Burroughs drama/Willie wantin' some perspective

[donboy6499]

I think this is a nothing burger that is getting blown out of proportion because everyone is bored.

I am not into moral equivalency, but picture this. Carter rubs people the wrong way, and we all seem to like it. Give him a decade and 7 World/Oly medals and he probably pisses off all non PSU fans on a weekly basis.

The end of any hall of fame career, for the most competitive of competitive beings is always very difficult.

Let's let this one go and move on?

MM is legitimately the happiest dude on Earth. Wrestles hard and high fives dudes on the way back in, even when he gets the lesser end.

If ever there’s an Iowa guy doing the same and any Penn State guy full on slaps the back of his head into the mat for wrestling through a whistle, they should boo the guy out of the arena. I’ll be one of them.

I love how we’re missing the bigger point. An idiot got booed, a good thing happened. Not apologizing.

 

[aalion]

it wasn't one fan. i tweeted that before that incident.

My coach called Cael a cheater!

I told the wrestling world I was going to go after CStar’s injured knee!

I heckled CStar when he went up in weight before the trials!

I lost my cool and shoved Messenbrink at the end of a chippy match in the semis!

Why are PSU fans heckling me after I lost to a PSU wrestler in the finals? I am nothing but a humble, classy, embassador for the sport!!!

 

[El-Jefe]

JB stalls the 2nd half of a chippy match vs Messenbrink, loses his cool and shoves MM at the end.

His returns to center in the 1st period were just as bad.

 

[PD4thespawn]

Isn’t smalls an Iowa fan?

He's their new recruiting coordinator if jb becomes head coach.

 

[smalls103]

fwiw i didn't start this thread. idk how that happened or who did it.

i'll respond later after wrestling.

but the bottom line is - and i posted this several times - it is NOT simply about yesterday or Jordan Burroughs.

i tweeted twice that the MM-JB shenanigans was a nothing burger.

but for the mouthbreathers here acting like Mitchell was an innocent bystander, get real.

y'all are getting cultish.

what's interesting (and very apparent) is that these posts are coming from the group of usual, consistent posters, but a bunch of fair weather randos

 

[El-Jefe]

fwiw i didn't start this thread. idk how that happened or who did it.

i'll respond later after wrestling.

but the bottom line is - and i posted this several times - it is NOT simply about yesterday or Jordan Burroughs.

i tweeted twice that the MM-JB shenanigans was a nothing burger.

but for the mouthbreathers here acting like Mitchell was an innocent bystander, get real.

y'all are getting cultish.

what's interesting (and very apparent) is that these posts are coming from the group of usual, consistent posters, but a bunch of fair weather randos

Not opening any minds by slurring people here now (or at all) while saying "I'll talk about it later."

 

[smalls103]

Nebby.

But he's next in line at Iowa as their lead recruiter, replacing Bobby Telford.
#WillieHawk

yeah. sure.

that's why i've been called 'penn state willie' for a decade.

that's why Tom Brands yelled at me because he knew 'i was on the psu payroll.

or maybe i'm just being impartial and calling it as i see it.

 

[smalls103]

Not opening any minds by slurring people here now (or at all) while saying "I'll talk about it later."

1) idc what you guys think
2) the olympic trials finals are about to start bud.
3) would it better if i said i'd spit on your face, or piss on your grave?

 

[El-Jefe]

1) idc what you guys think
2) the olympic trials finals are about to start bud.
3) would it better if i said i'd spit on your face, or piss on your grave?

Look, you know I've been a fan of yours for a couple decades. No need for the attitude.

If you don't care what we think, then why are you so hell-bent on telling us what to think?

And yes: just wait to say it later when you have time. And try to do it without the insults. Be the bigger man.

 

[aalion]

fwiw i didn't start this thread. idk how that happened or who did it.

i'll respond later after wrestling.

but the bottom line is - and i posted this several times - it is NOT simply about yesterday or Jordan Burroughs.

i tweeted twice that the MM-JB shenanigans was a nothing burger.

but for the mouthbreathers here acting like Mitchell was an innocent bystander, get real.

y'all are getting cultish.

what's interesting (and very apparent) is that these posts are coming from the group of usual, consistent posters, but a bunch of fair weather randos

“Fair weather rando???”

Season ticket holder, haven’t missed a match (either in person, radio, or TV) in decades, literally have listened to Byers from London and Paris and Epcot and Switzerland and … starting w Sonny Abe’s national championship final when I got addicted to Ironhead. Became a wrestling fan when Dad took me to Wilkes wrestling in 1970s.

Throw stones (you or JB or Manning) and expect to get them thrown back.

 

[aalion]

yeah. sure.

that's why i've been called 'penn state willie' for a decade.

that's why Tom Brands yelled at me because he knew 'i was on the psu payroll.

or maybe i'm just being impartial and calling it as i see it.

You are not being impartial if you only tell half the story … and you only told (at most) half the story. Left out all of JBs and Mannings classless BS

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

fwiw i didn't start this thread. idk how that happened or who did it

Either you were hacked or a moderator moved something you posted out of its original thread, I would hazard to guess.

 

[smalls103]

well, the funny thing is, you guys are on here ripping me.

what's it have to do w/ me?

the entire wrestling media universe is/was talking about it. i just happen to agree with them.

 

[mcpat]

3) would it better if i said i'd spit on your face, or piss on your grave?

1) He wrote “graveyard”; not grave. I’m sure he’d avoid all graves. Out of respect.

2) Carter can be a &@$!. But he’s our &@$!. Do you expect us to boo our own guy?

Yes: we’re homers. So is every other fanbase.

 

[smalls103]

You are not being impartial if you only tell half the story … and you only told (at most) half the story. Left out all of JBs and Mannings classless BS

how many times does it have to be made clear it's not all about yesterday.

i've been to dozens of home duals. and way so many out of bounds comments are made it's borderline uncomfortable.

Rec and Carver. the only places ive seen that behavior consistently.

 

[billrag]

1) He wrote “graveyard”; not grave. I’m sure he’d avoid all graves. Out of respect.

2) Carter can be a &@$!. But he’s our &@$!. Do you expect us to boo our own guy?

Yes: we’re homers. So is every other fanbase.

That's not entirely how it works for me. When a PSU athlete or fan says something boorish or stupid, I'm more than happy to call him/her/them out on my own and I don't mind when someone else does it (within context and acknowledging that by and large, the PSU wrestlers and coaches are a bunch of choir boys compared to some of what we see out there). Not sure if I always live by these rules, but I try to be consistent and fair for all sides.

And, for the purposes of THIS discussion, I really see nothing wrong with anything Mesenbrink did yesterday (as someone else said, if he hangs on an ankle for an extra second while smiling and slapping his opponent on the back, I can certainly live with that) and I DO have a problem with some of the stuff that Burroughs and Manning did. Nobody can believe that Mesenbrink is anything other than a happy go lucky kid that really loves being out there and loves competing against EVERYONE. I've never seen him do anything questionable or unsportsmanlike and he's always apologetic if he accidentally pokes someone, hangs on for a second too long out of bounds, etc.. And, just as surely, nobody can believe that Burroughs didn't act a bit like a chump yesterday (not to mention Manning's schtick). And, all of that said, I agree with Smalls and many others who say that it's much ado about nothing and not worth pages of discussion or argument.

I felt largely the same way about what Burroughs said at NCAAs and the ongoing battle with Bo and Carter. I thought it was a dumb/questionable thing to say, but it wasn't off the charts ridiculous or mean-spirited and I don't think it was worth all of the attention that everyone in the wrestling world placed upon it. I was willing to give Burroughs a pass for saying something off the cuff and people absolutely should give PSU fans a pass given that ONE PERSON said something that was dumb, but not really hateful or threatening in any way (not to mention that Manning and Burroughs were giving it back to the crowd and that we don't positively know that the person even was a PSU fan). I don't go to every home dual, but I've been to many dozens of them over the years and other than stupid stuff, I haven't seen any hateful, racist or threatening stuff at Rec Hall or Bryce Jordan and if I did, I'd positively call out the person doing so.

 

[smalls103]

1) He wrote “graveyard”; not grave. I’m sure he’d avoid all graves. Out of respect.

2) Carter can be a &@$!. But he’s our &@$!. Do you expect us to boo our own guy?

Yes: we’re homers. So is every other fanbase.

no one has been more supportive of Carter than me. from before he committed to right up to today.

i'm not ragging on him. but to cite his back and forth with JB as a out to be classless is pretty rich.

 

[mcpat]

Let’s grow the sport by insulting new fans and pointing out how much they don’t know.

 

[aalion]

how many times does it have to be made clear it's not all about yesterday.

i've been to dozens of home duals. and way so many out of bounds comments are made it's borderline uncomfortable.

Rec and Carver. the only places ive seen that behavior consistently.

It’s not all about yesterday …. But you didn’t say jack shit about it until… wait for it… yesterday.

If the behavior was so uncomfortable you sure as hell would have and should have said something long before now. You are simply backtracking ….

JDen Cox was hated by PSU fans after David Taylor literally wiped the floor w him and lost anyway. Yet somehow those evil PSU fans managed to give him a standing ovation last night.

 

[smalls103]

Do you expect us to boo our own guy?

here's part of it too -

no, i don't expect you to cheer anyone or boo anyone, or show grace to anyone.

what i would hope to expect is that decent people would just not shout the crap they do.

 

[donboy6499]

His returns to center in the 1st period were just as bad.

“Just an old wily wrestler, frustrating the younger bucks into mental mistakes like shoving their own faces into the mat on a dead whistle”

 

[PSU James]

His returns to center in the 1st period were just as bad.

Yes I found this hilarious. They reset at center but Messenbrink gets up quick and is ready to go at center. Burroughs kneels, adjusts his left sock then decides he wants to stand wear MM is so he pushes MM’s rear forward but MM does not budge. He trys it again and again MM does not budge. Finally the funniest part is JB gave up pushing MM and lined up directly behind MM facing the same way. Just a few inches behind MM both facing the same way. Almost like he was going to give him the heimlich manuever. The ref was confused, MM was confused, but with JB’s sock appropriately adjusted MM turned 180 degrees and they could restart the match.

 

[smalls103]

It’s not all about yesterday …. But you didn’t say jack shit about it until… wait for it… yesterday.

If the behavior was so uncomfortable you sure as hell would have and should have said something long before now. You are simply backtracking ….

JDen Cox was hated by PSU fans after David Taylor literally wiped the floor w him and lost anyway. Yet somehow those evil PSU fans managed to give him a standing ovation last night.

i've commented on the horrible things ive heard at REC and Carver several times over the years.

 

[smalls103]

“Just an old wily wrestler, frustrating the younger bucks into mental mistakes like shoving their own faces into the mat on a dead whistle”

are you being for real rn?

you didn't notice Mitchell's constant antics? tell me with a straight face that nothing happened prior to that.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

This whole issue is nothing but click bait.

There are idiots and poor sports in every crowd.

And some of them are highly decorated competitors,

 

[mcpat]

here's part of it too -

no, i don't expect you to cheer anyone or boo anyone, or show grace to anyone.

what i would hope to expect is that decent people would just not shout the crap they do.

That’s fair.

 

[5q]

I wish Dana white was running this weekend
He would tell Willie and anyone ends to piss off
This is nothing

 

[donboy6499]

here's part of it too -

no, i don't expect you to cheer anyone or boo anyone, or show grace to anyone.

what i would hope to expect is that decent people would just not shout the crap they do.

Imagine if the fan said something more than what Tom Brady heard in every visiting stadium from 2015 on. Or God forbid used a slur.

I would hope decent people wouldn’t go into the stands and punch lights out of the paying customer.

 

[smalls103]

Can we not be better than that?

i keep seeing 'but what about fans in other sports? geez you're soft'

how about we just be better humans?

 

[donboy6499]

are you being for real rn?

you didn't notice Mitchell's constant antics? tell me with a straight face that nothing happened prior to that.

And had JB given the head shots back inside the whistles, I’m all in. That is legit tough wrestling (Tom Brands would be proud).

Dead whistle? Nah. Come on. If your excusing it, ask yourself why it doesn’t happen more Willie. Because it’s not cool and just can’t restrain themselves.

 

[donboy6499]

Can we not be better than that?

i keep seeing 'but what about fans in other sports? geez you're soft'

how about we just be better humans?

Well I agree with that. I wouldn’t yell it.

But it didn’t cross a line either. And no one says a word about it on either side if you all don’t tweet it to the minions putting all psu fans in a light

 

[smalls103]

i'll tell you guys right now, i've heard horrible, horrible things in REC and BJC.

the worst was seeing a whole section really ragging on an opposing wrestler's mother.

it was uncomfortable and unconscionable.

and it wasn't isolated. even at PSU Opens over a decade ago.

and i've said the same thing on HR a few years back.

I was next to Mark Hall when there were racial stuff being shouted. i talked to him about it afterward.

it's obviously not the entire fan base, but the good ones need to discourage the crap.

 

[mcpat]

no one has been more supportive of Carter than me. from before he committed to right up to today.

i'm not ragging on him. but to cite his back and forth with JB as a out to be classless is pretty rich.

If it was just Carter; okay. But it has been Dake, Carter, Bo and now Mitchell too. There is no excuse for specific classless comments. But booing a guy that fake adjusts his socks at every whistle isn’t indicative of a classless fanbase. That’s indicative of a rabid fanbase.

 

[smalls103]

And had JB given the head shots back inside the whistles, I’m all in. That is legit tough wrestling (Tom Brands would be proud).

Dead whistle? Nah. Come on. If your excusing it, ask yourself why it doesn’t happen more Willie. Because it’s not cool and just can’t restrain themselves.

you are aware that MM facemushed Burroughs (who was on his knees out of bounds) long before Jordan did what he did, right ?

 

[smalls103]

about to watch finals.

i'll say my peace on the show with Basch (who also disparaged the fans' behavior, btw) tomorrow.

 

[PSUer1989]

here's part of it too -

no, i don't expect you to cheer anyone or boo anyone, or show grace to anyone.

what i would hope to expect is that decent people would just not shout the crap they do.

“Decent” people don’t go off on an entire fan base for something one person yelled. JB and Manning have been very open in their dislike for PSU, it is not surprising many of us have little respect for either of them at this point. One can be an incredible athlete and still not be respected due to comments, behavior etc

 

[smalls103]

Mitch-Burroughs

click it

 

[aalion]

JB: “I am going after Carter’s injured knee”

CStar: “I am going to end JB’s career”

JB: “haha you won’t end my career wrestling up a weight!”

Nolf (probably) ends JB’s career after JB gets into a shoving match with Messenbrink.

PSU fan: “your career is over!”

Willie: “why are PSU fans being so boorish to a classy guy like JB??? How dare they?…”

 

[donboy6499]

you are aware that MM facemushed Burroughs (who was on his knees out of bounds) long before Jordan did what he did, right ?

Then I take back that part of the discussion, don’t believe I saw it so blatantly (still don’t think it was so blatant as JB).

Doesnt change the fact that wrestling media severely overreacted last night, as did Team JB.

 

[LemonPie]

What a ****ing joke. So, not only did Penn State invent wrestling in 2010, but they also invented sports heckling in 2024. Grow up. Imagine trying to get sympathy from LeBron James or Pat Mahomes here.

Tired of being told who I can root for. Olympics or not, it's an individual sport. Anyone who says the Olympics are about country before individual is a liar. I've rooted for Burroughs and I've rooted against him. I've pulled for USA wrestling in the majority of cases, but I won't hesitate to pull for Turkmenistan should they land in Spencer Lee's path. Excuse me for enjoying Kyle Dake's reign, but if you remember correctly, the last Olympic match JB wrestled in, he quit.