B10 wrestling going to divisions?
- Thread starter El-Jefe
- Start date
Rutgers sure to be a perennial top 5 program in B1G East.
The idea of a 10th dual in the conference has been a topic for several years now. If I understand the model Willie tweeted, each team will get teams in the opposing conference twice every seven years. Think about that for a second. More Indiana, Maryland, Michigan State and Rutgers, and less Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Already get Ohio State every year, and will add Michigan, which is a plus, but I see more downside from a quality-of-schedule standpoint.
Overall, I'm for a 10th conference dual, though again, there's an overall schedule consequence ... if it happens and matches Willie's tweet.
Overall, I'm for a 10th conference dual, though again, there's an overall schedule consequence ... if it happens and matches Willie's tweet.
Anyone know when the schedule will come out?
Seems like you would end up with two undefeated conference dual teams most years.
I read it as:
- Every team will face its 5 intra-division rivals every year.
- Every team will have 2 cross-division rivals, that they will face every year.
- The total number of B10 duals was not in Willie's tweet -- but presumably would be greater than 7. Therefore, the cross-division matches (other than the designated rivals) would rotate.
- Rotation frequency not listed in Willie's tweet.
In PSU terms: we could have (for example) Iowa and Wisconsin as our designated cross-division rivals. We would face the other 4 teams on a rotating basis.
If B10 had 9 duals and rotated cross-division teams annually, then we would face the other 4 teams once every 2 years.
@smalls103 -- can you clarify?
Intra-division rivals would be six, so the number of duals is now eight (six, plus the two from the opposing division).
You're correct, not sure how the teams from the opposing conference would be scheduled. I assumed a rotation, but my model was at least one and maybe two duals short.
Would there be a team conference championship dual like with football?
It looks like the East division is more top heavy while the West is more balanced. Maryland, Indiana and MSU definitely not as competitive as the West's three weakest teams, IMO.
yes, Jefe. (you're the man btw).
What i'm told is 6 division duals. 2 cross duals. that's 8.
there are murmurs about and end of the year duals event where the B1G East #1 wrestles the B1G West #1 and so on down the line. 1 dual.
What i'm told is 6 division duals. 2 cross duals. that's 8.
there are murmurs about and end of the year duals event where the B1G East #1 wrestles the B1G West #1 and so on down the line. 1 dual.
I hope not, unless the NCAA grants a waiver against the # of competition dates. And even then ...
If we wanted to face Iowa a 4th time every year, we could go to Midlands.
Definitely perennial top 10.
As it is, the three bottom teams from this season's tournament (Rutgers, Indiana and Maryland) and the 10th place team (MSU) are in the East. West is much, much better top to bottom.
The murmurs I've heard are what Willie said: Six duals in division, two crossover duals, plus a "dual championship weekend", where each team wrestles the team that finished in the same place in the opposite division, in a single location (to allow for flights and hotels to be booked in advance)...for example, given that the 2014 Big Ten Championships were held there, and 2014+7 is 2021, the dual championship would be held in Madison, for those wanting to book tickets.
In that scenario over each 7 year period we would wrestle each team in the West Division twice, so Iowa (and Minny, Wisconin, Nebby, etc.) only only 2 out of every 7 years and we get to replace that with wrestling MD, Rutgers, & MSU EVERY year. I MUCH prefer the current rotation.
Plus one dual against the team that finished in the same spot in the division. If you guys and Iowa both win your divisions every year, you'd wrestle them every year in addition to those two in every seven...
If we can have a season next year I don't care who we wrestle.
So we have the national duals format in the big ten, but its all on one weekend at a single school? This is a great idea. Although not seeing Iowa, Minny, nebby is disappointing. But it does allow for a build up over the whole season.
I like the idea.
I further like the idea because if it is successful, other conferences may do something similar and we could get a true national duals play in tournament.
Timing is of course the issue and injuries that could hurt the natty c's
Is this just another excuse for Iowa to run. Do you think the brands will try and not be one of the two main rivals of psu how will they decide that I wonder. Wouldn't be bad if we could wrestle Minny and Iowa every year. Maybe Wisconsin
Willie's responses above lead me to think that there won't be 2 designated "rivals" from the other division. Just the 2 schools that happen to rotate in that year.
Which means we'd get Iowa once every 3 years, except when we meet at B10 Duals.
If they win their division, they earn the right to face us.
What are the chances 2 Big 10 teams in different divisions can schedule a dual in one of their open nonconference slots? Taboo?
I don't like it(not that I know what it is yet). Wrestling doesn't have the biggest fan base so the B10 needs to make sure that the best teams wrestle every year no matter what. Those matches shouldn't depend on a rotating schedule or a somewhat meaningless dual championship. Then again, I'll watch it however they put it out there.
It has been done, so I don't think it is taboo. It wouldn't count toward your conference record though.
I would like to see more PSU/Iowa, not less, so I don't like the new proposed setup.
Would Tommy really send out a backup or 3 to throw a division dual to avoid an ass kicking from Cael?
Ugh - I hate this idea.
Splitting the conference into two divisions makes sense for football due to the conference being able to gain a big money-maker with a B1G Championship Game, which also helps to position the B1G champion into the National Championship Playoff conversation. But, wrestling is a different sport with a different scenario for the conference and national champion. The B1G dictating the league matches for wrestling is the main reason that wrestling has regular season co-champs in some years and that fans miss out on PSU vs Iowa- the two biggest names in the sport- every season. If the B1G didn't dictate a few required dual opponents to each team every season, I have very little doubt that the top teams would seek out duals with the other top teams. A conference split will only worsen this issue.
The NWCA continues to try to find ways to have a Dual Meet National Championship - and I just don't understand why they want it so badly. Dual meet attendance across the country has never been so strong. Each season more teams are setting attendance records for individual meets and for their season totals. Coaches today are promoting their duals better than ever before. The top duals that the B1G shows on their network are getting the best viewing numbers that they ever have. The NCAA tournament sells out more quickly every season and all sessions are broadcast on one of the ESPN channels to great viewing numbers. Yet, the NWCA still continues to push a change with the addition of a dual meet championship. I don't understand it.
If the NWCA wants to have an impact on the growth and sustainability of the sport on a national level they should focus on increasing participation and the better execution of youth wrestling.
The fact that Cael opted out of the National Duals- and now the NWCA All Star match- has led to the slow demise of each of these events. If the NWCA has a #1 enemy, it is Cael Sanderson. A couple of years ago, I had a conversation with one of the high-ranking individuals within the NWCA. Since their office is located about an hour from State College, I asked if this former college wrestler goes to many Penn State matches. He said that he's never been to one and had no desire. I was shocked. I talked about the electric environment of Rec Hall, the fun style of PSU wrestling, the great fan support, and how even non-wrestling people enjoy matches at Penn State. He stared at me with a forced smile but not a word. When I asked which college teams he liked, he named coaches who happen to be the most vocal supporters of the NWCA. At that point it was obvious that the NWCA doesn't care as much about the strength and support of NCAA wrestling as it does about the strength and support of the NWCA.
I would bet dollars to donuts that the NWCA is pushing this with the B1G, with the end game eventually being a dual meet national championship.
Splitting the conference into two divisions makes sense for football due to the conference being able to gain a big money-maker with a B1G Championship Game, which also helps to position the B1G champion into the National Championship Playoff conversation. But, wrestling is a different sport with a different scenario for the conference and national champion. The B1G dictating the league matches for wrestling is the main reason that wrestling has regular season co-champs in some years and that fans miss out on PSU vs Iowa- the two biggest names in the sport- every season. If the B1G didn't dictate a few required dual opponents to each team every season, I have very little doubt that the top teams would seek out duals with the other top teams. A conference split will only worsen this issue.
The NWCA continues to try to find ways to have a Dual Meet National Championship - and I just don't understand why they want it so badly. Dual meet attendance across the country has never been so strong. Each season more teams are setting attendance records for individual meets and for their season totals. Coaches today are promoting their duals better than ever before. The top duals that the B1G shows on their network are getting the best viewing numbers that they ever have. The NCAA tournament sells out more quickly every season and all sessions are broadcast on one of the ESPN channels to great viewing numbers. Yet, the NWCA still continues to push a change with the addition of a dual meet championship. I don't understand it.
If the NWCA wants to have an impact on the growth and sustainability of the sport on a national level they should focus on increasing participation and the better execution of youth wrestling.
The fact that Cael opted out of the National Duals- and now the NWCA All Star match- has led to the slow demise of each of these events. If the NWCA has a #1 enemy, it is Cael Sanderson. A couple of years ago, I had a conversation with one of the high-ranking individuals within the NWCA. Since their office is located about an hour from State College, I asked if this former college wrestler goes to many Penn State matches. He said that he's never been to one and had no desire. I was shocked. I talked about the electric environment of Rec Hall, the fun style of PSU wrestling, the great fan support, and how even non-wrestling people enjoy matches at Penn State. He stared at me with a forced smile but not a word. When I asked which college teams he liked, he named coaches who happen to be the most vocal supporters of the NWCA. At that point it was obvious that the NWCA doesn't care as much about the strength and support of NCAA wrestling as it does about the strength and support of the NWCA.
I would bet dollars to donuts that the NWCA is pushing this with the B1G, with the end game eventually being a dual meet national championship.
I don't hate the idea if it results in a B1G dual championship between the divisions, as some here are suggesting, because then we'd probably get an Iowa PSU dual more often than is presently the case, assuming the quality of both teams remains the same.
I imagine that if you looked back ten years and ran the numbers assuming this format was in place, Iowa and PSU would probably have won their hypothetical divisions and thus faced each other in a conference dual championship, with Ohio State
I guess the question is what drops out if you're suddenly squeezing in another championship (with travel) the week before the traditional conference tournaments (travel) followed by the NCAAs (travel). Seems like you're going to have to either trim duals or perhaps kill the traditional conference tournament.
I'd not be entirely opposed to replacing the conference tournament with this. On the one hand guys who would presently wrestle 3 or 4 matches (at a conference tournament) would instead wrestle 1, but a conference championship based on duals is a better reflection of the "regular season" and so perhaps more fitting to end it as a team.
Or maybe you combine the dual and traditional conference championship into a single event by doing the dual championship on day one, and the traditional on day two, but narrow down day two to only, say, the top 8 seeds.
I imagine that if you looked back ten years and ran the numbers assuming this format was in place, Iowa and PSU would probably have won their hypothetical divisions and thus faced each other in a conference dual championship, with Ohio State
I guess the question is what drops out if you're suddenly squeezing in another championship (with travel) the week before the traditional conference tournaments (travel) followed by the NCAAs (travel). Seems like you're going to have to either trim duals or perhaps kill the traditional conference tournament.
I'd not be entirely opposed to replacing the conference tournament with this. On the one hand guys who would presently wrestle 3 or 4 matches (at a conference tournament) would instead wrestle 1, but a conference championship based on duals is a better reflection of the "regular season" and so perhaps more fitting to end it as a team.
Or maybe you combine the dual and traditional conference championship into a single event by doing the dual championship on day one, and the traditional on day two, but narrow down day two to only, say, the top 8 seeds.
With the disclaimer that I just threw that out there, it's nothing anyone is actually proposing (nor do I think they would), I'll say yeah, it would be a sea change, so NCAA qualifiers would have to be determined by regular season performance.
Definitely perennial top 10.
As it is, the three bottom teams from this season's tournament (Rutgers, Indiana and Maryland) and the 10th place team (MSU) are in the East. West is much, much better top to bottom.
That doesn't take into account the fact that Rutgers is an up and coming program. Boom!
Sounds a lot like this....
https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/schedule-suggestion.255510/#post-4546151
https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/schedule-suggestion.255510/#post-4546151
If, in fact, the ninth dual (1 vs 1, 2 vs 2 ….) could be accomplished by mid-February, the schedule would be interesting. Just looking at the current strengths of teams those ninth duals would be good ones with, for example, Iowa v PSU, Minny v tOSU, Nebraska v Michigan, … Things would change from year to year, but the resulting duals would be good ones. I like the idea of each dual being hosted individually by a home team as opposed to them all being at one location.
One more drawback I see to this proposal would be that you could end up wrestling a team in the other division twice in a season without wrestling some of the teams in the other division once. Say PSU and Iowa have a dual as one of the 8 scheduled ones, but PSU doesn't wrestle Nebraska. Then PSU and a one loss Iowa team finish first in their divisions. PSU would end up beating Iowa a second time in the ninth dual, but would never see Nebraska that season.
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