ADVERTISEMENT

BOMBSHELL: Exculpatory Evidence Removed From Schultz File

I know it sounds weird but what exactly were they reporting?

I, Graham S, although I am NOT a Mandated reporter, am reporting that I heard "6th hand knowledge" of "horseplay". Please keep in mind that if that is what was reported absolutely NOTHING would have been done.

And I know this is going to sound the totally illogical but they truly wouldn't have had CYA because in the case that nothing is done it truly is like nothing happened. It's expunged - nada, nothing, zippo, zilch.

That 'system', like it or not, is intended to protect BOTH the accuser and "accused".
* so the next point that is typically made is, "They would have had a record of it" - not necessarily true because once the report is made and nothing comes of it then they should NOT keep a record of it.

I could go on and on but I'll end with this -
* by taking it to TSM, technically they did REPORT it! Because that is exactly where it should have gone.

Oops one more - in today's world this situation would have NEVER even go to Joe or TC or GS or GS.
One person and one person only would have been in deep doggie doo doo - yes that is the $7m man himself.
Yes, that is exactly right. They report it to CYA. Telling TSM was great and needed to happen but they have no ability to arrest or investigate anyone. Maybe you think a charity holds some special powers, but it doesn't. Could TSM arrest anyone or charge anyone? Could they take the kids away from their parents? Were they a state or federal agency. I don't need to do mental gymnastics here....and while things have changed....they discussed clearly about reporting it and chose not to. I'm not making that up, there are actual emails stating these discussions. It's not a maybe they talked about it...they actually talked about it.

If they didn't keep a record of something like this, well that is on them again as administrators. Even in 2001 there were clear HR policies and paper trails available. You can use caps and say TSM was "reporting it" until the cows come home, but that didn't work out to well. For someone that was 6th in line, he sure seemed concerned enough to mention it coming back to bite them in the arse. Almost like he knew better...go figure.

So what you're saying if a kid is suspected today of being abused, the people should call a children's charity first if they have a mandatory reporter on staff and they can wipe their hands of it.......of course not. I have seen how the conversations went the last 8 years on this and every ear the rabbit holes get deeper and deeper. Cheers..man. I don't think they are bad people at all....I feel for them too....but I also think they regret not making that call and recording it. It should have been reported much earlier the process as well, but it wasn't sadly.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
Yes, that is exactly right. They report it to CYA. Telling TSM was great and needed to happen but they have no ability to arrest or investigate anyone. Maybe you think a charity holds some special powers, but it doesn't. Could TSM arrest anyone or charge anyone? Could they take the kids away from their parents? Were they a state or federal agency. I don't need to do mental gymnastics here....and while things have changed....they discussed clearly about reporting it and chose not to. I'm not making that up, there are actual emails stating this. If they didn't keep a record of something like this, well that is on them again as administrators. Even in 2001 there were clear HR policies and paper trails. You can use caps and say TSM was "reporting it" until the cows come home, but that didn't work out to well.


First off, I have no allegiance to any of the parties involved. I'm not part of a free-Jerry crowd and I'm not pro or against the PSU Administrators - I'm just trying to illustrate the process. Secondly, I oversee HR and Compliance (at that time) at our non-profit so again, I'm just trying to illustrate how it works.

TSM not only had all the power they had the responsibility to do something. It does not matter what was reported to them or how - they are steps they need to take - they took none of them.

Conversely, well I don't have the time for conversely right now but I'll end with I'm not playing mental gymnastics - just trying to educate that's all. Every single thing that has happened in this situation has done nothing to help children anywhere or anytime. That's the reason I focus on TSM.
 
First off, I have no allegiance to any of the parties involved. I'm not part of a free-Jerry crowd and I'm not pro or against the PSU Administrators - I'm just trying to illustrate the process. Secondly, I oversee HR and Compliance (at that time) at our non-profit so again, I'm just trying to illustrate how it works.

TSM not only had all the power they had the responsibility to do something. It does not matter what was reported to them or how - they are steps they need to take - they took none of them.

Conversely, well I don't have the time for conversely right now but I'll end with I'm not playing mental gymnastics - just trying to educate that's all. Every single thing that has happened in this situation has done nothing to help children anywhere or anytime. That's the reason I focus on TSM.
I'm not saying TSM shouldn't have called....they should have too immediately. That being said...you're in HR and not responsible for the company or University like a President or CEO....their job is to protect the company and University first and foremost. If you didn't tell your chain on something like that and just called a charity....you wouldn't have a job more than likely. I mean Spanier stated this very concern in his email to them. It's not just an either or here for me....MM should have made the initial call, but once it got to Tim and beyond with a second known incident, they should have made that call after they were told to. You can focus on TSM all you want, but I see some some issues with their handling as well.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
I know it sounds weird but what exactly were they reporting?

I, Graham S, although I am NOT a Mandated reporter, am reporting that I heard "6th hand knowledge" of "horseplay". Please keep in mind that if that is what was reported absolutely NOTHING would have been done.

And I know this is going to sound the totally illogical but they truly wouldn't have had CYA because in the case that nothing is done it truly is like nothing happened. It's expunged - nada, nothing, zippo, zilch.

That 'system', like it or not, is intended to protect BOTH the accuser and "accused".
* so the next point that is typically made is, "They would have had a record of it" - not necessarily true because once the report is made and nothing comes of it then they should NOT keep a record of it.

I could go on and on but I'll end with this -
* by taking it to TSM, technically they did REPORT it! Because that is exactly where it should have gone.

Oops one more - in today's world this situation would have NEVER even go to Joe or TC or GS or GS.
One person and one person only would have been in deep doggie doo doo - yes that is the $7m man himself.
Sending an email that said they could make themselves vulnerable by not reporting it certainly didn’t help his/their cause.
 
Just idle talk.
Within two weeks, Myers had become a client of Andrew Shubin. For months, Shubin refused to let the police interview Myers without Shubin being present, and he apparently hid Myers in a remote Pennsylvania hunting cabin to keep them from finding him.

After a February 10, 2012, hearing, Shubin verbally assaulted Anthony Sassano, an agent for the attorney general's office, outside the courthouse, cursing him roundly. “He was very vulgar, critical of me,” Sassano recalled. “Let’s call it unprofessional [language], for an attorney.”

Shubin was angry because the Attorney General’s Office wouldn’t interview Myers, who, he claimed, had stayed at Sandusky’s house “over 100 times” where he had been subjected to “both oral and anal sex.” But the police still refused to allow Shubin to be present during any interview.

Soon afterwards, Shubin relented, allowing a postal inspector named Michael Corricelli to talk to Allan Myers alone on February 28, 2012. But during the three-hour interview, Myers never said Sandusky had abused him. On March 8, Corricelli tried again, but Myers again failed to provide any stories of molestation. On March 16, Corricelli brought Myers to the police barracks for a third interview in which Anthony Sassano took part. Asked about three out-of-state trips, Myers denied any sexual contact and said that Sandusky had only tucked him into bed.

“He did not recall the first time he was abused by Sandusky,” Sassano wrote in his notes, nor did Myers recall how many times he was abused. “He indicated it is hard to talk about the Sandusky sexual abuse because Sandusky was like a father to him.” Finally, Myers said that on a trip to Erie, Pennsylvania, Sandusky put his hand inside his pants and touched his penis. Sassano tried valiantly to get more out of him, asking whether Sandusky had tried to put Myers’ hand on his own penis or whether that had been oral sex. No.

Still, Myers now estimated that there had been ten sexual abuse events and that the last one was in the shower incident that McQeary overheard. “I attempted to have Myers elaborate on the sexual contact he had with Sandusky, but he refused by saying he wasn’t ready to talk about the specifics,” Sassano wrote. Myers said that he had not given anyone, including his attorneys, such details. “This is in contrast to what Shubin told me,” Sassano noted.

On April 3, 2012, Corricelli and Sassano were schedule to meet yet again with the reluctant Allan Myers, but he didn’t show up, saying that he was “too upset” by a friend’s death.

“Corricelli indicated that Attorney Shubin advised him that Myers had related to him incidents of oral, anal, and digital penetration by Sandusky,” Sassano wrote in his report. “Shubin showed Corricelli a three page document purported to be Myers’ recollection of his sexual contact with Sandusky. Corricelli examined the document and indicated to me that he suspected the document was written by Attorney Shubin. I advised that I did not want a copy of a document that was suspected to be written by Attorney Shubin.” Sassano concluded: “At this time, I don’t anticipate further investigation concerning Allan Myers.”

That is how things stood as the Sandusky trial was about to begin. Karl Rominger wanted to call Myers to testify as a defense witness, but Amendola refused. “I was told that there was a détente and an understanding that both sides would simply not identify Victim Number 2,” Rominger later recalled. The prosecution didn’t want such a weak witness who had given a strong exculpatory statement to Curtis Everhart. Amendola didn’t want a defense witness who was now claiming to be an abuse victim. “So they decided to punt, to use an analogy,” Rominger concluded.

I realize all that, and am fully aware that the State is full of crap regarding AM. Like I said. If they didn't think AM was Victim 2, there would either be a murder investigation, or someone somewhere would be DEMANDING a LOT of answers. Yet, the State is cool with AM stealing a raped little boy's 7 million dollars.

What I can't understand is Ray's angle regarding AM. He does such great work, but yet continues to deny and put on ignore anyone that disagrees in the least with him about this. Makes absolutely no sense.
 
Sending an email that said they could make themselves vulnerable by not reporting it certainly didn’t help his/their cause.


IF/THEN

It was hypothetical. What about the elephant in the room? What about the boy in that shower? Why weren't they already vulnerable?

LoJolla knows the answer. He knows who the bad guys are here. Why does he keep distracting us from what really matters?
 
  • Like
Reactions: pandaczar12
IF/THEN

It was hypothetical. What about the elephant in the room? What about the boy in that shower? Why weren't they already vulnerable?

LoJolla knows the answer. He knows who the bad guys are here. Why does he keep distracting us from what really matters?
What?
 

The vulnerability of which Spanier spoke was hypothetical. For it to be triggered, a subsequent incident needed to occur. If the boy in the shower with Jerry had been in any danger, PSU's vulnerability would have been immediate and very real.

Whenever we get around to talking about why Joe and the others were framed, somebody like LaJolla trolls the thread.
 
I realize all that, and am fully aware that the State is full of crap regarding AM. Like I said. If they didn't think AM was Victim 2, there would either be a murder investigation, or someone somewhere would be DEMANDING a LOT of answers. Yet, the State is cool with AM stealing a raped little boy's 7 million dollars.

What I can't understand is Ray's angle regarding AM. He does such great work, but yet continues to deny and put on ignore anyone that disagrees in the least with him about this. Makes absolutely no sense.

My only guess regarding Ray’s view on AM is that he needs John Ziegler to be very wrong on something, so if and when Joe Paterno is finally vindicated, he and not Ziegler is seen as Hero #1.

It seems clear the reason McGettigan and Fina made up the AM is not the real V2 narrative is so they could justify not arresting Andrew Shubin for obstruction of justice after he gave the statement saying AM was subject to oral and anal intercourse, which ended up being refuted by AM himself.

If the civil attorney who represented nearly half of Sandusky’s accusers was arrested for providing a false statement regarding the alleged abuse of the most infamous “victim” just before Sandusky’s trial, that would have set off a shitstorm not even the mainstream media could ignore.
 
Last edited:
My only guess regarding Ray’s view on AM is that he needs John Ziegler to be very wrong on something, so if and when Joe Paterno is finally vindicated, he and not Ziegler is seen as Hero #1.

It seems clear the reason McGettigan and Fina made up the AM is not the real V2 narrative is so they could justify not arresting Andrew Shubin for obstruction of justice after he gave the statement saying AM was subject to oral and anal intercourse, which ended up being refuted by AM himself.

If the civil attorney who represented nearly half of Sandusky’s accusers was arrested for providing a false statement regarding the alleged abuse of the most infamous “victim” just before Sandusky’s trial, that would have set off a shitstorm not even the mainstream media could ignore.

Wish I could give you ONE THOUSAND "Likes" on this post!!!!! : ^ )
 
The vulnerability of which Spanier spoke was hypothetical. For it to be triggered, a subsequent incident needed to occur. If the boy in the shower with Jerry had been in any danger, PSU's vulnerability would have been immediate and very real.

Whenever we get around to talking about why Joe and the others were framed, somebody like LaJolla trolls the thread.
You’re like a broken record Indy.
Are you trying to dispute what I posted? You think sending the email that talked about being vulnerable did help his/their cause? I can just about guarantee you that, with the benefit of hindsight, Spanier wishes he hadn’t sent that email. Regardless of what it’s intent was, it was wide open for people to interpret as they see fit. Thus, people interpreted it in the worst possible light.
 
You’re like a broken record Indy.
Are you trying to dispute what I posted? You think sending the email that talked about being vulnerable did help his/their cause? I can just about guarantee you that, with the benefit of hindsight, Spanier wishes he hadn’t sent that email. Regardless of what it’s intent was, it was wide open for people to interpret as they see fit. Thus, people interpreted it in the worst possible light.
Only Indy thinks that email helped the cause. That email sank them and Indy still thinks it helped prove something. It shows some level of concern about not reporting but somehow he turned that into something else in his head.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
You’re like a broken record Indy.
Are you trying to dispute what I posted? You think sending the email that talked about being vulnerable did help his/their cause? I can just about guarantee you that, with the benefit of hindsight, Spanier wishes he hadn’t sent that email. Regardless of what it’s intent was, it was wide open for people to interpret as they see fit. Thus, people interpreted it in the worst possible light.
In hindsight, I'll bet all wounded by this situation wish they had said nothing. I'd like to hear from anyone who has never regretted something they said or wrote that wasn't spun to be a negative.
However, let's consider this. If you were dealing with a potential criminal act, would you discuss it over several email exchanges? Now I know there are some REAL Einstein's here....but even Graham Spanier is shrewd enough to avoid leaving a paper trail if he had even the slightest indication that he was dealing with any sort of child abuse.
The words and actions of S,S,C were an attempt to insure that JS was not going to use the facilities again. He had demonstrated that he didn't use good judgement, so they were making the call for him. The emails are proof that NOTHING about abuse, let alone sexual abuse was reported to any of them.
 
Who, in this case, was suspected of being abused? Suspected by whom?

I don’t know who you are responding to, but I’m not surprised that someone on my ignore list doesn’t understand that nobody involved suspected abuse. I posed the exact same question to someone back on page 6... and they conveniently never answered.
 
I don’t know who you are responding to, but I’m not surprised that someone on my ignore list doesn’t understand that nobody involved suspected abuse. I posed the exact same question to someone back on page 6... and they conveniently never answered.
Because you're as nuts as he is. They didn't suspect anything, but said they could be vulnerable for not reporting it. They didn't suspect anything but told Jerry not come by the facilities anymore...because again....they didn't suspect anything. They just wanted to be mean to Jerry. It's so odd their actions and actual words in the email don't say Jerry didn't do it so not to bother doing anything. Instead they voice some concern and take actions....but somehow that needs to be interpreted as they didn't think anything was up. Some great logic in play there.

If you are actually convinced nothing occurred, you're not worried about being "vulnerable". You don't ban someone from stopping by with kids. Somehow you old goats convinced yourself of that BS is some weird type of idol worshiping....it's just some real delusional stuff you guys jumped into and ran with. You have people that think 911 and Sandy Hook weren't real....so you guys are in good company there I guess. I know talking to you guys is like talking to a brick wall, but it's actually funny to see you guys think some big bombshell is still coming almost a decade later.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
My only guess regarding Ray’s view on AM is that he needs John Ziegler to be very wrong on something, so if and when Joe Paterno is finally vindicated, he and not Ziegler is seen as Hero #1.

It seems clear the reason McGettigan and Fina made up the AM is not the real V2 narrative is so they could justify not arresting Andrew Shubin for obstruction of justice after he gave the statement saying AM was subject to oral and anal intercourse, which ended up being refuted by AM himself.

If the civil attorney who represented nearly half of Sandusky’s accusers was arrested for providing a false statement regarding the alleged abuse of the most infamous “victim” just before Sandusky’s trial, that would have set off a shitstorm not even the mainstream media could ignore.

Ziegler was cool with the whole deal
Which media outlet requested this information, sure it can't be the Inky as they have no interest in the truth. People want the facts,we can handle the facts. When the media prints lies they lose credibility.

Ralph, this is the kind of reporting we crave and deserve, thank you.

Why the Inky can't bring themselves to believe that prosecutors lie to get an indictment is beyond reason. Prosecutors lie to grand juries and again at trial but most of all they lie to the media.

We know how gullible the public can be but to think that "investigative" reporters keep buying what the prosecution is selling time after time is confounding.

Lets see if this makes sense to the Inky reporters, 100 % of what the prosecutions says is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, correct ? Maybe thier reporters believe this fallacy but the public does not.

It seems the Inky is involved in a re-entry program for people coming out of prison, which is commendable but what we need is for the paper to do is stop promoting the prosecution's side and sending innocents to prison in the first place.

Traffic Court was just one such case where the prosecution lied to the grand jury but the Inky is sticking to their story,to bad their version of what happened in the courtroom just happened to be what the prosecution was spewing, not what actually took place. Had the day to day proceeding been accurately reported the public and the rest of the Inky staff might feel differently about the prosecution's accounts .

No one in American talks anymore, we live in a "you're fired" mentality world, disgracing and shaming is the name of the game. It's easier to convince the public of corruption or that a scheme took place,than the truth.

All public figures are corrupt if we are to believe the Inky,the public has been misled by continually rehashing untruths.Prosecutors use bullying tactics to get what they want and using the Inky to convey their unfounded "facts" is just one of their strongarm methods.

Unless the Innocence Projects hands the Inky a story or its covered elsewhere, is the only time they actually carry a story about an innocent that has finally tasted freedom and justice after a long and grueling road fighting the "Justice" Department.

Holding the "Justice" Department accountable is more of what is needed from the media, listening, just listening to defendants and hearing their account is crucial. Not the " you're guilty" articles because the prosecution says so, prosecutors have agendas and motives which need to be explored, not sure if the Inky is up to the task.
 
You’re like a broken record Indy.
Are you trying to dispute what I posted? You think sending the email that talked about being vulnerable did help his/their cause? I can just about guarantee you that, with the benefit of hindsight, Spanier wishes he hadn’t sent that email. Regardless of what it’s intent was, it was wide open for people to interpret as they see fit. Thus, people interpreted it in the worst possible light.

I'm simply arguing that if what had been reported to them had involved possible sexual abuse, PSU would have already been vulnerable. If I'm a broken record, it's because some people seem to have difficulty with the English language.

Think it through. What difference would it have made if Jerry heard and acted upon their message? Wouldn't they have already been vulnerable? Why was Spanier speaking hypothetically when there was some kid out there who could go to the police at any time? They never even reference the kid in the shower in all of their notes and emails. He should have been the main topic of discussion if what had been reported to them was serious at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pandaczar12
In hindsight, I'll bet all wounded by this situation wish they had said nothing. I'd like to hear from anyone who has never regretted something they said or wrote that wasn't spun to be a negative.
However, let's consider this. If you were dealing with a potential criminal act, would you discuss it over several email exchanges? Now I know there are some REAL Einstein's here....but even Graham Spanier is shrewd enough to avoid leaving a paper trail if he had even the slightest indication that he was dealing with any sort of child abuse.
The words and actions of S,S,C were an attempt to insure that JS was not going to use the facilities again. He had demonstrated that he didn't use good judgement, so they were making the call for him. The emails are proof that NOTHING about abuse, let alone sexual abuse was reported to any of them.
For the love of god, i said the email didn’t help there cause. I didn’t say it was proof that they knew Sandusky was molesting children. I said it didn’t help their cause Indy (and now possibly you) are disagreeing with that? It makes no sense.
 
It seems pretty clear after all of the discussion since this went down.

1) MM reported sexual sounds to his dad and his doctor friend. MM, his dad, and the mandatory reporter doctor never went to police. Instead MM reported horseplay to JoePa. So MM, his dad, and the doc did not believe a crime occurred.

2) JoePa took this horseplay up the chain to the head of PSU police and the University president. He demanded Sandusky be barred from his facilities based on horseplay. Joe even followed up with MM to ensure it was being handled appropriately in his view. Joe was lauded by all including the state for his cooperation throughout. The NCAA later adopted JoePa's way of handling the report as it's official process to handle such matters.

3. C, S, and S received reports of horseplay and debated the appropriate response. They reported this to TSM officials who had responsibility for oversight of both Sandusky and the children with whom he interacted including any legal matters. TSM and executive director Raykovitz despite being a licensed child psychologist and mandatory reporter did not report the incident and seemingly did not limit or monitor Sandusky's interaction with children thereafter. Later, TSM employed a massive shredding operation to destroy any evidence.

4. The Penn State Board and TSM had numerous overlaps and it was clearly decided by said board members that they did not want to bear personal liability for the eventual lawsuits. Therefore they fired and made JoePa a scapegoat and then worked with the governor to exact a vendetta against Spanier while pinning it all on Penn State knowing this would easily be the shiny object the puppets in the media would follow. This was a deal that was cut to protect BOT asses and exact political revenge. Of course we know Surma will rot in hell for using the opportunity to exact revenge on JoePa for his perceived slight to his son. The NCAA and B1G piling on for their own purposes helped to fan the flames of the media puppets and line their own corrupt pockets.

5. It is also quite possible to likely that some former TSM board members, big donors, and affiliates were also abusing children less obviously than Sandusky and wanted to use PSU for cover. In late 1997 there was a former cheerleading coach that also left town very quickly after being accused of sexually assaulting a male college student who was trying out for cheerleading. So I certainly don't think the abuse was limited to Sandusky but it is clear that TSM was the conduit for most of it.

6. The Sandusky trial was a sham and the new info on the grand jury leaks is evidence of criminal behavior on the part of the prosecutors. MM changed his story with the benefit of "hindsight" and a whole lot of prosecutor strong arming to include penis pics. MM's changed story warps the assessment of C,S, and S's actions by giving us a completely different event than what was originally reported. A decade plus of poorly remembered event details and mental reshaping doesn't help.

7. The bottom line is that JoePa, the football program lightning rod, C,S, and S, the entire PSU community, and all alumni take the fall courtesy of puppets in the media and a corrupt PA court system that were easily manipulated by PSU BOT, the governor, the NCAA (and B1G who was mostly piling on because they could). TSM shredded their evidence and the real co-conspirators there merely suffered some diminished public respect but otherwise came out unscathed and some are possibly still abusing children today.
 
Last edited:
Yes, that is exactly right. They report it to CYA. Telling TSM was great and needed to happen but they have no ability to arrest or investigate anyone. Maybe you think a charity holds some special powers, but it doesn't. Could TSM arrest anyone or charge anyone? Could they take the kids away from their parents? Were they a state or federal agency. I don't need to do mental gymnastics here....and while things have changed....they discussed clearly about reporting it and chose not to. I'm not making that up, there are actual emails stating these discussions. It's not a maybe they talked about it...they actually talked about it.

If they didn't keep a record of something like this, well that is on them again as administrators. Even in 2001 there were clear HR policies and paper trails available. You can use caps and say TSM was "reporting it" until the cows come home, but that didn't work out to well. For someone that was 6th in line, he sure seemed concerned enough to mention it coming back to bite them in the arse. Almost like he knew better...go figure.

So what you're saying if a kid is suspected today of being abused, the people should call a children's charity first if they have a mandatory reporter on staff and they can wipe their hands of it.......of course not. I have seen how the conversations went the last 8 years on this and every ear the rabbit holes get deeper and deeper. Cheers..man. I don't think they are bad people at all....I feel for them too....but I also think they regret not making that call and recording it. It should have been reported much earlier the process as well, but it wasn't sadly.

TSM people should all be in jail.
Most of the notes in the released files appear to be FBI interviews conducted in 2012 with Second Mile board members in both the State College office and other regional offices. The interviews described how Second Mile board members reacted to the Sandusky revelations dating back to as early as 2010 and 2011.

"Not a single person admitted to knowing about Sandusky's crimes prior to the presentment," Snedden said. Two people claim to know about "missing donor money," but nothing else is said about that subject in the rest of the released files.

The documents released by the feds are heavily redacted, but there are many references to Second Mile board members circling the wagons. References were made in the documents to false allegations being made by a "disgruntled mother" and a "disgruntled kid."

The documents are more noticeable for what they don't say. Such as in the issue of jurisdiction involving the Sandusky investigation. If, for example, in their investigation of The Second Mile, if the feds any found any evidence of a federal crime, such as Sandusky crossing state lines with sex abuse victims, "They would have taken it [the investigation] away from the state for prosecution," Snedden said.

"But they [the feds] didn't do any of that," Snedden said after reviewing the documents. "There's no indication they did that."

Instead, the attorney general pursued the Sandusky investigation, and the feds pursued The Second File.

"Sadly, neither focused on political vindictiveness and corruption, which is exactly what happened here," Snedden said.

Snedden has his own experience with a previous secret federal investigation into the Penn State scandal. In 2012, working as a special agent for the Federal Investigative Services, Snedden did a background investigation of former Penn State President Graham Spanier, to see if Spanier's high level security clearance should be renewed by the government.

As part of that investigation, Snedden investigated whether Spanier had orchestrated a coverup of Sandusky's crimes. Snedden's investigation concluded that there was no cover up at Penn State, because there was no sex crime to cover up. As far as Snedden was concerned, Mike McQueary, the guy who witnessed a naked Sandusky allegedly abusing a boy in the Penn State showers, was not a credible witness.

Spanier's clearance was renewed as the result of an 110-page report that Snedden wrote back in 2012, a report that was declassified earlier this year.

In the investigation of The Second Mile, the released files include copies of FBI interviews with eight witnesses whose identities are redacted. The interviews are recorded on FBI "302s," the number of the form that interview summaries were typed on by FBI agents.

"I see a lot of interviews with a lot of different people, a wide range of positions in the Second Mile hierarchy," Snedden said. "And I don't see any people admitting to knowing anything concrete about Sandusky."

In the interviews, there are quotes from woman who "had always heard positive things about the organization. She had never heard anything bad about TSM founder Jerry Sandusky."

Another woman interviewed by the FBI described Sandusky's "nondescript entrance and presence" at a March 25, 2011 "Celebration of Excellence" event in Hershey.

"Sandusky was not acknowledged during the event formally by TSM," the woman told the FBI.

"On March 31, 2011, the Patriot News published an article about the grand jury investigation" of Sandusky," the woman told the FBI. "The article was everywhere and everyone was talking about it."

"She didn't recall seeing any evidence of financial improprieties or anything otherwise questionable," the FBI 302 stated. "She did not personally observe any misuse of donations."

"The general mood of the room was that of denial," the woman told the FBI. "Everyone appeared to be in support of Sandusky and TSM."

In another 302, an unidentified witness said, "He did not observe any inappropriate behavior." On the same form, someone, possibly Sandusky himself stated the complainant "was a disgruntled kid, not associated with TSM. He was not aware at the time that the allegation was sexual in nature"
 
TSM people should all be in jail.
Most of the notes in the released files appear to be FBI interviews conducted in 2012 with Second Mile board members in both the State College office and other regional offices. The interviews described how Second Mile board members reacted to the Sandusky revelations dating back to as early as 2010 and 2011.

"Not a single person admitted to knowing about Sandusky's crimes prior to the presentment," Snedden said. Two people claim to know about "missing donor money," but nothing else is said about that subject in the rest of the released files.

The documents released by the feds are heavily redacted, but there are many references to Second Mile board members circling the wagons. References were made in the documents to false allegations being made by a "disgruntled mother" and a "disgruntled kid."

The documents are more noticeable for what they don't say. Such as in the issue of jurisdiction involving the Sandusky investigation. If, for example, in their investigation of The Second Mile, if the feds any found any evidence of a federal crime, such as Sandusky crossing state lines with sex abuse victims, "They would have taken it [the investigation] away from the state for prosecution," Snedden said.

"But they [the feds] didn't do any of that," Snedden said after reviewing the documents. "There's no indication they did that."

Instead, the attorney general pursued the Sandusky investigation, and the feds pursued The Second File.

"Sadly, neither focused on political vindictiveness and corruption, which is exactly what happened here," Snedden said.

Snedden has his own experience with a previous secret federal investigation into the Penn State scandal. In 2012, working as a special agent for the Federal Investigative Services, Snedden did a background investigation of former Penn State President Graham Spanier, to see if Spanier's high level security clearance should be renewed by the government.

As part of that investigation, Snedden investigated whether Spanier had orchestrated a coverup of Sandusky's crimes. Snedden's investigation concluded that there was no cover up at Penn State, because there was no sex crime to cover up. As far as Snedden was concerned, Mike McQueary, the guy who witnessed a naked Sandusky allegedly abusing a boy in the Penn State showers, was not a credible witness.

Spanier's clearance was renewed as the result of an 110-page report that Snedden wrote back in 2012, a report that was declassified earlier this year.

In the investigation of The Second Mile, the released files include copies of FBI interviews with eight witnesses whose identities are redacted. The interviews are recorded on FBI "302s," the number of the form that interview summaries were typed on by FBI agents.

"I see a lot of interviews with a lot of different people, a wide range of positions in the Second Mile hierarchy," Snedden said. "And I don't see any people admitting to knowing anything concrete about Sandusky."

In the interviews, there are quotes from woman who "had always heard positive things about the organization. She had never heard anything bad about TSM founder Jerry Sandusky."

Another woman interviewed by the FBI described Sandusky's "nondescript entrance and presence" at a March 25, 2011 "Celebration of Excellence" event in Hershey.

"Sandusky was not acknowledged during the event formally by TSM," the woman told the FBI.

"On March 31, 2011, the Patriot News published an article about the grand jury investigation" of Sandusky," the woman told the FBI. "The article was everywhere and everyone was talking about it."

"She didn't recall seeing any evidence of financial improprieties or anything otherwise questionable," the FBI 302 stated. "She did not personally observe any misuse of donations."

"The general mood of the room was that of denial," the woman told the FBI. "Everyone appeared to be in support of Sandusky and TSM."

In another 302, an unidentified witness said, "He did not observe any inappropriate behavior." On the same form, someone, possibly Sandusky himself stated the complainant "was a disgruntled kid, not associated with TSM. He was not aware at the time that the allegation was sexual in nature"
bigtrial.net bot is working OT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
I'm simply arguing that if what had been reported to them had involved possible sexual abuse, PSU would have already been vulnerable. If I'm a broken record, it's because some people seem to have difficulty with the English language.

Think it through. What difference would it have made if Jerry heard and acted upon their message? Wouldn't they have already been vulnerable? Why was Spanier speaking hypothetically when there was some kid out there who could go to the police at any time? They never even reference the kid in the shower in all of their notes and emails. He should have been the main topic of discussion if what had been reported to them was serious at all.
What you are simply arguing is the same stuff you throw out every time Indy. Whether it fits in that conversation or not. You responded to my post about Spanier’s email not helping their cause with the same routine about actual guilt or innocence. That was not my point.
Let me ask you just a simple “yes or no” question Indy. Did Spanier’s email help or hurt?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
I'm simply arguing that if what had been reported to them had involved possible sexual abuse, PSU would have already been vulnerable. If I'm a broken record, it's because some people seem to have difficulty with the English language.

Think it through. What difference would it have made if Jerry heard and acted upon their message? Wouldn't they have already been vulnerable? Why was Spanier speaking hypothetically when there was some kid out there who could go to the police at any time? They never even reference the kid in the shower in all of their notes and emails. He should have been the main topic of discussion if what had been reported to them was serious at all.

It's a very simple concept. Plus the actions and testimony of those involved back it up 100%.

It's telling that almost a decade later, trolls are still here to remind us that the 'earth is flat', and that we should ignore any new information.
 
What you are simply arguing is the same stuff you throw out every time Indy. Whether it fits in that conversation or not. You responded to my post about Spanier’s email not helping their cause with the same routine about actual guilt or innocence. That was not my point.
Let me ask you just a simple “yes or no” question Indy. Did Spanier’s email help or hurt?

I don't understand the point of your question. I think it's clear that the email didn't help... so what? That doesn't have any bearing on actual guilt or innocence.
 
"The only downside for us is if the message isn't 'heard' and acted upon, and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it," Spanier told Curley and Schultz in 2001 in the email exchange. He called the plan "humane and a reasonable way to proceed."

Only here on this site do people try an interpret those words differently. Same delusional old goats every off season still trying to convince themselves nothing happened.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
It seems pretty clear after all of the discussion since this went down.

1) MM reported sexual sounds to his dad and his doctor friend. MM, his dad, and the mandatory reporter doctor never went to police. Instead MM reported horseplay to JoePa. So MM, his dad, and the doc did not believe a crime occurred.

2) JoePa took this horseplay up the chain to the head of PSU police and the University president. He demanded Sandusky be barred from his facilities based on horseplay. Joe even followed up with MM to ensure it was being handled appropriately in his view. Joe was lauded by all including the state for his cooperation throughout. The NCAA later adopted JoePa's way of handling the report as it's official process to handle such matters.

3. C, S, and S received reports of horseplay and debated the appropriate response. They reported this to TSM officials who had responsibility for oversight of both Sandusky and the children with whom he interacted including any legal matters. TSM and executive director Raykovitz despite being a licensed child psychologist and mandatory reporter did not report the incident and seemingly did not limit or monitor Sandusky's interaction with children thereafter. Later, TSM employed a massive shredding operation to destroy any evidence.

4. The Penn State Board and TSM had numerous overlaps and it was clearly decided by said board members that they did not want to bear personal liability for the eventual lawsuits. Therefore they fired and made JoePa a scapegoat and then worked with the governor to exact a vendetta against Spanier while pinning it all on Penn State knowing this would easily be the shiny object the puppets in the media would follow. This was a deal that was cut to protect BOT asses and exact political revenge. Of course we know Surma will rot in hell for using the opportunity to exact revenge on JoePa for his perceived slight to his son. The NCAA and B1G piling on for their own purposes helped to fan the flames of the media puppets and line their own corrupt pockets.

5. It is also quite possible to likely that some former TSM board members, big donors, and affiliates were also abusing children less obviously than Sandusky and wanted to use PSU for cover. In late 1997 there was a former cheerleading coach that also left town very quickly after being accused of sexually assaulting a male college student who was trying out for cheerleading. So I certainly don't think the abuse was limited to Sandusky but it is clear that TSM was the conduit for most of it.

6. The Sandusky trial was a sham and the new info on the grand jury leaks is evidence of criminal behavior on the part of the prosecutors. MM changed his story with the benefit of "hindsight" and a whole lot of prosecutor strong arming to include penis pics. MM's changed story warps the assessment of C,S, and S's actions by giving us a completely different event than what was originally reported. A decade plus of poorly remembered event details and mental reshaping doesn't help.

7. The bottom line is that JoePa, the football program lightning rod, C,S, and S, the entire PSU community, and all alumni take the fall courtesy of puppets in the media and a corrupt PA court system that were easily manipulated by PSU BOT, the governor, the NCAA (and B1G who was mostly piling on because they could). TSM shredded their evidence and the real co-conspirators there merely suffered some diminished public respect but otherwise came out unscathed and some are possibly still abusing children today.

There could not have been much TSM overlap.
Most of the notes in the released files appear to be FBI interviews conducted in 2012 with Second Mile board members in both the State College office and other regional offices. The interviews described how Second Mile board members reacted to the Sandusky revelations dating back to as early as 2010 and 2011.

"Not a single person admitted to knowing about Sandusky's crimes prior to the presentment," Snedden said. Two people claim to know about "missing donor money," but nothing else is said about that subject in the rest of the released files.

The documents released by the feds are heavily redacted, but there are many references to Second Mile board members circling the wagons. References were made in the documents to false allegations being made by a "disgruntled mother" and a "disgruntled kid."

The documents are more noticeable for what they don't say. Such as in the issue of jurisdiction involving the Sandusky investigation. If, for example, in their investigation of The Second Mile, if the feds any found any evidence of a federal crime, such as Sandusky crossing state lines with sex abuse victims, "They would have taken it [the investigation] away from the state for prosecution," Snedden said.

"But they [the feds] didn't do any of that," Snedden said after reviewing the documents. "There's no indication they did that."

Instead, the attorney general pursued the Sandusky investigation, and the feds pursued The Second File.

"Sadly, neither focused on political vindictiveness and corruption, which is exactly what happened here," Snedden said.

Snedden has his own experience with a previous secret federal investigation into the Penn State scandal. In 2012, working as a special agent for the Federal Investigative Services, Snedden did a background investigation of former Penn State President Graham Spanier, to see if Spanier's high level security clearance should be renewed by the government.

As part of that investigation, Snedden investigated whether Spanier had orchestrated a coverup of Sandusky's crimes. Snedden's investigation concluded that there was no cover up at Penn State, because there was no sex crime to cover up. As far as Snedden was concerned, Mike McQueary, the guy who witnessed a naked Sandusky allegedly abusing a boy in the Penn State showers, was not a credible witness.

Spanier's clearance was renewed as the result of an 110-page report that Snedden wrote back in 2012, a report that was declassified earlier this year.

In the investigation of The Second Mile, the released files include copies of FBI interviews with eight witnesses whose identities are redacted. The interviews are recorded on FBI "302s," the number of the form that interview summaries were typed on by FBI agents.

"I see a lot of interviews with a lot of different people, a wide range of positions in the Second Mile hierarchy," Snedden said. "And I don't see any people admitting to knowing anything concrete about Sandusky."

In the interviews, there are quotes from woman who "had always heard positive things about the organization. She had never heard anything bad about TSM founder Jerry Sandusky."

Another woman interviewed by the FBI described Sandusky's "nondescript entrance and presence" at a March 25, 2011 "Celebration of Excellence" event in Hershey.

"Sandusky was not acknowledged during the event formally by TSM," the woman told the FBI.

"On March 31, 2011, the Patriot News published an article about the grand jury investigation" of Sandusky," the woman told the FBI. "The article was everywhere and everyone was talking about it."

"She didn't recall seeing any evidence of financial improprieties or anything otherwise questionable," the FBI 302 stated. "She did not personally observe any misuse of donations."

"The general mood of the room was that of denial," the woman told the FBI. "Everyone appeared to be in support of Sandusky and TSM."

In another 302, an unidentified witness said, "He did not observe any inappropriate behavior." On the same form, someone, possibly Sandusky himself stated the complainant "was a disgruntled kid, not associated with TSM. He was not aware at the time that the allegation was sexual in nature"

Another 302 notes that one board member was "shocked after reading the indictment." In addition, "four or five board members in particular were upset that they were never notified. The exchange was heated."

In the 302s, there was discussion of an earlier 1998 allegation that Sandusky had abused another youth in the shower, but "the allegations were considered 'unfounded.'"

There is also discussion in the 302s about an alleged allegation involving the Clinton County Children and Youth Services[CYS].

"CYS did have a safety plan in the event a child was a victim of sexual abuse," the 302 stated. "They did not need to enact their safety plan for SANDUSKY's case because the allegation was not founded and all actions taken by CYS were 'by the book.' "

Bagwell said he has filed multiple FOI requests as part of his Penn State Sunshine Fund. Bagwell, a former newspaper reporter who is now a web developer, said he filed his requests because he was seeking primary source documents from the Sandusky investigation.

"What frustrated me about everything since the very beginning was a complete and utter lack of transparency," Bagwell said.

In his court battle with the U.S. Attorney's office, Bagwell said, the feds indicated that there were some 300,000 pages of documents related to The Second Mile investigation. The feds only released 1,000 pages and "withheld tends of thousands more for reasons not apparent at this time," Bagwell said.

Bagwell, himself a former journalist, said the press coverage of the scandal has been "abysmal, reactionary and sensationalistic," as well as "factually incorrect." Bagwell said he hopes the newly released documents will have a calming effect on Penn State Nation.

"Penn Staters are still screaming for an investigation for years of The Second Mile," Bagwell said. "Well, it turns out there was an investigation."

"My overall view is that everything here [in the documents] seems to support the idea that The Second Mile didn't knowingly do anything wrong," Bagwell said. "The Penn Staters who are clamoring for heads at The Second Mile to roll, I don't think that's an outcome that's appropriate at this point in time."
 
Sending an email that said they could make themselves vulnerable by not reporting it certainly didn’t help his/their cause.
This was forward looking. If you actually read the email objectively (and not with the desire to convict C/S/S or prove how much you hate child abuse) you can easily see that.
 
I don't understand the point of your question. I think it's clear that the email didn't help... so what? That doesn't have any bearing on actual guilt or innocence.
Of course it’s clear. Except to Indy. That’s the point he seems to be trying to argue in some sort of parallel argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
This was forward looking. If you actually read the email objectively (and not with the desire to convict C/S/S or prove how much you hate child abuse) you can easily see that.
You can also easily see it as trying not to report somebody you suspect of sexually abusing children. If you look at it objectively as you say, you can easily see it either way. You can see that, can’t you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
You can also easily see it as trying not to report somebody you suspect of sexually abusing children. If you look at it objectively as you say, you can easily see it either way. You can see that, can’t you?
So let's say what you just said another way "Let me interpret this in a way that three upstanding citizens who no one has anything bad to say about would be covering up for a child molester." Is that more reasonable, or is it more reasonable to interpret it the other way??
 
So let's say what you just said another way "Let me interpret this in a way that three upstanding citizens who no one has anything bad to say about would be covering up for a child molester." Is that more reasonable, or is it more reasonable to interpret it the other way??
That is not objective. That’s subjective. Read Spanier’s email objectively and you can interpret it in a really bad light.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WHCANole
That is not objective. That’s subjective. Read Spanier’s email objectively and you can interpret it in a really bad light.
Your interpretation is not objective either.

It's actually almost impossible to objectively interpret language.

Even "He's really tall" could be sarcasm.

My point is, given that there is no objective interpretation, which is more reasonable, especially given that:
a) C/S/S had not prior history of any misdeeds
b) C/S/S had no reason to cover for Sandusky
c) Even if they were going to engage in some sort of cover up, do you believe they would be dumb enough to write about said cover up in an email?

The reasonable conclusion, given those facts, is my interpretation, not yours.
 
Of course it’s clear. Except to Indy. That’s the point he seems to be trying to argue in some sort of parallel argument.

OK... but you didn't answer my question. Why does it matter? The prosecution could have said he was guilty because he ate frosted flakes for breakfast. That certainly wouldn't have helped, but also certainly didn't mean he was guilty.
 
I realize all that, and am fully aware that the State is full of crap regarding AM. Like I said. If they didn't think AM was Victim 2, there would either be a murder investigation, or someone somewhere would be DEMANDING a LOT of answers. Yet, the State is cool with AM stealing a raped little boy's 7 million dollars.

What I can't understand is Ray's angle regarding AM. He does such great work, but yet continues to deny and put on ignore anyone that disagrees in the least with him about this. Makes absolutely no sense.

I don't think Ray does great work. While I believe he is capable of doing good work as a former IG in the federal government, his work on the Penn State case has been shoddy at times and relies too much on Jim Clemente's view that Sandusky is a POC-type CSA offender and he is unable to consider the possibility that the OAG might have fooled him into believing there was enormous evidence against Sandusky and the case of his guilt being air tight.

He is dead wrong about v2 not being AM and is unwilling to accept that Pendergrast, Snedden, Cipriano, Schultz, Ziegler, Anderson, Byers, Gladwell, Crews, Tavris, and everyone who has done a serious examination of the evidence are convinced that AM is v2.
 
So let's say what you just said another way "Let me interpret this in a way that three upstanding citizens who no one has anything bad to say about would be covering up for a child molester." Is that more reasonable, or is it more reasonable to interpret it the other way??
Connor, have you had a chance to read Malcolm Gladwell's book yet? FWIW, it supports UNC's interpretation.
 
Your interpretation is not objective either.

It's actually almost impossible to objectively interpret language.

Even "He's really tall" could be sarcasm.

My point is, given that there is no objective interpretation, which is more reasonable, especially given that:
a) C/S/S had not prior history of any misdeeds
b) C/S/S had no reason to cover for Sandusky
c) Even if they were going to engage in some sort of cover up, do you believe they would be dumb enough to write about said cover up in an email?

The reasonable conclusion, given those facts, is my interpretation, not yours.
My interpretation is absolutely objective. Again, you are trying to argue the guilt or innocence of the three administrators. That’s really irrelevant to my point that the email hurt his cause. It looks bad. It doesn’t mean he was part of a coverup or that he believed that Sandusky was abusing children. But it certainly allows one to interpret it as there being a coverup.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT