Colleges open or close? Liberty University is a model
- Thread starter Harrisburg Dave
- Start date
Alrighty then I was wrong on that one. Gimme a red X.
All I know is what I read in the article.
I would like to read and learn more about how they achieved what they did despite predictions by the expert critics.
Some apparently have so much vested in the negative that they can’t or won’t try to open their minds.
I would like to read and learn more about how they achieved what they did despite predictions by the expert critics.
Some apparently have so much vested in the negative that they can’t or won’t try to open their minds.
My company has about 10% of the people going into work. The rest are working from home (online). We have had zero cases.
It sounds about what Liberty has done. So yes, opening up at 10% capacity works.
It sounds about what Liberty has done. So yes, opening up at 10% capacity works.
Liberty had about 10% of students back. No university can open its dorms and dining halls in the fall and only have 10% of capacity being used. The financial numbers don't work. Too high of fixed costs to open up dorms and dining halls for that little incoming $.
If people are being regularly tested, that seems like a sound plan.
Here’s an idea, coming from someone who had a C- in frosh bio, lets bring back senior and grad students in majors that would most benefit from personal instruction and access to University facilities.
Or, we could just stay put and watch the University evaporate.
That post makes sense. I think people are just wanting to know what exactly you are finding at Liberty University that is applicable elsewhere.
Wouldn’t the relevant facts be how many students, faculty, workers, and family members needed to be treated or hospitalized (or possibly even passed away)?
I would hope nobody advocates things must be shut down based on only one or two positive test results.
Well, it works if you still charge the students full price whether they are on campus using the facilities or not. Which I think is what the lawsuit is about.
We are good. As you may know the Walking Dead started here so Covid is just a bump in the road.
Did you miss the part where at Liberty the 10% that did return did not get personal instruction? They took online courses. They also had very limited access to university facilities.
Mainly that given the choice between: A) living and dealing with the pain attached to it; or B) dying slowly while hiding under the bed in an attempt to be "safe," Liberty took a shot at (A).
It may not have been perfect, but at least they took a shot.
I think that's applicable elsewhere...everywhere in fact.
If someone is under 24 they are more likely to die by a lighting strike than CV19
You call less than 10% of students on campus and only taking online courses taking a shot? Even the article that dave referenced - never provided a link - shows multiple other colleges who have done similar things but no one seems to care about them, those who want to worship at the feet of Falwell only want to discuss Liberty.
Here’s the image - what a bunch of crybabies
Last edited:
Sounds like it was pretty much shut down to me.
Like many universities, Liberty has moved all classes to online sessions, closed its recreation centers, migrated convocations and religious services online, canceled student activities, suspended team sports and closed the campus to visitors.
The school said it has prohibited gatherings of more than 10 people and converted food service to take-out meals only.
"Liberty did not reopen. Liberty has between 1,000 and 2,000 students on a campus built for 15,500 and almost a thousand are international students who have nowhere else to go," he said. "Others have no place else to be except in their dorms."
Earlier in March, Falwell told Fox News that many people were "overreacting" to the pandemic. "Maybe now this is their next attempt to get Trump," the university president also said.
As of March 24, about 1,900 students had returned to campus out of the student population of 14,000 to 15,000, university spokesman Scott Lamb told CNN. University officials are prepared for about 5,000 students to return to campus, Lamb said.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/us/liberty-university-lawsuit/index.html
I don't know what's worse, referring to it as a university or calling it a model. A model for what?
If all classes are online and all facilities like rec centers, student unions, libraries, greek life etc. are closed, what's the sense of bringing any students back to physically on campus? Why would a student go back to campus for that?
Agree on the model part, they did nothing unique or aspirational. But that’s the second time in this thread I’ve heard it’s status as “university” called into question. I’m genuinely curious what specifically makes it not a university.
IBTL........
Religious right has ruined this country. Referencing this subject matter should not be for this board. Again there is a board for this .
Religious right has ruined this country. Referencing this subject matter should not be for this board. Again there is a board for this .
My suggestion is to not oversell a story. Dave came in claiming Liberty did something amazing and should be given all kinds of kudos and we should all follow their model. Upon closer inspection they’ve done nothing novel as evidenced by the image I shared.
Now if you’re asking my feelings as I’ve stated in multiple other threads we need to get back to normal pronto. Get the kids back on campus, all of them not just 8%, and return to normal life. If you wanna wear masks to feel like you’re doing something - go for it. More and more evidence is coming out that this disease has been around since last year and we lived normal lives with the covid until March when the government went full lockdown. We’ve flattened the curve, hospitals are saying they’re good to go, why delay any longer and do more damage to the economy and the education of all kids K through college.
I hope you are right, Dave, and I hope it is actually useful as a model. But 8286's point (that over 85% of the students went/stayed home, and the rest of the students sheltered in place in their dorm rooms, rendering Liberty University a less useful model than you originally opined), seems to me to have some merit.
IMHO, the country of Sweden provides perhaps the best example of a different way to address the Coronavirus. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Swedish have pretty much kept the entire country open, only isolating/quarantining the elderly and others most at risk of dying from Coronavirus, all in the hope that they will develop a "herd immunity" more rapidly, and protect themselves in that fashion. Whether that turns out to be wise public health policy is a fascinating and important question. I believe it is too early to tell, but I am very interested in the result.
Agree about Sweden. It will be interesting to see how that ultimately turns out. And if some of the strategies would work here. At the same time, I think that we are assuming at Liberty that 100% of the campus is being used for 10% of the students. Do we know the % of staff and faculty that returned? But more importantly, what if only 10% of the campus is open? And what if some of the mitigation strategies they used work, wouldn’t that be useful? I can personally say that I am facing that challenge today about how to plan to return safely. What does it look like? Liberty is one data point. Perhaps we can learn from it and not reflexively diminish the value because they have an opposing political view. I hope to find the right way to keep people safe, wherever the ideas and days points reside.
well the have a higher death toll than even the US per capita in a much less densely populated country. Also have infectious and death rates many multiples higher than their neighbors Finland and Norway.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...strategy-is-not-what-it-seems/?outputType=amp
My wife’s company has had 100% of its people throughout the whole virus going into work and they’re dealing with customers and they’ve had 0 cases....so yes, opening up at 100% capacity works.
Sw
Sweden has canceled all events with over 50 people, shut down bar service across the country, moved all high school and university instruction on line, and advised telework and social distancing. The only major differences are (1) seated restaurants remained open with social distancing in place while we moved to curbside pickup. (2) elementary schools stayed open (3) they kept what we label “non-essential” businesses open - salons, clothing stores and gyms. As I see it, the only area where they will have a slightly lesser economic hit is with select service workers - hair stylists, waiters and waitresses, gym operators. Is that worth the higher fatality rate? Time will tell.
Sweden has canceled all events with over 50 people, shut down bar service across the country, moved all high school and university instruction on line, and advised telework and social distancing. The only major differences are (1) seated restaurants remained open with social distancing in place while we moved to curbside pickup. (2) elementary schools stayed open (3) they kept what we label “non-essential” businesses open - salons, clothing stores and gyms. As I see it, the only area where they will have a slightly lesser economic hit is with select service workers - hair stylists, waiters and waitresses, gym operators. Is that worth the higher fatality rate? Time will tell.
I
I agree with everything you stated. What if we can learn from this approach. Is it possible that we (and their Nordic neighbors) are just delaying our march toward the same death rate? Without a vaccine that may be true. Or maybe we find practices to protect the most vulnerable. We also regularly omit the additional deaths that result from a collapsed economy such as those from poverty, suicidal, depression, and intentional deferral of critical medical care. So a balanced look where Sweden didn’t shut down their economy may be more appropriate. And maybe you’re right but it would give another data point that we need.
Thanks for the info, BBS. It appears that Sweden is not quite as "open" as I had thought.
