11/27/2019 PL ORIGINAL PETITION/APPLICATION

 

[bowandarrow]

Event Date Party Type Description
12/18/2019 PL MSF:NEW BOND ID CREATED
12/18/2019 DF ISS:TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORD
12/18/2019 DF ISS:TEMPORARY RESTRAINING ORD
12/17/2019 DF RESPONSE
12/17/2019 DF RESPONSE
12/16/2019 DF ORIG ANSWER/SPECIAL APPEARANCE
12/16/2019 DF ORIG ANSWER/SPECIAL APPEARANCE
12/9/2019 PL EXECUTED SERVICE
12/9/2019 DF EXECUTED SERVICE
12/9/2019 DF EXECUTED SERVICE
12/4/2019 DF ISS:CITATION
12/4/2019 DF ISS:CITATION
11/27/2019 PL ORIGINAL PETITION/APPLICATION

Gonna need the smart people to explain this to me.

 

[tikk10]

Gonna need the smart people to explain this to me.

This is the docket from yesterday, I hit Reply before explaining it. But basically it appears to mean that the judge granted Flo's request for a a temporary injunction against both Rokfin and Willie. No idea of the scope of that injunction, but there will be another day in court, at minimum.

 

[Creek Side]

This is the docket from yesterday, I hit Reply before explaining it. But basically it appears to mean that the judge granted Flo's request for a a temporary injunction against both Rokfin and Willie. No idea of the scope of that injunction, but there will be another day in court, at minimum.

Does this mean that Willie can’t report on wrestling or he just can’t talk about Flo?