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FC: ESPN takes on Penn State once again

I actually agree that the way the process isn't written you SHOULDN'T be able to have sanctions without infractions.
Well we are making progress. In fact, you can't have sanctions without infractions.
But it is clear the NCAA didn't follow its own procedures
Read their bylaws again about the Executive Committee
when it overstepped its authority and punished PSU.
Opinion
This is clear from two things:
1) PSU having "its own special sanction page" to try to explain how in the world the NCAA justifies such ridiculous sanctions.
Because of infractions
2) That PSU is NOT in the major infractions database.
But has infractions nonetheless. You're too hung up on the database.
 
I probably agree that one should not be able to sanction without infractions.
Hey you're learning. In fact you CAN"T have sanctions without infractions
But Wackhole dismisses any data/information that isn't written down and codified as law.
No, that's you. You're being pedantic and that is your mental stumbling block.
He states the assertion as fact. It's his opinion so far as I can tell.
No it's fact. See above.
 
Hey you're learning. In fact you CAN"T have sanctions without infractions

No, that's you. You're being pedantic and that is your mental stumbling block.

No it's fact. See above.
So, you can’t point to where it is stated. Just as I thought. Another major blunder on your resume. Well done
 
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It's written in the book of common sense and logic. You might want to read that.
I've read the book of common sense and logic. I understand it quite well.

By the way, You know what is written there?
  • You cannot have a cover up of a situation when all the parties involved openly discuss the situation amongst themselves and outside their circle.
  • You cannot have a cover up when you do not force or otherwise tell the only ear-witness of an event that he should remain quiet.
  • You cannot have a cover-up when the rules of cover-up are never followed.
  • You cannot have a cover-up when one of the alleged cover-uppers directly asks the ear-witness if they are accepting and okay with how all matters were handled - and the ear-witness says yes!
  • You cannot have a cover-up to a situation when the only individual on the face of the planet tells five different people on three separate occasions what he heard and none of the five people attempt to silence the others
Maybe you ought to read Chapter 409 and learn some common sense and logic becasue it completely escapes you.
 
Emmert mentioned the infractions. Freeh proved them, PSU accepted that and the NCAA sanctioned PSU. This as even you would say is fact. That you don't like it is opinion.
For sure.

Taken together, those records tell a clear story -- the case against Sandusky is fatally flawed from top to bottom. A decade later, records show, the actions of many of the principal actors in this case, including prosecutors, judges, and FBI Director Louis Freeh, who led the civil investigation at Penn State, are irredeemably tainted by misconduct, incompetence, unethical behavior, conflict of interest, collusion and/or corruption.


In addition, psychologists in the case used scientifically discredited recovered memory therapy to elicit suspect testimony from many of the alleged victims, whose improbable and constantly evolving stories to this day have never been vetted by anyone. Finally, the defendants' own medical records cast doubt on whether Sandusky was physically capable of performing the acts he was accused of.

Based on the evidence that I will present here, there's no longer any reason for any sane person to believe in the findings of both the civil and the criminal investigations conducted at Penn State. A decade later, the prevailing story line in the Penn State sex scandal about the man who's supposed to be the most notorious pedophile in America amounts to an X-rated fractured fairy tale that, when viewed from multiple angles, makes no freaking sense.
There's a looming shadow that's cast over the entire Penn State scandal, and that's the egregious conduct of an overzealous prosecutor on a rampage, former Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina, who was the lead prosecutor at Penn State.

Amelia Kittredge, the counsel for the state Supreme Court's disciplinary board who ran the investigation that resulted in Fina losing his license to practice law, memorably described Fina to the state's highest court as "someone who cannot or will not separate right from wrong."
A decade later, Fina's fingerprints are all over this travesty of a case, particularly when it comes to illegal grand jury leaks. But when we're talking about bad actors in the Sandusky case, Fina's got plenty of company.
The tragedy of all this is if the state gets its wish, Sandusky, who at 77, still professes his innocence, may die in prison before the truth about the scandal behind the scandal at Penn State is finally known.


Much of the material published below will be familiar to Big Trial readers, as it has been presented piecemeal over the past five years in some 60 blog posts published on this website.
The stories were written by myself as well as author Mark Pendergrast, who excerpted on bigtrial.net several chapters from his 2017 book, The Most Hated Man In America; Jerry Sandusky and the Rush to Judgment.
It was ten years ago this month, on Nov. 4, 2011, that the premature leak of the pending grand jury indictment of Sandusky to reporter Sara Ganim set off the media firestorm that would railroad Sandusky into spending what amounts to a life sentence in jail.
Just five days after that leak, without doing any fact-finding, Penn State's panicked board of trustees hastily fired Joe Paterno, the winningest football coach in America, as well as longtime Penn State President Graham Spanier.
With the tenth anniversary of the Penn State case upon us, rather than examine its own malpractice and negligence, the news media has chosen to regurgitate a completely discredited story line that's built around a big lie.
To counter the prevailing narrative, I've decided to publish in one spot large chunks of the evidence that clearly shows Sandusky was railroaded.
As outlined below, the level of official misconduct in this case is so extreme that it rises to the level of egregious. That's the term the state Supreme Court used in 1992 when it freed former Lower Merion High School Principal Jay Smith from prison, where he had been on death row for six years, after his conviction for the murders of English teacher Susan Reinert and her two children, whose bodies were never discovered.
In the Jay Smith case, the state Supreme Court found that prosecutors in the state attorney general's office committed egregious misconduct when they hid exculpatory evidence that would have benefitted the defendant. The hidden evidence included two grains of sand found between the toes on Reinert's body that indicated she may have died at the Jersey Shore, as opposed to the the prosecution's theory of the case, which was that Smith had killed Reinert in his basement.
In freeing Smith, the state Supreme Court barred a retrial on the grounds that it would amount to unconstitutional double jeopardy.
In the Sandusky case, the state attorney general's office outdid its previous standards for corruption by knowingly writing a false and inflammatory grand jury presentment, deliberately leaking that false presentment to the media, and then basically manufacturing the trial testimony that was used to convict Sandusky. To finish the job, the judges in this case trampled on Sandusky's constitutional rights at every turn, while turning a blind eye to overwhelming evidence of official misconduct.
Stated simply, the Sandusky case is a cluster f--k from start to finish that can't be undone.
The Rape In The Showers
Let's start at the beginning, with the headline charge in the grand jury presentment that has permanently convicted Sandusky in the minds of an entire nation, as well as the jury pool in Centre County. The headline charge that was also responsible for the firing of Paterno and Spanier.
“Remember that little boy in the shower,” then-Gov. Tom Corbett told the university’s board of trustees on Nov. 9, 2011, just before they decided, in a mad rush to judgment, to fire Paterno and Spanier without even taking a formal vote.
According to that grand jury presentment, a decade earlier, at 9:30 p.m. on March 1, 2002, a then-28-year-old Penn State graduate assistant walked into the locker room at the Lasch Football Building on the University Park Campus.
[The prosecutors subsequently claimed they had gotten the date of the shower story wrong, and moved the date of that alleged incident back 13 months to Feb. 9, 2001.]
The graduate assistant, subsequently identified as assistant Penn State football coach Mike McQueary, heard "rhythmic slapping sounds" emanating from the showers, sounds that he "believed" to be evidence of "sexual activity."
According to the grand jury presentment, McQueary looked into the showers and saw "a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky."
According to the grand jury presentment, the "distraught" graduate assistant called his father for advice, and then he left he Lasch Building and went straight home.
"The next morning," according to the grand jury presentment, McQueary "went to [Coach Joe] Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen."
The rape in the showers, as well as the implication that McQueary promptly told Paterno about "what he had seen" -- as in that rape in the showers -- are both works of fiction written by overzealous prosecutors in the state attorney general's office.
How do we know this? From the words of the sole witness himself, in emails first disclosed by blogger Ray Blehar.
On Nov. 10, 2011, six days after the grand jury presentment was leaked, McQueary emailed deputy Attorney General Jonelle Eshbach to tell her that the grand jury report the AG had just published was factually incorrect.
"I feel my words are slightly twisted and not totally portrayed correctly in the presentment," McQueary wrote. "I cannot say 1000 percent sure that it was sodomy. I did not see insertion. It was a sexual act and or way over the line in my opinion whatever it was."
In a second email that day to Eshbach, McQueary complained about "being misrepresented" in the media. To which Eshbach replied, "I know that a lot of this stuff is incorrect and it is hard not to respond. But you can't."
During a defamation suit that McQueary subsequently filed against Penn State, Eshbach was sworn in as a witness and asked to explain what she meant by telling McQueary not to talk.

"My advice to Mr. McQueary not to make a statement was based on the strengthening of my -- and saving of my case," Eshbach testified. "I did not want him [McQueary] making statements to the press at that time that could at some time be used against him in cross-examination. He [McQueary] was perfectly free to make a statement, but I asked him not to."
Less than a month after the grand jury presentment, Paterno issued a statement disclosing that when he went before the grand jury, he testified, "It was obvious that the witness [McQueary] was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report."
To further confirm this, on Dec. 16, 2011, McQueary testified under cross-examination that "I have never used the word anal or rape in this -- since day one."
Besides Paterno, McQueary told his story about "whatever it was" that he had allegedly witnessed within hours of the alleged incident in the Penn State showers to his father, John McQueary, and his father's friend, Dr. Jonathan Dranov, who, as a doctor, was a mandated reporter when it comes to allegations of sex abuse.
Approximately 10 days later, McQueary told Penn State Athletic Director Tim Curley and senior Vice President for finance and business Gary Schultz about what he had allegedly seen in the showers.
All five men -- Paterno, McQueary's father, Dr. Dranov, Curley and Schutz -- have testified under oath that Mike McQueary never told them that he witnessed anything sexual going on in the showers. Instead, Paterno, Curley and Schultz characterized what McQueary told them about as "horseplay."
On Nov. 23, 2010, recounting what was then a nearly decade-old incident in the showers, McQueary wrote out a statement to police that said whatever he witnessed took place during a brief time period that lasted between 30 and 45 seconds.
During that time, McQueary wrote to the cops, he glanced into a mirror once, which gave him a reflected view of the showers, and then he glanced directly into the showers.
McQueary told a grand jury in 2010 that the two “glances” he took each lasted “maybe one or two seconds.”
But the story McQueary told kept changing.
On Nov. 8, 2011, after the grand jury presentment became public, McQueary emailed a friend and claimed that instead of leaving the locker room and doing nothing to stop an alleged rape of a child in progress, "I did stop it, not physically, but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room."
In that email that was subsequently published in Thee Morning Call of Allentown, PA, on Nov. 15, 2011, McQueary also claimed that he told the police about the rape in the showers. But the next day, representatives from both the Penn State campus police and the State College police publicly stated that they had no record of McQueary ever reporting any sex crime to them.
In subsequent retellings of the shower story, McQueary claimed that when he left the locker room, he slammed his locker door, which he said, made Sandusky look up and stop the abuse. McQueary also claimed that as he was leaving the shower room, he took another glance in the showers a second time, to make sure that Sandusky and the boy remained apart.
At the Sandusky trial in 2012, McQueary testified that when he first glanced in the showers eleven years earlier, this time he said that glance lasted between one and five seconds, and that he saw Sandusky standing behind a boy whose hands were against the shower wall.
On the witness stand, McQueary claimed that he now recalled a "very slow, slow, subtle movement" of Sandusky's crotch against the boy's buttocks.
The identity of the victim, the boy in the showers, Deputy Attorney General Joe McGettigan told the jury at the Sandusky trial, was "known only to God." But jurors didn't buy that story, and despite convicting Sandusky on 45 other counts, they acquitted Sandusky on the charge of abusing the unknown boy in the showers.
[According to author Mark Pendergrast, McGettigan was lying when he said they didn't know the identity of the boy in the showers. He's a former Marine named Allan Myers, who was 14, and not 10 at the time of the alleged shower incident. Myers initially told the state police and a private investigator that Sandusky was a father figure and mentor who had never abused him, and that they were horsing around that day in the shower, snapping some towels, when McQueary walked in.
That was before Myers decided to drastically change his story and cash in, to the tune of a $6.9 million civil settlement. During Sandusky's bid for a new trial, Myers was sworn in as a witness in 2016 and asked which story he told was the truth. He responded by saying he couldn't remember 34 times.]
The Previously Undisclosed Federal Investigation At Penn State
The Penn State sex scandal was the subject of a criminal investigation by the state attorney general's office, and a supposedly independent civil investigation conducted at the cost of $8 million by former FBI Director Louis Freeh.
The investigation conducted by the state attorney general's office resulted in the indictment of Sandusky for the alleged rape of the boy in the showers, as well as for allegedly abusing seven other minors.
On June 22, 2012, a Centre County jury found Sandusky guilty of 45 out of 48 counts of sex abuse, and sentenced him to 30 to 60 years in jail.
The state attorney general's office also initially charged Spanier, Curley and Schultz with failing to report allegations of child abuse to authorities, along with allegedly committing perjury during grand jury testimony.
The Freeh Report concluded that there was an official cover up of Sandusky's sex crimes at Penn State. And that during that cover up, the Freeh Report claimed, Spanier, Curley and Schultz had displayed a "total and consistent disregard" for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's alleged victims, as well as a "striking lack of empathy."
In publishing their 267-page report, the authors of the Freeh Report claimed they operated "with total independence," and that "no party interfered with, or attempted to influence the findings in this report."
The media has dutifully reported on the two investigations done by the state attorney general's office, and former FBI Director Freeh, as well as their findings about a rape in the showers, followed by an official cover-up on the part of Penn State's top officials.
But there has been a total news blackout in the mainstream media on the third investigation done at Penn State. It was done by the federal government in 2012, which resulted in a 110-page report that initially was stamped confidential, but was finally declassified in 2017.
The federal investigation was conducted by former NCIS Special Agent and veteran cold case investigator John Snedden, then on assignment for the U.S. Federal Investigative Services.
Against the backdrop of the Penn State sex abuse scandal, Snedden's job was to determine whether former Penn State President Spanier deserved to have a high-level national security clearance renewed amid allegations that he had orchestrated an official cover-up of Jerry Sandusky's sex crimes.
With national security at stake, Snedden conducted a five-month investigation on the Penn State campus in 2012. And what did he find?
That the rape in the showers story told by McQueary made no sense, and that McQueary, who told so many different versions of that story -- according to author Mark Pendergrast, a total of five different accounts -- wasn't a credible witness.
Snedden also concluded that there was no cover up at Penn State, because there was no sex crime in the showers to cover up. It was the exact opposite of the conclusions reached by the state attorney general's office, and the Freeh Report.
As a result, the feds cleared Spanier, and renewed his high level security clearance.
Why didn't Snedden buy the rape in the showers story?
Back in 2001, Snedden told Big Trial, Mike McQueary was a 26-year-old, 6-foot-5, 240-pound former college quarterback used to running away from 350-pound defensive linemen. If McQueary actually saw Jerry Sandusky raping a young boy in the shower, Snedden said, he probably would have done something about it.

"I think your moral compass would cause you to act and not just flee," Snedden said.

If McQueary really thought he was witnessing a sexual assault on a child, Snedden said, wouldn't he have gotten between the victim and a "wet, defenseless naked 57-year-old guy in the shower?"

Or, if McQueary decided he wasn't going to physically intervene, Snedden said, instead of going home and doing nothing about a child rape in progress, why didn't he call the cops from the Lasch Building?
As Snedden says, the story makes no sense. It was also egregious prosecutorial misconduct for the state attorney general's office to fictionalize and sensationalize such a flimsy, decade-old story, and then hang an entire grand jury presentment on it.
While the Freeh Group investigation claimed to operate with "total independence," there's a confidential record that meticulously documents ample evidence of routine collusion between the criminal investigation of Penn State conducted by the state attorney general's office, and the supposedly independent investigation conducted by the Freeh Group.
And that evidence comes from a seemingly unimpeachable source, former FBI Special Agent Kathleen McChesney, who was credited with starting the investigation that led to the capture of serial killer Ted Bundy.
In "Conversations with a Killer: The Ted Bundy Tapes," McChesney revealed on camera how the federal investigation of the serial killer got started. A woman called and said, "I'm concerned about my boyfriend -- his name is Ted Bundy."
The girlfriend proceeded to detail Bundy's suspicious behavior that included following women around at night, hiding a knife in his car and keeping a bag of women's underwear in his apartment.


McChesney, who was on the task force that ultimately arrested Bundy, rose to become the only female FBI agent appointed to be the bureau's executive assistant director. Her credibility was such that in 2002, in the wake of the widespread sex abuse scandal involving the Catholic clergy, the U.S. Conference of Bishops hired McChesney to establish and lead its Office of Child and Youth Protection.
McChesney is also the author of a 2011 book, "Pick Up Your Own Brass: Leadership the FBI Way."
But in the Sandusky case, the decorated former FBI special agent is now known for another book she wrote -- an unpublished, confidential 79-page diary written in 2011 and 2012, back when McChesney was a private investigator working for her old boss, former FBI Director Freeh, while investigating Penn State.
In her diary, McChesney records multiple contemporaneous instances of then Deputy Attorney General Frank Fina, the lead prosecutor in the Penn State case, leaking grand jury secrets to the Freeh Group.
It's clear from the McChesney diary that multiple grand jury documents were also regularly leaked to the Freeh Group, as was a 1998 police report on an earlier alleged shower incident that was investigated and found to be unfounded, resulting in a report that was supposed to have been expunged in 1999.
While the Freeh Group claimed in their report that they operated with "total independence" and "no party interfered with, or attempted to influence the findings in this report," the McChesney diary tells a different story.
Namely, that in conducting their supposedly independent investigation, the Freeh Group was regularly colluding with and working seemingly under the direction of the state attorney general's office, and particularly under the direction of deputy Attorney General Frank Fina.
According to McChesney, members of the Freeh Group "don't want to interfere with their investigations," and that she and her colleagues were being "extremely cautious & running certain interviews by them."
McChesney wrote that the Freeh Group even "asked Fina to authorize some interviews." And that the A.G.'s office "asked us to stay away from some people, ex janitors, but can interview" people from the Second Mile, Sandusky's charity for disadvantaged youths.
According to McChesney, Fina was actively involved in directing the Freeh Group's investigation, to the point of saying if and when they could interview certain witnesses.
For example, McChesney recorded that the Freeh Group was going to notify Fina that they wanted to interview Ronald Schreffler, an investigator for Penn State Police who probed the earlier 1998 shower incident involving Sandusky and another boy that turned out to be unfounded; he also wrote the police report that was supposed to be expunged.
After he was notified, McChesney wrote, "Fina approved interview with Schreffler."
According to the McChesney diary, Fina also routinely kept the Freeh Group up to date on what was going on with the grand jury investigation, telling Freeh's investigators secrets that the defendants and their lawyers weren't privy to.
For example, the night before former Penn State President Spanier, Curley and Schultz were going to be arrested, Gregory Paw, another Freeh investigator, sent an email to his colleagues at the Freeh Group, advising them of the imminent arrest.

The subject of Paw's email: "CLOSE HOLD -- Important."
"PLEASE HOLD VERY CLOSE," Paw wrote his colleagues at the Freeh Group. "[Deputy Attorney General Frank] Fina called tonight to tell me that Spanier is to be arrested tomorrow, and Curley and Schultz re-arrested, on charges of obstruction of justice and related charges . . . Spanier does not know this information yet, and his lawyers will be advised about an hour before the charges are announced tomorrow."
When I asked Freeh, through a spokesperson, whether he as a private citizen during the Penn State investigation, was authorized to have access to grand jury secrets, Freeh declined comment.
Other emails contained in documents under seal show that while investigating Penn State, Freeh may have had a conflict of interest. According to the emails, Freeh, whose investigators had telephone conferences with every Friday with NCAA officials, saw the Penn State investigation as a way to land the NCAA as a permanent client.

On July 7, 2012, a week before the release of the Freeh Report on Penn State, Omar McNeill, a senior investigator for Freeh, wrote to Freeh. "This has opened up an opportunity to have the dialogue with [NCAA President Mark] Emmert about possibly being the go to internal investigator for the NCAA. It appears we have Emmert's attention now."

In response, Freeh wrote back, "Let's try to meet with him and make a deal -- a very good cost contract to be the NCAA's 'go to investigators' -- we can even craft a big discounted rate given the unique importance of such a client. Most likely he will agree to a meeting -- if he does not ask for one first."
It took seven years but Freeh's efforts finally paid off. In August, 2019, the NCAA hired five employees of the Freeh Group to staff its new Complex Case Unit.
The McChesney diary was the basis for a motion for a new trial filed with the state Superior Court in 2020 by Sandusky's appeal lawyers. In their motion for a new trial, Sandusky's lawyers requested an evidentiary hearing where McChesney would have been summoned to testify under subpoena and asked to authenticate the diary.
But a year later, on May 13, 2021, the state Superior Court denied that motion, ruling that Sandusky's lawyers did not file their appeal in a timely fashion.
Instead, the state Superior Court blasted Sandusky's appeal lawyers, saying that they "dithered for one-half a year" before bringing the newly discovered evidence to the court's attention.
The Freeh Group's investigation at Penn State involved interviewing hundreds of people, including a Penn State faculty member before she was chosen as a juror in the Sandusky case.
And when it came time for defense lawyers to question the juror, she misrepresented what she had told the Freeh Group.


The juror was identified by Freeh's investigators as Laura Pauley, a professor of mechanical engineering at Penn State, who did not respond to a request for comment. During jury selection on June 6, 2012, Pauley was asked by Joseph Amendola, Sandusky's trial lawyer, what she told Freeh's investigators.

"It was focused more on how the board of trustees interacts with the president," Pauley told Amendola, as well as "how faculty are interacting with the president and the board of trustees . . ."
But an April 19, 2011 confidential summary of that interview shows that the juror had already made up her mind about the guilt of Sandusky, by reading her local newspaper. According to the report of the interview, Pauley had also already decided that Penn State's top administrators were guilty of a cover up.
In her interview with Freeh's investigators, Pauley stated that she was "an avid reader of the Centre Daily Times" and that she believed that the leadership at Penn State just "kicks the issue down the road."

"The PSU culture can best be described as people who do not want to resolve issues and want to avoid confrontation," she told Freeh's investigators.

Pauley, a tenured professor who served on the Faculty Advisory Committee for three years, told Freeh's investigators that Penn State President Graham Spanier was "very controlling," and that "she feels that [former Penn State Athletic Director Tim] Curley and [former Penn State vice president Gary] Schultz are responsible for the scandal."

"She stated that she senses Curley and Schultz treated it [the scandal] the 'Penn State' way and were just moving on and hoping it would fade away."
While Pauley was being questioned by Amendola, Sandusky's appeal lawyers wrote, "at no time during this colloquy, or any other time, did the prosecution disclose that it was working in collaboration with the Freeh Group which interviewed the witness."
Had Amendola known what Pauley told Freeh's investigators, he would have sought to have her stricken from the jury. He would have also asked the judge to find out whether any other jurors had met with Freeh's investigators.

At Sandusky's trial, while Amendola was questioning Pauley about what she told Freeh's investigators, Deputy Attorney Frank Fina sat silently at the prosecution table and said nothing.
Since the McChesney's diary documents how the Freeh Group routinely kept the attorney general's office abreast of the Freeh investigation, it's possible that Fina knew all about the Freeh Group's interview with Pauley.
It's also possible that Fina may have even been given his own copy of that interview with the juror.

On Feb. 19, 2020, the state Supreme Court of Pennsylvania voted to suspend for a year and a day the law license of former deputy attorney general Frank Fina, the lead prosecutor in the Penn State case, for his "reprehensible" and "inexcusable" misconduct during the grand jury investigation of three Penn State officials that he accused of orchestrating a cover up.
Fina, the disciplinary board found, was guilty of purposely "misleading" a grand jury judge into thinking that Fina wasn't going to press Cynthia Baldwin, Penn State's former counsel, into breaking the attorney-client privilege behind closed doors and betraying three top Penn State officials who were her former clients -- Spanier, Curley and Schultz.
Fina got Baldwin to cooperate by threatening her with an indictment for obstruction of justice. So Baldwin went into the grand jury and testified against her clients, without even notifying them of her betrayal.

After deliberately misleading the judge back in October 2012, Fina then "proceeded to question [Baldwin] extensively about the very subjects he represented to Judge [Barry] Feudale he would avoid," the disciplinary board concluded.
"These actions are reprehensible" and "inexcusable," the disciplinary board wrote.
Even worse, the disciplinary board found that Fina's alleged defense of his behavior before the board was "without substance." What Fina did, the disciplinary board said, was to tear down all the safeguards built into the criminal justice system by turning defense attorney Baldwin "into a witness for the prosecution against her clients."
"Unlike other lawyers, the prosecutor is more than a zealous advocate for a client," the state Supreme Court wrote. "The prosecutor bears as well the high and non-delegable duty of ensuring a fair process for the defendant and of comporting himself or herself always in a manner consistent with a position of public trust."
"To state it plain, instead of Baldwin serving as a shield for her former clients, her testimony was elicited and used by Fina as a sword against them, to devastating effect," the court wrote. In addition, when he was brought up on charges of misconduct, the disciplinary board concluded, Fina "failed to acknowledge he had a special responsibility to ensure justice and utterly failed to acknowledge the ramifications of his conduct."

The board found that "deflecting responsibility and displaying a lack of sincere remorse constitute aggravating factors."
Clearly, Fina was a man who would stop at nothing to accomplish his goals. Even if it meant breaking the law.
There was more fall-out from Fina's actions.
In 2013, then state Attorney General Katharine Kane ousted Judge Feudale from his duties as supervising grand jury judge in Harrisburg, citing his close relationship with Fina and lack of objectivity.
On Feb. 21, 2020, the state Supreme Court publicly censured Baldwin, a former state Supreme Court justice herself, for her "unfathomable" and "incompetent" actions in betraying her own clients.
In censuring Baldwin, the court noted her "lack of remorse for her actions," saying she "cast blame for her problems on everyone involved," but never herself.
The Corruption Of the Trial Judge In The Sandusky Case
The trial of Sandusky was presided over by the Honorable John Cleland, who oversaw a rush to judgment that resulted in Sandusky going from indictment to conviction at trial in just seven months.
How did the judge pull that off? By trampling on Sandusky's constitutional rights.

Before the trial started, Sandusky's defense lawyers tried to get the trial postponed so they could wade through 12,000 pages of grand jury transcripts he had just received only 10 days before the start of trial.

Amendola, Sanduksy's trial lawyer, begged for a continuance, telling the judge that he needed time to read the files and find out what Sandusky's accusers were saying about him; he also needed time to subpoena witnesses.

"We can't prepare . . . I felt like Custer at Little Bighorn for God's sake," Amendola testified during an appeals hearing. But Judge Cleland turned him down.
[Besides being unprepared, Joe Amendola, Sandusky's trial lawyer, was painfully inept, as detailed on this blog by author Mark Pendergrast.]

Jerry Sandusky had a constitutional right to a fair trial. But in order to save Penn State football, which was being threatened with the death penalty by the NCAA, Sandusky had to be convicted and sitting in jail before the start of the 2012 college football season to wrap up the Penn State scandal in a nice, neat bow.
Putting Sandusky in jail for life fit right into the deal that PSU had struck with the NCAA, which was to voluntarily admit guilt and take their lumps, which included a $60 million fine. But the payoff for Penn State was that the Nittany Lions would escape the death penalty that the NCAA had threatened to impose on the football program in Happy Valley.

Jerry Sandusky also had a constitutional right to confront his accusers, but Judge Cleland took care of that as well.

The night before the preliminary hearing in the case, the only pretrial opportunity where Sandusky's lawyers would have had the right to confront his accusers -- the eight young men who claimed that Sandusky had abused them -- Judge Cleland convened an unusual off-the-record meeting of prosecutors, a magistrate, and defense lawyers at the Hilton Garden Inn at State College.
At the meeting, with prosecutors nodding in agreement, the judge talked Amendola into waiving the preliminary hearing so that Sandusky could remain out on bail for his trial. On their end of the deal, the state attorney general's office, which had previously requested bail of $1 million for Sandusky, agreed to lower that amount to $250,000.
The A.G. had also had threatened to file more charges against Sandusky, but according to the deal worked out by the judge during the off-the-record session at the Hilton Garden Inn, no more charges would be forthcoming.

So Amendola caved and took the deal. The grand result of Sandusky's lawyers waiving the preliminary hearing was that the Pennsylvania railroad that Sandusky was riding on would stay on schedule.
During the appeal process, after Judge Cleland's actions were disclosed regarding the Hilton Garden Inn conference, the judge had to turn over notes that he had taken during the off-the-record session. Cleland then voluntarily recused himself from continuing to preside over the appeals in the Sandusky case.
While the Sandusky case was headed to trial at breakneck speed, some people in the know were aware that the Honorable Judge Cleland wasn't going to budge on the scheduled trial date.
In the McChesney diary, on May 10, 2012, the former FBI agent noted in a conference call with Gregory Paw and Omar McNeil, two of Freeh's investigators, that Paw is going to talk to Fina, and that the "judge [is] holding firm on date of trial."

In an affidavit, Amendola, Sandusky's trial lawyer, stated that McChesney didn't get that information from him.

"An obvious question arises as to whether or not the trial judge was communicating with a member of the Freeh Group, attorneys for the attorney general's office, or anyone else concerning the trial date," Sandusky's appeal lawyers wrote.

In their motion for a new trial, Sandusky's lawyers sought to question Judge Cleland at an evidentiary hearing "to determine whether, and to what extent, collusion between the office of the attorney general, the Freeh investigation and the NCAA had an impact on the trial."
But the court denied that appeal.


During the appeals of Sandusky's conviction, his lawyers accused deputy attorney generals Fina and Eshbach of breaking state law by repeatedly leaking grand jury secrets.
But on Oct. 18, 2017, Jefferson County Presiding Judge John Henry Foradora issued a 59-page opinion where he cleared Fina and Eshbach of leaking, while denying Sandusky a new trial sought under the Post Conviction Relief Act.
In his opinion, Judge Foradora concluded that Fina and Eshbach weren't the leakers who were feeding reporter Sara Ganim intel about the impending grand jury presentment.
Why? Because Fina said so.

The judge bought Fina's alibi that he and Eshbach had supposedly set an "internal trap" to find the real leakers. But apparently the two prosecutors were about as successful as O.J. Simpson was in his hunt for the real killers.
Fina had asked his old buddy, Judge Barry Feudale, the supervising judge of the grand jury, to investigate the leak, Judge Foradora wrote. So, Judge Foradora decided, after hearing testimony from Fina, that it couldn't be Fina or Eshbach who were doing the leaking at the A.G.'s office.
At the PCRA hearing, "the testimony, then did not support the idea that the prosecution leaked grand jury information for any reason, let alone for the purpose of generating more victims," the judge wrote.
"If anything it supports the opposite conclusion, because while someone might be skeptical about the validity of Eshbach and Fina's internal 'trap'" to catch the real leakers, the judge wrote. "It is a fact of human nature that one engaged in or aware of misconduct he does not wish to have exposed does not ask an outside source to investigate it."
Unless the judge in question is an old pal. As in wink, wink.
One of the allegations of a leak raised by Sandusky's lawyers involved an incident related by the prosecution's official whistle blower in the Sandusky case, Mike McQueary.
At the 2017 trial of former PSU President Graham Spanier, McQueary was asked by a prosecutor how he found out that Sandusky was going to be arrested.
During the bye week of the 2011 Penn State football season, McQueary said, "I was on my way to Boston for recruiting and I was going from the F terminal over to the B terminals over in Philadelphia Airport."
That's when "the AGs called," McQueary said, referring specifically to Eshbach. According to McQueary, Eshbach told him "We're going to arrest folks and we are going to leak it out."
But rather than believe McQueary, Judge Foradora decided to trust Fina and Eshbach.
In denying Sandusky a new trial, Judge Foradora foolishly staked his entire 59-page opinion on the credibility and integrity of Frank Fina, which is now in tatters.
On Feb. 5, 2019, the state Superior Court, in a 70-page written by another gullible judge, the Honorable Judge Carolyn Nichols compounded this lunacy by denying Sandusky's appeal of Judge Foradora's opinion not to grant a new trial.
Once again, Judge Nichols and another court bought Fina and Eschbach's explanation that they had set an "internal trap" to find the real leakers, and didn't do any leaking.


According to Mark Pendergrast, therapists in the Sandusky case used scientifically-discredited recovered memory therapy on six of Sandusky's eight accusers at trial, and on several other alleged victims who wound up getting civil settlements.
Pendergrast focused on the work of therapist Mike Gillum, who for three years, in weekly and sometimes daily skull sessions, basically brainwashed Aaron Fisher, Victim No. 1, into recalling memories of abuse, after he had originally denied he had been abused.
In a book Gillum co-wrote with Fisher, Silent No More, the therapist, who was convinced from the get-go that Sandusky was a serial abuser, stated that he sought to “peel back the layers of the onion” of Fisher's brain to recover memories of abuse that Gillum already knew were there.
During these weekly and sometimes daily sessions, Fisher didn't have to say anything. According to Silent No More, Gillum would guess what happened and Fisher only had to nod his head or say Yes.
“I was very blunt with him when I asked questions but gave him the ability to answer with a yes or a no, that relieved him of a lot of burden,” Gillum wrote. In the same book, Aaron Fisher recalled: “Mike just kept saying that Jerry was the exact profile of a predator. When it finally sank in, I felt angry.”
The grand result of Gillum's work --- Fisher cashed in for $7.5 million.

Another alleged victim who initially denied he had been abused, Dustin Struble, Victim No. 7, dramatically changed his story after he also underwent recovered memory therapy.
Like many of the other alleged victims in this case, Struble's story kept evolving. Struble told the grand jury that Sandusky had never touched his privates or touched him in the shower, which Struble said he and Sandusky shared with other coaches and players.
 
It's on my terms and they need to hear the truth. I also post because others might read this crap they peddle and without pushback believe it might have merit. It has no merit and I just point that out. Their flaming protests are funny though.
Go post your lies and BS on the On3 Board. See how many you get in before being permanently banned. You didn’t post on this board until after last November 1st. You lying coward. You’re just jealous of PSU2UNC. He has a medal and you have nothing.
 
I've read the book of common sense and logic. I understand it quite well.

By the way, You know what is written there?
  • You cannot have a cover up of a situation when all the parties involved openly discuss the situation amongst themselves and outside their circle.
Sure you can. There are no templates for coverups. You know who they didn't discuss it with? The Department of Public Welfare or the Police. Whom they should have.
  • You cannot have a cover up when you do not force or otherwise tell the only ear-witness of an event that he should remain quiet.
You can by unspoken influence and the knowledge that if he does go outside of them he will commit professional suicide.
  • You cannot have a cover-up when the rules of cover-up are never followed.
There are no rules and I've rebutted the ones you mentioned
  • You cannot have a cover-up when one of the alleged cover-uppers directly asks the ear-witness if they are accepting and okay with how all matters were handled - and the ear-witness says yes!
That is not what happened. Paterno did not ask MM that. He asked him if HE was okay and NOT if he was ok with how it was handled. Later Paterno told MM that "Old Main screwed up". You are mistaken.
  • You cannot have a cover-up to a situation when the only individual on the face of the planet tells five different people on three separate occasions what he heard and none of the five people attempt to silence the others
Here is a good explanation of it.


Maybe you ought to read Chapter 409 and learn some common sense and logic becasue it completely escapes you.
You need to leave that church you are in. The church of Joe. It's making you crazy.
 
Sure you can. There are no templates for coverups. You know who they didn't discuss it with? The Department of Public Welfare or the Police. Whom they should have.

You can by unspoken influence and the knowledge that if he does go outside of them he will commit professional suicide.

There are no rules and I've rebutted the ones you mentioned

That is not what happened. Paterno did not ask MM that. He asked him if HE was okay and NOT if he was ok with how it was handled. Later Paterno told MM that "Old Main screwed up". You are mistaken.

Here is a good explanation of it.



You need to leave that church you are in. The church of Joe. It's making you crazy.
Liar.
 
Go post your lies and BS on the On3 Board.
I've posted there
See how many you get in before being permanently banned. You didn’t post on this board until after last November 1st.
The board then was run by a JoeBot who didn't want to hear the truth.
You lying coward.
Right back at you JoeBot.
You’re just jealous of PSU2UNC. He has a medal and you have nothing.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 I have never been jealous of any such poseur. He has no such thing.
 
I've posted there

The board then was run by a JoeBot who didn't want to hear the truth.

Right back at you JoeBot.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 I have never been jealous of any such poseur. He has no such thing.
More lies. Wow, what a surprise.
 
I have but you won't read it.
You cannot because it isn't there. Try a screen grab and circle the words if you think it exists.


Pinchot - He does post on the other board as 'truthfinder'. He is far less aggressive, far more muted, far less attaching to other users, and only post on an occasional item because if he acted that way there as he does here he'd be sh!t-canned in a second.
 
You cannot because it isn't there. Try a screen grab and circle the words if you think it exists.


Pinchot - He does post on the other board as 'truthfinder'. He is far less aggressive, far more muted, far less attaching to other users, and only post on an occasional item because if he acted that way there as he does here he'd be sh!t-canned in a second.
That fits. Liar. Coward. Fraud. D-nozzle. And, has no medals.
 
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You cannot because it isn't there. Try a screen grab and circle the words if you think it exists.
It does.
Pinchot - He does post on the other board as 'truthfinder'. He is far less aggressive, far more muted
As are you
, far less attaching to other users, and only post on an occasional item because if he acted that way there as he does here he'd be sh!t-canned in a second.
I'm not dealing with the same fools. You never did answer my takedown of your hero Cipriano.
 
You deal in speculation and call it a hypothesis which is incorrect.
A speculation based in facts is exactly what a hypothesis is. Go back to school and take some STEM classes.
Opinion based on facts.
You can't have sanctions without infractions.
Again, please show me where in the database these infractions are listed. I've asked many times and you've never showed us. This is because they do not exist.
No they didn't and PSU has it's own special page for its misdeeds.
And on that page the NCAA doesn't use the word infractions. There's a very good reason for that.
 
Well we are making progress. In fact, you can't have sanctions without infractions.

Read their bylaws again about the Executive Committee

Opinion

Because of infractions

But has infractions nonetheless. You're too hung up on the database.
Again, please show me either where on the page you are in love with it mentions the word infractions OR where the infractions appear in the official NCAA database. Without one (or both) of these things, you have to admit you are wrong.
 
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Again, please show me either where on the page you are in love with it mentions the word infractions OR where the infractions appear in the official NCAA database. Without one (or both) of these things, you have to admit you are wrong.
You need to put the clown Jacobs on ignore.
 
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LOL Look in the mirror. Plus you don't know my affiliation with anything.
You've made it pretty clear what your affiliation ISN'T. If I'm wrong, prove it. Stand and deliver (whatever that means).
Met several and they ain't you but we know that part is made up.
LOL. You've met "several." Maybe expand your horizons a bit.
Prove it or STFU.
Proves you're a gamer (in blackface no less) 🤣
Definitely not a gamer. And the latter is a pretty strong accusation you are making with no proof. You better be able to back that up.
Already did.
Not in a memorable or clear fashion apparently. Really shouldn't be a big deal for you to reiterate; except that you know you are wrong and will never admit it so you will not give me the opportunity to prove you wrong.
Nope not till you stand and deliver.
Happy to. Let me know how.
LOL You remember and I make you so mad you can't see straight and HAVE to reply.
LOL. Not even close. Giving you intellectual beat downs amuses me. I wouldn't do it otherwise.
I'm having fun,
You should look into other hobbies. I hear old unathletic people like pickle ball these days.
You don't have a CV.
This statement makes me think you don't know a CV is. But I certainly do have one (just spruced it up recently to apply for an ST position).
Liars don't keep their word you know.
Don't have to worry about that then, since I am not a liar.
They were
Speculation. No facts back that up.
No, because your falsely calling them liars makes it difficult for future victims of big shots to be believed.
Them lying about it and getting caught makes it difficult for future victims to be believed.
Same like you not reporting your molestation.
You are oddly obsessed with me being assaulted. And you keep using the word "molestation" rather than assault. Why is that?
They were
Speculation not based in fact.
I cheer for Sandusky and CSS to go to jail
Weird thing to cheer for innocent men to go to jail. I suggest you subscribe to Netflix. Might give you something better to do with your time.
We know you are messed up.
Pot - Kettle.
Because that is what you narrative is. A conspiracy theory.
Again, your narrative requires the conspiracy. Mine does not.
Not relevant. You have no idea. "Jesus people" are not the only ones who believe in objective morality.
Then please tell us where you get this objective morality from. You obviously didn't come up with it yourself. Who told you how to think?
LOL coming from you illogical larry that is rich LOLOLOL
My logic is flawless. Your logic screams of someone who didn't take any STEM classes.
My "world view" is based on fact and not worship of an institution or it's icon.
I don't worship anything except data.
You don't have any morals
Incorrect. They are just different than yours. I know this scares you, but it's OK. People are allowed to think and act (and look) differently than you do.
It's troubling and evil
Only to your narrow, childish, tiny brain.
You decide your "morals" by what you want period. That is not better.
No, I decide my morals based on carefully considered intellectual discourse. That is better than someone else telling you how to think.
This is why I know you are no scientist
You'd be wrong. But there is a long list of things you are wrong about. We'll keep adding to the pile.
Right it is objective not what you decide it is. Ponder that some more.
The scientific method IS objective. But comparing the scientific method to a jury opinion is a false equivalence.
Poor analogy. The legal system considers available evidence and renders a verdict. If newer CONVINCING evidence comes along later then thru appeals that is corrected.
Wrong. Most appeals are based on procedural issues, NOT new evidence. It is actually very rare for new evidence to be considered.
Neither does the scientific method
That's a nonsensical statement. The scientific method is objective in the way a jury trial is not.
You'd lose but you'd lie about it.
It's possible. Maybe you are a billionaire who just happens to waste his time on this website. But I doubt it.
You also know very little about money too you idiot. That fact that I don't have to go in and sweep floor everyday like you means I knew how to make money and did. You're a sap who works for others doing menial labor.

Speak for yourself you mommies basement bottom feeder.
I've actually never done "menial labor" in my life (not that there is anything wrong with menial labor, but I've successfully avoided it). You care too much about money. I have more money than I will ever need. If you aren't working it is VERY unlikely that you are contributing anything to society. Even when you did work, you probably just pushed papers around rather than actually making a contribution. Happy to compare CVs any time you like, Super Chief.
 
You've made it pretty clear what your affiliation ISN'T. If I'm wrong, prove it. Stand and deliver (whatever that means).

LOL. You've met "several." Maybe expand your horizons a bit.

Prove it or STFU.

Definitely not a gamer. And the latter is a pretty strong accusation you are making with no proof. You better be able to back that up.

Not in a memorable or clear fashion apparently. Really shouldn't be a big deal for you to reiterate; except that you know you are wrong and will never admit it so you will not give me the opportunity to prove you wrong.

Happy to. Let me know how.

LOL. Not even close. Giving you intellectual beat downs amuses me. I wouldn't do it otherwise.

You should look into other hobbies. I hear old unathletic people like pickle ball these days.

This statement makes me think you don't know a CV is. But I certainly do have one (just spruced it up recently to apply for an ST position).

Don't have to worry about that then, since I am not a liar.

Speculation. No facts back that up.

Them lying about it and getting caught makes it difficult for future victims to be believed.

You are oddly obsessed with me being assaulted. And you keep using the word "molestation" rather than assault. Why is that?

Speculation not based in fact.

Weird thing to cheer for innocent men to go to jail. I suggest you subscribe to Netflix. Might give you something better to do with your time.

Pot - Kettle.

Again, your narrative requires the conspiracy. Mine does not.

Then please tell us where you get this objective morality from. You obviously didn't come up with it yourself. Who told you how to think?

My logic is flawless. Your logic screams of someone who didn't take any STEM classes.

I don't worship anything except data.

Incorrect. They are just different than yours. I know this scares you, but it's OK. People are allowed to think and act (and look) differently than you do.

Only to your narrow, childish, tiny brain.

No, I decide my morals based on carefully considered intellectual discourse. That is better than someone else telling you how to think.

You'd be wrong. But there is a long list of things you are wrong about. We'll keep adding to the pile.

The scientific method IS objective. But comparing the scientific method to a jury opinion is a false equivalence.

Wrong. Most appeals are based on procedural issues, NOT new evidence. It is actually very rare for new evidence to be considered.

That's a nonsensical statement. The scientific method is objective in the way a jury trial is not.

It's possible. Maybe you are a billionaire who just happens to waste his time on this website. But I doubt it.

I've actually never done "menial labor" in my life (not that there is anything wrong with menial labor, but I've successfully avoided it). You care too much about money. I have more money than I will ever need. If you aren't working it is VERY unlikely that you are contributing anything to society. Even when you did work, you probably just pushed papers around rather than actually making a contribution. Happy to compare CVs any time you like, Super Chief.
You need to ignore jockstrap John.
 
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A speculation based in facts is exactly what a hypothesis is. Go back to school and take some STEM classes.
No it is speculation and it is not fact.
Opinion based on facts.
Based on speculation
Again, please show me where in the database these infractions are listed. I've asked many times and you've never showed us. This is because they do not exist.
Has it's own special page. Worse than infractions listed in database as the NCAA explained.
And on that page the NCAA doesn't use the word infractions. There's a very good reason for that.
Can't have sanctions without infractions.
 
You've made it pretty clear what your affiliation ISN'T. If I'm wrong, prove it. Stand and deliver (whatever that means).
You're making the assertion so the burden of proof is on YOU. LOL
LOL. You've met "several." Maybe expand your horizons a bit.
I don't believe you are a scientist.
Prove it or STFU.
The burden of proof is on you.
Definitely not a gamer. And the latter is a pretty strong accusation you are making with no proof. You better be able to back that up.
Type your twitter handle in Google and see. It's pretty funny
Not in a memorable or clear fashion apparently. Really shouldn't be a big deal for you to reiterate; except that you know you are wrong and will never admit it so you will not give me the opportunity to prove you wrong.
I told you before what was needed. You refused and reported me to the mods for asking for personal information so I won't ask again and get banned. You are hiding behind that.
Happy to. Let me know how.
Already have
LOL. Not even close. Giving you intellectual beat downs amuses me. I wouldn't do it otherwise.
I find great amusement watching you implode as I call out your lies. It's funny
You should look into other hobbies. I hear old unathletic people like pickle ball these days.
This is just amusement for me. It's religion for you.
This statement makes me think you don't know a CV is. But I certainly do have one (just spruced it up recently to apply for an ST position).
I do know what it is and people living in mommies basement don't have them
Don't have to worry about that then, since I am not a liar.
You are a liar and that is why I would never waste money or time (other than mentally destroying you) trying to bet or "meet" with you. LOLOLOL
Speculation. No facts back that up.
They do.
Them lying about it and getting caught makes it difficult for future victims to be believed.
They weren't caught as they are telling the truth. Otherwise THEY would be in jail. Your conspiracy theories do not = "getting caught".
You are oddly obsessed with me being assaulted. And you keep using the word "molestation" rather than assault. Why is that?
Why did you bring it up? Do you need to talk about it more?
Speculation not based in fact.
Nope
Admirable thing to cheer for guilty men to go to jail.
Fixed it for ya.
I suggest you subscribe to Netflix.
Already have.
Might give you something better to do with your time.
I have lots to do with my time and a very small part is calling you out. It's fun.
Pot - Kettle.
Kettle - Pot
Again, your narrative requires the conspiracy. Mine does not.
No, my narrative is backed up by courts of law. Your narrative is based on a false religion.
Then please tell us where you get this objective morality from. You obviously didn't come up with it yourself. Who told you how to think?
It doesn't come from what ever I want in the moment as does yours. Do some more study about objective morality. There's a lot out there.
My logic is flawless.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 Your delusion is enormous.
Your logic screams of someone who didn't take any STEM classes.
I think you flunked all of your STEM classes.
I don't worship anything except data.
You can't worship data but you do worship JoePa and PSU.
Incorrect. They are just different than yours. I know this scares you, but it's OK. People are allowed to think and act (and look) differently than you do.
Correct. You don't have any morals as what you call morals are just whatever you desire in the moment. But yes, it is troubling.
Only to your narrow, childish, tiny brain.
No, to most normal rational people
No, I decide my morals based on carefully considered intellectual discourse.
With the voices in your head.
That is better than someone else telling you how to think.
No, that is mental illness
You'd be wrong. But there is a long list of things you are wrong about. We'll keep adding to the pile.
Afraid not.
The scientific method IS objective. But comparing the scientific method to a jury opinion is a false equivalence
It is a lot closer than a mere opinion about what baseball player is the GOAT.
Wrong. Most appeals are based on procedural issues, NOT new evidence. It is actually very rare for new evidence to be considered.
True, but new evidence can be considered as the Innocence Project often does. However, it is hard to overturn most cases and in the case of Sandusky impossible.
That's a nonsensical statement. The scientific method is objective in the way a jury trial is not.
Not true.
It's possible. Maybe you are a billionaire who just happens to waste his time on this website.
Maybe. I bet my Net Worth is greater than yours.
But I doubt it.
But you don't know do you 😂?
I've actually never done "menial labor" in my life (not that there is anything wrong with menial labor, but I've successfully avoided it).
More lies. That's all you're capable of based on these silly posts.
You care too much about money.
You brought it up not me. Hypocrite
I have more money than I will ever need.
Well, living with mom keeps your expenses down.
If you aren't working it is VERY unlikely that you are contributing anything to society.
More than you are, who is worshipping an institution and it's icon.
Even when you did work, you probably just pushed papers around rather than actually making a contribution.
Again you have no idea.
Happy to compare CVs any time you like, Super Chief.
Post yours, and without stuff blacked out. Rooster. Bet you won't LOL
 
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