PSU bans Beta and puts huge restrictions on Greek Life

[Tom McAndrew]

Back in the 60's there was no rush during Fall quarter. It began in Winter quarter which began in January. The house was full and we even had an annex.

I don't doubt that. Pledge classes have been rather large of late as well, which has helped to keep full in recent years. That said, consider things from this perspective:
- earlier this semester, PSU announced that rush was ended for this semester for all those currently pledging
- today they announced that there will be no rushing in the fall

So effectively, without any advance warning, PSU eliminated one year of pledging. In addition, PSU has made many aspects of Greek life less attractive than it previously was.

Many of the frats (and sororities) have unofficial senior houses, where the seniors live. So between seniors graduating, juniors moving into the senior houses, and a year without underclass pledges, it is likely that quite a few of the frat houses will be less than full in the near future.

 

[jerseylion109]

say what you want about frats but they are a BIG part of a lot of students experience at PSU...hoping the IFC fights this or works with PSU to get some of this eased up. If not, greek life could be phased out.

 

[fairgambit]

I will be brief .
......You can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Mr. Sims- isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, Mr. Sims, you can do whatever you want to Beta, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

Note: I was not in a fraternity at Penn State, but I developed friendships and made memories as deep and lasting as anyone who was.

 

[LafayetteBear]

All of those bad statistics got a human face late Feb. 2, when student Timothy Piazza fell down a set of stairs in the Beta house during a party, and was left unattended for as long as 12 hours as a party raged through the night.

NorCalcLion: I don't know where you got that article from (The Collegian?). You are correct in noting that the investigation of this matter is still pending and litigation (whether criminal or civil, or both) is still a possibility, which is why we are not hearing more about this. But I can tell you with a pretty fair amount of confidence that the statement bolded above is not factual.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Was never in a fraternity at State, so please don't take my post as anti-Greek. All due respect to those here who were Greek, but could it be that this is part of a trend (and not just at PSU)? Considering the vast majority of students are not in a frat/sorority, would a decline in Greek life ultimately matter? Again, since I never took part in one, I just don't know.

Would Thon survive without Fraternities and Sororities? Can't say since I graduated years ago.

I think the Phi Psi 500 was maybe the biggest fund raising event on campus in the 70s and early 80s, and as soon as they turned it into a dry event, it died. I ran in it probably at least 10 or 15 straight years from the early 70s. After I graduated, I would bring guys down from home. They were amazed.

As soon as I heard they got rid of the beer, I wasn't going to waste my time driving 4 hours anymore. Running 1.1 miles with a couple of hills stone cold sober isn't that big a deal if you are in shape. Especially if there are thousands of people on the streets cheering you on. But running 1.1 miles chugging a beer at each bar??? Now THAT was a challenge!

I could be wrong, but I think former Olympian Greg Fredericks held the record at something like 5 minutes, 45 seconds or thereabouts. Anyone that ever ran in it knows that that time is beyond incredible.

Sprinting from Phi Psi to that first bar, you felt like Jessie Owens or Carl Lewis. Chugged that first beer, and sprinted to the second bar. Chugged that second beer and ran to the third bar. Drank that third beer, realized the music was starting to sound just a little bit better, and while the beer was starting to slosh around in your stomach from the running and bar steps, you would do your best to run to the 4th bar.

By now, not only was the music sounding great, but the girls were looking smoking hot, but you still had a goal to reach. You ran (jogged as best you could) to the 5th bar, looking for any strategically placed giant garbage cans that thank goodness were plentiful along the way.

That last bar would always be really tough. The place would always be jammed pack and rockin. I would be pretty much either hammered or sick by that time. But it was the best sick feeling in the World! Once you hit a waste basket, you were good as new for staying and partying!! BUT..... you still had that last steep hill to run up. Locust Lane was always like Mt Everest.

I was pretty much out of breath by the time I got back to the finish line. But then.... it was time to PARTY!!!!! This was DEFINITELY not your typical 1.1 mile course.

Never saw a fight or anything close to a fight. Everyone was always in an utterly euphoric mood, and having fun. One year, I think even the police departments ran. It was just a different time, and definitely a better time.

Oh ya. Thousands and Thousands of dollars were raised for different charities from that race every year. And it got to a point where there were over 1,000 runners.

Unfortunately, students today will never get a chance to experience anything like that ever again. Those definitely were the Good Old Days!!!

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

NorCalcLion: I don't know where you got that article from (The Collegian?). You are correct in noting that the investigation of this matter is still pending and litigation (whether criminal or civil, or both) is still a possibility, which is why we are not hearing more about this. But I can tell you with a pretty fair amount of confidence that the statement bolded above is not factual.

You have trusted "inside info" iirc.

 

[LafayetteBear]

I went to college to learn. I guess that's not enough for some people.

It would not have been enough for me. The social skills, networking skills and friendships that one develops in college are, IMO, much more important than what one learns in classes. I learned much more of what I needed for my career in grad school and on the job.

 

[LafayetteBear]

You have trusted "inside info" iirc.

Yes.

 

[manatree]

As someone that lives in/near the fraternity district, other than the cancellation of parties the weekend this student died, I have seen no change in the normal party activity in the neighborhood. Granted, I don't know what makes the difference between a social event and a non-social event, but whatever previous restrictions were in place seemed to have little to no impact.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Would Thon survive without Fraternities and Sororities? Can't say since I graduated years ago.

Unfortunately, students today will never get a chance to experience anything like that ever again. Those definitely were the Good Old Days!!!

Sounds awesome Buffalo, but keep in mind, every generation that goes through State creates its own nostalgia. Someday they'll talk about all of the things that future kids won't experience like back in the day.

As for THON...it's a time-honored tradition that I'm sure would be embraced by the rest of the student body. I guess the question would be - is it a Penn State tradition or just a Greek thing?

 

[uhlerlion]

This just doesn't make sense. So kids will go to apartment parties and get black out drunk and do stupid stuff. Will psu the. Ban apartments??

typical false equivalence argument

by that extension might as well ban life bring back prohibition yada yada

 

[BobPSU92]

Sounds awesome Buffalo, but keep in mind, every generation that goes through State creates its own nostalgia. Someday they'll talk about all of the things that future kids won't experience like back in the day.

As for THON...it's a time-honored tradition that I'm sure would be embraced by the rest of the student body. I guess the question would be - is it a Penn State tradition or just a Greek thing?

I believe THON was more of a "Greek thing" in the '70s and '80s, but it has since grown into a university-wide endeavor. There are many non-Greek student groups involved now.

 

[Zenophile]

I didn't go to PSU undergrad, but we had a weasily dean just like Damon Sims. The guy, who was a repressed social reject, had it out for fraternities and through subterfuge and heavy-handedness managed to get rid of about 75% of them, and change the whole Greek system during his tenure. Some change was necessary, but this guy went way too far, way too fast. Result? Most of the students who were associated with the Greek system (and that was most of the students) felt more connection to their affiliations than to the school, and the school has effectively lost a generation of alumni support.

While in school I had an opportunity to spend a weekend in Schenectady (which is a fun word to say) & Troy, NY, where I stayed at various fraternity houses at Union College and RIT -- the price fit very well with my budget at the time.

At Union one morning there was a knock at the front door. It was early enough that no one else was around yet, so I answered it. The older gentleman on the other side of the door hastily brushed past me and began inspecting the house. I wouldn't know until he was through that he'd been looking for tapped kegs, which apparently would have been a violation.

He was the president of Union. So yeah, the struggle has always been real.

Incidentally those of us who went to Penn State may not have a full appreciation for the football traditions of smaller schools. The football field at Union was adjacent to the back yard of the fraternity house. There were couches at the edge of the property where brothers & guests would sit to watch football games. Have to admit, it really struck me as novel at the time (& still does).

 

[manatree]

I believe THON was more of a "Greek thing" in the '70s and '80s, but it has since grown into a university-wide endeavor. There are many non-Greek student groups involved now.

If I remember correctly, allowing more non-Greek organizations to participate in Thon were part of the University stipulations for allowing Thon to move from White Bldg to Rec Hall, and again from Rec Hall to the BJC.

 

[WTNuke]

Enforcement will clearly be an issue, but when they start suspending charters for the bold few who want to go against the rules, I suspect you'll see a pretty high compliance rate.

 

[Nitt1300]

It has always struck me as wrong to punish the innocent for the acts of the guilty.

 

[WTNuke]

It has always struck me as wrong to punish the innocent for the acts of the guilty.

It's not a punishment. They get to keep their fraternities. It's just a set of rules.

 

[Nitt1300]

It's not a punishment. They get to keep their fraternities. It's just a set of rules.

Like hell- the rush ban strikes at their lifeblood, which is membership. It's typical cowardly Administration bullshit- if they want to ban them, have the balls to say so.

 

[uhlerlion]

It has always struck me as wrong to punish the innocent for the acts of the guilty.

Isn't it a matter of semantics. Whats is the punishment you speak of? Limiting socials to 1 a week versus 3 a week. Asking for alcohol that is served at these functions to be beer and wine? Asking that a licensed(loose term) Bartender dispense of the beverages?

What is exactly punitive about those requirements?

 

[WTNuke]

Like hell- the rush ban strikes at their lifeblood, which is membership. It's typical cowardly Administration bullshit- if they want to ban them, have the balls to say so.

So don't do rush. Just have people sign up and join the house. If you need members then change the process of adding new members. Have a recruitment drive that doesn't revolve around hazing and trial by fire and excluding people who don't fit their predetermined idea of someone who belongs there. Just have people show up and admit them. Cowardly would be backing down from the embarrassments that fraternities have brought to the University community. They'll have to change the way they do business or go out of business.

 

[uhlerlion]

I don't doubt that. Pledge classes have been rather large of late as well, which has helped to keep full in recent years. That said, consider things from this perspective:
- earlier this semester, PSU announced that rush was ended for this semester for all those currently pledging
- today they announced that there will be no rushing in the fall

So effectively, without any advance warning, PSU eliminated one year of pledging. In addition, PSU has made many aspects of Greek life less attractive than it previously was.

Many of the frats (and sororities) have unofficial senior houses, where the seniors live. So between seniors graduating, juniors moving into the senior houses, and a year without underclass pledges, it is likely that quite a few of the frat houses will be less than full in the near future.

I dont know that you eliminated a year of rushing, (you eliminated a year to rush) its not as if anyone missed out unless your a junior. If your a current freshman so you rush next spring as a sophomore. Freshman starting next year your rush in the spring. Eventually your back on schedule, its no different than moving from a fiscal to a calender year in an accounting cycle

 

[Nitt1300]

Isn't it a matter of semantics. Whats is the punishment you speak of? Limiting socials to 1 a week versus 3 a week. Asking for alcohol that is served at these functions to be beer and wine? Asking that a licensed(loose term) Bartender dispense of the beverages?

What is exactly punitive about those requirements?

It's the rush restrictions that bother me- there have been restrictions on alcohol, and with college age kids, there should be. But the h restrictions are designed to wreck the organizations, and that's wrong.

 

[Howie'81]

Bring back the Phi Psi 500!

 

[WTNuke]

It's the rush restrictions that bother me- there have been restrictions on alcohol, and with college age kids, there should be. But the h restrictions are designed to wreck the organizations, and that's wrong.

They're designed to make sure that kids are actually going to class and getting used to the University before spending all of their time doing stupid chores for a social club. This is still an institution of higher learning. The University doesn't like having kids come here just to go on probation in their first year. Think of it as a redshirt year.

 

[Nitt1300]

So don't do rush. Just have people sign up and join the house. If you need members then change the process of adding new members. Have a recruitment drive that doesn't revolve around hazing and trial by fire and excluding people who don't fit their predetermined idea of someone who belongs there. Just have people show up and admit them. Cowardly would be backing down from the embarrassments that fraternities have brought to the University community. They'll have to change the way they do business or go out of business.

oh I see where you're coming from now- you want to end them too, at least you came out and said it, sort of kind of
I think the University should do the same thing instead of skulking around

 

[WTNuke]

oh I see where you're coming from now- you want to end them too, at least you came out and said it, sort of kind of
I think the University should do the same thing instead of skulking around

I don't care if they're around or not. I just want them to act responsibly if they're going to exist. I don't get the point of "rush". If the concern is that you won't have enough kids to fill the houses, well, this is a huge University with a lot of money being thrown around. If you work outside the system you can fill membership pretty quickly. They just need to be creative and adapt. And they need to have less sexual assault if they expect to survive long-term.

 

[Pardlion]

So don't do rush. Just have people sign up and join the house. If you need members then change the process of adding new members. Have a recruitment drive that doesn't revolve around hazing and trial by fire and excluding people who don't fit their predetermined idea of someone who belongs there.

Agreed. This should be more like a professional interview process. Oh, wait . . .

 

[Cpeplion]

NorCalcLion: I don't know where you got that article from (The Collegian?). You are correct in noting that the investigation of this matter is still pending and litigation (whether criminal or civil, or both) is still a possibility, which is why we are not hearing more about this. But I can tell you with a pretty fair amount of confidence that the statement bolded above is not factual.

Then state the facts..you can't just say his info isn't factual if that is the info that was reported and have no other facts to counter.

 

[Nitt1300]

I don't care if they're around or not. I just want them to act responsibly if they're going to exist. I don't get the point of "rush". If the concern is that you won't have enough kids to fill the houses, well, this is a huge University with a lot of money being thrown around. If you work outside the system you can fill membership pretty quickly. They just need to be creative and adapt. And they need to have less sexual assault if they expect to survive long-term.

you paint with a broad brush- how not inclusive of you

 

[Pardlion]

And they need to have less sexual assault if they expect to survive long-term.

Agreed. Sexual assault should be limited to dorm rooms, off campus housing and other places where it belongs.

 

[WTNuke]

Agreed. Sexual assault should be limited to dorm rooms, off campus housing and other places where it belongs.

We should work on getting rid of it there too. But every journey begins with a single step. Start with the place where it's most common and work your way back.

 

[WTNuke]

you paint with a broad brush- how not inclusive of you

I'm extremely inclusive. As is Penn State, which will happily include organizations that follow the rules.

 

[Howie'81]

I was friends of guys in fraternities. Does that make me Greek by association? I could have joined a fraternity back in my time, probably KDR because I had a number of friends there, but if I had, I surely would NOT have gotten through the Chem E. curriculum.

 

[Nitt1300]

We should work on getting rid of it there too. But every journey begins with a single step. Start with the place where it's most common and work your way back.

got a source to back that claim up, or are you just winging it?

 

[WTNuke]

got a source to back that claim up, or are you just winging it?

Data collected from the University show that women involved in greek life are 50% more likely to experience sexual assault and males are 62% more likely to commit sexual assault compared to the rest of the University.

 

[PSU Mike]

I don't think it needs to be crippling - if these orgs have been so great at assimilating groups of bright, networked citizens they should have no problem figuring it out.

 

[Pardlion]

Data collected from the University show that women involved in greek life are 50% more likely to experience sexual assault and males are 62% more likely to commit sexual assault compared to the rest of the University.

Fake data. File away with poll results predicting outcome of last presidential election.

 

[WTNuke]

Fake data.

From fake researchers, using fake methods and fake funding, no doubt. That argument doesn't really make a dent with the University.

 

[Nitt1300]

Data collected from the University show that women involved in greek life are 50% more likely to experience sexual assault and males are 62% more likely to commit sexual assault compared to the rest of the University.

statistics provided without a link are made up 83% of the time

 

[Pardlion]

We should work on getting rid of it there too. But every journey begins with a single step. Start with the place where it's most common and work your way back.

You know what else is most common at fraternities? Fun.