FC: Amazon chooses two locations for HQ2

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Sort of. I'm not sure it's really the highest of high end tech talent -- there really isn't a high end "local" tech school and most of the local base is heavily defense IT -- and that's why the VaTech thing was an incredibly creative and smart move. I am not a D, but I have to say, the state and local governments here played this incredibly smart.

Northam took a beating on twitter - 75% of the comments were negative (the others were folks from Georgia and the Tidewater area saying they would happily take Amazon). That said, I heard some interesting comments on NPR this morning, mostly with regard to transportation and potential house pricing impacts in the area. They basically said the addition of 25,000 jobs over a ten year (give or take) period isn't that significant given the already very solid job growth in the 'area' (assume that means the DC metro area, not necessarily Crystal City/Arlington) to the tune of some 50-75,000 jobs a year the past few years. Certainly, some folks already here will take those jobs. Metro is being expanded (I thought I heard the new Metro stop in Alexandria will be to service the Amazon campus) and if behavior at HQ2 is is similar to behavior at HQ1, 75% of the employees there take public transportation. I still would rather not have HQ2 anywhere near NoVa, but is what it is.

 

[Aardvark86]

Close to the money and power troughs - shocker.

Used to watch many a PSU game at the Crystal City Sports Pub. I’m sure that and the strip club across the street are long gone

Nope. In fact, on another board this morning, a person pointed out that HQ1 in Seattle is also situated across the street from a pre-existing strip club. Coincidence? I think not!

Ah, the ethically unregulated world of Information Technology! Sigh.

 

[ejb25]

There is enough high end tech talent in DC to bring Amazon and every other major tech company to the area.

To go back to my football analogy, DC is like a Florida and Texas for football. There is as much low end talent as there is high end talent. The import thing is that there is a lot of talent to pick and choose the top candidates.

Sort of. I'm not sure it's really the highest of high end tech talent -- there really isn't a high end "local" tech school and most of the local base is heavily defense IT -- and that's why the VaTech thing was an incredibly creative and smart move. I am not a D, but I have to say, the state and local governments here played this incredibly smart.

 

[Aardvark86]

Northam took a beating on twitter - 75% of the comments were negative (the others were folks from Georgia and the Tidewater area saying they would happily take Amazon). That said, I heard some interesting comments on NPR this morning, mostly with regard to transportation and potential house pricing impacts in the area. They basically said the addition of 25,000 jobs over a ten year (give or take) period isn't that significant given the already very solid job growth in the 'area' (assume that means the DC metro area, not necessarily Crystal City/Arlington) to the tune of some 50-75,000 jobs a year the past few years. Certainly, some folks already here will take those jobs. Metro is being expanded (I thought I heard the new Metro stop in Alexandria will be to service the Amazon campus) and if behavior at HQ2 is is similar to behavior at HQ1, 75% of the employees there take public transportation. I still would rather not have HQ2 anywhere near NoVa, but is what it is.

Agree. The state's investment compared to other bidders though, is a bargain. I don't buy that 25000 jobs is insignificant. Not one bit. Absent a significant increase in density (which I oppose), housing is going to be a problem. I do know a guy who develops e-lofts down here, and I suppose he's going to be a big winner. Metro ain't going to handle the transportation bolus. It's a two track system, and there's only so many people that can get on a train. And, btw, a lot of Alexandrians will now be trying to hop on metro since their commute to DC just got ****ed. I suppose that dickless scooters are an option, but don't get me started on that rant. Finally, if you have any aspirations to getting Caps seasons tickets, get them now.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Agree. The state's investment compared to other bidders though, is a bargain. I don't buy that 25000 jobs is insignificant. Not one bit. Absent a significant increase in density (which I oppose), housing is going to be a problem. I do know a guy who develops e-lofts down here, and I suppose he's going to be a big winner. Metro ain't going to handle the transportation bolus. It's a two track system, and there's only so many people that can get on a train. And, btw, a lot of Alexandrians will now be trying to hop on metro since their commute to DC just got ****ed. I suppose that dickless scooters are an option, but don't get me started on that rant. Finally, if you have any aspirations to getting Caps seasons tickets, get them now.

Thankfully, zero interest in Caps games.

 

[Columbus_Lion]

Amazon would have controlled the smaller cities it was considering. Now they are simply a part of NY/DC. I find it interesting the Amazon basically got free demographic data from 20 cities, which they will certainly use to their advantage. I think the smaller cities (Columbus, Pittsburgh, Austin, Indy) are lucky Amazon didn't choose them, but were considered. Their growth needs to be more organic.

 

[PSUSignore]

Amazon would have controlled the smaller cities it was considering. Now they are simply a part of NY/DC. I find it interesting the Amazon basically got free demographic data from 20 cities, which they will certainly use to their advantage. I think the smaller cities (Columbus, Pittsburgh, Austin, Indy) are lucky Amazon didn't choose them, but were considered. Their growth needs to be more organic.

Austin has had and is still expecting plenty of growth without Amazon, they surely weren't needed. For selfish reasons, I was hoping they'd come so my property values would go up and because I work in the tech industry so it would be another company to consider if I went looking for jobs, although I have generally not heard good things about working for them.

 

[ejb25]

For all the cities that missed out on the Amazon Sweepstakes, it's like them not getting a 5* recruit. It's something everyone wanted, but it may or many not pan out in the long run.

But we can all agree that a class full of 5* recruits is better than not having any 5* recruits.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

For all the cities that missed out on the Amazon Sweepstakes, it's like them not getting a 5* recruit. It's something everyone wanted, but it may or many not pan out in the long run.

But we can all agree that a class full of 5* recruits is better than not having any 5* recruits.

Northern Virginia and NY don't need Amazon. They should have offered nothing for them to locate there. Both have the one thing the others didn't, and was probably the primary metric for the decision - location. I don't see how congestion, high rent, and population density are benefits for anyone other than Amazon and state governments. The people lose.

 

[ejb25]

Alabama doesn't need all those 5* recruits. It doesn't benefit anyone other than Alabama.

Northern Virginia and NY don't need Amazon. They should have offered nothing for them to locate there. Both have the one thing the others didn't, and was probably the primary metric for the decision - location. I don't see how congestion, high rent, and population density are benefits for anyone other than Amazon and state governments. The people lose.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

And Alabama doesn't need all those 5* recruits. It doesn't benefit anyone other than Alabama.

It's not a similar analogy at all. There are only so many scholarships Bama can offer; a better analogy would be Alabama taking 150 five star players every year.

 

[ejb25]

When has there ever been 150 five star players in a single year? Alabama can only give out 25 scholarships a year and not 150.

There is only so much land to go around. There are plenty of great companies that will benefit by moving to less populated and less expensive areas. Just like there will be plenty of recruits that will benefit to going to the Wisconsin, Oregon, and Virginia Techs of the world.

It's not a similar analogy at all. There are only so many scholarships Bama can offer; a better analogy would be Alabama taking 150 five star players every year.

 

[heckmans]

Really not healthy. And I say that as a nova Arlington resident

Oh. Fully agree. The "Thank you" line is TIC.
I'm a small gov guy in NOVA. The amount of wealth that is transferred to the DMV region from the rest of the country is appalling.
While dim-witted pols like Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders decry economic inequality, they would never stop to question that their big gov policies consolidate wealth to DC metro at the direct expense of the rest of the country.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

When has there ever been 150 five star players in a single year? Alabama can only give out 25 scholarships a year and not 150.

There is only so much land to go around. There are plenty of great companies that will benefit by moving to less populated and less expensive areas. Just like there will be plenty of recruits that will benefit to going to the Wisconsin, Oregon, and Virginia Techs of the world.

There hasn't. And there isn't infrastructure or housing to accommodate 25,000 employees in Crystal City at the moment either.

 

[Aardvark86]

Oh. Fully agree. The "Thank you" line is TIC.
I'm a small gov guy in NOVA. The amount of wealth that is transferred to the DMV region from the rest of the country is appalling.
While dim-witted pols like Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders decry economic inequality, they would never stop to question that their big gov policies consolidate wealth to DC metro at the direct expense of the rest of the country.

I cannot upvote this enough.

 

[kgilbert78]

Thankfully, zero interest in Caps games.

I only want to see them when they are getting beat by the Jackets....

Yeah, I know, last year....

...and we were at Game 3. If Panarin doesn't hit the post....

 

[ejb25]

Of course there isn’t. This was just announced. The 25,000 amazon employees aren’t there yet.

There hasn't. And there isn't infrastructure or housing to accommodate 25,000 employees in Crystal City at the moment either.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Of course there isn’t. This was just announced. The 25,000 amazon employees aren’t there yet.

My point is there isn't enough of either for the population we have now.

 

[Judge Smails]

Amazon didn't pay any Federal Income taxes in 2017.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

View embedded media

Man, that's embarrassing. NoVa got of relatively easy - can't put a price on proximity to power, you know? I mean, every public official in PA who supported giving Amazon $4.5bn in 'financial assistance' should be fired. What is the opportunity cost there? If you're answer is, 'It could be spent in worse ways,' you may be right, but still - that's a slap in the face to Pennsylvanians.

 

[Columbus_Lion]

Austin has had and is still expecting plenty of growth without Amazon, they surely weren't needed. For selfish reasons, I was hoping they'd come so my property values would go up and because I work in the tech industry so it would be another company to consider if I went looking for jobs, although I have generally not heard good things about working for them.

He who owns, pays taxes. Your cost of living and property taxes would have increased dramatically. Unless you would have been willing to relocate (sell house and move), its not that great of a situation. Key West is a great example. Many of the long time locals had to move out, as they could not pay the higher property taxes and increased cost of living.

 

[wbcincy]

Amazon chose what was in the best interest of Amazon, not for the other cities.

Of course they did. But if that was the only goal, there was certainly no need for the sham of a search they put on for a year just to select the two most obvious locations.

 

[ejb25]

I agree. Almost every city in America does not have the current infrastructure or housing to support an influx of 25,000 workers and their families without disrupting existing housing or traffic. Crystal City is no different.

My point is there isn't enough of either for the population we have now.

 

[Raffycorn]

A few different thoughts:

First, gotta think Penn State’s IST school and computer engineering department are happy about the split arrangement. Not too many other colleges out there can boast pretty good proximity to both sites for recruiting. It’s overall a net positive, too, for the larger I-95/Acela corridor, and for Philadelphia which will continue its enviable position of being so easily accessible to NY/DC while also being much more affordable.

Second, as a Pittsburgh city resident, I think there were certainly positives and some negatives that would have occurred had they won the bid. While it would have been a feather in the city’s cap and would have overnight placed Pittsburgh onto a global stage, the folks that know tech and commercial real estate are overwhelmingly bullish on where the city is headed; the Strip District neighborhood alone is said to have almost 1,000,000 square feet of user requirements being shopped around, which is a huge number for Pittsburgh and is likely representative of a bunch of smaller offices rather than one megauser. It isn’t as easy or as sexy, but the best, most sustainable path forward for the city is likely to continue with the biotech/robotics angles that are blowing up in the city now.

Third and finally, I think the biggest takeaway is that for all the incentives and tax breaks in the world that municipalities and states can offer up, it doesn’t beat a location where you’re both accessible and attractive to top talent. Amazon was going to go to where they believed they could attract the best people, not where they could get the best breaks. For all the money in the world that governments offered to throw directly into Amazon’s pocket, I can’t help but wonder if they wouldn’t be better off investing those dollars in making their cities and states better, more attractive places to live and to move to - especially for young people. HQ2 seems to be an indicator that companies will follow where people they want to hire want to go. Instead of Pennsylvania, for example, offering to pony up $4.5B in grant money to Amazon, it seems like it’d be a wiser use of money to instead invest those dollars in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh to help improve those cities’ liveability and quality of life, and the relocations will follow.

 

[PSUSignore]

He who owns, pays taxes. Your cost of living and property taxes would have increased dramatically. Unless you would have been willing to relocate (sell house and move), its not that great of a situation. Key West is a great example. Many of the long time locals had to move out, as they could not pay the higher property taxes and increased cost of living.

I'm well aware, and was prepared to deal with the higher taxes.

 

[wilbury]

He who owns, pays taxes. Your cost of living and property taxes would have increased dramatically. Unless you would have been willing to relocate (sell house and move), its not that great of a situation. Key West is a great example. Many of the long time locals had to move out, as they could not pay the higher property taxes and increased cost of living.

The idea that they got a bunch of valuable information they can use for business purposes is a farce. It's all public information and anybody could get it if they just took the time.

 

[heckmans]

There hasn't. And there isn't infrastructure or housing to accommodate 25,000 employees in Crystal City at the moment either.

Well, almost no one lives in Crystal city now so nothing will change.
And don't worry, the Leslie Knope-ish local govt do-gooders say that everyone will ride the failing metro. Win-Win!

 

[jughead212]

It’s embarassing the lengths some places were willing to go to land Amazon. In the end,
they went predictable and boring. Really should have went to a place that could use the economic boost - not already employment full, wealthy areas like NY and NoVA.

Amazon (or most companies for that matter) had no interest in building a corporate headquarters in some red state, backwater dump hole. They were looking for urban, mass transit, educated work force, progressive local/state government. Generally speaking, that leaves you with 5-10 states, mostly on the coasts. They already have a presence on the West Coast, so the decision was kind of obvious.

 

[jughead212]

It's crazy. Something like 10 of the 13 richest counties in the US are commuting distance from DC. Thank you all for your tax dollars feeding the Federal leviathan.

You are welcome. Now get back to work.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Amazon (or most companies for that matter) had no interest in building a corporate headquarters in some red state, backwater dump hole. They were looking for urban, mass transit, educated work force, progressive local/state government. Generally speaking, that leaves you with 5-10 states, mostly on the coasts. They already have a presence on the West Coast, so the decision was kind of obvious.

I thought the same and I live in NoVA. I did think they’d go more towards Loudoun and the 267 tech corridor, but CC makes sense. Still, they don’t add much that Arlington/NoVA doesn’t already have or couldn’t get elsewhere without massive financial incentives.

 

[jughead212]

I thought the same and I live in NoVA. I did think they’d go more towards Loudoun and the 267 tech corridor, but CC makes sense. Still, they don’t add much that Arlington/NoVA doesn’t already have or couldn’t get elsewhere without massive financial incentives.

All true. Valid discussion to be had regarding the cash give away.

 

[Obliviax]

Dutch West India company 1626 = Amazon 2018

 

[Spydersgirl]

Amazon (or most companies for that matter) had no interest in building a corporate headquarters in some red state, backwater dump hole. They were looking for urban, mass transit, educated work force, progressive local/state government. Generally speaking, that leaves you with 5-10 states, mostly on the coasts. They already have a presence on the West Coast, so the decision was kind of obvious.

You're a little uppity...where do you live? Been to Seattle lately...it's a blue dumphole.

 

[jughead212]

You're a little uppity...where do you live? Been to Seattle lately...it's a blue dumphole.

Just being honest. I thought you rubes appreciated straight talk. Amazon wasn't going to Arkansas, or Oklahoma. Not even Kansas City for that matter. As I wrote, they wanted urban, with access to transportation, culture and education, and set in a progressive environment. This fits their self-image and attracts talent. Austin is great, but it sits in a backwards state full of idiots (see election results). New York and DC deliver on the list above, and also happen to feature access to the nations decision makers.

The fact is, as much as this country is separated politically, it is also separated economically along pretty much the same lines. Progressive, forward thinking states/cities are pulling away and the economic disparity between red/blue is only going to grow.

Clinton (Hillary) won 500 counties to Dumps 2,600, but she won 64% of the GDP. Think on that.

 

[Op2]

Interesting tidbit from the (obviously fake but still funny) site The Babylon Bee.

https://babylonbee.com/news/amazon-to-provide-all-employees-with-prime-box-to-live-in

 

[Obliviax]

Just being honest. I thought you rubes appreciated straight talk. Amazon wasn't going to Arkansas, or Oklahoma. Not even Kansas City for that matter. As I wrote, they wanted urban, with access to transportation, culture and education, and set in a progressive environment. This fits their self-image and attracts talent. Austin is great, but it sits in a backwards state full of idiots (see election results). New York and DC deliver on the list above, and also happen to feature access to the nations decision makers.

The fact is, as much as this country is separated politically, it is also separated economically along pretty much the same lines. Progressive, forward thinking states/cities are pulling away and the economic disparity between red/blue is only going to grow.

Clinton (Hillary) won 500 counties to Dumps 2,600, but she won 64% of the GDP. Think on that.

LOL....Austin is great, but it sits in a backwards state full of idiots (see election results).

Funny that people keep moving to TX and then trying to make it CA.

I do agree with the rest though. The NY mayor and Gov are giving away a king's ransom to get Amazon's WHQ (2.5). For that, they will tax the living $hit out of the employees making ~ $80,000. For that, they will build infrastructure and improve conditions for the homeless. Net result? Bezos makes billions. Cuomo gets elected, de Blasio gets elected, poor people get a boost, working middle class gets screwed.

 

[Nitt1300]

LOL....Austin is great, but it sits in a backwards state full of idiots (see election results).

Funny that people keep moving to TX and then trying to make it CA.

I do agree with the rest though. The NY mayor and Gov are giving away a king's ransom to get Amazon's WHQ (2.5). For that, they will tax the living $hit out of the employees making ~ $80,000. For that, they will build infrastructure and improve conditions for the homeless. Net result? Bezos makes billions. Cuomo gets elected, de Blasio gets elected, poor people get a boost, working middle class gets screwed.

same as it ever was- poor folks can't pay taxes, rich folks won't- that leaves only the middle class

 

[Obliviax]

same as it ever was- poor folks can't pay taxes, rich folks won't- that leaves only the middle class

Same as it ever was, Same as it ever was, SAME AS IT EVER WAS

 

[heckmans]

There hasn't. And there isn't infrastructure or housing to accommodate 25,000 employees in Crystal City at the moment either.

Does not matter. Hardly anybody lives in Crystal City. Place is almost a ghost town on the weekends.
The real impact will be traffic as 25K people commute into this less than efficient area for traffic