Feels like a slap in the face

[coveydidnt]

Which is of course why the A9 and Paterno family wants all proceedings sealed and PSU and the NCAA have opted for total openness...... Oops--that's not quite the way it is, is it?

That is exactly how it is.

• The A9 were fighting for both access and openness. They were offered access, and caved on openness. This, of course, satisfied their own curiosity but is a FAIL on openness.
• The Paterno's got depositions from a slew of parties. They could have pressed the point in a trial. But, their own curiosity satisfied, they caved. FAIL on openness.

As a matter of actual fact, these two groups, Paternos, and A9, by dropping their cases like they did, have done more to slam the door on the truth than TSM's shredders ever did. They were the two last hopes for truth and neither group gave two whits in the end.

 

[getmyjive11]

It's also ineffectual if one group effectively controls most of the remaining seats through methods at best (as stated by the PA Auditor General) questionable and certainly undemocratic.

Which is why you elect or appoint through the voice of the people.

 

[getmyjive11]

are they, now, administrators or "leaders?" Why isn't it MM's responsibility to report it instead of "administrators?" And to whom?

Again, you are talking to some who feels that everyone involved in 2001 failed. However, once the information was passed to CSS, they were in charge of taking action. The court has determined there to be criminal liability... I don't necessarily agree do to how poor the law was written at the time, but what I absolutely do think is that, at minimum, they had a duty to protect PSU. They did not do that. Then there is the moral liability of suspecting CSA and not taking that to the authorities regardless of the law on reporting. For both of those things, I am angry at CSS for their decided COA. It was both careless and crass.

 

[Obliviax]

Again, you are talking to some who feels that everyone involved in 2001 failed. However, once the information was passed to CSS, they were in charge of taking action. The court has determined there to be criminal liability... I don't necessarily agree do to how poor the law was written at the time, but what I absolutely do think is that, at minimum, they had a duty to protect PSU. They did not do that. Then there is the moral liability of suspecting CSA and not taking that to the authorities regardless of the law on reporting. For both of those things, I am angry at CSS for their decided COA. It was both careless and crass.

The court did no such thing, at least for C&S, they plead guilty after the state broke all records in terms of time and money pursuing what turned out to be a misdemeanor. For Spanier, they made up a charge that there was no statute of limitations because the non-reporting was "ongoing" and that when the laws changed, he should have reported it. Both are ridiculous and, before you ask, there is a reason for "statute of limitations".

Back at you, if you are going to criminally prosecute CS&S, why not MM or Dranov or anyone at TSM? The reason is either political or criminal. There can be no other reason.

 

[getmyjive11]

The court did no such thing, at least for C&S, they plead guilty after the state broke all records in terms of time and money pursuing what turned out to be a misdemeanor. For Spanier, they made up a charge that there was no statute of limitations because the non-reporting was "ongoing" and that when the laws changed, he should have reported it. Both are ridiculous and, before you ask, there is a reason for "statute of limitations".

Back at you, if you are going to criminally prosecute CS&S, why not MM or Dranov or anyone at TSM? The reason is either political or criminal. There can be no other reason.

MM wouldn't get charge then or today because he reported the incident to his superiors. JR should have been indicted. Dranov probably should have been indicted as well. None of that excuses the COA from CSS.

 

[kgilbert78]

MM wouldn't get charge then or today because he reported the incident to his superiors. JR should have been indicted. Dranov probably should have been indicted as well. None of that excuses the COA from CSS.

The same would then be true for Paterno. By the exact same reasoning.

That said, the state had to really twist the law (not to mention the Constitution) to get a minor conviction on CSS.

Note that I have no problem in saying CSS screwed up. I just don't think it should have been a criminal case for a number of reasons.

 

[didier]

Spanier denied appeal trial.

 

[gohigh79]

Spanier denied appeal trial.

Article link:

http://www.centredaily.com/news/local/education/penn-state/jerry-sandusky/article159721434.html

I look forward to these three men coming without their full and true side of the story, though I doubt they will say much before the completion of their probation (if they live that long, which I certainly hope they do).

 

[Pennsy_Kraken]

are they, now, administrators or "leaders?" Why isn't it MM's responsibility to report it instead of "administrators?" And to whom?

No doubt - beyond MM, if MM told his father and Dr. Dranov that the child was being raped by Sandusky while it was still IN-PROGRESS, as the State claims in their Indicting Documents (State claims MM's father was told TWICE that the Child was being raped by Sandusky while it was IN-PROGRESS - once while MM was at Lasch and called him and once while at his house with Dr. Dranov), AND John McQueary and Dr. Dranov recommended that he go to sleep and make a non-criminal, obtuse, administrative report to his employer at a later date RATHER than call the Police/911 and send help immediately to the scene of a CLEAR CRIME IN-PROGRESS....they are clearly guilty of the Felony Offense of what is called in most jurisdictions "Accessory After the Fact", but is prosecuted under the "Obstruction of Justice" Code in PA.

It is a complete joke that the State claims in their Indicting Documents that both John McQueary and Dr. Dranov were told by Mike that he "SAW" and "EYEWITNESSED" Sandusky anally-raping the child, but brought no charges against John McQueary or Dr. Dranov for "Obstruction of Justice" when they were clearly guilty of "Accessory After the Fact" if what the State claims is true!!

It is DOUBLY RIDICULOUS that they charged anyone of any crime using their Indictment "Probable Clause" claim that Mike McQueary "SAW" and "EYEWITNESSED" the sexual assault anal-rape of the child and told them about this crime when:

• When Mike McQueary never told the Grand Jury this in his testimony and told them the Grand Jury the DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE (i.e., he DID NOT see or eyewitness such a crime) according to none other than Mike McQueary himself at the time the Presentment and Indictments were released....AS WELL AS multiple times AT-TRIAL where he not only said he NEVER "saw" or "eyewitnessed" such a thing, but added that he NEVER TOLD ANYONE, including the OAG, HE HAD!
• Ditto regading John McQueary's and Dr. Dranov's multiple forms of testimony including the Grand Jury - they say the State's claims that Mike EVER told them that he SAW or EYEWITNESSED any sexual assault crime, LET ALONE ANAL-RAPE, is not only a complete fabrication and fraudulent lie on the part of the State, but utter garbage!

 

[getmyjive11]

The same would then be true for Paterno. By the exact same reasoning.

That said, the state had to really twist the law (not to mention the Constitution) to get a minor conviction on CSS.

Note that I have no problem in saying CSS screwed up. I just don't think it should have been a criminal case for a number of reasons.

I never said that Paterno should be charged with a crime. He just was part of the failure.

 

[Osprey Lion]

That is exactly how it is.

• The A9 were fighting for both access and openness. They were offered access, and caved on openness. This, of course, satisfied their own curiosity but is a FAIL on openness.
• The Paterno's got depositions from a slew of parties. They could have pressed the point in a trial. But, their own curiosity satisfied, they caved. FAIL on openness.

As a matter of actual fact, these two groups, Paternos, and A9, by dropping their cases like they did, have done more to slam the door on the truth than TSM's shredders ever did. They were the two last hopes for truth and neither group gave two whits in the end.

The dropping of the lawsuit and silence by the review panel speaks volumes about what
they found.

 

[Royal_Coaster]

I understand, but you can't justify having a large alumni block in the BOT with such little participation in the elections. The PSU mission statement refers to the support of the citizens of the Commonwealth. As long as it is a public university, the vast majority of the trustees should be determined by the people of the Commonwealth, either through election or appointment by elected officials.

You mean like the farming community that makes up 1/6 of the state's population and 1/6 of the state's economy?

 

[getmyjive11]

You mean like the farming community that makes up 1/6 of the state's population and 1/6 of the state's economy?

I'm pretty sure the citizens of the Commonwealth make up 100% of the state's population and a majority of the state's economy.

 

[getmyjive11]

The dropping of the lawsuit and silence by the review panel speaks volumes about what
they found.

I always wondered, what is the consequences for one of the A9 to leak the info? Or at least bits and pieces of the info?

 

[Royal_Coaster]

PSU is definitely a public university as it receives hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

With that being said, my solution did take care of the B&I and Ag seat issues as their seats would be reduced and then moved to being either appointed by the governor or by the people of PA.

Just to be clear, I am fine with keeping alumni representation on the board, but it should be there as a voice and should not be a major percentage of the seats like it currently is. Same for Ag and B&I. There should also be a student trustee representation as well.

Yeah, what the BOT needs is more Damblys and other guys getting rewarded for donating to the governor's campaign. Thanks for supporting me, now go up to Penn State 6 times a year and vote your company a few million bucks for some no-bid contracts. All on me. Because our governors for the past century have been beacons of ethics and integrity. No favors done here. With any luck, the gov might appoint a few Notre Dame and Pitt fans who care absolutely nothing about PSU.

 

[Royal_Coaster]

I'm pretty sure the citizens of the Commonwealth make up 100% of the state's population and a majority of the state's economy.

If you're assuming the people who send their kids to Kutztown, Wilkes, Gannon, Immaculata, Lock Haven, etc. give a shit about how Penn State is governed. Either the vote count will be ridiculously low, or they'd vote for a candidate who ran on a platform that Penn State should get no state money.

Should parents of out-of-state students get representation? How about the states where out-of-state students live? You never answered my original question-- should AG trustees be 1/6 of the BOT?

 

[getmyjive11]

Yeah, what the BOT needs is more Damblys and other guys getting rewarded for donating to the governor's campaign. Thanks for supporting me, now go up to Penn State 6 times a year and vote your company a few million bucks for some no-bid contracts. All on me. Because our governors for the past century have been beacons of ethics and integrity. No favors done here. With any luck, the gov might appoint a few Notre Dame and Pitt fans who care absolutely nothing about PSU.

Then please enlighten me on how you would like for trustees to be determined and what the board makeup would be.

 

[getmyjive11]

If you're assuming the people who send their kids to Kutztown, Wilkes, Gannon, Immaculata, Lock Haven, etc. give a shit about how Penn State is governed. Either the vote count will be ridiculously low, or they'd vote for a candidate who ran on a platform that Penn State should get no state money.

Should parents of out-of-state students get representation? How about the states where out-of-state students live? You never answered my original question-- should AG trustees be 1/6 of the BOT?

That happens at no other state universities, why do you think it would happen at PSU?

And no, I have clearly stated that Ag should have representation but it should be limited to a single seat. Same as B&I, alumni and student representation.

 

[Obliviax]

MM wouldn't get charge then or today because he reported the incident to his superiors. JR should have been indicted. Dranov probably should have been indicted as well. None of that excuses the COA from CSS.

well, didn't C & S report it to their superiors?

 

[getmyjive11]

well, didn't C & S report it to their superiors?

C&S were part of the final decision makers.

 

[Obliviax]

C&S were part of the final decision makers.

So why wasn't Gricar indicted in 1998? At some point, someone has to make a value decision on the merits of the case in front of them.

MM, Dranov, MM's Dad, MM's mom, MM's GF, Paterno, Shultz, Curley, Spanier (and more) all dropped the ball in 2001. Gricar and his cast of a dozen all dropped the ball in 1998. The only ones prosecuted were Schultz, Curley and Spanier (and all charges were dropped except one misdemeaner in the cases of C S and S).

 

[getmyjive11]

So why wasn't Gricar indicted in 1998? At some point, someone has to make a value decision on the merits of the case in front of them.

MM, Dranov, MM's Dad, MM's mom, MM's GF, Paterno, Shultz, Curley, Spanier (and more) all dropped the ball in 2001. Gricar and his cast of a dozen all dropped the ball in 1998. The only ones prosecuted were Schultz, Curley and Spanier (and all charges were dropped except one misdemeaner in the cases of C S and S).

Gricar did not feel there was enough evidence to indict and the victim was not will to claim abuse at that time. 2001 is different because of MM. Regardless, I have never seen a DA indicted for making the wrong call without malice.

 

[Art]

C&S were part of the final decision makers.

The final decision was Spanier's.

 

[SmithtonLion]

Gricar did not feel there was enough evidence to indict and the victim was not will to claim abuse at that time. 2001 is different because of MM. Regardless, I have never seen a DA indicted for making the wrong call without malice.

Since we are in the land of "could have done more", the only question I have for you is: Why didn't Gricar go and advise C/S/S and Paterno that they believed JS was a pedophile and that they should be on the lookout and "DO NOT HANDLE IT YOURSELVES. CALL THE POLICE AT THE FIRST SUSPICION."

 

[getmyjive11]

The final decision was Spanier's.

With recommendations from Curley and Schultz. In fact, they did all the leg work. He rubber stamped it.

 

[getmyjive11]

Since we are in the land of "could have done more", the only question I have for you is: Why didn't Gricar go and advise C/S/S and Paterno that they believed JS was a pedophile and that they should be on the lookout and "DO NOT HANDLE IT YOURSELVES. CALL THE POLICE AT THE FIRST SUSPICION."

Maybe he did? All we know is that CSS and Paterno were aware of 98 per testimony.

 

[SmithtonLion]

Maybe he did? All we know is that CSS and Paterno were aware of 98 per testimony.

No, he did not, and you know he did not. Otherwise, that would have come out also.

I also think you mean investigation. And yes, they were aware of it.

Because they knew the situations were similar....and Sandusky was cleared, they probably talked themselves into "Hey, its the same thing with Jerry again....better talk to him"

 

[Pennsy_Kraken]

With recommendations from Curley and Schultz. In fact, they did all the leg work. He rubber stamped it.

Yes, exactly they reported the matter to DPW's Child Abuse Hotline according to the prescriptions of PA's CPSL Code despite having NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to do so. According to you this is a crime - making a Report under PA CPSL, but Mandatory Reporter Raykovitz under multiple elements of the code, including being a direct Agent of DPW, doing nothing is not a crime....LMFAO at your "twister" spin-it-anyway-I-like in favor of the corrupt Cracker-Jack logic....

 

[getmyjive11]

No, he did not, and you know he did not. Otherwise, that would have come out also.

Yes, it was confirmed.

 

[SmithtonLion]

Yes, it was confirmed.

It most definitely was not confirmed. No police or other legal entity talked with C/S/S and advised them that they "knew" Sandusky was a pedophile and only needed the proper evidence to put him away.

 

[getmyjive11]

It most definitely was not confirmed. No police or other legal entity talked with C/S/S and advised them that they "knew" Sandusky was a pedophile and only needed the proper evidence to put him away.

Curley confirmed that the email in the Freeh report that has "coach" was referencing Paterno.

 

[SmithtonLion]

Curley confirmed that the email in the Freeh report that has "coach" was referencing Paterno.

We are not talking about whether coach was Paterno. Coach was, apparently, Paterno.

We are talking about whether or not Gricar or any other legal entity in 1998 advised, "We know JS is a pedophile. We just can't prove it. So, please be on the alert for any suspicious activity, and if you see ANYTHING, let us know. Call us, don't handle it yourselves."

You know that's the topic.

No more deflecting.

 

[Art]

With recommendations from Curley and Schultz. In fact, they did all the leg work. He rubber stamped it.

When a CEO sigsn off on a decision, he owns it. Can't say whether Spanier deserves jail time, but he sure as hell deserved to be fired, not only for they way he mishandled the decision to report, but also in not preparing PSU for what followed in the aftermath of the Sandusky verdict.

 

[TenerHallTerror]

When a CEO sigsn off on a decision, he owns it. Can't say whether Spanier deserves jail time, but he sure as hell deserved to be fired, not only for they way he mishandled the decision to report, but also in not preparing PSU for what followed in the aftermath of the Sandusky verdict.

yeah because Erickson steered the ship so well after that, LOL

 

[Art]

yeah because Erickson steered the ship so well after that, LOL

Think of it this way: Spanier entrusted the information gathering on whether to report to a bean-counter and a guy respnosible for laundering jock-straps. That there tells you all you need to know about Rodless (and, unfortunately, the rest of Spankie's minions).

 

[Legion of Lions]

MM wouldn't get charge then or today because he reported the incident to his superiors. JR should have been indicted. Dranov probably should have been indicted as well. None of that excuses the COA from CSS.

BUT HE LIED UNDER OATH....at least that is what the OAG Grand Jury Presentment states. Why is that "version" of his "Shower incident" a lie....because NO OTHER PERSON in 2001 acted like a crime was committed....no other person testified that a crime was committed....no reasonable person would EXPECT to report (via a law that did not exist until 6 years into the future) what MM stated in 2001 to ANY authority. IT WAS A NON-EVENT - you don't need to COA for a non-event!! That is why the statement that C/S/S "mishandled" all of this is so absurd --- "mishandling" (whatever negative term you are trying to pin on PSU officials) is TOTALLY based on a 2011 concocted OAG fiction involving MM's 2001 sighting. .This alone is a crime committed by the OAG for the purpose of POLITICAL COVER-UP. It is the State of PA that has a "Culture Problem" - not anyone charged (or implied like Paterno) at Penn State - the University!

MATHEMATICAL PROOF that this is the case.....NO TSM INVOLVEMENT AT ALL. (See what $650K to Corbett gets you....Political Protection!!! Nothing wrong here...right??)

Now if you had TSM officials being charged and you had the destroyed records back from TSM you might start to have a case against PSU mishandling 2001..

 

[getmyjive11]

We are not talking about whether coach was Paterno. Coach was, apparently, Paterno.

We are talking about whether or not Gricar or any other legal entity in 1998 advised, "We know JS is a pedophile. We just can't prove it. So, please be on the alert for any suspicious activity, and if you see ANYTHING, let us know. Call us, don't handle it yourselves."

You know that's the topic.

No more deflecting.

Ray would not have needed to tell them anything other than that JS was being investigated for showering with a kid. That should be enough.

 

[getmyjive11]

When a CEO sigsn off on a decision, he owns it. Can't say whether Spanier deserves jail time, but he sure as hell deserved to be fired, not only for they way he mishandled the decision to report, but also in not preparing PSU for what followed in the aftermath of the Sandusky verdict.

No argument there.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

"SWIGJ of my beer"... okay, that is pretty funny! That poster fights the good fight, though, even if his posting style is unorthodox.

I think of Mr. pnnylion as the lovable mascot of this message board. Sure his antics get vulgar sometimes, but that is all excusable for his irreplaceable personality, especially since he is clearly on the side of truth, as well.

Nah. He's the crazy drunk uncle who ignores facts and just yells loud while the family shakes their head.

 

[Pennsy_Kraken]

It most definitely was not confirmed. No police or other legal entity talked with C/S/S and advised them that they "knew" Sandusky was a pedophile and only needed the proper evidence to put him away.

This is especially true when you understand that PSU's General Counsel at the time, Wendell Courtney - who says he was told about the 2001 incident, also did pro-bono work for The Second Mile where his wife, Linette Courtney, was a Board Member in 2001 (and throughout the early-to-mid 2000s)....and the Courtney's are good friends with the CEO & his wife, the President of TSM! After doing pro-bono work for TSM for years, Wendell Courtney becomes the full-time General Counsel of TSM in 2007! So this bull$hit that Courtney was running around telling everybody, and anybody, that would listen that Sandusky should be reported to DPW, which TSM had an absolute LEGAL OBLIGATION to do under MULTIPLE SECTIONS OF PA CPSL (you know the organization where his wife is on The TSM Board of Directors) is beyond absurd (and ironic). So Courtney was runnig around telling anyone that would listen that Sandusky needed "report'in" to DPW, but for some strange reason TSM didn't report Sandusky regarding 2001 despite being the only party with a CLEAR LEGAL OBLIGATION to do so! -- gee, I guess Wendell Courtney wasn't running around telling everyone, including his wife, that Sandusky needed to be reported to DPW regarding the 2001 incident.