The lack of fundamentals continue to frustrate

[lazydave841]

PSU has no signature win, but some dubious ones. UGA just paid the price for poor performance. Style points count.

Georgia has a signature win. 49 to 3 over a top 15 team. Best win currently of any top 10 team. Yet they get jumped by Bama who hasn't beaten anybody of note yet. So which is it? Signature wins or style points?

Winning is what matters. Georgia didn't pay a price. They have to lose twice to remotely be out of the playoff talk.

 

[YeOldeCup]

Georgia has a signature win. 49 to 3 over a top 15 team. Best win currently of any top 10 team. Yet they get jumped by Bama who hasn't beaten anybody of note yet. So which is it? Signature wins or style points?

Winning is what matters. Georgia didn't pay a price. They have to lose twice to remotely be out of the playoff talk.

They were demoted in the polls, not from the CFP.

And it's not an either/or -- it's both

 

[lazydave841]

They were demoted in the polls, not from the CFP.

You said something else about the polls...

 

[YeOldeCup]

You said something else about the polls...

Bowls -- not the CFP. We're not sniffing the latter.

 

[LandoComando]

Georgia has a signature win. 49 to 3 over a top 15 team. Best win currently of any top 10 team. Yet they get jumped by Bama who hasn't beaten anybody of note yet. So which is it? Signature wins or style points?

Winning is what matters. Georgia didn't pay a price. They have to lose twice to remotely be out of the playoff talk.

True--they do need 2 losses to be out but they were dropped for now because of the last two poor performances. Same reason we're the lowest ranked unbeaten that's even remotely a contender....unless you count TCU or Kansas.

 

[LandoComando]

Bowls -- not the CFP. We're not sniffing the latter.

Who cares about the bowls?

 

[olelion]

…ugly win and will take it. But could have been a walk-over but made way too many mental errors…again…and I hate to say it but we all know who owns it.

The play was pretty much as sloppy as the weather. What a surprise. Where the fumbles really hurt in my opinion was preventing them from pulling away in the game which would have allowed Allar some more time. The secondary once again played very well and this guy Sutton is going to be very very good. The youngsters are going into the Michigan game with some experience and that should improve our chances. This team will be special but I doubt that it will happen this year.

 

[bdgan]

…ugly win and will take it. But could have been a walk-over but made way too many mental errors…again…and I hate to say it but we all know who owns it.

Could have been a walkover but could easily have been a loss.

What if Singleton's first fumble at our own 5 yd line was not ruled dead.

What if NW held onto Clifford's pass?

What if our goal line stop was 6" less effective?

Fortunately PSU has a week to get it's act together.

 

[MacNit07]

Agree. PSU wanted no part of that game yesterday especially in the second half. Franklion’s teams do not play well in bad weather. They just don’t.

Seems like yesterday when the “elements” reared their head that gave PSU the advantage…not so with our new finesse brand…

That said, team has stood their ground fairly well this year. But still could not figure out how to translate game plan in bad weather.

 

[lazydave841]

Seems like yesterday when the “elements” reared their head that gave PSU the advantage…not so with our new finesse brand…

That said, team has stood their ground fairly well this year. But still could not figure out how to translate game plan in bad weather.

Just 2 less fumbles and we probably score 28-31 points in a very conservative game plan. Clifford wasn't asked to throw excessively, which if he had and done so negatively would have been murdered on here.

We can run the ball. We executed the 4 minute offense perfectly at the end and burnt out the clock to secure the win. And truth be told, we didn't really have to go deep in the playbook yet again. It's a perfectly cromulent type of win that many here have desired a Franklin coached team to perform. Once we do, still complaints.

 

[MacNit07]

Just 2 less fumbles and we probably score 28-31 points in a very conservative game plan. Clifford wasn't asked to throw excessively, which if he had and done so negatively would have been murdered on here.

We can run the ball. We executed the 4 minute offense perfectly at the end and burnt out the clock to secure the win. And truth be told, we didn't really have to go deep in the playbook yet again. It's a perfectly cromulent type of win that many here have desired a Franklin coached team to perform. Once we do, still complaints.

Agree…things are looking better for first time during this era…but someone needs to hold onto the GD ball…anybody

 

[ryoder1]

Could have been a walkover but could easily have been a loss.

What if Singleton's first fumble at our own 5 yd line was not ruled dead.

What if NW held onto Clifford's pass?

What if our goal line stop was 6" less effective?

Fortunately PSU has a week to get it's act together.

What if we have two less fumbles?

What if we didn't have the blown coverage on the NW TD?

 

[Waltwam]

I think everyone is reading too much into this game. We were never in doubt of losing and Franklin wasn't going to show anything to give Michigan more quality film on us. The kids have to hold onto the ball, Clifford has to play better and we have to limit the offsides. Other than that--this was just a vanilla game that we wanted to survive. It wasn't impressive but we knew that when we knew the weather forecast.

If you're complaining about the past 2 year then this game I get it--I just think this game is ht eworst game to pick to complain about this year.

Not sure if I agree we were never in danger of losing. I will tell you, I sure am glad we stopped them on the 1 yard line, or that game could've gone bad fast!

 

[lowhandicapper]

Does anyone in this thread understand what stopping 5 drives with turnovers does to your offense?
No seriously, does anyone understand this?
A football team averages between 12-15 offensive possessions a game. When you finish your drive with a turnover its a possession you will never get back. The game doesn't become longer because of it. So when you end a drive by giving the ball back between 30-40% of the time in a game, your chances to win are so low its probably not really quantifiable. Forget 3 and outs, to hand the ball over to the other team without the net gain of a punt is a huge, huge deal...Not to mention the psychological effect it may have on the player(s) who actual made the turnover.
Its akin to hitting a golf ball out of bounds for stroke and distance as opposed to hitting it into a red penalty area where you drop at the point of entry. Huge, huge disadvantage to lose the distance. Every 120 yards counts for stroke in golf per the averages of the course rating & handicap system. So when you hit a ball out of bounds from 240 yards away its really costing you about 4 strokes on average (1 for original ball, 1 for the penalty stroke, and 2 more based on the average of each stroke being 120 yards). This may be hard to follow but I can assure you its absolutely true from a stats and averages point of golf scoring based on the variables that the one shot from 240 yards produces over the course of 18 holes. So how would a similar philosophy relate to turning the ball over without the punt distance?

To turn the ball over 5 times and win by two scores is utterly astounding, regardless of the competition on the other side of the ball.

It's possible that the coaching staff should possibly be lauded for winning a disgustingly sloppy game by 2 two scores.

 

[Cowbell Man]

This is who Cliff is.He has been inconsistent for 6 years. I just hope he is consistent enough to win the big ones. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Well….if he’s consistent then it’s same inconsistent Clifford.

I’ll go with he’s inconsistent and fires up something we’ve never seen and blows away the field for the balance of the football year.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Does anyone in this thread understand what stopping 5 drives with turnovers does to your offense?
No seriously, does anyone understand this?
A football team averages between 12-15 offensive possessions a game. When you finish your drive with a turnover its a possession you will never get back. The game doesn't become longer because of it. So when you end a drive by giving the ball back between 30-40% of the time in a game, your chances to win are so low its probably not really quantifiable. Forget 3 and outs, to hand the ball over to the other team without the net gain of a punt is a huge, huge deal...Not to mention the psychological effect it may have on the player(s) who actual made the turnover.
Its akin to hitting a golf ball out of bounds for stroke and distance as opposed to hitting it into a red penalty area where you drop at the point of entry. Huge, huge disadvantage to lose the distance. Every 120 yards counts for stroke in golf per the averages of the course rating & handicap system. So when you hit a ball out of bounds from 240 yards away its really costing you about 4 strokes on average (1 for original ball, 1 for the penalty stroke, and 2 more based on the average of each stroke being 120 yards). This may be hard to follow but I can assure you its absolutely true from a stats and averages point of golf scoring based on the variables that the one shot from 240 yards produces over the course of 18 holes. So how would a similar philosophy relate to turning the ball over without the punt distance?

To turn the ball over 5 times and win by two scores is utterly astounding, regardless of the competition on the other side of the ball.

It's possible that the coaching staff should possibly be lauded for winning a disgustingly sloppy game by 2 two scores.

Agree with you regarding the probability of winning when you turn the ball over 5 times - it is precipitously low. Why I said in my original post on this topic that it is likely the first time PSU has won a game turning it over 5 times - let alone winning by a 2 score margin. Someone would have to have pretty complete records to research that topic - I'm sure there are not very many games where PSU turned it over 5 or more time, but however many there are, I'd be pretty surprised if PSU won any of them prior to this past Saturday.

 

[Woodpecker]

One fundamental that our punt returners haven't seem to have learned is to catch the ball in the air. Sure, there were a few that are such duds that they just can't get to them, but there were several in last week's game that they simply let drop. That cost them 10 - 20 yards a couple of times. I know that catching punts before they hit the ground was preached to us in junior high (sadly) over 50 years ago - I'm just amazed when DI football players fail to perform such a fundamental task.

 

[lowhandicapper]

Agree with you regarding the probability of winning when you turn the ball over 5 times - it is precipitously low. Why I said in my original post on this topic that it is likely the first time PSU has won a game turning it over 5 times - let alone winning by a 2 score margin. Someone would have to have pretty complete records to research that topic - I'm sure there are not very many games where PSU turned it over 5 or more time, but however many there are, I'd be pretty surprised if PSU won any of them prior to this past Saturday.

Getting a multiple ++ turnover margin versus your opponent is literally the blueprint for an upset. It's how it happens. Its how inferior teams beat teams better than them.
When Kansas beat Texas as 30 point dawg after losing 56 straight to them in 2021. They had a +4 turnover margin for the game.
When Montana beat Washington as a 22 point dawg they won with a +3 TO margin.
The fact PSU held NW to 8 yards on series following those turnovers is some of the most astounding performance you will ever find. For Penn State to have won that game by two scores is testament to how good this team actually is.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

Getting a multiple ++ turnover margin versus your opponent is literally the blueprint for an upset. It's how it happens. Its how inferior teams beat teams better than them.
When Kansas beat Texas as 30 point dawg after losing 56 straight to them in 2021. They had a +4 turnover margin for the game.
When Montana beat Washington as a 22 point dawg they won with a +3 TO margin.
The fact PSU held NW to 8 yards on series following those turnovers is some of the most astounding performance you will ever find. For Penn State to have won that game by two scores is testament to how good this team actually is.

Yea, that is pretty staggering. There is no doubt that the Defense won the game for us - this is especially true when you consider not only those stats, but the Defense also created three takeaways of their own to mitigate the offenses TOs to a net 2. An incredible performance by the PSU Defense and one of the big reasons I think we have a legit shot against scUM. People are talking about how incredible scUM has looked, but they really haven't played a good team yet - BTN is trying to talk up Maryland due to the very competitive game Maryland gave them @scUM, but "come on man!" this is Maryland were talking about! Maryland plays Purdue this weekend @home - I think we'll know a lot more about how good scUM is after this game (Maryland put up 400 yards of offense on scUM and even the FOX announcers said the incomplete pass that the Referines called an interception in scUM territory on a 1st-Down play with Maryland driving and having the lead). scUM looked very beatable in that Maryland game.

 

[MacNit07]

Does anyone in this thread understand what stopping 5 drives with turnovers does to your offense?
No seriously, does anyone understand this?
A football team averages between 12-15 offensive possessions a game. When you finish your drive with a turnover its a possession you will never get back. The game doesn't become longer because of it. So when you end a drive by giving the ball back between 30-40% of the time in a game, your chances to win are so low its probably not really quantifiable. Forget 3 and outs, to hand the ball over to the other team without the net gain of a punt is a huge, huge deal...Not to mention the psychological effect it may have on the player(s) who actual made the turnover.
Its akin to hitting a golf ball out of bounds for stroke and distance as opposed to hitting it into a red penalty area where you drop at the point of entry. Huge, huge disadvantage to lose the distance. Every 120 yards counts for stroke in golf per the averages of the course rating & handicap system. So when you hit a ball out of bounds from 240 yards away its really costing you about 4 strokes on average (1 for original ball, 1 for the penalty stroke, and 2 more based on the average of each stroke being 120 yards). This may be hard to follow but I can assure you its absolutely true from a stats and averages point of golf scoring based on the variables that the one shot from 240 yards produces over the course of 18 holes. So how would a similar philosophy relate to turning the ball over without the punt distance?

To turn the ball over 5 times and win by two scores is utterly astounding, regardless of the competition on the other side of the ball.

It's possible that the coaching staff should possibly be lauded for winning a disgustingly sloppy game by 2 two scores.

Possibly

 

[Callthestall]

This thread was posted about the frustration of the lack of fundamentals. The quarterback is where this area is glaring. Anyone that has watched Sean for 4 plus years sees his lack of fundamentals. It is glaring and even the coach talked about his poor performance. The knowledgeable fan sees it, the coaches see it and certainly the players are aware of his shortcomings. Players want to win and they typically accept coaches decisions if it is valid. When players start to question a coach it is when a season can go sideways. Franklin better be careful on how he handles the next 3 games.

 

[heckmans]

I do agree with you that Cliff's poor play impacted the gameplan. PSU ran 78 plays on the day and 3/4 of them (58) were runs. At some point, CJF decided to just grind out a win and move on. Just thankful our running game was up to the task - putting up 220 yards.

you think the weather had any impact on the game plan?

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

you think the weather had any impact on the game plan?

Definitely did. But Cliff's scatter-shot arm in the 1st Half definitely caused CJF to pack it in, in the 2nd Half. CJF couldn't have been more clear with how displeased he was in his post-game comments.

 

[Waltwam]

Does anyone in this thread understand what stopping 5 drives with turnovers does to your offense?
No seriously, does anyone understand this?
A football team averages between 12-15 offensive possessions a game. When you finish your drive with a turnover its a possession you will never get back. The game doesn't become longer because of it. So when you end a drive by giving the ball back between 30-40% of the time in a game, your chances to win are so low its probably not really quantifiable. Forget 3 and outs, to hand the ball over to the other team without the net gain of a punt is a huge, huge deal...Not to mention the psychological effect it may have on the player(s) who actual made the turnover.
Its akin to hitting a golf ball out of bounds for stroke and distance as opposed to hitting it into a red penalty area where you drop at the point of entry. Huge, huge disadvantage to lose the distance. Every 120 yards counts for stroke in golf per the averages of the course rating & handicap system. So when you hit a ball out of bounds from 240 yards away its really costing you about 4 strokes on average (1 for original ball, 1 for the penalty stroke, and 2 more based on the average of each stroke being 120 yards). This may be hard to follow but I can assure you its absolutely true from a stats and averages point of golf scoring based on the variables that the one shot from 240 yards produces over the course of 18 holes. So how would a similar philosophy relate to turning the ball over without the punt distance?

To turn the ball over 5 times and win by two scores is utterly astounding, regardless of the competition on the other side of the ball.

It's possible that the coaching staff should possibly be lauded for winning a disgustingly sloppy game by 2 two scores.

You should know that when I hit a bad shot, or out of bounds, it never has any psychological effect on me. My game never suffers, and I just come back and hit nothing but great shots! I am nothing like my buddies, who, when they hit a bad shot, they proceed to hit another one. Sometimes, those shots cause the wheels to come off, and the whole round becomes a joke.😉😉🙃

 

[ryoder1]

Yea, that is pretty staggering. There is no doubt that the Defense won the game for us - this is especially true when you consider not only those stats, but the Defense also created three takeaways of their own to mitigate the offenses TOs to a net 2. An incredible performance by the PSU Defense and one of the big reasons I think we have a legit shot against scUM. People are talking about how incredible scUM has looked, but they really haven't played a good team yet - BTN is trying to talk up Maryland due to the very competitive game Maryland gave them @scUM, but "come on man!" this is Maryland were talking about! Maryland plays Purdue this weekend @home - I think we'll know a lot more about how good scUM is after this game (Maryland put up 400 yards of offense on scUM and even the FOX announcers said the incomplete pass that the Referines called an interception in scUM territory on a 1st-Down play with Maryland driving and having the lead). scUM looked very beatable in that Maryland game.

The Big Clown Network loves to talk up scUM and of course the Luckeyes. To your point, they have such little respect for PSU that they create idiotic content debating if Maryland Illinois or PSU is third after the two golden boys. They would prefer to just jump to the scUM vs Luckeyes game with both being undefeated and forget the rest of the season. It is clear to me the buffoonish talking heads at that network see scUM as definitely better than we are and will beat us no questions asked. We will see, it will be a closer game than those yahoos think and I think we have a good chance of winning. We have talent that matches theirs and an experienced QB. Of course we need good Cliff and that is a good possibility. I like our position on D with Diaz, better than Pry.

 

[ryoder1]

You should know that when I hit a bad shot, or out of bounds, it never has any psychological effect on me. My game never suffers, and I just come back and hit nothing but great shots! I am nothing like my buddies, who, when they hit a bad shot, they proceed to hit another one. Sometimes, those shots cause the wheels to come off, and the whole round becomes a joke.😉😉🙃

This is an excellent point. After that fumble early in the 3rd quarter (the 3rd of 4 I believe) I think it completely took the energy out of the offense. They were deflated and Clifford really became off mentally. We wish he would have been better but those fumbles wreak havoc on your psyche as an offensive team. That game was tailor made for Patty Fitz to pull of the upset yet we were able to hold him off. The D was great and I give credit to Diaz. He will have us ready against scUM. Hopefully some defensive packages to either get to McCarthy or rattle him/confuse him. Also cannot let them play Bo Schmuckbechler ball with Corum, take that away.

 

[ryoder1]

Definitely did. But Cliff's scatter-shot arm in the 1st Half definitely caused CJF to pack it in, in the 2nd Half. CJF couldn't have been more clear with how displeased he was in his post-game comments.

Cliff will bounce back. He knows he needs to deliver. CJF needs to make sure he doesn't press too much as you know he wants to play better and get a HUGE win along with revenge against scUM.

 

[ryoder1]

Does anyone in this thread understand what stopping 5 drives with turnovers does to your offense?
No seriously, does anyone understand this?
A football team averages between 12-15 offensive possessions a game. When you finish your drive with a turnover its a possession you will never get back. The game doesn't become longer because of it. So when you end a drive by giving the ball back between 30-40% of the time in a game, your chances to win are so low its probably not really quantifiable. Forget 3 and outs, to hand the ball over to the other team without the net gain of a punt is a huge, huge deal...Not to mention the psychological effect it may have on the player(s) who actual made the turnover.
Its akin to hitting a golf ball out of bounds for stroke and distance as opposed to hitting it into a red penalty area where you drop at the point of entry. Huge, huge disadvantage to lose the distance. Every 120 yards counts for stroke in golf per the averages of the course rating & handicap system. So when you hit a ball out of bounds from 240 yards away its really costing you about 4 strokes on average (1 for original ball, 1 for the penalty stroke, and 2 more based on the average of each stroke being 120 yards). This may be hard to follow but I can assure you its absolutely true from a stats and averages point of golf scoring based on the variables that the one shot from 240 yards produces over the course of 18 holes. So how would a similar philosophy relate to turning the ball over without the punt distance?

To turn the ball over 5 times and win by two scores is utterly astounding, regardless of the competition on the other side of the ball.

It's possible that the coaching staff should possibly be lauded for winning a disgustingly sloppy game by 2 two scores.

You need to be quiet. Just believe the narrative that we played horribly and will continue to do that while getting boat raced versus the greatest team of the last 50 years, the Jim Harbaugh led Wolverweasels.

 

[Waltwam]

This is an excellent point. After that fumble early in the 3rd quarter (the 3rd of 4 I believe) I think it completely took the energy out of the offense. They were deflated and Clifford really became off mentally. We wish he would have been better but those fumbles wreak havoc on your psyche as an offensive team. That game was tailor made for Patty Fitz to pull of the upset yet we were able to hold him off. The D was great and I give credit to Diaz. He will have us ready against scUM. Hopefully some defensive packages to either get to McCarthy or rattle him/confuse him. Also cannot let them play Bo Schmuckbechler ball with Corum, take that away.

When we went up 14-0, I think the team thought it would be a cakewalk. Hopefully, lesson learned for a young team.