An open letter to the incoming President of the NCAA

[Obliviax]

This is an excellent review of the stunning legal losses the NCAA has suffered as well as more losses to come. Last month, I high court ruled that college athletes are "employees", which is a complete game changer.

Summary? Amature college sports are over, at least as we once knew it. Players will be declared employees shortly, and be subject to the National Labor Relations Act/Board. This will likely result in the players unionizing and negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. This is probably the best likely outcome because without a CBA, college football will be the wild, wild west with kids transferring mid-season on quitting during games.

An Open Letter to Incoming NCAA President Charlie Baker

If Charlie Baker doesn't lead the NCAA to a major redesign of amateurism, judges and government officials will do it for him

www.sportico.com

 

[Erial_Lion]

And once they need to find $ to pay all these “employees”, say goodbye to most sports outside of football, basketball, and maybe hockey/baseball (or at least, they will look very different).

I don’t see this as something that is a good outcome for the overall model.

 

[Obliviax]

And once they need to find $ to pay all these “employees”, say goodbye to most sports outside of football, basketball, and maybe hockey/baseball (or at least, they will look very different).

I don’t see this as something that is a good outcome for the overall model.

Well, I don't disagree. On the other hand, football players drive the majority of revenue while putting their long-term health at risk while not getting commensurate returns. I suspect that, in the next five years, we will see a collective bargaining agreement with a lot better framework and stability. Sometimes lack of stability is worse than a bad outcome. At least with a bad outcome, you can manage around it.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Well, I don't disagree. On the other hand, football players drive the majority of revenue while putting their long-term health at risk while not getting commensurate returns. I suspect that, in the next five years, we will see a collective bargaining agreement with a lot better framework and stability. Sometimes lack of stability is worse than a bad outcome. At least with a bad outcome, you can manage around it.

I don’t completely disagree that football players deserve more…will just suck when that means no more soccer, wrestling, volleyball, etc (or if they exist, it’s much more regional and being played at the club level).

 

[Obliviax]

I don’t completely disagree that football players deserve more…will just suck when that means no more soccer, wrestling, volleyball, etc (or if they exist, it’s much more regional and being played at the club level).

A big issue will be Title IX.

Sports will need to be self-financed. So there is a shot that selling tickets to wrestling and volleyball can sustain the sport. The challenge is that schools have to mirror their 90ish football scholarships with women's 'ships. So you end up getting schools giving out 'ships to underserving women just to staff women's sports that nobody cares about. (TV star Lori Loughlin getting her daughter a 'ship offer for the USC women's rowing team). Will Title IX change if football is no longer a 'ship student but a university employee? IDK.

 

[ryoder1]

And once they need to find $ to pay all these “employees”, say goodbye to most sports outside of football, basketball, and maybe hockey/baseball (or at least, they will look very different).

I don’t see this as something that is a good outcome for the overall model.

Other sports will hang around. A cross country runner for example will still want to participate in their sport and compete. There will be ways for these sports to still exist. The point would not be to eliminate sports, that hurts the athletes. All of this is designed to help the athletes.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Other sports will hang around. A cross country runner for example will still want to participate in their sport and compete. There will be ways for these sports to still exist. The point would not be to eliminate sports, that hurts the athletes. All of this is designed to help the athletes.

I'm saying that if they exist, I assume they'll look a lot different. Are we still flying our cross country runners around the country to compete, or are they more like a club team and are now competing against schools like Bucknell and Clarion?

Our Wrestling program might be able to generate interest, but how many other schools keep wrestling if it's a huge financial drain on them? I don't see women's volleyball flying around the midwest every week playing games if they are non-scholarship and we're finding ways to pay our football/basketball athletes. Heck, with the drain that women's basketball is on most athletic departments, where does that land?

 

[ryoder1]

I'm saying that if they exist, I assume they'll look a lot different. Are we still flying our cross country runners around the country to compete, or are they more like a club team and are now competing against schools like Bucknell and Clarion?

Our Wrestling program might be able to generate interest, but how many other schools keep wrestling if it's a huge financial drain on them? I don't see women's volleyball flying around the midwest every week playing games if they are non-scholarship and we're finding ways to pay our football/basketball athletes. Heck, with the drain that women's basketball is on most athletic departments, where does that land?

Not sure how much air travel is involved with these minor sports like cross country, track and field or golf for example. Many of these minor sports have a budget that is a fraction of a fraction vs the football program. We live in a big world with college kids participating in many sports. They will figure out the right balance for these athletes to compete and have meaningful competitive sports experiences. I should call them student athletes if they are not football or basketball players.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Not sure how much air travel is involved with these minor sports like cross country, track and field or golf for example. Many of these minor sports have a budget that is a fraction of a fraction vs the football program. We live in a big world with college kids participating in many sports. They will figure out the right balance for these athletes to compete and have meaningful competitive sports experiences. I should call them student athletes if they are not football or basketball players.

For example, our men's golf team had a schedule this year of...

Durham, NC
Winstom-Salem, NC
Jersey City, NJ
Vero Beach, FL
Palm Coast, FL
Gainesville, FL
Bluffton, SC
Sea Island, SC
State College, PA
Columbus, OH
Galloway, NJ

Take away football $, and I'm sure that schedule looks MUCH different.

 

[tlbakernc]

This is an excellent review of the stunning legal losses the NCAA has suffered as well as more losses to come. Last month, I high court ruled that college athletes are "employees", which is a complete game changer.

Summary? Amature college sports are over, at least as we once knew it. Players will be declared employees shortly, and be subject to the National Labor Relations Act/Board. This will likely result in the players unionizing and negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. This is probably the best likely outcome because without a CBA, college football will be the wild, wild west with kids transferring mid-season on quitting during games.

An Open Letter to Incoming NCAA President Charlie Baker

If Charlie Baker doesn't lead the NCAA to a major redesign of amateurism, judges and government officials will do it for him

www.sportico.com

💯 agree! Unionizing is the only way we have a chance a leveling the playfield for college athletics.

 

[baircub1!]

A big issue will be Title IX.

Sports will need to be self-financed. So there is a shot that selling tickets to wrestling and volleyball can sustain the sport. The challenge is that schools have to mirror their 90ish football scholarships with women's 'ships. So you end up getting schools giving out 'ships to underserving women just to staff women's sports that nobody cares about. (TV star Lori Loughlin getting her daughter a 'ship offer for the USC women's rowing team). Will Title IX change if football is no longer a 'ship student but a university employee? IDK.

You bring up a very intriguing point.. “ Will Title IX change ?” If athletes now become employees..

 

[psu00]

And once they need to find $ to pay all these “employees”, say goodbye to most sports outside of football, basketball, and maybe hockey/baseball (or at least, they will look very different).

I don’t see this as something that is a good outcome for the overall model.

Exactly and with Title 9 there will be cuts to sports you wouldn’t expect at many places. You think wrestling will be fine at Penn St but what about when other universities which, for the most part, already run in the red start to drop it? Does a sport like wrestling or volleyball survive when most other schools drop it? Football players will love it, but is it a good move when it starts to decrease the opportunities for athletes in other sports in the bigger picture? There are always unintended consequences that people never think about.

 

[heckmans]

This is an excellent review of the stunning legal losses the NCAA has suffered as well as more losses to come. Last month, I high court ruled that college athletes are "employees", which is a complete game changer.

Summary? Amature college sports are over, at least as we once knew it. Players will be declared employees shortly, and be subject to the National Labor Relations Act/Board. This will likely result in the players unionizing and negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. This is probably the best likely outcome because without a CBA, college football will be the wild, wild west with kids transferring mid-season on quitting during games.

An Open Letter to Incoming NCAA President Charlie Baker

If Charlie Baker doesn't lead the NCAA to a major redesign of amateurism, judges and government officials will do it for him

www.sportico.com

If I'm Dwayne Johnson, I'd be looking at ways to make the XFL an NBA G-League type of outfit. Today, CFB has a huge market baked into the alumni bases, which makes NIL lucrative, but much as we have HS basketball players that want nothing to do with college and take a G-league paycheck, it would seem the XFL may have a better chance of survival as a D-League for HS athletes that don't have NFL bodies yet and don't want to "Play School." With the NFL's requirement to be 3 years out of HS, it could be an attractive option for kids that don't want to go to college.

 

[ryoder1]

For example, our men's golf team had a schedule this year of...

Durham, NC
Winstom-Salem, NC
Jersey City, NJ
Vero Beach, FL
Palm Coast, FL
Gainesville, FL
Bluffton, SC
Sea Island, SC
State College, PA
Columbus, OH
Galloway, NJ

Take away football $, and I'm sure that schedule looks MUCH different.

Road trips in the Buick!

 

[LMTLION]

💯 agree! Unionizing is the only way we have a chance a leveling the playfield for college athletics.

Ok, well leveling the playing field may not help PSU. We are among the very fortunate with NIL. I think NIL helped level the playing field in terms of PSU competing with the southern schools who illegally gave out boatloads of cash in the past.

 

[psu00]

Let’s not forget that facility upgrades start to be dropped quickly if this is the future. Most schools operate in the red now. Take away more of their athletic department funding that now needs to be funneled into athlete salaries and forget the $X million upgrades to the womens softball or field hockey fields etc.

As an aside, does this now mean that high school athletes are now “employees” of their high schools? Grade school athletes are “employees” of their grade school? Might run into some child labor law issues there. .

 

[joeaubie21]

When is a free education, housing and food not "pay"?

 

[The Spin Meister]

If I'm Dwayne Johnson, I'd be looking at ways to make the XFL an NBA G-League type of outfit. Today, CFB has a huge market baked into the alumni bases, which makes NIL lucrative, but much as we have HS basketball players that want nothing to do with college and take a G-league paycheck, it would seem the XFL may have a better chance of survival as a D-League for HS athletes that don't have NFL bodies yet and don't want to "Play School." With the NFL's requirement to be 3 years out of HS, it could be an attractive option for kids that don't want to go to college.

Will be interesting to see how it develops. If they take kids straight out of high schools they will have to hedge restricted divisions. Having 18 yr olds playing against guys in late 20s puts kid at high risk of injury.

A couple future stars have their careers ended before they are 20 would do serious damage to the league and cause kids to rethink playing early.

 

[RickinDayton]

This is an excellent review of the stunning legal losses the NCAA has suffered as well as more losses to come. Last month, I high court ruled that college athletes are "employees", which is a complete game changer.

Summary? Amature college sports are over, at least as we once knew it. Players will be declared employees shortly, and be subject to the National Labor Relations Act/Board. This will likely result in the players unionizing and negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. This is probably the best likely outcome because without a CBA, college football will be the wild, wild west with kids transferring mid-season on quitting during games.

An Open Letter to Incoming NCAA President Charlie Baker

If Charlie Baker doesn't lead the NCAA to a major redesign of amateurism, judges and government officials will do it for him

www.sportico.com

I think if this is enacted, college sports collapses under the weight of the financial burden. Of course the state and fed govt's will expect their tax revenue. Will it be worth following any team if this becomes law?

 

[87 Penn St8]

I think if this is enacted, college sports collapses under the weight of the financial burden. Of course the state and fed govt's will expect their tax revenue. Will it be worth following any team if this becomes law?

All voices in this thread are correct. The roles of employee status, Title 9 and department budgets are all intertwined. Another big question is the role of sports within the educational experience. Most of us on this board would likely tout the value of teamwork, discipline, community pride and physical fitness as reasons to keep school sports not just in college, but also at the high school level.

Outside of football, the AAU or travel teams seem to be the more important organizations for the better athletes where I teach. Those games and coaches are their priorities. As Educational funding becomes even more tight in order to meet every students' needs (Special Ed is the largest and fastest growing department at our school) the allocation of sports dollars is a logical and well funded source (which I don't like but would understand).

In college if you silo the money into an Athletic Department and require a "fair" distribution amongst genders, at least some female non revenue sports survive. U of Delaware got rid of Men's track but kept a Women's team to balance vs football...much to the benefit of some pole vaulters from our school who train there and earned athletic scholarships to UD.

It is strange that at a time when progress is being made in areas of investment and compensation for Women's soccer, that other movements could eliminate many scholarships at the University level and in time, change the landscape in all high schools around the country.

Just my opinion...but the begininng of the end is here...all in the name of "fairness." As one poster stated: since when is a free college tuition plus room and board not compensation? The NCAA screwed themselves, and everyone else too. It will be interesting to see how this goes...

 

[RickinDayton]

All voices in this thread are correct. The roles of employee status, Title 9 and department budgets are all intertwined. Another big question is the role of sports within the educational experience. Most of us on this board would likely tout the value of teamwork, discipline, community pride and physical fitness as reasons to keep school sports not just in college, but also at the high school level.

Outside of football, the AAU or travel teams seem to be the more important organizations for the better athletes where I teach. Those games and coaches are their priorities. As Educational funding becomes even more tight in order to meet every students' needs (Special Ed is the largest and fastest growing department at our school) the allocation of sports dollars is a logical and well funded source (which I don't like but would understand).

In college if you silo the money into an Athletic Department and require a "fair" distribution amongst genders, at least some female non revenue sports survive. U of Delaware got rid of Men's track but kept a Women's team to balance vs football...much to the benefit of some pole vaulters from our school who train there and earned athletic scholarships to UD.

It is strange that at a time when progress is being made in areas of investment and compensation for Women's soccer, that other movements could eliminate many scholarships at the University level and in time, change the landscape in all high schools around the country.

Just my opinion...but the begininng of the end is here...all in the name of "fairness." As one poster stated: since when is a free college tuition plus room and board not compensation? The NCAA screwed themselves, and everyone else too. It will be interesting to see how this goes...

Excellent summary of all our concerns. I agree, this is the beginning of the end.It is a sad to watch the slow demolition.

 

[jayhawks65]

When is a free education, housing and food not "pay"?

Those days ended in the 60s. This is a billion dollar game and the people putting their bodies on the line deserve a fair share of the money. PSU defensive coridinator makes a million dollars a year. Head coach 7 million but it is a problem if the QB makes 100 thousand dollars.

 

[ryoder1]

I love college football but it is annoying as hell to think about football ruining it for the other student athletes. Yes, I am guilty of being much more interested in PSU football or basketball vs track and field, women's lacrosse or cross country. However, we have to keep these sports alive and let them thrive. Not water down the experience for the student athletes because all the money goes to football or even men's basketball.

The students in these minor sports are the true student athletes, not the football players. Most of the football players are majoring in football. What is Drew Allar, Nick Singleton, Theo Johnson, et al even majoring in? I am not saying they are not bright kids. But it is frustrating that just because their sport is a cash cow money maker they get placed way above these other legitimate student athletes. These administrators have got to figure this out. You can't stop NIL so you have to deal with that and not penalize other hard working student athletes.

 

[ryoder1]

I love college football but it is annoying as hell to think about football ruining it for the other student athletes. Yes, I am guilty of being much more interested in PSU football or basketball vs track and field, women's lacrosse or cross country. However, we have to keep these sports alive and let them thrive. Not water down the experience for the student athletes because all the money goes to football or even men's basketball.

The students in these minor sports are the true student athletes, not the football players. Most of the football players are majoring in football. What is Drew Allar, Nick Singleton, Theo Johnson, et al even majoring in? I am not saying they are not bright kids. But it is frustrating that just because their sport is a cash cow money maker they get placed way above these other legitimate student athletes. These administrators have got to figure this out. You can't stop NIL so you have to deal with that and not penalize other hard working student athletes.

And yes I know these football players are contributing to helping PSU make all this money. We share in the B10 new TV mega deal because of football. Pay them with NIL. I am fine with that. But don't then go tell the women's field hockey team you will only be a club sport and no real scholarship money is available. Like the football players work harder than a women's field hockey player? Do NOT rob these true student athletes of life enhancing sports experiences that will aid them throughout their lives.

 

[joeaubie21]

Those days ended in the 60s. This is a billion dollar game and the people putting their bodies on the line deserve a fair share of the money. PSU defensive coridinator makes a million dollars a year. Head coach 7 million but it is a problem if the QB makes 100 thousand dollars.

It's still pay.

 

[joeaubie21]

Those days ended in the 60s. This is a billion dollar game and the people putting their bodies on the line deserve a fair share of the money. PSU defensive coridinator makes a million dollars a year. Head coach 7 million but it is a problem if the QB makes 100 thousand dollars.

Pay, and down the commode goes the game.

 

[87 Penn St8]

Pay, and down the commode goes the game.

I agree the pay can be variable based on revenue generated by sport and maybe star players. Kids deserve more than they get. Coaches get paid too well for glorified gym teachers.

Adjusting it by performance per player on a game by game basis could be problematic...."do I pass for an easy 2 or shoot a 3 to earn an extra $5000 for myself with a double/double?"

I'd bet the Ivys/Little Iys/Patriot League etc still field competitive vs each other as part of a Liberal Arts education...and they have the endowments to do so without big fan attendance revenues.

What does it mean for PSU? In my opinion not good things....

 

[jayhawks65]

Pay, and down the commode goes the game.

They should have been paid for the last 30 years. PSU 🏈 is not going anywhere. I have no problem with the workers enjoying a bit of the millions of dollars they provide to the university. Only seems fair to me.

 

[PSUeng]

They should have been paid for the last 30 years. PSU 🏈 is not going anywhere. I have no problem with the workers enjoying a bit of the millions of dollars they provide to the university. Only seems fair to me.

So do you think the non-profitable teams should have players pay to play. Our school made hockey players pay due to the cost to get ice time

 

[joeaubie21]

Paying kids?

Forget it.

 

[AvgUser]

Those days ended in the 60s. This is a billion dollar game and the people putting their bodies on the line deserve a fair share of the money. PSU defensive coridinator makes a million dollars a year. Head coach 7 million but it is a problem if the QB makes 100 thousand dollars.

How much does the inside LB deserve? Or the holder? Why is it different, if it isn’t the same?

 

[KBFAN19]

And once they need to find $ to pay all these “employees”, say goodbye to most sports outside of football, basketball, and maybe hockey/baseball (or at least, they will look very different).

I don’t see this as something that is a good outcome for the overall model.

Cross country already has invitationals so 3 or 4 schools can run against each other at a time.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

This is an excellent review of the stunning legal losses the NCAA has suffered as well as more losses to come. Last month, I high court ruled that college athletes are "employees", which is a complete game changer.

Summary? Amature college sports are over, at least as we once knew it. Players will be declared employees shortly, and be subject to the National Labor Relations Act/Board. This will likely result in the players unionizing and negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. This is probably the best likely outcome because without a CBA, college football will be the wild, wild west with kids transferring mid-season on quitting during games.

An Open Letter to Incoming NCAA President Charlie Baker

If Charlie Baker doesn't lead the NCAA to a major redesign of amateurism, judges and government officials will do it for him

www.sportico.com

So what is the justification going to be for limiting student-athletes to 4.25 playing years if they're simply professional athlete employees, not students limited to 4.25 years of eligibility with a RS???