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Before we hand Lee 4 Titles, let's look at the "locks" of 2011...

21Guns

21Guns

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Dec 10, 2013
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The 2011 FILA Junior World Team:

Josh Kindig

Tanner Hall

Nick Roberts

Jesse Thielke

Mark Grey

Logan Steiber

Dan Miller

Lee Munster

Taylor Massa


That's ONE wrestler out of an entire team in 2011 to win an NCAA Championship.
 
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He is a lock to be a top tier wrestler no doubt, barring injuries and unforseen occurrences that is. Haven't seen to many people saying he is a forsure lock to be a 4 time champ.
 
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When you get elite recruits like Alex Marinelli and Spencer Lee, all a coach has to do is sit back and watch them succeed. They are idiot-proof. Multiple titles are their destiny. The coach just has to stay the hell out of their way.

I've read that over the years in various HR threads about Cael's recruiting successes, so it must be true.
 
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21Guns said:
The 2011 FILA Junior World Team:

Josh Kindig

Tanner Hall

Nick Roberts

Jesse Thielke

Mark Grey

Logan Steiber

Dan Miller

Lee Munster

Taylor Massa


That's ONE wrestler out of an entire team in 2011 to win an NCAA Championship.
Click to expand...

and like that ONE guy, Lee is also the #1 ranked recruit in his class. I'm with CV, your attempt to put down Lee by this comparison falls flat.
 
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Aside from the obvious strawman question of who considered which of those guys to be locks to do what ... What exactly is the point in pre-downgrading the potential future college accomplishments of a HS JR?

Speaking of locks, this could be a lock for the most asinine thread in May. At least until Creedo resurfaces.
 
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El-Jefe said:
Aside from the obvious strawman question of who considered which of those guys to be locks to do what ... What exactly is the point in pre-downgrading the potential future college accomplishments of a HS JR?

Speaking of locks, this could be a lock for the most asinine thread in May. At least until Creedo resurfaces.
Click to expand...

Too bad. The thread suggests that there are no "locks", therefore Lee is no more of a lock than the rest of them
 
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21Guns said:
I could not care less about what you think. I have friends on this board who are more knowledgeable than you, and closer connected to the program than you.
Click to expand...
Then maybe they will explain 9.9 to you someday......
 
tpnlion said:
Then maybe they will explain 9.9 to you someday......
Click to expand...

The point of the thread is that every one of those wrestlers were expected to do far more than they ended up doing. Logan Steiber won his titles, none of the others did. If you can't see the point, then you are baiting.
 
El-Jefe said:
Aside from the obvious strawman question of who considered which of those guys to be locks to do what ... What exactly is the point in pre-downgrading the potential future college accomplishments of a HS JR?

Speaking of locks, this could be a lock for the most asinine thread in May. At least until Creedo resurfaces.
Click to expand...

There is no "down grading", get off your high horse. The point is that they ALL were expected to win championships, and one of them did, while the others did not. Who expected them to win titles? FILA. That's their team in 2011. One of them won championships, the others did not.
 
21Guns said:
The 2011 FILA Junior World Team:

Josh Kindig

Tanner Hall

Nick Roberts

Jesse Thielke

Mark Grey

Logan Steiber

Dan Miller

Lee Munster

Taylor Massa


That's ONE wrestler out of an entire team in 2011 to win an NCAA Championship.
Click to expand...
He will never win even 2 titles under Brands and the Iowa style...I would beat ANYONE a lot of money. Spencer will realize this when it's too late. BRANDS CHANGES EVERYONE'S STYLE...IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME....BOOK IT AND I AM VERY VERY SERIOUS AND EVEN THE TRUE IOWA FANS KNOW IT. THERE ARE A FEW EXCEPTIONS !!!! IT'S JUST SAD HE CAN'T SEE THAT CAEL LETS THEM ALONE AND JUST TWEEKS LITTLE THINGS TO BE THE BEST !!!! ITS CALLED A SEVERE CONTROL ISSUE !!!!
 
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spyker said:
He will never win even 2 titles under Brands and the Iowa style...I would beat ANYONE a lot of money. Spencer will realize this when it's too late. BRANDS CHANGES EVERYONE'S STYLE...IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME....BOOK IT AND I AM VERY VERY SERIOUS AND EVEN THE TRUE IOWA FANS KNOW IT. THERE ARE A FEW EXCEPTIONS !!!! IT'S JUST SAD HE CAN'T SEE THAT CAEL LETS THEM ALONE AND JUST TWEEKS LITTLE THINGS TO BE THE BEST !!!! ITS CALLED A SEVERE CONTROL ISSUE !!!!
Click to expand...

Precisely.
 
I, for one, think 21 is making smart and articulate arguments. For example, I feel that Mark Hall is going to be a bust because...it happens. Don't listen to them 21...in the words of Terry Brands, "Haters gonna hate, hate,hate!"
 
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Azchief32 said:
I, for one, think 21 is making smart and articulate arguments. For example, I feel that Mark Hall is going to be a bust because...it happens. Don't listen to them 21...in the words of Terry Brands, "Haters gonna hate, hate,hate!"
Click to expand...

Spyker is sayin the same thing. He won't win more than two.
 
21Guns said:
Spyker is sayin the same thing. He won't win more than two.
Click to expand...

I noticed...in ALL CAPS. Well if Spyker is on board, Lee doesn't stand a chance.

Hey Spyker, won't this make Mr. Lee's presence on your bowling team a little uneasy?
 
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21Guns said:
There is no "down grading", get off your high horse. The point is that they ALL were expected to win championships, and one of them did, while the others did not. Who expected them to win titles? FILA. That's their team in 2011. One of them won championships, the others did not.
Click to expand...
Team FILA, huh?
fila-mentos-2004-298x217.jpg
 
Congrats 21 Guns, you baited me into doing some research on the topic of past JR world teams. I thought I'd list the JR world teams from 2006-2015 to provide some further statistics for you to analyze.
**Also, Jesse Thielke was never a member of a JR world Freestyle team, he was always a Greco guy, at least when it pertained to JR World teams.
(All weights will be listed in order from 50KG to HWT)
KEY
# = JR World Champ
* = NCAA Champ

2006
Patrick McCaffrey (Bronze)
Henry Cejudo (Silver)
*Coleman Scott
*Brent Metcalf
Matt Coughlin
Louis Caputo
*Max Askren
Erik Nye

2007
*David Taylor
Tyler Graff
*Angel Escobedo
*#Bubba Jenkins (Gold)
Jake Kerr
Louis Caputo
Taylor Moore
Stafan Tighe

2008
Mark Rappo
Zach Sanders
Tyler Graff
*Jordan Burroughs
*Quentin Wright (Bronze)
Mike Letts (Bronze)
Clayton Foster (Bronze)
Clayton Jack

2009
Carson Kuhn
*Tony Ramos
*Jordan Oliver (Bronze)
Jason Chamberlain
*Andrew Howe (Bronze)
*Chris Perry
Tyrell Fortune
#Dom Bradley (Gold)

2010
Nick Roberts
Cory Finch
*Matt McDonough
Jason Chamberlain
Conrad Polz
*Chris Perry (Bronze)
Tyler Lehmann
Jeremy Johnson

2011
Nick Roberts
Mark Grey
*Logan Stieber (Silver)
Josh Kindig
Taylor Massa
Lee Munster
Tanner Hall
Daniel Miller

2012
Adrian Cordova
Joey Dance
Earl Hall
Destin McCauley
*Alex Dieringer
Pat Downey (Silver)
Tanner Hall
Austin Marsden

2013
Ethan Lizak
Thomas Gilman
Mark Grey
*Jason Tsirtsis
*Alex Dieringer (Silver)
Sammy Brooks
*#Kyle Snyder (Gold)
Austin Marsden

2014
Jabari Moody
Thomas Gilman (Bronze)
Joey McKenna (Silver)
Aaron Pico (Silver)
Anthony Valencia
*Gabe Dean (Bronze)
*#Kyle Snyder (Bronze)
Adam Coon (Bronze)

2015
#Spencer Lee (Gold)
Stevan Micic (Bronze)
Joey McKenna
Aaron Pico (Bronze)
Mark Hall
Zahid Valencia
Anthony Cassar
Nathan Butler

If anybody sees some mistakes, let me know and I'll correct them
 
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this is a BS post and any response is silly as it doesn't deserve one. The percentages of not winning 4 championships is low based on history so making the claim of Spencer's demise is not much of a stand. TO want to even say it is ignorant based on his records vs any others at his age. Spencer is a stud and one of a kind to this point. His projections are 'almost' without comparison, especially as a Jr in HS.
Some folks need to find something else to do with their spare time....
instead of bad mouthing, just pray he changes his mind and looks toward home (PSU)!!
 
You know Spyker's basement bedroom is wall to wall Spencer Lee photos. That dude is fricking awesome. I'm jealous of his mastery of insanity.
 
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LaxHawk174 said:
Congrats 21 Guns, you baited me into doing some research on the topic of past JR world teams. I thought I'd list the JR world teams from 2006-2015 to provide some further statistics for you to analyze.
**Also, Jesse Thielke was never a member of a JR world Freestyle team, he was always a Greco guy, at least when it pertained to JR World teams.
(All weights will be listed in order from 50KG to HWT)
KEY
# = JR World Champ
* = NCAA Champ

2006
Patrick McCaffrey
Henry Cejudo
*Coleman Scott
*Brent Metcalf
Matt Coughlin
Louis Caputo
*Max Askren
Erik Nye

2007
*David Taylor
Tyler Graff
*Angel Escobedo
*#Bubba Jenkins
Jake Kerr
Louis Caputo
Taylor Moore
Stafan Tighe

2008
Mark Rappo
Zach Sanders
Tyler Graff
*Jordan Burroughs
*Quentin Wright
Kirk Smith
Clayton Foster
Clayton Jack

2009
Carson Kuhn
*Tony Ramos
*Jordan Oliver
Jason Chamberlain
*Andrew Howe
*Chris Perry
Tyrell Fortune
#Dom Bradley

2010
Nick Roberts
Cory Finch
*Matt McDonough
Jason Chamberlain
Conrad Polz
*Chris Perry
Tyler Lehmann
Jeremy Johnson

2011
Nick Roberts
Mark Grey
*Logan Stieber
Josh Kindig
Taylor Massa
Lee Munster
Tanner Hall
Daniel Miller

2012
Adrian Cordova
Joey Dance
Earl Hall
Destin McCauley
*Alex Dieringer
Pat Downey
Tanner Hall
Austin Marsden

2013
Ethan Lizak
Thomas Gilman
Mark Grey
*Jason Tsirtsis
*Alex Dieringer
Sammy Brooks
*#Kyle Snyder
Austin Marsden

2014
Jabari Moody
Thomas Gilman
Joey McKenna
Aaron Pico
Anthony Valencia
*Gabe Dean
*#Kyle Snyder
Adam Coon

2015
#Spencer Lee
Stevan Micic
Joey McKenna
Aaron Pico
Mark Hall
Zahid Valencia
Anthony Cassar
Nathan Butler

If anybody sees some mistakes, let me know and I'll correct them
Click to expand...

Nicely done Lex: See, THAT'S how it's done. You make a LEGIT argument, instead of making ad hominem attacks. Good post.
 
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21Guns said:
There is no "down grading", get off your high horse. The point is that they ALL were expected to win championships, and one of them did, while the others did not. Who expected them to win titles? FILA. That's their team in 2011. One of them won championships, the others did not.
Click to expand...
Name the person who expected Nick Roberts to win a single NCAA title with McDonough at Iowa and Nico committed to PSU. I'll wait.
 
21Guns said:
The 2011 FILA Junior World Team:

Josh Kindig

Tanner Hall

Nick Roberts

Jesse Thielke

Mark Grey

Logan Steiber

Dan Miller

Lee Munster

Taylor Massa


That's ONE wrestler out of an entire team in 2011 to win an NCAA Championship.
Click to expand...
Does this mean we should adjust our expectations for Mark Hall?
 
El-Jefe said:
Name the person who expected Nick Roberts to win a single NCAA title with McDonough at Iowa and Nico committed to PSU. I'll wait.
Click to expand...

Somebody thought Nick Roberts was going to win titles: He went 22-5 during his redshirt year at Ohio State, had it not been for Tomassello, he would most likely not have transferred. As it is, he just won a D2 National Championship at 133 for UPJ.

But I'm sure you knew all that, lmao.
 
21Guns said:
Yes.

It means that our "expectations" for ALL of the great high school talent, need to be tempered.

Let me add two more words: Chance Marstellar.
Click to expand...

Yes, let's follow 21Guns advice and temper our "expectations". Just like 21Guns did here:

21Guns posted: Yes, this puts Iowa back into the top 3 in my opinion....not this coming year, but as of year one for Lee. Right away, Lee is a serious contender for 4 time champion. He is special.

This mother stings way more than Marstellar did, way more.
 
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SansSouci said:
You know Spyker's basement bedroom is wall to wall Spencer Lee photos. That dude is fricking awesome. I'm jealous of his mastery of insanity.
Click to expand...

If it means getting SanSouci over here on a regular basis, we need more of Spyker AND 21guns! I might never have to go over to the HR because I'm bored at work again.
 
21Guns said:
Somebody thought Nick Roberts was going to win titles: He went 22-5 during his redshirt year at Ohio State, had it not been for Tomassello, he would most likely not have transferred. As it is, he just won a D2 National Championship at 133 for UPJ.

But I'm sure you knew all that, lmao.
Click to expand...
Nobody thought Roberts was going to win titles. Also, he transferred to UPJ because he couldn't beat out Zanetta at Pitt, after he couldn't beat out Tomasello.
 
El-Jefe said:
Nobody thought Roberts was going to win titles. Also, he transferred to UPJ because he couldn't beat out Zanetta at Pitt, after he couldn't beat out Tomasello.
Click to expand...
Yep, Roberts was an elite HS wrestler, but a lot of the top programs had 125s nobody, or very few, expected him to beat out/replace.
 
[
El-Jefe said:
Nobody thought Roberts was going to win titles. Also, he transferred to UPJ because he couldn't beat out Zanetta at Pitt, after he couldn't beat out Tomasello.
Click to expand...

Tom Ryan thought he was going to win a title, he gave him a scholarship. What happened with Tomasello, was after that fact. He would not have recruited Roberts if he thought Roberts wasn't capable.
 
Shorter this thread: So I heard you like off-season speculation. Well here's some tortured statistical abstraction you can use to refine your speculation. Discuss!
 
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