CDT mailbag

[dunkej01]

you should check out Q3 for some recruiting news

http://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article188062704.html

 

[El-Jefe]

Beard grayshirting tells me they're pretty confident in Raptor getting a 6th year.

 

[LemonPie]

Thought maybe he could make 184 for a year, but he's a big dude. Maybe Rasheed will get a 6th as well.

 

[pish69]

Cael always has a plan

 

[slushhead]

Beard grayshirting tells me they're pretty confident in Raptor getting a 6th year.

That, or the s**sh fund is running on fumes.

 

[El-Jefe]

That, or the s**sh fund is running on fumes.

Changing your handle to s**shhead?

 

[slushhead]

Changing your handle to s**shhead?

Don't like going third-person in my posts.

Maybe I'll just change my handle to s**thead. The implication that I run the fund stresses me out too much, and the change would be f*n. I wouldn't have to be accountable for anything. I'd be under less pressure to improve my ranking at home, too.

"What do you expect from me, Honey? You married a s**thead. That's on you."

 

[Tom McAndrew]

you should check out Q3 for some recruiting news

http://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article188062704.html

interesting. I was thinking about his situation last week, and the question about the signed LOI. I remembered that in football recruiting, when LOIs don't get signed, there could be several reasons, but one of the most common reasons, which rarely is disclosed until sometime after signing day, is that the university and the recruit decide that the recruit should grayshirt. I had a suspicion that might be the case with Beard, but didn't have any quick means to verify if PSU wrestling and Beard had made that decision.

El-Jefe, time to make a modification to the future plans for total world domination. As usual, it appears that CS and company were several steps ahead of us in their planning.

 

[NoVa Lion]

you should check out Q3 for some recruiting news

http://www.centredaily.com/sports/college/penn-state-university/psu-wrestling/article188062704.html

That answer makes no sense. Enrolling for the spring semester would STILL use up a year of eligibility so why greyshirt? Greyshirting like that only works for sports like football, that are all in the fall semester.

 

[jack66]

That answer makes no sense. Enrolling for the spring semester would STILL use up a year of eligibility so why greyshirt? Greyshirting like that only works for sports like football, that are all in the fall semester.

That's what I was thinking too. In football, when a player delays enrollment until the winter semester he has already missed the season ... thus he still has 5 years to play 4.

I don't see how that would work in wrestling. Seems to me he would have to delay enrollment until the summer following the 2018-19 season.

That said, I don't understand how Caesar can be listed as a 4th year Soph either, so maybe there are rules specific to wrestling.

 

[ezrahallam]

Many Cornell wrestlers have “gray shirted” over the years because of the Ivy’s restrictions on red shirts. They come in and wrestle for the Finger Lakes Wrestling Club while taking a couple classes (less than would be considered enrolled). Gabe and Max Dean along with Mark Grey come to mind. But those guys didn’t enroll at Cornell for a whole year, not just a semester.

 

[matter7172]

Beard grayshirting tells me they're pretty confident in Raptor getting a 6th year.

If Gravina at Rutgers got a 6th year, Cassar is pretty much a slam dunk to get one. Plus, his situation with missing two consecutive seasons due to an injury is one of the clearest cases I can recall for the extra year.

 

[NoVa Lion]

If Gravina at Rutgers got a 6th year, Cassar is pretty much a slam dunk to get one. Plus, his situation with missing two consecutive seasons due to an injury is one of the clearest cases I can recall for the extra year.

I agree but the NCAA is not consistent about much of anything.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

That answer makes no sense. Enrolling for the spring semester would STILL use up a year of eligibility so why greyshirt? Greyshirting like that only works for sports like football, that are all in the fall semester.

Don't know what Beard's situation will be, but I believe one can greyshirt while enrolled - just have to pay your own way without any financial aid from an athletic scholarship.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Don't know what Beard's situation will be, but I believe one can greyshirt while enrolled - just have to pay your own way without any financial aid from an athletic scholarship.

Once you are enrolled full time the 5 year clock starts so if he enrolls full time for the spring semester it doesn't matter who pays.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Once you are enrolled full time the 5 year clock starts so if he enrolls full time for the spring semester it doesn't matter who pays.

You're correct. The clock would start if he were a full-time student.

If he were enrolled as a part-time student, the clock would not start. My suspicion is that he will delay becoming a full-time student until the summer of 2019, or the fall of 2019, so that his eligibility clock would be the same as those in the 2019 recruiting class.

There use to be restrictions for grayshirts in terms of their ability to practice with the their university teams. I haven't checked recently as to whether they are still in place.

 

[Ja1339]

Beard grayshirting tells me they're pretty confident in Raptor getting a 6th year.

El Jefe, does the 6th year for Raptor mean medical red shirt for 16-17 season and then three more eligible years or two more?

I was thinking he redshirted in 14-15, was injured and not enrolled in 15-16, and in 16-17 he was on the team but still injured. Sorry if this is a dumb question or had already been discussed.

 

[Ja1339]

El Jefe, does the 6th year for Raptor mean medical red shirt for 16-17 season and then three more eligible years or two more?

I was thinking he redshirted in 14-15, was injured and not enrolled in 15-16, and in 16-17 he was on the team but still injured. Sorry if this is a dumb question or had already been discussed.

I Believe one of the later posts answered my question. If Raptors 5 year clock started in his14-15 redshirt season, then it sounds like the 6th year would give him 2 additional seasons after this one, correct?

 

[El-Jefe]

El Jefe, does the 6th year for Raptor mean medical red shirt for 16-17 season and then three more eligible years or two more?

I was thinking he redshirted in 14-15, was injured and not enrolled in 15-16, and in 16-17 he was on the team but still injured. Sorry if this is a dumb question or had already been discussed.

It would mean he's eligible for 2018, 2019, and 2020. How to label each year of his career, I'll leave to the experts.

Caveat that he can't apply for the 6th year until after the 5th year (after March 2019). So we won't know officially until the NCAA rules.

I'm interpreting this as the coaches being confident, but as NoVa said, the NCAA is predictably unpredictable about such things. Just ask Aaron Anspach -- or better yet, don't.

Maybe this is just setting up options. If Cassar gets 6th year, Beard grayshirts, redshirts, starts as a RS FR. If Cassar is done after 5, then Beard grayshirts and starts as a true FR but with a year in the room.

 

[matter7172]

If he gets six years, they would be 14/15, 15/16, 16/17, 17/18, 18/19 and 19/20. So two years after this one. At least that's the way I read it.

 

[matter7172]

Caveat that he can't apply for the 6th year until after the 5th year (after March 2019). So we won't know officially until the NCAA rules.

That's the way I read it also, but Gravina has apparently applied for, and has been granted, his sixth year already. So I have no idea at this point.

 

[El-Jefe]

That's the way I read it also, but Gravina has apparently applied for, and has been granted, his sixth year already. So I have no idea at this point.

Applied under the special Cruiseliner Rules?

 

[jtothemfp]

It would mean he's eligible for 2018, 2019, and 2020. How to label each year of his career, I'll leave to the experts.

Caveat that he can't apply for the 6th year until after the 5th year (after March 2019). So we won't know officially until the NCAA rules.

I'm interpreting this as the coaches being confident, but as NoVa said, the NCAA is predictably unpredictable about such things. Just ask Aaron Anspach -- or better yet, don't.

Maybe this is just setting up options. If Cassar gets 6th year, Beard grayshirts, redshirts, starts as a RS FR. If Cassar is done after 5, then Beard grayshirts and starts as a true FR but with a year in the room.

I struggled with these labels too. Not an expert, but here's what I drew out:

Cassar Eligibility:
2014 Tourney Season: HS SR yr. First time qualifying for NJ states, won state title
2015 Tourney Season (which began in Fall 2014): Enrolled & redshirted during his TRFR year at PSU. Won JR World Trials in April 2015, was set to wrestle JR Worlds in Brazil, but injured shoulder
2016 Tourney Season: RSFR year, enrolled but injured
2017 Tourney Season: Not enrolled at PSU. Elig Clock stopped--or re-awarded, retroactively? Or Via Med RS?
2018 Tourney Season: Competing. SO or JR year, depending
2019 Tourney Season: Competing. JR or SR year, depending
2020 Tourney Season: SR year or no longer eligible, depending

 

[LemonPie]

Somebody claimed Ashnault was granted an extra year as well.... and I have no idea how. He had 18 matches as redshirt.

 

[matter7172]

2016 Tourney Season: RSFR year, enrolled but injured
2017 Tourney Season: Not enrolled at PSU. Elig Clock stopped--or re-awarded, retroactively? Or Via Med RS?

These are the two seasons which would trigger the "medical RS". The clock doesn't stop, but the additional year can be awarded based on the injury taking away two seasons of competition.

 

[NoVa Lion]

I struggled with these labels too. Not an expert, but here's what I drew out:

Cassar Eligibility:
2014 Tourney Season: HS SR yr. First time qualifying for NJ states, won state title
2015 Tourney Season (which began in Fall 2014): Enrolled & redshirted during his TRFR year at PSU. Won JR World Trials in April 2015, was set to wrestle JR Worlds in Brazil, but injured shoulder
2016 Tourney Season: RSFR year, enrolled but injured
2017 Tourney Season: Not enrolled at PSU. Elig Clock stopped--or re-awarded, retroactively? Or Via Med RS?
2018 Tourney Season: Competing. SO or JR year, depending
2019 Tourney Season: Competing. JR or SR year, depending
2020 Tourney Season: SR year or no longer eligible, depending

The eligibility clock does not stop just because you are not enrolled. You have to be in the military, on a religious mission, and I think there are one or two others but can't recall what they are.

 

[Brian LB-U]

Thought maybe he could make 184 for a year, but he's a big dude. Maybe Rasheed will get a 6th as well.

Do you mean big for 184? I actually think Beard looks a bit on the smaller size for 97. But what do I know?

 

[LemonPie]

Do you mean big for 184? I actually think Beard looks a bit on the smaller size for 97. But what do I know?

Yeah, I think 184 would be a decent pull for him. Not completely out of the question, I guess. He could still go 184 as a true freshman.

 

[CholleyVandine]

I struggled with these labels too. Not an expert, but here's what I drew out:

Cassar Eligibility:
2014 Tourney Season: HS SR yr. First time qualifying for NJ states, won state title
2015 Tourney Season (which began in Fall 2014): Enrolled & redshirted during his TRFR year at PSU. Won JR World Trials in April 2015, was set to wrestle JR Worlds in Brazil, but injured shoulder
2016 Tourney Season: RSFR year, enrolled but injured
2017 Tourney Season: Not enrolled at PSU. Elig Clock stopped--or re-awarded, retroactively? Or Via Med RS?
2018 Tourney Season: Competing. SO or JR year, depending
2019 Tourney Season: Competing. JR or SR year, depending
2020 Tourney Season: SR year or no longer eligible, depending

Slight correction on the off-seasons ..

Won the Junior World team spot in 2015, wrestled in Brazil, won his first match by tech fall, and hurt his shoulder in his quarterfinal match against a kid from India. If I remember correctly, he was winning by four or six when he was hurt.

After long rehab, he returned to the mat for the junior world team trials in 2016. He beat Chip Ness in the first round and then reinjured his shoulder and defaulted against Chase Singletary in his second match. That began another long rehab that kept him out of competition until this year.

 

[jtothemfp]

Slight correction on the off-seasons ..

Won the Junior World team spot in 2015, wrestled in Brazil, won his first match by tech fall, and hurt his shoulder in his quarterfinal match against a kid from India. If I remember correctly, he was winning by four or six when he was hurt.

After long rehab, he returned to the mat for the junior world team trials in 2016. He beat Chip Ness in the first round and then reinjured his shoulder and defaulted against Chase Singletary in his second match. That began another long rehab that kept him out of competition until this year.

Excellent, thanks!

 

[RoarLions1]

The eligibility clock does not stop just because you are not enrolled. You have to be in the military, on a religious mission, and I think there are one or two others but can't recall what they are.

(1) Service Exception, (2) Pregnancy (obviously does not apply here), (3) Athletics Activity Exception (Pan Am Games, World Championships, Olympics, etc.), (4) Five-Year Rule Waiver (consists of; Circumstances Beyond Control, and Circumstances Within Control, with a list of both for getting a 6th Year) NOTE: The Five-Year Rule Waiver is what would be applied for to get Anthony a 6th Year.

Then there's the Hardship Waiver, often called a Medical Redshirt. Anthony already had a Redshirt Year, so this is not an option.

Hope that helps...paraphrased a good bit.

 

[GantryZ]

So you can officially attend a school part time and grayshirt? I could have sworn you couldn't be enrolled at all....

From the article:

Nevills could be consider a smaller heavyweight

Nope!

 

[RoarLions1]

You're correct. The clock would start if he were a full-time student.

If he were enrolled as a part-time student, the clock would not start. My suspicion is that he will delay becoming a full-time student until the summer of 2019, or the fall of 2019, so that his eligibility clock would be the same as those in the 2019 recruiting class.

There use to be restrictions for grayshirts in terms of their ability to practice with the their university teams. I haven't checked recently as to whether they are still in place.

I believe "participating in collegiate athletics" occurs if the greyshirt attends a "countable" practice. Appears voluntary workouts are ok...and I'm guessing anything with the NLWC is ok.

 

[nitlion6]

A Cornell grayshirt is somewhat different. Ivy league does not do redshirts as routine. To get a 5 year career at Cornell a kid will take a semester or two off from being a full-time student. While unenrolled the kid will take a part-time load ad workout with the Fingerlakes wrestling club.

 

[El-Jefe]

A Cornell grayshirt is somewhat different. Ivy league does not do redshirts as routine. To get a 5 year career at Cornell a kid will take a semester or two off from being a full-time student. While unenrolled the kid will take a part-time load ad workout with the Fingerlakes wrestling club.

Don't they typically use that time to knock out the Gen Ed requirements at the local community college? So they're not enrolled at Cornell (not sure if that matters to NCAA or Ivy) plus the classes are cheaper and presumably easier.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

You're correct. The clock would start if he were a full-time student.

If he were enrolled as a part-time student, the clock would not start. My suspicion is that he will delay becoming a full-time student until the summer of 2019, or the fall of 2019, so that his eligibility clock would be the same as those in the 2019 recruiting class.

Yeah, that's the part I left out, but what I was trying to get at. Point being, one can still greyshirt while enrolled, provided certain requirements are met.

 

[nitlion6]

Don't they typically use that time to knock out the Gen Ed requirements at the local community college? So they're not enrolled at Cornell (not sure if that matters to NCAA or Ivy) plus the classes are cheaper and presumably easier.

It's an Ivy thing. Basically they give you 8 competitive semesters.

 

[NoVa Lion]

It's an Ivy thing. Basically they give you 8 competitive semesters.

Which don't have to be consecutive. See Steve Bosak.

 

[El-Jefe]

It's an Ivy thing. Basically they give you 8 competitive semesters.

Yeah, I wasn't clear. What I meant was: I know Ivy cares that they're not enrolled at Cornell, not sure if/how much Ivy cares about enrollment and course load at the community college.

 

[Flying_Tiger]

Don't they typically use that time to knock out the Gen Ed requirements at the local community college? So they're not enrolled at Cornell (not sure if that matters to NCAA or Ivy) plus the classes are cheaper and presumably easier.

I don't think Cornell allows part time students, either you are a full time student or you are not allowed to register for any classes. That's why Koll ships them off to the community college. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you can take classes at Penn State (under 12 credits) without being enrolled as a full time student so the clock wouldn't start.