2020-21 Premier League thread
- Thread starter Thus Spoke Mainer
- Start date
He joined my Reds at age 7 ??
Max Woltman signs first professional contract with Liverpool FC - Liverpool FC
Max Woltman signs first professional contract with Liverpool FC - Liverpool FC
MC 2-0 against AV, going to extra time. Played in a pouring rain, lots of opportunities but no goals until 78'. Some hoo-hah about MC being offsides on the first goal but I couldn't see it. MC very physical, a very fine team.
Really interesting play on that first goal...I’ll be interested to hear from more experienced referees if they think the crew definitely got it right.
MC is the clear cut favorite at this point with Liverpool's CB situation. They are starting to really click and are on cruise control.
I stepped away for a moment and had to wait for replay to see the goal. I didn’t have the best angle but saw nothing amiss.
Dean Smith with quite the postgame interview...if he was a Big Ten basketball coach, he'd be fined about $10 million for his comments...
"It's farcical...It's a pathetic rule, pathetic law, pathetic decision...he's treating me different than other managers there, other managers wouldn't get sent off for that"
"It's farcical...It's a pathetic rule, pathetic law, pathetic decision...he's treating me different than other managers there, other managers wouldn't get sent off for that"
Well, you know how I feel. Look, I know calls go both ways. Hell, Villa are still up in the Prem due to a goal that was never ruled a goal last year, so I can acknowledge that we benefitted greatly from a missed call last year.
That said....Villa were fleeced again, and the ref needs inquiry after this one. The player clearly didn't establish himself into an on side position before involving himself in the play. Why the referee did not go to VAR to check is beyond me. It just goes to show that when you face one of the Big 6, you are always playing against 12 men.
Still proud of how Villa played in this game. It was an exciting one to watch.
Dean Smith received a red card for arguing with the referee after the first goal. Does he miss the next match? I'm unsure how cards work against non-players.
That said....Villa were fleeced again, and the ref needs inquiry after this one. The player clearly didn't establish himself into an on side position before involving himself in the play. Why the referee did not go to VAR to check is beyond me. It just goes to show that when you face one of the Big 6, you are always playing against 12 men.
Still proud of how Villa played in this game. It was an exciting one to watch.
Dean Smith received a red card for arguing with the referee after the first goal. Does he miss the next match? I'm unsure how cards work against non-players.
wow, that's a tough one. The tweets that @Erial_Lion posted are inconclusive. If the defender established control of the ball, and then was dispossessed by Rodri, it would be legal. If the defender had not established control of the ball, and Rodri took the ball, then it would be offsides. What is considered control is somewhat subjective, which doesn't help for the refs and the VAR officials.
I'd have to see video, and not stills, to have a better sense of whether or not it was offsides, and even then it might not be conclusive.
And while I was keying in my reply, @Erial_Lion posted video. Based on that, it's really close, but I would be inclined to call offsides. Trapping the ball to the ground is playing it but not controlling it. The defender went to control it, and as he was doing so it was stolen. It really is right on the edge, but I'd have raised the flag if I was the AR.
FWIW, the replays I saw showed the play only AFTER the MC player stole the ball. So of course I said I didn’t see offsides.
that's actually not required. A player can be in an offside position, and attack a ball in possession by an opponent, without violating any rules. Since the ball was passed or shot by a teammate of the player in the offside position, if he attacks the ball before it's controlled by the defender, then he would be offsides based on active involvement. So it comes down to whether the defender trapping the ball to the ground and then touching it with his foot is considered to be in control or not by those two actions.
I just don't see control there, but I see it with Claret-colored glasses. It should have at least been reviewed by the head official, can we agree on that much?
It was offsides to me, and I have zero rooting interest either way...just texted a ref friend to get his thoughts that really knows his stuff
believe me, the refs are already chatting/debating it. The first two I sent the video to indicated they thought it was not offsides, but both thought it was really close.
To answer your question, I'd have to review the Premier League rules on whether the center can opt to review video on their own, or whether they have to wait for VAR officials to authorize it. VAR rules are in the FIFA rules, but 99% of refs never officiate a match where VAR is utilized, so it's a portion of the rules that most refs don't bother to learn.
He said it was the right call (he's a high-level PIAA guy that's done a State Championship, and does smaller college stuff too)...he said that the current interpretation of that play is that once the defender played it down to himself, it negates the offsides, even if he hasn't fully controlled the ball...that it's a pretty black/white play and there isn't much judgment on whether or not to call it.
So, I guess it's more the rule/interpretation that I hate, and not the call itself.
Last year, Liverpool was playing the best soccer I’d ever seen. Is there a consensus on why their level of play has dropped so significantly?
My own take. Without their CBs, teams saw that they are vulnerable to quick counter attacks. Every team seems to park the bus, also realizing that they are struggling right now to score on that defense. They are trying to be too cute in the box and now it's in their head. Some is also bad luck. They have accumulated something like 7 XGs since their last PL goal.
Injuries IMO is a huge part of it. Lose the top CB in the world and his partner and it will have an impact. The other issue is they simply cannot score right now which is odd as they are healthy there.
I have given this way too much thought:
1) As someone already noted, losing van Dijk is a killer. He is the best CB in the world. Liverpool's high press looks to funnel players into set areas which triggers a double team. Those areas, counter to what most teams have traditionally done are not in wide areas, but in the half spaces or, as the opponent advances into the middle third, directly in the center of the field. Funneling players inside allows space for their LB and RB to rampage up and down the wings with relative impunity and very little defensive responsibilities (more on that later). In addition to the best CB in the world being absent, frequently Liverpool has had to pull Henderson deeper and in some cases into a CB role. If you watch them play a lot, it becomes obvious that two players generally determine when to trigger their press. They are Firmino and Henderson. Henderson sitting deeper is murdering them.
2) Firmino is in the slump of his life. He has lost all confidence in the attacking third. Due to his importance to Klopp's defensive tactics, Liverpool really does not have a replacement for him. Their only option is to let him play through it. Firmino is one of my favorite players. The average fan has no idea how essential he is to everything Liverpool has been able to do over the last few years. The club made a mistake though by not buying at least some cover in case Firmino got injured or dipped in form.
3) It is just not possible to fully replace van Dijk. He is that good. He might be the best defensive player in the last 20 years. His presence allowed Alexander-Arnold and Robertson to bomb up and down the wings with almost no defensive role. Neither of them are very good defenders. When they are forced to defend, their attacking effectiveness dips. They still provide quality service, but it is not exactly the same world-class quality they have been getting. They have had to play deeper which forces Mane and Salah to play a bit deeper. Watch them and note in what areas they are pressing. It is just slightly deeper, maybe 5-10 yards, than in previous years. This makes a difference. There are a lot of isolated attacks instead of coordinated team movements happening.
4) The loss of fans hurts Liverpool as badly as any team in the Premier League. They have obviously still been winning at home, but they have not been as dominant. The average home field advantage in the Prem is about .3 goals a game. Liverpool's is closer to .5 in the last few years. Some of this is hard to quantify, but I really noticed a difference the other day against United. That stadium should have been a cauldron of seething hatred aimed at United from the second they got off the bus. That was the most boring Liverpool-United game I have ever seen.
5) And lastly, they are experiencing what City did last year. After two dominating years, it is really hard to maintain dominance. The rest of the league has improved.
In other news...Vardy is out for a few weeks for Leicester. DeBruyne is also going to be out 4-6 weeks for City. Two huge hits for those clubs. City has the depth to keep on winning, but it does bring them back to the pack as he is the motor that makes that team run. Same with Vardy.....hoping United can pick up a few points in the next month there.
There is some really good stuff in this thread today.
Man City struggled in the back last season with the loss of Laporte, similar to what Liverpool is seeing this year with the loss of van Dijk. Man City has sort of been able to replace the loss of Aguero up front for much of the season, but when you lose a top back, it can cascade throughout the entire team's play.
If DeBruyne is out for several weeks, that is another spot that is going to be difficult to replace. I still don't think Man City has quite been able to replace David Silva, and the additional loss of DeBruyne is huge. This EPL season has been fascinating so far, and it looks like it will remain so until the end.
Man City struggled in the back last season with the loss of Laporte, similar to what Liverpool is seeing this year with the loss of van Dijk. Man City has sort of been able to replace the loss of Aguero up front for much of the season, but when you lose a top back, it can cascade throughout the entire team's play.
If DeBruyne is out for several weeks, that is another spot that is going to be difficult to replace. I still don't think Man City has quite been able to replace David Silva, and the additional loss of DeBruyne is huge. This EPL season has been fascinating so far, and it looks like it will remain so until the end.
My two big guns currently on my fantasy team (after just losing Calvert-Lewin)...if I were Callum Wilson, I'd be pretty careful tomorrow (assuming he doesn't injure himself tonight).
Greatest moment in Spurs history
You click on the icon that looks like two rings linked together (7th option on top row, just right of the “T” with the arrow)...it allows you to add the link, and the text to go with it.
You click on the icon that looks like two rings linked together (7th option on top row, just right of the “T” with the arrow)...it allows you to add the link, and the text to go with it.
