can only get our Quarterback killed. Didn't someone from Penn State go to Ohio State to coach the offensive line?
Why can Ohio State with a young offense line win, and we
- Thread starter walleye38
- Start date
Because they are all 5 and high-4 star recruits. We have one Menet coming, but they have 10.
Very simply:
1) They had more than 2-3 basic plays.
2) They threw the ball downfield.....often.
3) They had two QBs that were mobile and not interested in swallowing the football when they were in trouble.
1) They had more than 2-3 basic plays.
2) They threw the ball downfield.....often.
3) They had two QBs that were mobile and not interested in swallowing the football when they were in trouble.
Isn't Palmer, Mangiro,and Mahon all 4 star recruits? Gaia and Nelson are high 3 stars. Most D1 teams don't have that many highly rated OL so I would assume it's the coaching. I guess 1 of the players isn't as good as their rating.
Let's not kid ourselves either. They have several future NFL players on that line. We have ZERO. Big difference right there as well. It allows them to do things that others can't.
When you have 24 guys and pick 5 whether young or old you have the best of a group.
We have 8 guys and picked 5. Unless those 8 were special, we are most likely with a couple of guys who wouldn't start anywhere.
LdN
This. Yes coaching seems to be a issue but the talent gap is wide between OSU and PSU. All good teams including PSU in our best years have more OL busts than not, just more to pick from.
I think the other replies have said as much but I will reiterate ...
talent and coaching
So, you are saying OSU has 25 OL on scholarship? Seriously..... hmmmmm .....I think it is get a grip time.
Uh......OSU offensive line is 3rd year guy and four guys in either their 4th or 5th year? (and, BTW, no.....no PSU coach went to OSU to coach the offensive line)
WTF?
Not to mention, from 2011-2014, OSU - 18 offensive line recruits singed - 11 of "4 star" or better.
And six more (including four "4 star") in the 2015 class.
Of that group, SIX of them have already "flamed-out". (offensive line is probably the toughest position to project from High School to College)......but that still leaves them with 12 lineman (9 of whom were "4 star" or better).....not counting their freshmen.
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During that same 2011-2014, PSU signed 13 offensive linemen (largely due to the sanctions).....2 of whom were "4 star" (again, the sanctions probably had an effect there as well). Two of those guys then were gone due to the sanctions ("free transfer", and "sit out but still stay on scholarship" penalties).
Two of the others have "flamed out".
That's why we have two defensive tackles and a JUCO in our starting offensive line......and redshirt freshmen providing the depth and "competition".
It is what it is.
Well, actually - they DID sign 24 that "would be" eligible (see my post above)
About a half dozen have already flamed out and are no longer on the roster. (which isn't unusual for offensive line attrition).
The OP's post is legit in that OSU had 24 to "select from"....even though some have fallen by the side due to injury/talent/off-field etc.
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I've used the analogy before - because it is the best one out there:
Michigan's three years under DickRod.....SIX TOTAL offensive linemen recruited (09-11). Hoke came in and signed 10 total from 2012-13.....which left them with 16, but most of them 1st and 2nd year guys. That was their situation going into the 2013 season.
That is - essentially where PSU is RIGHT NOW!
Michigan is just now getting close to "normal". That same track puts PSU close to "normal" in 2017.
Again.....it is what it is.
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In the meantime, PSU (much like Michigan has done from 2012-2014) will have to try to employ some smoke-and-mirrors on offense. From what we saw on Saturday.....all the mirrors are cracked, and the smoke looks like it emanates from a "stink-bomb".
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I'd say that CH not being a real threat to run has some to do with it.
OSU with a mobile qb whom also is a threat to take off with the football slows down that front 7.
We all know this so we better just be patient and hopefully they will get it together
And what is the attrition rate for OL leaving PSU's program over the same time span?
Perhaps we need a Mike Munchak or Dick Anderson or protege of theirs to work with the OL?
Well.....I listed all the relevant numbers. Its basically the same percentage as OSU's rate.....and basically the norm for PSU (or any other program) over the years.
I covered this last year and will repeat this again. Last year OSU had "two converted DL" and two 3 star starting on their OL. Sound familiar??? It should since it is Almost the exact talent we had. The first game against VT they were less then stellar which is the only reason VT won the game. After that, they were "lights out" for the rest of the year. They even had that Bama DL sucking wind as Elliott pounded the ball time and again.
No more excuses this year for this freaking horrible OL play. For Christ sake, even VT looked descent with their 3 star 5.5 OL against one of the best overall defenses in the country. Did anyone watch NC/SC the other night??? Look at that OL blocking! Both would destroy this team.
This OL gets "no more excuses" since it only lets them continue to fail which should not be the case with the talent we have. It doesn't take that long for an DL to convert to the OL. Look at the Eagles All Pro LT; he never played the position in college. How about Miami??? Always recruiting DL to play on their OL. How about Levi Brown? Did it take him 3/4 years to learn how to play LT???
No more excuses, none......
Ohio State QB's are mobile, if you watched the game last night, they have to run to escape sacs. No OL can stop a blitz 100%, QB has to manage it. Do not forget Ohio State QB's have suffered serious injuries in the past.
Penn State has to beat the blitzes with better game planning and quick releases.
Penn State has to beat the blitzes with better game planning and quick releases.
And, PSU has to start running the ball which they have not done in over a year. OSU can run the ball which makes a huge difference. Many praised the OL play during the Pinstripe Bowl. Take away the 65-70 yard run by Lynch and we had about 20 yards rushing whereas BC ran for "289 yards" against us.
We can not run the ball, period! Really pathetic indeed. If we could, then Hack would not have the pressure on him.
No I'm saying that over 5 years they signed ~25 guys. What's so confusing about what I said? Also some DL convert. I doubt my number is that far off from reality.
LdN
They are not YOUNG guys most have been in the program for 3 years !!! They are men AND 4-5 star guys. The team is 2-3 deep across the board. We were once like that back in the 90's.
I still believe Franklin can get us there once again, he does NOT have the pieces, players and "some" coaches.
I still believe Franklin can get us there once again, he does NOT have the pieces, players and "some" coaches.
They were one of the more inexperienced units in the country last year and had not played one snap together as a unit.....1 returning starter, Decker and 1 senior - Baldwin, a converted D-lineman. They were replacing 4 departing seniors, 3 of whom started as rookies for playoff teams in the NFL. True, they had been in the program for 2-3 years, but were very inexperienced compared to the vast majority of O-lines around the country. The unit they turned into by the end of the year is a testament to O-line Coach Ed Warriner....he's the real secret.
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All this excuse about how long it takes to play on the offensive line is BS. TJ Clemmings in Pittsburgh was playing DE and only started as DE in his RS SOph year but in his junior year was asked to play OT. Clemmings started his junior and senior year, as well, as being drafted 4 th round. He converted to the OL over 1 summer.
Let's say Team A recruits ten 3-star linemen, and Team B recruits five 3-star linemen. Team A picks the five best linemen out of the ten they recruited and makes them starters. Team B has no choice but to start the five linemen they have. Both teams have a line consisting of 3-star players, but which would you expect to be better? This is why the sanctions may be part of the problem. That doesn't mean it's the only problem or that the coaches are blameless, but to dismiss the effect of the sanctions altogether seems wrong to me.
There's no question in my mind that Ohio State's o-line success is a combination of everything you've all mentioned:
1) Talent/recruiting
2) mobile QB
3) dangerous running game
4) scheme
5) player development
Urban Meyer is tireless in seeking any edge he can get. He leaves no stone unturned. If I were to add a 6th item to the list:
6) Meyer has had the same o-line coach throughout his time at Ohio State.
1) Talent/recruiting
2) mobile QB
3) dangerous running game
4) scheme
5) player development
Urban Meyer is tireless in seeking any edge he can get. He leaves no stone unturned. If I were to add a 6th item to the list:
6) Meyer has had the same o-line coach throughout his time at Ohio State.
It's the coaching. When Flood was the OL coach, there were so many games where our drives were stopped because of stupid penalties like holding and offside. Flood was a below average OL Coach and Rutgers never had a consistent running game and we gave up so many sacks. Savage left Rutgers because he was sacked so much just like Hackenburg when we had several changes in the OL due to graduation. Last year, with the new OL coach, we played a lot better and no more penalties that ended drives.
Their coaches are a proven commodity and better in every measurable way right now. Hoping that will even out over time.
Despite what some are saying OSUs OL last year was not "young". Seven of the ten on their 2 deep were in the program for 3 years. NOT young. What was said was that they lacked "starting' experience. Very different than what PSU faced. OSU is so deep they could let the "cream" rise to the top. We have so few players period. Cream?? are you kidding me? We only have ONE player that is a real starter. The rest are career back-ups at best. It will take us another 2-3 years to develop a real line.
Exactly what I was going to post until I read yours. The offensive line coach, Warriner gets a lot of credit for developing not only the current offensive line, but the one he inherited that gave Carlos Hyde 1000+ yards. He changed the technique and scheme of his predecessor.
I haven't noticed any mention of Kevin Reihner, the 5th year OLman from Stanford. He had several years of playing time at a high level but I never heard his name mentioned Saturday. He was supposed to provide experienced, mature back-up ro the OL, and there's gotta be a spot somewhere for him on our trainwreck of a line.
Price was a RS/FR last year, Elfein a RD/Soph, Boren a Jr. All three had their first starts last year, along with two other converted DL who had their first starts last year. They were/are almost "Identical" to us with talent and experience, yet they man handled Bama, in the 4th quarter, one of the best if not the best, defenses in country.
OSU's OL looked absolutely horrible in the first game against VT. How long did it take them to fix it??? Answer, "one freaking week" and they kept getting better and better each week! No more excuses, none!
Their two starting guards were a redshirt freshman and a redshirt sophomore. Nobody on their starting OL had more than TWO years of experience in the program as an OLineman. Not one guy. Not sure what the 2 deep has to do with anything since those guys are sitting on the bench. You can keep arguing they weren't very young but it's just simply not true. Only the LT was even ranked that high as a recruit.
Not a single starting OLineman for OSU had more than 2 years in the program as an OLineman last year. So unless by "most" you mean zero, then you are incorrect.
They have had a continuum in their recruiting and depth.
When Tressel left ,the cupboard was full, OB not so much.
We have a pocket passer they have a dual threat QB.
Palmer is a patch, and a work in progress, Menet may start next
year but highly unlikely (development, weights etc.)
Even some of PSU's worst teams had potential, the bottom line
whether our fans like it or not the sanctions killed us.
Maybe a year or two yet.
When Tressel left ,the cupboard was full, OB not so much.
We have a pocket passer they have a dual threat QB.
Palmer is a patch, and a work in progress, Menet may start next
year but highly unlikely (development, weights etc.)
Even some of PSU's worst teams had potential, the bottom line
whether our fans like it or not the sanctions killed us.
Maybe a year or two yet.
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