Yeah, it's sort of like Pitt football fans expecting their team to be a playoff contender every year.
Chambers having an incredible run
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Yeah, it's sort of like Pitt football fans expecting their team to be a playoff contender every year.
I don’t know if I agree or not. I thought they decided to milk the clock and stop attacking. And it could have cost them. It seems to me that they started attacking again, and it saved their hides. The way they played for the majority of the game, I was yelling at the TV, “keep your foot on the gas pedal!”
Next year's draft could be a 2 for 1 deal. There's a chance the NBA does away with one and done. Making 1st year college players and high school seniors
available. Doubling the talent in next year's draft. Tough call for Tony. Not ready. But, could get drafted higher this year if one and done rule put to bed.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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I'm with you, but I'm not dogging the team as much as I am the school for not giving the program what it needs to be competitive on a regular basis. As to the players, anyone who puts on the blue and white will always get my whole hearted support, regardless of the sport.
Who's getting giddy? jdm said it's the PSU standard over the last 30 years. He didn't say it's what we should be shooting for.I am, but let's not get giddy because we're having some success in the NIT. We won it 8 or 9 years ago as I recall. We really parlayed that into the future, didn't we?
Tweren't me, but it doesn't come as a surprise. Believe the info was contained in an article that was penned by Bauer.
The team has come together the last 3rd of the season and into the post-season. Chambers and the players deserve credit for that. 11-5 over their last 16 games is pretty impressive. It just came too late this season to find the NCAA tournament. The non conference did not get them ready to start the conference season strong and they paid for it. I think Carr comes back because I don't think he'll get drafted. He's shooting 39% inside the 3 point line this year and he's a score first point guard. Not sure what NBA teams are looking for that.. just think he has some work to do to become a complete player. I just hope next year the non conference is challenging and the team comes out with the urgency they've showed over the last 1/3 of the year. It's encouraging to see them play well in the B1G tournament and the NIT against some very good programs. If they make the NCAA tournament next year, this run will serve them well.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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I know where your heart is. Same as most others here. Everyone’s disappointed with where the program has been and is now—in the big picture. But our team just knocked off Notre Dame and Marquette and is on its way to NYC and WE ARE ... still typing about the disappointment.
Best news for all of us: that there’s finally a counter point.
I believe the point being made is that we won’t necessarily learn if Chambers game management has improved until he does not have Carr to bail out his game plan.
And that other coach did not usually blow a players redshirt unless he was going to play the player. Chambers blew Harrar’s redshirt and then did not really play him until Watkins got hurt, even though he had two upperclassmen backup Centers.....
We are only a young team if Carr and Watkins return.
Not guaranteed.
If even Carr leaves we will be just about as young next year, relying on freshman guards.
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IMO this team was pretty bad defensively early in the year. Didn't run back hard in transition, didn't stay on top of screens, didn't block out, left their feet too often, didn't workhard with their feet to get position. These things are still a problem IMO but they are much improved. Interestingly true freshman Harrar is one of the least athletic on the squad but one of the best blocking out and working hard with his feet.
Carr is a tremendous offensive player. He and Watkins are great on the screen roll. PSU needs another perimeter shooter (Reaves is so so, Bostick not so much, Stevens only inside 17', Wheeler not at all).
I think this is a top 25 team next year if everybody comes back, one of the freshmen can shoot, and the team continues to improve on defense.
Dick Bennett is a unicorn. If you could just go out and hire a guy with a scheme that gets you to the tournament with slow, un-athletic non-NBA type players -- everybody would do it. What Dick Bennett did can't be duplicated.
Chambers is trying to do it the non-unicorn way -- by actually going out and recruiting against established programs, recruiting real athletes. People are moaning about losing Carr to the NBA -- well when's the last time a PSU basketball player was even remotely talked about as an early entry to the NBA. Doesn't that tell you something?
Patience people. PSU is right on the verge of being the kind of program that actually competes in a top BB conference and can at least think about the NCAA tournament most years. Yeah it took 7 years of really hard work to get here and people are complaining because of Dick Bennett? Look at the hard work, appreciate the hard work.
I don't think Sandy is stupid and Chambers was in no danger of being fired in any case, but if he were dumped, that would be as stupid as Minnesota firing Glen Mason and going right back to the basement. PSU would be back in the weeds of college basketball for another 20 years.
Of course no one is satisfied until PSU makes the NCAA tournament and has some success. That is the goal of everybody associated with the program, obviously.
But I for one am kind of happy to see that talked about as a possibility for PSU next year. I am pretty excited to see actual future NBA players on the PSU roster - that is something that used to happen one a generation and now it could get to be pretty regular.
I for one really enjoy reading about PSU beating Top 10 type programs -- that is starting to happen once or twice a season, and it never ever happened before. I really enjoy PSU going up against established programs like Marquette and winning because PSU actually *has better athletes.* This is all things that we at PSU don't get to see very often in our lives.
With better coaching and scheduling, this Penn State team would have been in the NCAAs, regardless of the injury and suspension problems that occurred.
But the main thing that I have seen in this NIT run are two true road victories against legitimate programs. Road wins are tough to come by for just about any team, and these wins against ND and Marquette show that Penn State's team is developing some character and toughness. That is a real positive for this program that can be carried over into next year.
Hopefully, Chambers and his crew will learn from the coaching and scheduling issues that caused this year's team to miss the NCAAs. There are really no excuses that are going to play well for Chambers for the 2018-19 season.
But the main thing that I have seen in this NIT run are two true road victories against legitimate programs. Road wins are tough to come by for just about any team, and these wins against ND and Marquette show that Penn State's team is developing some character and toughness. That is a real positive for this program that can be carried over into next year.
Hopefully, Chambers and his crew will learn from the coaching and scheduling issues that caused this year's team to miss the NCAAs. There are really no excuses that are going to play well for Chambers for the 2018-19 season.
Dick Bennett's first year was in 1995. (he followed a year with Stan Van Gundy, BTW). According to Wiki, Wiscy has been in the NCAA dance from 1997 ~ 2017. Quite a run.
Bull crap.
When Chambers had a roster of his players 3 years ago you were saying it would take 6 or 7 years to build a program.
5 years from now you will be saying it takes 20 years to build a program.
If we get to the NIT Final, how do our opponents compare to Kentucky's possible route to Final Four?
Us - Temple, ND, Marguette and Miss St.
Cats - Davidson, Buffalo, K-St and Loyola/Nevada Winner
Us - Temple, ND, Marguette and Miss St.
Cats - Davidson, Buffalo, K-St and Loyola/Nevada Winner
Just curious about opinions wrt the financial commitment for PSU men's hoops....
I've always assumed the program was fully funded. It was fully funded - however that is defined - way back in the late 80s when the outcry about being more competitive in hoops was really gaining momentum (from my perspective).
So, where/how do we need to dedicate more financial resources? Are we talking about paying Chambers and staff more competitive base salaries? Or jettisoning them and paying the greater salaries to a whole new staff, in hopes of drawing the interest of a bigger-name HC?
Is it around facilities? New arena? Improved seating configuration of the BJC for hoops? Improved practice and off-court facilities? Recruiting budget? Travel accommodations? (do they use the PSU jet now?) What exactly do we have in those areas now, and what upgrades are needed? At what approximate cost?
I'm all for being consistently competitive in bball. I want us to be a factor in the B1G each season, a legit Dance contender 3 out of every 4 seasons, and an NIT lock in the years we don't get into the Madness. From there, I want us to progress to the point where we expect to get past the 1st round, and be in the early conversations about Sweet 16. Breaking through that next barrier semi-consistently is rarefied air for 90% of the P5 programs. I'm talking us being another Purdue or Ohio State or Michigan in the B1G.
I think Chambers is capable of getting us at least on the verge of that, building off the current success in recruiting and W-L. I think there are better coaches out there, meaning ones who would want a shot at taking PSU hoops to the next level and be able to recruit Phila, DC, NYC areas competitively. I don't know who they are, but I don't doubt there are coaches out there who can/will do it following Success With Honor. That said, I'm in favor of keeping Chambers for the short-term (2 to 3 more seasons) before re-evaluating the state and trajectory of the program.
But I don't know exactly what areas specifically we need to increase or redistribute the financial resources to get there. It is more than paying a HC a top salary, but I get that that is a big part of getting the thing moving. I suspect the real answers are not quite as obvious and easy as I assume they should be.
I've always assumed the program was fully funded. It was fully funded - however that is defined - way back in the late 80s when the outcry about being more competitive in hoops was really gaining momentum (from my perspective).
So, where/how do we need to dedicate more financial resources? Are we talking about paying Chambers and staff more competitive base salaries? Or jettisoning them and paying the greater salaries to a whole new staff, in hopes of drawing the interest of a bigger-name HC?
Is it around facilities? New arena? Improved seating configuration of the BJC for hoops? Improved practice and off-court facilities? Recruiting budget? Travel accommodations? (do they use the PSU jet now?) What exactly do we have in those areas now, and what upgrades are needed? At what approximate cost?
I'm all for being consistently competitive in bball. I want us to be a factor in the B1G each season, a legit Dance contender 3 out of every 4 seasons, and an NIT lock in the years we don't get into the Madness. From there, I want us to progress to the point where we expect to get past the 1st round, and be in the early conversations about Sweet 16. Breaking through that next barrier semi-consistently is rarefied air for 90% of the P5 programs. I'm talking us being another Purdue or Ohio State or Michigan in the B1G.
I think Chambers is capable of getting us at least on the verge of that, building off the current success in recruiting and W-L. I think there are better coaches out there, meaning ones who would want a shot at taking PSU hoops to the next level and be able to recruit Phila, DC, NYC areas competitively. I don't know who they are, but I don't doubt there are coaches out there who can/will do it following Success With Honor. That said, I'm in favor of keeping Chambers for the short-term (2 to 3 more seasons) before re-evaluating the state and trajectory of the program.
But I don't know exactly what areas specifically we need to increase or redistribute the financial resources to get there. It is more than paying a HC a top salary, but I get that that is a big part of getting the thing moving. I suspect the real answers are not quite as obvious and easy as I assume they should be.
I hear ya, but I gather from what was written about the 'intervention' with Carr, was that he was perhaps an impediment to the gameplan more than bailing out the gameplan. Once Carr bought in (early Feb.?) with the strong encouragement of the coaches and players, the gameplans seemed to get a lot better, and Chambers a lot smarter, and the supporting players are lot more confident.
As for Harrar, I agree that ideally a coach does not blow a shirt on a player unless he is confident in them playing, but I go back to what we fans do not see at practice and in film study. Freshmen do as Freshmen do sometimes.... and consistency ain't always what they do best. Imo.
PSU was better than decent as a wrestling program. they were a perennial top 10 team, often top 5 & were the only team (1953) east of the Mississippi to win the NCAA title. for a long time they were the only team to ever beat Iowa in Carver hawkeye Arena. Only time period where the program was down was just before Cael's arrival
so yeah, its not fair to compare the hoops program to wrestling
IMHO..chicken and egg.
Comparing BB to Football, nobody was going to wake up one day and say "hey, lets build a 108,000 seat stadium, hire a good coach, and people will come to the cowpaths of central PA to watch football." It doesn't work that way. It is incremental. Football grew and as it did, the fanbase grew. As the fanbase grew, the revenue...then the spending, grew.
We have a decent venue but watching a game on TV with 8,000 people in the stands is painful. More so when you know some 6'8" Junior in HS kid in philly is watching it to. Then, he gets the mail the next day with an offer to Georgetown, 'Nova, St. Johns, BC, Syracuse (cough cough), UConn, UVA, etc.
And it is harder today...kids can go anywhere, shoe companies, agents and AAU are corrupt. We have been in a "pay to play" environment for quite a while. PSU cannot afford to get caught changing grades or paying "agents" today. And if you get lucky and get that "David Robinson" (a player that isn't highly recruited but blossoms), he is going to leave for the NBA.
we will lose garner and carr at minimum.
without those two we will struggle to make the NIT next year.
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Have no idea what "fully funded" means. I do recall something about the BB team, believe it took place earlier during Chambers's tenure, having some sort of difficulty getting court time for practice. Haven't heard anything since, but that's inexcusable.
A new facility would be nice, but that's putting the cart before the horse. First priority is money for the coaching staff. Either it's another crew or if Chambers is successful it's to retain him. The money is there, it's just a matter of reallocating it from spending on areas that have no hope of ever providing a return. It's that simple. Just ask Vinny Paz.
Saying Chambers screwed up by not playing Harrar earlier is equal to saying that Franklin screwed up by not giving Saquon 20 carries a game right out of the gate as a frosh.
A freshman is much different 3 months into his freshman season then he was in first week of games.
Harrar wasn't ready in Nov/Dec. He is now, that is why he is playing over guys like Pierce and Moore.
A freshman is much different 3 months into his freshman season then he was in first week of games.
Harrar wasn't ready in Nov/Dec. He is now, that is why he is playing over guys like Pierce and Moore.
Bennett is simply an example, But what he proved was that a really good coach could achieve more with less. So the answer isn't to recruit lesser-talented players, it's to hire an excellent coach.
I would never say that someone who, after being fired from the last one, can somehow get a job for considerably more money is stupid. Incompetent is another matter. While the jury remains out on the question, it's getting there.
Obli.....”decent venue” is being more than kind. And I suspect they had nowhere close to 8,000 actual bodies in the house for more than a couple of their games. Watching their games from the BJC is VERY painful.
Thanks. By reallocating the spending from areas that have no hope of a return.... are you saying that some non-revenue sports may need to be cut? Or that in order to be sustained, they need a designated donor ala (smaller scale) Pegula or Panzer? Any sports come to mind?
Back in the late 80s, early 90s, when designating a specific sport for your NLC donation (or Levi Lamb Fund), the NLC would discourage designating either football or men's basketball specifically, as those sports were "fully funded". I believe that meant that they had all necessary budget items covered in those two sports at 100% or more, and would rather see the money go to the general fund or have a non-revenue sport receive the specific designation. I think a lot of people I knew / know chose wrestling, for example. Others chose Volleyball, or whatever fave sport they followed at PSU. So, that's the context around me referring to "fully funded".
Listen, guys, while getting a better venue is a laudable goal, it won't happen overnight. Priority number 1 is to have a good coach. It may be Chambers, it may be someone else.
Without being intimately familiar with the workings of the Athletic Department, I can't provide specific answers. If there are donors, why haven't they been identified and tapped? In surveying where money is spent in the Athletic Department, there are lots of potential sources.
If I'm the Fat Man, I tell Annie that I want a better basketball program and direct her to come up with how much money it will take and where she's going to get it. And if I get back something like "It's not that simple" she'd better have compelling empirical evidence or she's gone.
