A question for baseball purists

[PearlSUJam]

Which I admittedly am not. Do stats even count anymore with changes such as this? The past year or 2 they supposedly juiced the ball now this year they are doing this and allowing humidors for teams besides the Rockies? Purists get their panties up in a bunch with putting players in the HOF because of PED's but then the MLB does things like this that can absolutely change the game dramatically from one season to the next.

So the teams that spent hundreds of millions to add power hitters to their squad the past few seasons now might have a roster with a bunch of guys with 15 HR's or guys with warning track power without knowing the baseball would change? I'd be beyond pissed if I were a GM as my job might be on the line because of this.

 

[bdgan]

Of course stats will still count. Remember when they lowered the pitching mound? Or when they extended the length of the season? Or when home runs used to land in fair territory to be counted fair?

 

[Obliviax]

View embedded media

Which I admittedly am not. Do stats even count anymore with changes such as this? The past year or 2 they supposedly juiced the ball now this year they are doing this and allowing humidors for teams besides the Rockies? Purists get their panties up in a bunch with putting players in the HOF because of PED's but then the MLB does things like this that can absolutely change the game dramatically from one season to the next.

So the teams that spent hundreds of millions to add power hitters to their squad the past few seasons now might have a roster with a bunch of guys with 15 HR's or guys with warning track power without knowing the baseball would change? I'd be beyond pissed if I were a GM as my job might be on the line because of this.

I am not sure I qualify as a baseball "purist" but this looks like MLB is trying to create some continuity between teams at different elevations and humidity (Arizona for example). The idea is to make playing in Pittsburgh similar to playing in Arizona. So I think this is the opposite of gaming the game.

 

[PearlSUJam]

I am not sure I qualify as a baseball "purist" but this looks like MLB is trying to create some continuity between teams at different elevations and humidity (Arizona for example). The idea is to make playing in Pittsburgh similar to playing in Arizona. So I think this is the opposite of gaming the game.

 

[PearlSUJam]

Of course stats will still count. Remember when they lowered the pitching mound? Or when they extended the length of the season? Or when home runs used to land in fair territory to be counted fair?

I just want the humidor balls when my team's pitching and the regular balls when hitting.

 

[soulkitchen74]

They need to do something because baseball is getting boring and loosing the next generations of fans. It's all walks, strikeouts, and homers. I also believe that the league will suffer in the decades to come without a new salary structure to increase parity. The players would fight the salary cap and so would some of the owners, but it needs to be seriously considered.

 

[bkmtnittany1]

I just want the humidor balls when my team's pitching and the regular balls when hitting.

I wonder what the Astros think?

 

[Cpeplion]

I am not sure I qualify as a baseball "purist" but this looks like MLB is trying to create some continuity between teams at different elevations and humidity (Arizona for example). The idea is to make playing in Pittsburgh similar to playing in Arizona. So I think this is the opposite of gaming the game.

So when the Rockies come play in Pittsburgh, are they gonna suck some oxygen out of the stadium so that it's more like play in Colorado?

 

[Cpeplion]

They need to do something because baseball is getting boring and loosing the next generations of fans. It's all walks, strikeouts, and homers. I also believe that the league will suffer in the decades to come without a new salary structure to increase parity. The players would fight the salary cap and so would some of the owners, but it needs to be seriously considered.

BS...dude, the freaking RAYS could have won the WS..the RAYS. Just because the Pirates are a dumpster fire year after year doesn't mean small market teams can't compete.

Also, The Nats can't afford Harper...next year they go out and win the WS. The Cards are a bad example now days but when they were winning the WS they never had the top payrolls in baseball.

 

[Obliviax]

So when the Rockies come play in Pittsburgh, are they gonna suck some oxygen out of the stadium so that it's more like play in Colorado?

I believe they are going to keep balls in the humidors so that they don't get damp or dry...they are consistent, like a cigar. The average life of a baseball is six pitches. So the ball boy gets them, gives them to the Ump, the ump uses them. They'll not be in the wild for more than five or ten minutes.

The idea isn't to change the atmosphere but to minimize the ball's density due to the atmosphere. It changes the game in several ways: Pitcher's grip, bite of the ball in flight from the mound to the plate, heaviness of the ball when hit, and compression.

It also helps teams to be more consistent for pitchers in places like Boston or Pittsburgh where you may get a no humidity day and then get a high humidity day the next. I know pitchers sometimes struggle to grip the ball on low humidity days.

 

[AWS1022]

Please MLB, do all you can to take as much offense out of the game as possible....that will help keep people watching.

 

[Obliviax]

BS...dude, the freaking RAYS could have won the WS..the RAYS. Just because the Pirates are a dumpster fire year after year doesn't mean small market teams can't compete.

Also, The Nats can't afford Harper...next year they go out and win the WS. The Cards are a bad example now days but when they were winning the WS they never had the top payrolls in baseball.

yes...but then they had to give up their two best pitchers. The measure really isn't who won the WS. It is about being able to build and keep a fan base. People come to the park to watch stars.

here is a case in point: Trevor Bauer was just signed by the dodgers for $41m next season. He is going to make more next season than the entire payrolls of PIrates, Indians and Baltimore. Right now, the Dodgers payroll is expected to be $234m. The league average is $114m.

 

[Cpeplion]

I believe they are going to keep balls in the humidors so that they don't get damp or dry...they are consistent, like a cigar. The average life of a baseball is six pitches. So the ball boy gets them, gives them to the Ump, the ump uses them. They'll not be in the wild for more than five or ten minutes.

The idea isn't to change the atmosphere but to minimize the ball's density due to the atmosphere. It changes the game in several ways: Pitcher's grip, bite of the ball in flight from the mound to the plate, heaviness of the ball when hit, and compression.

It also helps teams to be more consistent for pitchers in places like Boston or Pittsburgh where you may get a no humidity day and then get a high humidity day the next. I know pitchers sometimes struggle to grip the ball on low humidity days.

Yeah, I get it. just think its a lame thing to do. If they want to give pitchers an advantage, raise the mound back up. You realize the difference in the bite of the ball coming off a 15 inch mound as opposed to 10.

 

[Cpeplion]

yes...but then they had to give up their two best pitchers. The measure really isn't who won the WS. It is about being able to build and keep a fan base. People come to the park to watch stars.

here is a case in point: Trevor Bauer was just signed by the dodgers for $41m next season. T. Anyway, he is going to make more next season than the entire payrolls of PIrates, Indians and Baltimore. Right now, the Dodgers payroll is expected to be $234m. The league average is $114m.

No one comes to watch the Pirates because they have an inept front office that has blown their entire franchise for the past 30 years and has driven the fans away. No amount of salary cap or structure will make up for that.

 

[Obliviax]

No one comes to watch the Pirates because they have an inept front office that has blown their entire franchise for the past 30 years and has driven the fans away. No amount of salary cap or structure will make up for that.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The dodgers and Yankees blow $30m on a single player and then just buy another if he doesn't work out. If you don't see the difference in scale there is no longer reason to discuss it.

 

[Obliviax]

Yeah, I get it. just think its a lame thing to do. If they want to give pitchers an advantage, raise the mound back up. You realize the difference in the bite of the ball coming off a 15 inch mound as opposed to 10.

I don't think they are trying to give pitchers an advantage....I think they are trying to add consistency game in and game out regardless of location, weather or time of day.

 

[AWS1022]

I don't think they are trying to give pitchers an advantage....I think they are trying to add consistency game in and game out regardless of location, weather or time of day.

What other sport ever does that? Location and weather plays a part in all sports.

 

[BobPSU92]

I wonder if Tom Brady uses a humidor to avoid wild swings of his balls. 🤔

 

[Obliviax]

What other sport ever does that? Location and weather plays a part in all sports.

good question. I guess my first question back at you is why that matters? Baseball is a different sport, league. Other teams don't postpone games due to rain either. Why is consistency a problem and resisted?


Basketball for one, hockey for another. Football tries to but you can't change the weather (but you can build a dome, which is now common).

 

[wbcincy]

BS...dude, the freaking RAYS could have won the WS..the RAYS. Just because the Pirates are a dumpster fire year after year doesn't mean small market teams can't compete.

Also, The Nats can't afford Harper...next year they go out and win the WS. The Cards are a bad example now days but when they were winning the WS they never had the top payrolls in baseball.

Ok, if salary doesn't matter and it's just about how the organization is run, I'll take the top 10 payrolls, you get the rest. We'll bet $1,000 a year on who wins the World Series. Sound good? I mean the salary issue is just BS, right? After all [insert anecdote small market that pops up for a couple years and goes back to garbage because they have to sell everything off while the dodgers never have to do that; see Royals]

 

[wbcincy]

View embedded media

Which I admittedly am not. Do stats even count anymore with changes such as this? The past year or 2 they supposedly juiced the ball now this year they are doing this and allowing humidors for teams besides the Rockies? Purists get their panties up in a bunch with putting players in the HOF because of PED's but then the MLB does things like this that can absolutely change the game dramatically from one season to the next.

So the teams that spent hundreds of millions to add power hitters to their squad the past few seasons now might have a roster with a bunch of guys with 15 HR's or guys with warning track power without knowing the baseball would change? I'd be beyond pissed if I were a GM as my job might be on the line because of this.

As another poster mentioned earlier, it's tough to be a "purist" when the game has changed dramatically numerous times over the years. The ball used to be tied more loosely and wouldn't go as far. Blacks and hispanics couldn't even play the game for half its history. The mound was difference heights. The season was different lengths. Speed was taken and then wasn't. Steroids were taken and then...well. Stadiums had huge outfields then they got shrunken. Foul territory was huge and then narrow.

So any "purist" is fantasizing about a specific game that never was.

 

[Obliviax]

Ok, if salary doesn't matter and it's just about how the organization is run, I'll take the top 10 payrolls, you get the rest. We'll bet $1,000 a year on who wins the World Series. Sound good? I mean the salary issue is just BS, right? After all [insert anecdote small market that pops up for a couple years and goes back to garbage because they have to sell everything off while the dodgers never have to do that; see Royals]

Agreed....put another way....if it didn't matter, why would a business person spend $200m+ when they can get the same thing for $40m?

 

[yeahtoasty]

So when the Rockies come play in Pittsburgh, are they gonna suck some oxygen out of the stadium so that it's more like play in Colorado?

The Pirates do a good enough job of sucking the air out of that stadium just with the product on the field.

 

[psualt]

They are way overthinking this. Just let it alone. If the results are different due to weather or elevation who really cares?

 

[Woodpecker]

This is interesting

 

[PearlSUJam]

good question. I guess my first question back at you is why that matters? Baseball is a different sport, league. Other teams don't postpone games due to rain either. Why is consistency a problem and resisted?


Basketball for one, hockey for another. Football tries to but you can't change the weather (but you can build a dome, which is now common).

Let's just play all games in climate controlled domes at the same temperature and humidity with the exact same stadium dimensions and wall heights with the fan noise at the exact decibels at each stadium. They're way over thinking this and will end up killing the game.

MLB reportedly standardizes how all 30 teams will store baseballs in 2018

Data will be collected and then used to determine whether humidors are necessary in 2019

www.cbssports.com

 

[Obliviax]

Let's just play all games in climate controlled domes at the same temperature and humidity with the exact same stadium dimensions and wall heights with the fan noise at the exact decibels at each stadium. They're way over thinking this and will end up killing the game.

MLB reportedly standardizes how all 30 teams will store baseballs in 2018

Data will be collected and then used to determine whether humidors are necessary in 2019

www.cbssports.com

I think you are going overboard here. We are talking about putting a few humidifiers in the dugouts to add consistency to the game. For that matter, 40 years ago, there were no franchises in AZ or Denver.

 

[PearlSUJam]

Please MLB, do all you can to take as much offense out of the game as possible....that will help keep people watching.

Yeah, kids love watching a pitching duel with small ball.

 

[bison13]

Once they starting putting a new ball in play after a pitch in the dirt, the game changed. New inning = new ball as well. 30 years ago, a ball in the dirt went back to the pitcher, 3rd out of an inning it was rolled back out to the mound. Now its a new 'marble' every pitch almost.

Go back to using the same ball all teh time and HR's will go down

 

[PearlSUJam]

What other sport ever does that? Location and weather plays a part in all sports.

Well the Patriots did but that's another story.

 

[cjrugger]

Let's just play all games in climate controlled domes at the same temperature and humidity with the exact same stadium dimensions and wall heights with the fan noise at the exact decibels at each stadium. They're way over thinking this and will end up killing the game.

MLB reportedly standardizes how all 30 teams will store baseballs in 2018

Data will be collected and then used to determine whether humidors are necessary in 2019

www.cbssports.com

I think you're the one way overthinking this

 

[AWS1022]

good question. I guess my first question back at you is why that matters? Baseball is a different sport, league. Other teams don't postpone games due to rain either. Why is consistency a problem and resisted?


Basketball for one, hockey for another. Football tries to but you can't change the weather (but you can build a dome, which is now common).

Location in basketball does matter...ask players who used to play at Boston Gardens whether location mattered....there were dead spots on the floor, humidity on hot days caused all kinds of problems, lighting is different. My question back at you is why does it matter to the big wigs? Why shouldn’t there be differences based on ballparks and time of day? That’s part of the game.

 

[PearlSUJam]

Follow the science. 🤣

"Following the 2019 season, a committee of scientists commissioned by MLB came to the determination that the baseballs had less drag on average than in previous seasons, one of the reasons for the boost in home runs. The key to the boom? Inconsistencies in seam height.

MLB’s balls are hand-sewn by workers at the Rawlings factory in Costa Rica, which can result in minor deviations in production. The league requires all baseballs to have a coefficient of restitution (COR) -- in simple terms, the bounciness of the ball -- ranging from .530 to .570, but the average COR had trended toward the top of that range in recent years.

Rawlings has loosened the tension on the first of three wool windings within the ball. The company’s research believes this adjustment will bring the COR down slightly, while also lessening the ball’s weight by 2.8 grams without changing its size. According to the AP, MLB does not anticipate the weight change to impact pitchers’ velocity.

MLB’s memo did not mention anything about the drag of the new balls.

The AP also reported that the number of teams using humidors to store baseballs will double from five to 10 this season, keeping the balls in humidity-controlled storage areas. The Rockies, D-backs, Mariners, Mets and Red Sox already have humidors in their respective ballparks."

MLB to alter baseballs for '21 season

Major League Baseball will alter the baseball slightly in 2021, though changes to the ball will be subtle. According to the Associated Press, a memo sent to all 30 clubs last week cited an independent lab that found the new balls will fly one to two feet shorter on balls

www.mlb.com

 

[PearlSUJam]

That’s part of the game.

That's actually one of the best parts of the game. The Green Monster, Wrigley's ivy and wind, the snow flurries during the playoffs up North, the dripping humidity in Atlanta, etc. The differences in field size and weather variables are what sets it apart from other sports.

 

[cjrugger]

Ok, if salary doesn't matter and it's just about how the organization is run, I'll take the top 10 payrolls, you get the rest. We'll bet $1,000 a year on who wins the World Series. Sound good? I mean the salary issue is just BS, right? After all [insert anecdote small market that pops up for a couple years and goes back to garbage because they have to sell everything off while the dodgers never have to do that; see Royals]

No one is saying salary doesn't matter, but teams have shown that you can compete even when you're not the biggest payroll.

5 of the top 10 biggest payroll teams made the playoffs last year

11 of the bottom 20 made the playoffs

The Indians were 30th and the Marlins were 27th and both made the playoffs. Rays were 26th and made the World Series. Just because the 28th Orioles and 29th Pirates were terrible doesn't mean they can't be good, it means they made terrible decisions and/or made the decision to not even try

 

[LemonEars]

No one comes to watch the Pirates because they have an inept front office that has blown their entire franchise for the past 30 years and has driven the fans away. No amount of salary cap or structure will make up for that.

Pittsburgh can no longer support a major league baseball team. The only way they will ever be competitive again is if Nutting sells the team to a sugar daddy owner who spends hundreds of millions of dollars of his own money to build a team. Without a sugar daddy owner the Pirates should just move out of Pittsburgh. They can be replaced by a Triple A team, which Pittsburgh could support.

 

[heckmans]

BS...dude, the freaking RAYS could have won the WS..the RAYS. Just because the Pirates are a dumpster fire year after year doesn't mean small market teams can't compete.

Also, The Nats can't afford Harper...next year they go out and win the WS. The Cards are a bad example now days but when they were winning the WS they never had the top payrolls in baseball.

I don't think the evidence supports this at all.
Just like saying Star ratings in CFB aren't important because a 2-star becomes a star and gets drafted, pointing to a small market MLB club having some success as evidence a salary cap is irrelevant, just doesn't rate.
A simple review of World Series champions in the free agent era is dominated by big market teams. Sure the Rays "could have won" the WS, but they didn't. They lost 4-2 in 2020 and 4-1 in 2008.

Here is a Nielsen list of media markets by size.
https://www.lyonspr.com/latest-nielsen-dma-rankings/amp/

From 2000 to 2020, there are only 5 WS winners that fall out of the Top 10 media markets.
That's 16-5 (.762) for the big boys.
FWIW, the small market winners were:

Arizona ...... #12... 1 WS win
Miami ......... #16... 1 WS Win
St Louis ...... #21... 2 WS wins
Kansas Cty...#22... 1 WS Win

And that is using the top 10 as "big market".
If we take the top half vs the bottom half, it's 18-3 (.857)

 

[PearlSUJam]

Of course stats will still count. Remember when they lowered the pitching mound? Or when they extended the length of the season? Or when home runs used to land in fair territory to be counted fair?

 

[wbcincy]

No one is saying salary doesn't matter, but teams have shown that you can compete even when you're not the biggest payroll.

5 of the top 10 biggest payroll teams made the playoffs last year

11 of the bottom 20 made the playoffs

The Indians were 30th and the Marlins were 27th and both made the playoffs. Rays were 26th and made the World Series. Just because the 28th Orioles and 29th Pirates were terrible doesn't mean they can't be good, it means they made terrible decisions and/or made the decision to not even try

Yes, but you're ignoring that they can't do it consistently. Every year there's the anecdotes to point to, but among small markets, it's always changing, because as soon as a team is good enough to make the playoffs, they have to sell off. So even when the Royals do everything right and win a WS, they have to sell off everything and be awful for 6-7 years before they can compete again. And while they're rebuilding, the Rays come up and make it to the WS, and now they're having to sell off their top players. Next year I'm sure some other small market will step up and be the anecdote. So, sure, small markets can compete, but only in short windows, after which they have to give up their best players to the big markets and be bad again for years on end before the next window arises, and only if everything is done perfectly. You think that's good for the game? Or for fans?

 

[psrurock]

Many things are killing the game not just one factor. I hate analytics, but they have a purpose if used moderately. You'll notice steals are down, strikeouts are up and homeruns are way up. This makes for a much shorter length of time for games played, but entertainment value IMO is lost as a result.