BOMBSHELL: Exculpatory Evidence Removed From Schultz File

[francofan]

So if PSU reports the incident to CYS and the police (and revokes The Grinning Baboon's campus privileges; just thought I'd throw that in for good measure), what does the OAG concoct and what are the charges against The Three Stooges?

The OAG doesn't concoct anything because there was nothing to concoct. Corbett was given an opportunity to exact a vendetta and he seized the opportunity.

I assume that you are referring to Tim Curley, Graham Spanier, and Gary Schultz as the three stooges. I first heard of the three administrators called the three stoges on Pennlive and I take exception to that characterization. Tim, Graham, and Gary are good men who were victimized by Corbett and the OAG. Graham will be the first to be exonerated, but I believe that Tim and Gary will also eventually be exonerated.

 

[indynittany]

So if PSU reports the incident to CYS and the police (and revokes The Grinning Baboon's campus privileges; just thought I'd throw that in for good measure), what does the OAG concoct and what are the charges against The Three Stooges?

Conversely, if the OAG does not concoct the anal intercourse report, revoking Jerry's guest privileges and reporting the matter to Jack Raykovitz would have been a perfectly reasonable response.

I think it's important to factor in the motivation of the OAG to focus everyone's attention on PSU, rather than TSM.

 

[Art]

You are absolutely correct, but you are also working in hindsight. In 2001 very, yes VERY, few people would report anyone to CYS if they were not absolutely positive of what happened. It wasn't until around 2005 and onward, thanks to the Catholic Church scandals, that most people got child abuse training (constantly) and learned to report any and all abnormalities to the police. By the time of the trial in 2012 it was, for intensive purposes, common sense to call the police.

I don't think so. Spanier (we'll leave Curley and Schultz out of it because anything more complicated than ordering lunch was above their pay grade) had an ironclad responsibility to protect the institution. So he has a report of The Grinning Baboon showering with a kid on campus when few are around. What does he do? What lots of people in his position with his background do: get complicated resulting in paralysis by analysis.

The KISS Doctrine would have immediately caused him to realize that he can't have middle-aged men cavorting naked with kids on his campus regardless of what else might be going on. Rather than analyzing it, he should have disposed of it. How? Call the police and CYS and have them analyze it and revoke all of Jerry's on campus privileges.

 

[nits74]

What a stupid thread. Bombshell. Enough already. I don’t see it on any site other than “truth”.
Don’t see the email either. Stop with the nonsense. Court of opinion with people is that paterno and psu covered it up. Period!

Yet even the most corrupt court system in America couldn't get a conviction on this, could they?

 

[Connorpozlee]

Based on the evidence, the action to contact CYS occurred on February 11 or 12, 2001 when Courtney advised Schultz on how to respond. Curley was not in the loop on the discussion.

If I recall this correctly, they spoke with Courtney before speaking with McQueary. Is that correct?

 

[psuro]

What a stupid thread. Bombshell. Enough already. I don’t see it on any site other than “truth”.
Don’t see the email either. Stop with the nonsense. Court of opinion with people is that paterno and psu covered it up. Period!

I can refute your last statement based on "people" also.

 

[Art]

I can refute your last statement based on "people" also.

I wanna know what dogs think.

 

[Wesauking Lion]

Working on it.

Ray... if you produce the document.... it will be the Fat Man of the case. Keep Hammering it.

 

[RussianEagle]

I think that the lasting damage to PSU came from the Freeh Report and its direct accusations against Paterno, PSU Football, and the community (and the related fallout from the NCAA sanctions). If PSU had worked to keep the report restricted to the criminal charges involving Curley and Shultz (i.e. the administration), the damage would have been far less in the long run. PSU allowed (and I believe instructed) Freeh to speculate about Paterno and the football program, which made the story 1000x more salacious than it should have been.

Clearly the BoT was afraid of something. What? Who knows...potential criminal liability for themselves, wrongful termination lawsuit from Paterno, skeletons in their own closets, etc.

That question is the one that I would like answered in my lifetime. There was very little reason to drag Paterno and the football program into this whole thing if the OAG did not feel that Paterno's actions (or lack thereof) rose to the level of criminal liability.

I think the whole purpose of the BOT for commissioning Freeh was to cover their asses after hastily firing Paterno, especially after Joe did a month later and the public was becoming more sympathetic to him.

 

[MtNittany]

I don't think so. Spanier (we'll leave Curley and Schultz out off it because anything more complicated than ordering lunch was above their pay grade) had an ironclad responsibility to protect the institution. So he has a report of The Grinning Baboon showering with a kid on campus when few are around. What does he do? What lots of people in his position with his background do: get complicated resulting in paralysis by analysis.

The KISS Doctrine would have immediately caused him to realize that he can't have middle-aged men cavorting naked with kids on his campus regardless of what else might be going on. Rather than analyzing it, he should have disposed of it. How? Call the police and CYS and have them analyze it and revoke all of Jerry's on campus privileges.

I think you left out an over-used, non-applicable, lousy corporate metaphor or two in this post. You got all the name calling and unwarranted character assassination in there though.

 

[nits74]

I wanna know what dogs think.

Safe to say their opinion may be, at the very least, as equally informed.

 

[Art]

I think you left out an over-used, non-applicable, lousy corporate metaphor or two in this post. You got all the name calling and unwarranted character assassination in there though.

No character to assassinate. Nice to know that at least one person thinks that Spanier had no responsibility to protect PSU. Actually, you have company

 

[francofan]

No character to assassinate. Nice to know that at least one person thinks that Spanier had no responsibility to protect PSU. Actually, you have company

The key entity that had the responsibility to protect the University when TSHTF was the Penn State Board of Trustees and they failed miserably.

Graham Spanier stood up for Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, 2 individuals that he knew to be good men.

I agree with Malcolm Gladwell's sentiments concerning Spanier and quote his book Talking to Strangers on pages 141-142:

"Tim Curley and Gary Schultz were charged first. Two of the most important officials at one of the most prestigious state universities in the United State were placed under arrest. Spanier called his senior staff together for an emotional meeting. He considered Penn State to be a big family. These were his friends. When he was told the shower incident was probably just horseplay, he believed the were honest.

'You're going to find that everyone is going to distane themselves from Gary and Tim,' he said. But he would not.

Every one of you in here has worked with Tim and Gary for years. Some of you for thirty-five or fourty years, because that's how long Tim and Gary, respectively, were at the university....You've worked with them every day of your life, and I have for the last sixteen years.... If any of you operate according to how we have always agreed to operate at this university -- honestly, openly, with integrity, always doing what's in the best interest of the university -- if you were falsely accused of something, I would do the same thing for any of you in here. I want you to know that....None of [you] should ever fear doing the right thing, or being accused of wrongdoing, when [you] knew [you] were doing the right thing....because this university would back them up. *

This is why people liked Graham Spanier. It's why he had such a brillant career at Penn State. It is why you and I would want to work for him. We want Graham Spanier as our President -- not Harry Markopolos, armed to the teeth, waiting for a squad of government bureaucrats to burst through the front door.

This is the first of the ideas to keep in mind when considering the death of Sandra Bland. We think we want our guardians to be alert to every suspicion. We blame them when they default to the truth. When we try to send people like Graham Spanier to jail, we send a message to all of those in the position of authority about the way we want them to make sense of strangers -- without stopping to consider the consequences of sending that message."

* - This is not a literal transcription of what Spanier said, but rather a paraphrase, based on his recollections.

 

[Art]

The key entity that had the responsibility to protect the University when TSHTF was the Penn State Board of Trustees and they failed miserably.

Graham Spanier stood up for Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, 2 individuals that he knew to be good men.

I agree with Malcolm Gladwell's sentiments concerning Spanier and quote his book Talking to Strangers on pages 141-142:

"Tim Curley and Gary Schultz were charged first. Two of the most important officials at one of the most prestigious state universities in the United State were placed under arrest. Spanier called his senior staff together for an emotional meeting. He considered Penn State to be a big family. These were his friends. When he was told the shower incident was probably just horseplay, he believed the were honest.

'You're going to find that everyone is going to distane themselves from Gary and Tim,' he said. But he would not.

Every one of you in here has worked with Tim and Gary for years. Some of you for thirty-five or fourty years, because that's how long Tim and Gary, respectively, were at the university....You've worked with them every day of your life, and I have for the last sixteen years.... If any of you operate according to how we have always agreed to operate at this university -- honestly, openly, with integrity, always doing what's in the best interest of the university -- if you were falsely accused of something, I would do the same thing for any of you in here. I want you to know that....None of [you] should ever fear doing the right thing, or being accused of wrongdoing, when [you] knew [you] were doing the right thing....because this university would back them up. *

This is why people liked Graham Spanier. It's why he had such a brillant career at Penn State. It is why you and I would want to work for him. We want Graham Spanier as our President -- not Harry Markopolos, armed to the teeth, waiting for a squad of government bureaucrats to burst through the front door.

This is the first of the ideas to keep in mind when considering the death of Sandra Bland. We think we want our guardians to be alert to every suspicion. We blame them when they default to the truth. When we try to send people like Graham Spanier to jail, we send a message to all of those in the position of authority about the way we want them to make sense of strangers -- without stopping to consider the consequences of sending that message."

* - This is not a literal transcription of what Spanier said, but rather a paraphrase, based on his recollections.

Yes, the Board failed in it's responsibility, but if Spanier had fulfilled his it most likely never gets that far.

 

[razpsu]

I can refute your last statement based on "people" also.

Refute what. That you can’t wear your Psu shirt outside of state college without a look or comment about paterno is guilty and everyone knew. Forgone conclusion with 90 percent of the public. Narrative has been set! Psu did nothing about it when they could have.

 

[MtNittany]

No character to assassinate. Nice to know that at least one person thinks that Spanier had no responsibility to protect PSU. Actually, you have company

You would have been a great interview for freeh's group. You could have backed up vicky's fantasies w/ real life gossip, innuendo, and unfounded assumptions.

 

[07mantle]

Refute what. That you can’t wear your Psu shirt outside of state college without a look or comment about paterno is guilty and everyone knew. Forgone conclusion with 90 percent of the public. Narrative has been set! Psu did nothing about it when they could have.

well I can say that has not been my experience and I have traveled a fair amount and have no issue wearing anything Penn State .. and proudly

 

[razpsu]

We went to Minnesota game and a student that we met Friday night had a shirt made about it and showed us. He was so proud of it. We had to educate him that don’t believe everything you hear. Think about it he was 11- 12 when this came out.

 

[Art]

You would have been a great interview for freeh's group. You could have backed up vicky's fantasies w/ real life gossip, innuendo, and unfounded assumptions.

Clueless.

 

[rmb297]

FrancoFan already responded to most of this, but one thing I must add is why does it matter whether or not Allan actually typed the letter to the editor? You are acting like Jerry held a gun to his head and made him sign. The truth is Allan wanted to help, Jerry gave him Gary Grey’s number, Allan was a poor writer so he told Gary the information and Gary typed the letter, then Allan signed it. What’s indisputable is that by signing the letter and mailing it to the OAG and several newspapers, Allen agreed 100% with the letters contents and was very passionate about sharing that information.

I've blocked francofan, so I have no clue about his response.

BTW, I've met him. Nice guy, well meaning, but overly willing to rely on irrelevant and unsubstantiated information to support arguments while completely dismissing facts that don't support the argument.

More to the point, what would a jury decide about AM's escapade with the letter to the editor (and his other fibs)? Would they consider him a credible witness or not?

The Commonwealth and the defense teams provided that answer when they decided he wasn't credible to be put on the witness stand 2012.

Seems the only people who think AM is credible is Andrew Shubin, Penn State's money machine operators, and the Justice for Jerry squad.

 

[Kiber]

Don't BOMBSHELLS make noise and have some kind of an impact on something?

If a bombshell went off in the forest but no one heard it, then did the bombshell really go off?

 

[Kiber]

I think that the lasting damage to PSU came from the Freeh Report and its direct accusations against Paterno, PSU Football, and the community (and the related fallout from the NCAA sanctions). If PSU had worked to keep the report restricted to the criminal charges involving Curley and Shultz (i.e. the administration), the damage would have been far less in the long run. PSU allowed (and I believe instructed) Freeh to speculate about Paterno and the football program, which made the story 1000x more salacious than it should have been.

Clearly the BoT was afraid of something. What? Who knows...potential criminal liability for themselves, wrongful termination lawsuit from Paterno, skeletons in their own closets, etc.

That question is the one that I would like answered in my lifetime. There was very little reason to drag Paterno and the football program into this whole thing if the OAG did not feel that Paterno's actions (or lack thereof) rose to the level of criminal liability.

The BOT are the ones who paid for & sanctioned the Freeh Report. It was not required. It was 100% voluntary. No one was requiring PSU to engage the services of an outside firm to run an independent investigation. The BOT got exactly what they paid for.

 

[Kiber]

I think that the lasting damage to PSU came from the Freeh Report and its direct accusations against Paterno, PSU Football, and the community (and the related fallout from the NCAA sanctions). If PSU had worked to keep the report restricted to the criminal charges involving Curley and Shultz (i.e. the administration), the damage would have been far less in the long run. PSU allowed (and I believe instructed) Freeh to speculate about Paterno and the football program, which made the story 1000x more salacious than it should have been.

Clearly the BoT was afraid of something. What? Who knows...potential criminal liability for themselves, wrongful termination lawsuit from Paterno, skeletons in their own closets, etc.

That question is the one that I would like answered in my lifetime. There was very little reason to drag Paterno and the football program into this whole thing if the OAG did not feel that Paterno's actions (or lack thereof) rose to the level of criminal liability.

"That question is the one that I would like answered in my lifetime. There was very little reason to drag Paterno and the football program into this whole thing if the OAG did not feel that Paterno's actions (or lack thereof) rose to the level of criminal liability."

^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^

People tend to forget, but shortly after this whole JS thing broke, Paterno was still viewed as an icon. I remember ESPN ... of all networks ... running an all-day airing of his funeral. Joe's funeral was covered all day live by ESPN and they had non-stop guests on air talking about their relationships with Joe and his virtues... Coach K, Urban Meyer, Nick Saban.... it was a "who's who" list of coaches, players, celebrities speaking on behalf of Joe.

Then the BOT solicited Freeh. Gave Freeh his agenda outline, and Joe's name was ruined probably forever.

 

[didier]

If I recall this correctly, they spoke with Courtney before speaking with McQueary. Is that correct?

Correct.

 

[francofan]

I've blocked francofan, so I have no clue about his response.

BTW, I've met him. Nice guy, well meaning, but overly willing to rely on irrelevant and unsubstantiated information to support arguments while completely dismissing facts that don't support the argument.

More to the point, what would a jury decide about AM's escapade with the letter to the editor (and his other fibs)? Would they consider him a credible witness or not?

The Commonwealth and the defense teams provided that answer when they decided he wasn't credible to be put on the witness stand 2012.

Seems the only people who think AM is credible is Andrew Shubin, Penn State's money machine operators, and the Justice for Jerry squad.

Bury you head in the sand if you want Ray. That is fine by me. I can teach you a trick. If by chance you want to see a post by somebody you have on ignore, you can click on show ignored content and see what they have to say.

Serious researchers/investigators who have looked at this case have concluded that AM is v2. These include Mark Pendergrast, John Snedden, Ralph Cipriano, Malcolm Gladwell, John Ziegler, Fred Crews, Carol Tavris, John Odermatt, Joseph Stains, Jeff Byers, and many others.

The only serious researchers/investigators that feel either v2 is not AM or is known only to God are yourself, Joe McGettigan, and Frank Fina. You have all stated the same basic reasons for that questionable belief, including that AM is his statement to Everhart said the date of the incident was March 2, 2002, that AM was unable to provide a detailed layout of the Lasch building locker room, and that AM isn't credible because he has provided contradictory accounts of what happened in the shower.

Once again, AM in his statement to Everhart was reacting to the date in the grand jury presentment (March 2, 2002) and he knew he was the boy in the shower as Sandusky had told him contemporaneously (10 years earlier) that Penn State was looking into the incident and may be calling him. I believe it is reasonable that AM doesn't remember the layout of the locker room from 10 years before his statement when he was 13 years old. In addition, when someone flips, they often times have provided different accounts of what happened and you need to ascertain which is more credible. Imo, the statement AM provided to Everhart was an order of magnitude more credible that what he said after he retained the services of Andrew Shubin and was looking for a settlement from Penn State.

By the way Mr. Fact Check, the 14 errors that you claimed you identified in the Sandusky Feb. 2019 press conference are all very questionable as I demonstrated in the comments. I see you removed my name from the comments and I am now "unknown." You know who I am and if you would take your head out of the sand, you would know who v2 is as well.

http://notpsu.blogspot.com/2019/02/sandusky-presser-was-full-of-errors.html

 

[indynittany]

I don't think so. Spanier (we'll leave Curley and Schultz out of it because anything more complicated than ordering lunch was above their pay grade) had an ironclad responsibility to protect the institution. So he has a report of The Grinning Baboon showering with a kid on campus when few are around. What does he do? What lots of people in his position with his background do: get complicated resulting in paralysis by analysis.

The KISS Doctrine would have immediately caused him to realize that he can't have middle-aged men cavorting naked with kids on his campus regardless of what else might be going on. Rather than analyzing it, he should have disposed of it. How? Call the police and CYS and have them analyze it and revoke all of Jerry's on campus privileges.

Jerry "cavorting naked with kids on his campus" was authorized by the university as part of Jerry's retirement package and against JVP's wishes.

The issue wasn't Jerry inviting TSM kids to use the PSU facilities and then showering with them afterwards. The issue was Jerry and TSM kids using the facilities alone, where there could be a he said/he said scenario.

 

[Art]

Jerry "cavorting naked with kids on his campus" was authorized by the university as part of Jerry's retirement package and against JVP's wishes.

The issue wasn't Jerry inviting TSM kids to use the PSU facilities and then showering with them afterwards. The issue was Jerry and TSM kids using the facilities alone, where there could be a he said/he said scenario.

I really doubt that when The Grinning Baboon was granted access to campus anyone envisaged that he would be showering with a kid when (virtually) no one was around. That Spanier did effectively nothing when the incident was reported to him was gross malfeasance, not necessarily criminal, but malfeasance nonetheless.

 

[indynittany]

I really doubt that when The Grinning Baboon was granted access to campus anyone envisaged that he would be showering with a kid when (virtually) no one was around. That Spanier did effectively nothing when the incident was reported to him was gross malfeasance, not necessarily criminal, but malfeasance nonetheless.

He did exactly what he should have done. He revoked Jerry's guest privileges and he informed the head of TSM, who had responsibility for both Jerry and the young man.

 

[Grant Green]

I really doubt that when The Grinning Baboon was granted access to campus anyone envisaged that he would be showering with a kid when (virtually) no one was around. That Spanier did effectively nothing when the incident was reported to him was gross malfeasance, not necessarily criminal, but malfeasance nonetheless.

A complete failure in risk management. While Spanier may have considered the probability of Jerry's guilt to be low, he should have realized that the risk to PSU was extremely high. One report to CYS and/or police and PSU's culpability is so much lower (not to mentioned fewer victims).

 

[kentuckycb]

"That question is the one that I would like answered in my lifetime. There was very little reason to drag Paterno and the football program into this whole thing if the OAG did not feel that Paterno's actions (or lack thereof) rose to the level of criminal liability."

^^^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^

People tend to forget, but shortly after this whole JS thing broke, Paterno was still viewed as an icon. I remember ESPN ... of all networks ... running an all-day airing of his funeral. Joe's funeral was covered all day live by ESPN and they had non-stop guests on air talking about their relationships with Joe and his virtues... Coach K, Urban Meyer, Nick Saban.... it was a "who's who" list of coaches, players, celebrities speaking on behalf of Joe.

Then the BOT solicited Freeh. Gave Freeh his agenda outline, and Joe's name was ruined probably forever.

Exactly...the BoT made a conscious decision after Joe died to allow Freeh to speculate about Joe's involvement/motivations, the football program, the community, etc.

Why?

The BoT had to know what kind of storm Freeh's speculations would cause...all of the residual damage. And for what? Joe was dead when Freeh released his findings (mostly speculations). Any wrongful termination suit (if the estate could even file one), was small potatoes at that point.

So again, why? Why did it make sense to the BoT to drag PSU further through the mud with further speculations?

I could even see letting Freeh discuss Spanier since he was still alive etc. But why Joe too?

 

[nits74]

If I recall, Freeh didn't interview Spanier until very late in the process. Like after his report was completed? Why?

 

[Connorpozlee]

If I recall, Freeh didn't interview Spanier until very late in the process. Like after his report was completed? Why?

It was at Spanier’s request, wasn’t it? Freeh had no intent on speaking to anybody directly involved.

 

[MtNittany]

It was at Spanier’s request, wasn’t it?

No.

 

[nits74]

It was at Spanier’s request, wasn’t it? Freeh has no intent on speaking to anybody directly involved.

Point is, how can he conduct a fair review without talking to those involved? Pretty telling from my view point.

 

[interrobang]

Freeh didn't even attempt to speak to Paterno before his death, either.

 

[francofan]

If I recall, Freeh didn't interview Spanier until very late in the process. Like after his report was completed? Why?

Freeh wasn’t interested in what Spanier had to say. He had marching orders from his client (PSU BOT) and that was to vilify Spanier.

 

[nits74]

Freeh wasn’t interested in what Spanier had to say. He had marching orders from his client (PSU BOT) and that was to vilify Spanier.

And his marching orders involved exclusion of key figures, and intimidation tactics with those he did interview who weren't following the company line.

 

[Connorpozlee]

No.

No? I thought Spanier had to reach out to Freeh’s group to be interviewed. And at that, it was only a week or so before the release of the report. What’s the correct story?

 

[Connorpozlee]

Point is, how can he conduct a fair review without talking to those involved? Pretty telling from my view point.

Of course. A fair review was never the purpose of the Freeh report.

 

[Art]

He did exactly what he should have done. He revoked Jerry's guest privileges and he informed the head of TSM, who had responsibility for both Jerry and the young man.

Too much to ask of him to let his fingers do the walking to the police and CYS, too? That's what happens when someone is too smart for his own good.