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Match Thread Edinboro dual - Sun. Feb. 25 at 2 pm

Well, LCL recovery is everything from 3-12 weeks depending upon the severity. If torn completely I don't see him going even with rest, injury default at Bigs, and a brace.

Let's hope it's a minor partial tear or strain of the 3 week recovery variety.

We could all definitely see the stress on the joint and his reaction, but it didn't seem as bad as Jason's injury where you could actually see the knee buckle as something tore.

I suspect we won't hear anything definitive from Cael between now and bigs, unless it were fully torn and he was deemed out. I suspect we will all be in the dark, discovering live if he wrestles or defaults out of his first match in a couple of weeks.

I don't think he will be out, and remain optimistic he will at least be on the Jason Nolf protocol until nationals with the same result.

In the arena of irresponsible chatter - If we encounter the worst case scenario, would it be outrageous to consider tossing in Facundo and burning his shirt? Oddly enough, might then Carter go second semester next year and bump Facundo for the tourneys to try for #4 next year? My biggest concern with Alex is he has been solely focused on Free, so his top and bottom skills would be far from optimal. I suspect he is definitely AA caliber even with the crazy circumstances. Granted we don't need him to win nationals.

All crazy somewhat silly speculation at this point, but it's going to be a very long two weeks. If Carter can't go this year he might have even less interest in going next year just to get #4.

It's hard to believe we could lose two #1s and still win nationals without much of a challenge. We are blessed despite the bad luck.
Carter is wrestling the post-season, going to give it a shot. He really does not want to wrestle next year, he will not want to end his college career missing the post-season. The typical person is 3 to 12 weeks recovery, Carter is not the typical person. He will get therapy 3 to 4 times a day to speed the process, the common person gets therapy 3 times a week. He is a world class athlete, incredibly fit and strong. His leg muscles will help stabilize the knee a lot more than the common person. He is incredibly tough and determined. PSU does not need points to win NCAAs, if he trys and cannot go, PSU still wins. Nolf wrestled on one leg with a worse knee injury if the LCL speculation about Carter is true.
 
A secondary worry is that Carter hasn’t been at optimal conditioning due to lingering sickness. Even assuming he can wrestle with this, his ability to be at optimal conditioning would seem to be compromised. :(
We talked about this same thing on the way home from the match today. Carter was looking like he did in the early season lately. We're hoping it will not effect his conditioning too much.
 
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I was outside Rec Hall at maybe 1:05ish. Up walks Beau Bartlett, carrying what looked like take-out food in a take-out bag. He didn’t look like someone wrestling in a little over an hour.
 
Carter is wrestling the post-season, going to give it a shot. He really does not want to wrestle next year, he will not want to end his college career missing the post-season. The typical person is 3 to 12 weeks recovery, Carter is not the typical person. He will get therapy 3 to 4 times a day to speed the process, the common person gets therapy 3 times a week. He is a world class athlete, incredibly fit and strong. His leg muscles will help stabilize the knee a lot more than the common person. He is incredibly tough and determined. PSU does not need points to win NCAAs, if he trys and cannot go, PSU still wins. Nolf wrestled on one leg with a worse knee injury if the LCL speculation about Carter is true.
Nolf's knee injury occurred in late January, about a month earlier in the wrestling season. So Nolf had 4 weeks more recovery time before postseason than Starocci does. So not really apples to apples.
 
He be aight.
The Simpsons Thank You GIF by AniDom
 
As the one seed Starocci would get 2 byes and could finish no lower than 6th at Big Tens. Is that right? He wouldn't have to medically default until the 3rd round? Just thinking out loud. That would give him close to 4 weeks to mend for nationals.
 
As the one seed Starocci would get 2 byes and could finish no lower than 6th at Big Tens. Is that right? He wouldn't have to medically default until the 3rd round? Just thinking out loud. That would give him close to 4 weeks to mend for nationals.
No.

16-man bracket with 14 wrestlers --> 1 bye into the quarters.
 
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As the one seed Starocci would get 2 byes and could finish no lower than 6th at Big Tens. Is that right? He wouldn't have to medically default until the 3rd round? Just thinking out load.
1/2 seed gets a bye in the first round, which puts them into the quarters by default, win that and he's Top 6 which qualifies him for nationals.
 
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Being out here in San Diego I hadn't even heard of Pennsylvania Western University (PennWest) before, and also didn't realize Clarion and Edinboro were both part of the University. And I just now saved myself from looking any more uninformed by thinking their California campus was, say, in the state of California! Outside of Pittsburgh? First Wyoming Seminary and now this! Who woulda' thunk it? This is what happens when you are retired and have the time to research whatever mundane question enters your mind : ) As far as acceptance rates, I found this:

"Pennsylvania Western University has an acceptance rate of 94%. Half the applicants admitted to Penn West who submitted test scores have an SAT score between 940 and 1160 or an ACT score of 18 and 25."
Being here in Pennsylvania I never heard of Pennsylvania western til now. There really is now Penn west. It was just a dumb marketing plan by some moron educators. Clarion is still clarion. Edinboro is still edinboro. In the north central part of the state they merged the administration of Bloomsburg loch haven and Mansfield and called it Commonwealth. Whatever.
 
How did baumgartner ever end up at edinboro in the first place?
Interesting Flo doc on just that a few years old now.

Edinboro got an administration in the mid 80s that wanted to feature wrestling and hired Mike DeAnna, fresh off college success at Iowa and a member of the U.S. team. His teammate on the national team was Bruce. DeAnna from Cleveland area and Bruce’s northern Jersey roots were perfect.
 
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Just not a particularly smart move throwing your leg in there even without the benefit of hindsight
For any wrestling officials out there, should the match be stopped for reaching a 15+ point advantage when the near fall criteria has ended or when the hold is completely released (per the highlighted area below)? At the 0:35 mark Carter's opponent basically got back past a 45 degree angle, but Carter still had the deep waist. Per the NCAA Rule Book:

Near Fall Criteria. A near fall is a position in which the offensive wrestler has the opponent in a controlled pinning situation in which any one of the following three criteria are met: a. The defensive wrestler is held in a high bridge or on both elbows; Any part of one shoulder or scapula, or the head is touching the mat and the other shoulder or scapula is held at an angle of 45 degrees or less to the mat; or c. Any part of both shoulders or both scapulae are held within four inches of the mat. A near fall is ended when the defensive wrestler is no longer in one of the three criteria positions. The referee shall not award near fall until the match time expires or when the hold used to secure the near fall criterion is completely released.
 
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Interesting Flo doc on just that a few years old now.

Edinboro got an administration in the mid 80s that wanted to feature wrestling and hired Mike DeAnna, fresh off college success at Iowa and a member of the U.S. team. His teammate on the national team was Bruce. DeAnna from Cleveland area and Bruce’s northern Jersey roots were perfect.
Before he took the Edinboro job he was a grad assistant at Oklahoma State. He wrestled for Indiana State. I met him once at States. He was a big man .
 
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For any wrestling officials out there, should the match be stopped for reaching a 15+ point advantage when the near fall criteria has ended or when the hold is completely released (per the highlighted area below)? At the 0:35 mark Carter's opponent basically got back past a 45 degree angle, but Carter still had the deep waist. Per the NCAA Rule Book:

Near Fall Criteria. A near fall is a position in which the offensive wrestler has the opponent in a controlled pinning situation in which any one of the following three criteria are met: a. The defensive wrestler is held in a high bridge or on both elbows; Any part of one shoulder or scapula, or the head is touching the mat and the other shoulder or scapula is held at an angle of 45 degrees or less to the mat; or c. Any part of both shoulders or both scapulae are held within four inches of the mat. A near fall is ended when the defensive wrestler is no longer in one of the three criteria positions. The referee shall not award near fall until the match time expires or when the hold used to secure the near fall criterion is completely released.
When the hold is released, because he can still work for the pin with the same hold.
 
When the hold is released, because he can still work for the pin with the same hold.
True, though refs typically don't consider a deep waist by itself to be a hold for NF purposes. Typically it means something tying up an arm or the head.
 
True, though refs typically don't consider a deep waist by itself to be a hold for NF purposes. Typically it means something tying up an arm or the head.
I was surprised it wasn’t stopped but I can see the logic behind letting it play out as it appeared the Boro kid was still working to fight off his back.
 
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I read the rules and I understand why maybe back points were not awarded in Carter's match. However I think in a blowout team and individual match the ref could of ended it and no one would of complained.
As an official you should be aware of the moment. I coached and then umpired Babe Ruth Baseball. If it was a blowout (no 10-15 run rule) and losing team ran out a young pitcher , I was going to widen the strike zone.
 
This is the expected response, even if Starocci had his foot twisted off.
Cael didn’t seem down and neither did Brooks who is pretty close with CStar. They know and the body language didn’t reflect doom and gloom. He may have to pull a Nolf and default at B1Gs and battle from a 4 seed at nationals.
 
I read the rules and I understand why maybe back points were not awarded in Carter's match. However I think in a blowout team and individual match the ref could of ended it and no one would of complained.
As an official you should be aware of the moment. I coached and then umpired Babe Ruth Baseball. If it was a blowout (no 10-15 run rule) and losing team ran out a young pitcher , I was going to widen the strike zone.
But Carter clearly didn’t want the tech, but the fall, and the official let it play out liberally to that script. It happened fast, so while I certainly would have loved a different call a second before the injury, it wasn’t an official’s error IMO.
 
A hobbled Starocci still wins a natty. 174 after him is the weakest weight in the country. Mekhi and Griffith ain’t doing it, and after that, Devos or Pat Kennedy? No way.
 
Some things about the match today:

The Edinboro kids came to scrap. There was no hint of Hawkeye or Wolverine about them.

I have been following wrestling for over half a century. I have never seen a match where none of the bouts went into the third period.

Carter looked fantastic until... Man, I hope, for his sake, that he recovers quickly.

We are going into Big Tens with SIX undefeated wrestlers! Has that ever happened before?

A trivia question on the scoreboard asked between matches a question about how many points Penn State has scored in duel meets this season. How embarrassing.

Edinboro had zero takedowns.
 
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My aunt said she saw on X that a hyperextended knee. Take it for what it’s worth.
My money’s on an LCL injury or an injury to the Iliotibial Band. Those are the main structures on the outside (lateral side) of the knee and that’s where the force happened. I’ve injured both. I’m looking on the bright side that his leg wasn’t planted. Those are going to freakin’ hurt when they happen, but like someone said, he will have had an MRI and treatment/rehab would have started immediately since this was a home dual.

Stay positive people.
 
A post I didn't like as it is disrespectful of a DI wrestler.
Friggin' garbage time against a kid who didn't belong on the same mat as him.
A post I did like.
BTW, credit to Carter’s opponent, Joey Arnold, for going out of his way to make sure he got to shake Carter’s hand and say something before they helped Carter off.

Based on the standard of the first post, Cael's teams would have noone to wrestle.
 
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