What are we to make of our receiver situation?

[lowhandicapper]

How did we get guys like Godwin, Robinson, Hamilton, & Hamler?

Robinson was an add-on they found while recruiting Rob Bolden. He wasn't highly recruited.
Godwin & Hamler were legit nationally recruited 4 stars.
I think Hamilton was a 3 star that was moderately recruited but I can't recall for sure.
Penn State has never recovered from losing Gattis. They've never filled the position with a coach that could work it like Gattis. A continuous carousel of WR coaches. A coach that is most typically responsible for helping bring in play making wide receivers. The whole thing has been a mess since then and it manifests with the talent in WR room, which has been down for quite some time.

 

[PSUNYGNYY]

Allen Robinson was more than a decade ago, and thrived in a system that prioritized the passing game. Nobody on our staff had any connection to Allen Robinson.

You pointed to three very good WRs -- and I'd add another with Dotson. Godwin and Dotson being in that "elite" category. That's four (two top-tier WRs) over the course of ~8 years. Not bad, but hardly in the upper level of CFB. And most importantly for the purpose of this conversation, not particularly relevant to our recent struggles at the position. Despite his bigger flaws, Gattis could definitely recruit and develop WRs.

It's not a mystery that our style of offense and our WR development hasn't been attracting the big fish.

The mystery is how Franklin who coached WRs in the NFL and was a successful offensive coordinator at UMD and K-State, can’t get a stud WR to come to PSU. As previously stated, CJF got Godwin, Hamler, Blacknall, Johnson, Dotson, Washington, and Shorter all to come to PSU. I think Shorter specifically and Johnson leaving really hurt recruiting. Losing Gattis was a big blow and we never replaced him with anyone capable except Parker who was only here one season.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Franklin said the wide receiver room has the talent. So, Why worry.

 

[bdroc]

Is Martin our secret weapon?

 

[cment]

I don't disagree, but outside of KLS I don't believe those departing were going to be solutions.

That’s why the WR is a train wreck.

 

[PSU20]

Irv Charles was a 4* recruit with great size but was ultimately kicked off the team for a violation of team rules. He ultimately made it to the NFL so he must have had talent.

The only problem was he could not catch a basketball with PSU. Two 10 yard out passes he drops in a row right in the front of the coaches. Pulled him out, put in Blacknall; same pattern on the nest play, pass completed.

JF even coached in the NFL; to say Charles was the best WR he ever coached is a stretch by anyones imagination.

 

[Obliviax]

 

[lazydave841]

JF even coached in the NFL; to say Charles was the best WR he ever coached is a stretch by anyones imagination

Coach speak gets looked into too much. If coach is short and abrupt, he's rude. If he tried to motivate a kid, it's taken for being carved in stone.

 

[voltz99]

Maybe we should cancel the season.

I have faith half the fans will predict 12-0 because they predict 12-0 every season. They expect psu to beat every team with less talent every season and then they expect psu to beat the teams with more talent

 

[PSUSignore]

I have confidence that someone in the WR will step up, especially if Kotelnicki lives up to the hype and Allar continues to improve in year 2 as a starter. The transfers out are of little consequence, those guys weren't getting the job done so why not give the guys behind them and new players a chance before condemning them? Just because they weren't 5* recruits or haven't produced to date in limited minutes doesn't mean they can't produce going forward.

 

[bdgan]

Maybe we should cancel the season.

I have faith half the fans will predict 12-0 because they predict 12-0 every season. They expect psu to beat every team with less talent every season and then they expect psu to beat the teams with more talent

My expectation is for PSU to consistently finish in the top 20, finish in the top 10 half the time, and beat OSU once every 3-4 years. That would be consistent with the revenues PSU football generates and the amount spent on the coaching staff. The big variable is NIL where I read that we're 12th.

 

[voltz99]

My expectation is for PSU to consistently finish in the top 20, finish in the top 10 half the time, and beat OSU once every 3-4 years. That would be consistent with the revenues PSU football generates and the amount spent on the coaching staff. The big variable is NIL where I read that we're 12th.

One out of every 3 vs OSU? Should PSU also lose to teams with less talent like Joe lost to Iowa every other year or do you expect PSU to beat those teams 100% of the time?

 

[bdroc]

One out of every 3 vs OSU? Should PSU also lose to teams with less talent like Joe lost to Iowa every other year or do you expect PSU to beat those teams 100% of the time?

I don't understand your question.

Upsets happen. Why do you think it's unreasonable to expect a team with a top 10 fan base, top 15 facilities, and top 10 paid coaching staff to be a perennial top 10-15 team that's capable of beating a top 5 team once every 4 years?

 

[scrivener]

I don't understand your question.

Upsets happen. Why do you think it's unreasonable to expect a team with a top 10 fan base, top 15 facilities, and top 10 paid coaching staff to be a perennial top 10-15 team that's capable of beating a top 5 team once every 4 years?

It isn't...not unreasonable at all.

Voltz speaks in circles and is nonsensical most of the time.

 

[voltz99]

I don't understand your question.

Upsets happen. Why do you think it's unreasonable to expect a team with a top 10 fan base, top 15 facilities, and top 10 paid coaching staff to be a perennial top 10-15 team that's capable of beating a top 5 team once every 4 years?

If you believe your premise then shouldn't that same team lose to lower ranked top 25 team once every four years too?

 

[voltz99]

My expectation is for PSU to consistently finish in the top 20, finish in the top 10 half the time, and beat OSU once every 3-4 years. That would be consistent with the revenues PSU football generates and the amount spent on the coaching staff. The big variable is NIL where I read that we're 12th.

You want to base it on revenue? Psu is behind OSU and Michigan in revenue. Do you think a top 10 fan base should be able to generate more revenue than Michigan or OSU once every 4 years.

 

[voltz99]

I don't understand your question.

Upsets happen. Why do you think it's unreasonable to expect a team with a top 10 fan base, top 15 facilities, and top 10 paid coaching staff to be a perennial top 10-15 team that's capable of beating a top 5 team once every 4 years?

Do you have a source on total coaching staff pay?
I doubt psu is in the top ten.

 

[voltz99]

Agree 1000%. I recall JF touting Meiga a few years back but the kid barely saw the field. And, he stated that "Irv Charles" was the best WR he had ever coached!!!

It's a message board and criticism is fair and should not be attacked.

False. Don't make up a quote to make a point. Franklin never said irv Charles was the best. He said he MIGHT be the most talented he coached. When Charles finished his career at IUP it is obvious he was not the best.

 

[bdroc]

If you believe your premise then shouldn't that same team lose to lower ranked top 25 team once every four years too?

Sure. I hope PSU beats teams like Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska ever year they play but that's not a reasonable expectation.

 

[bdroc]

Do you have a source on total coaching staff pay?
I doubt psu is in the top ten.

Dabo Swinney, Kirby Smart lead college football's 15 highest-paid coaches in 2024

An average salary of $9 million next season is college football's new well-paid barometer.

247sports.com

 

[PSU20]

False. Don't make up a quote to make a point. Franklin never said irv Charles was the best. He said he MIGHT be the most talented he coached. When Charles finished his career at IUP it is obvious he was not the best.

"The Best" With WR's like Hamler, Thomkins, Johnson, "Godwin" etc. on the team at the same time.

How about Meiga? He touted him a few years ago!!!!

 

[PSU20]

False. Don't make up a quote to make a point. Franklin never said irv Charles was the best. He said he MIGHT be the most talented he coached. When Charles finished his career at IUP it is obvious he was not the best.

Exact quote from JF about Irv Charles: "He is talented, talented, talented - maybe the most talented WR I've ever been around."

Anymore dumb inaccurate remarks!!!

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

Exact quote from JF about Irv Charles: "He is talented, talented, talented - maybe the most talented WR I've ever been around."

Anymore dumb inaccurate remarks!!!

Probably did have high raw ability. That doesn't always translate to success on the field. There are lots of athletes that we give scholarships to that have measurables and raw ability that never develop. When a kid has high upside, they are often worth the risk.

Heck, the Eagles just brought a guy into camp that has never played a down of football at any level. If it doesn't pan out, well, lots of them don't pan out.

 

[voltz99]

Dabo Swinney, Kirby Smart lead college football's 15 highest-paid coaches in 2024

An average salary of $9 million next season is college football's new well-paid barometer.

247sports.com

That is not staff compensation and Franklin is not in the top ten.

 

[voltz99]

Exact quote from JF about Irv Charles: "He is talented, talented, talented - maybe the most talented WR I've ever been around."

Anymore dumb inaccurate remarks!!!

Right. He did not say he was the best.

You are looking for things to cry about. I guess you got tired of crying that Franklin said he would dominate he state in 2014. Now he is recruiting Florida and you are complaining.

 

[PSU20]

Right. He did not say he was the best.

You are looking for things to cry about. I guess you got tired of crying that Franklin said he would dominate he state in 2014. Now he is recruiting Florida and you are complaining.

"Most talented WR I've ever been around." Think of another excuse to to justify how you were exposed shooting from the hip and "wrong again." Who the hell said anything about Florida!!! Dominate the state!!! Anything mentioned about that!

It must be frustrating for you to spend 16 hrs. a day on this site making up stories to justify your bullshit.

 

[voltz99]

"Most talented WR I've ever been around." Think of another excuse to to justify how you were exposed shooting from the hip and "wrong again." Who the hell said anything about Florida!!! Dominate the state!!! Anything mentioned about that!

It must be frustrating for you to spend 16 hrs. a day on this site making up stories to justify your bullshit.

You must get frustrated when psu wins but that does not stop you from complaining.

 

[bdroc]

That is not staff compensation and Franklin is not in the top ten.

He's 11th

Kotelnicki is getting $1.8 million. Allen is getting $1.5 million.

 

[bmejnes]

Looking forward to the season and seeing which players step into the roles we all hope will lead this team into the playoffs. I am excited to see the new OC in action and to use the talent he has in his first year.

Lots of people on here whining and complaining already. Go root for the LIV tour and forget about PSU football

 

[voltz99]

He's 11th

Kotelnicki is getting $1.8 million. Allen is getting $1.5 million.

I read 1.6 mil for Kotelnicki in year 1. $1.8 in year 3 per multiple sources.

Penn State Football: How Much Will Andy Kotelnicki Make With Nittany Lions

What will the Nittany Lions be paying the man they hope will turn their offense into one competing for a National Championship?

www.sportstalkphilly.com

That would only put him around #15 just ahead of Tim Banks and Kirk Ciorrocca.

College football salaries: 25 highest-paid assistant coaches in 2023

I doubt PSU staff is in the top 10 of total pay. PSU always loses guys to SEC schools. Tennessee, LSU, Bama have all cherry picked coaches off the staff. OSU, Georgia, UM , USC, TAMU and Texas have more money. Clemson and FSU are up there. I would like to see a total salary for staff.

I would guess PSU is usually in the 10-15 range which is right about in line with the performance.

 

[PSUSignore]

I read 1.6 mil for Kotelnicki in year 1. $1.8 in year 3 per multiple sources.

Penn State Football: How Much Will Andy Kotelnicki Make With Nittany Lions

What will the Nittany Lions be paying the man they hope will turn their offense into one competing for a National Championship?

www.sportstalkphilly.com

That would only put him around #15 just ahead of Tim Banks and Kirk Ciorrocca.

College football salaries: 25 highest-paid assistant coaches in 2023

I doubt PSU staff is in the top 10 of total pay. PSU always loses guys to SEC schools. Tennessee, LSU, Bama have all cherry picked coaches off the staff. OSU, Georgia, UM , USC, TAMU and Texas have more money. Clemson and FSU are up there. I would like to see a total salary for staff.

I would guess PSU is usually in the 10-15 range which is right about in line with the performance.

PSU is usually tight-lipped about salaries except for Franklin, they hide behind their "state related" status. As a result you usually don't see PSU coaching staff members on any of the lists of total salary rankings.

 

[m.knox]

Besides Lambert Smith, were any of these recent departures anything but a body taking up a scholarship?

Great way to present PSU to future student athletes..... You may want to elect to keep your trap shut once in a while

 

[fastlax16]

Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with no wide receivers and Travis Kelce. If no one wants to step up utilize the tight ends.

 

[bdgan]

Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with no wide receivers and Travis Kelce. If no one wants to step up utilize the tight ends.

I think Warren & Dinkins are good TEs but I don't think either of them are as good as Travis Kelce.

I miss the days when we had a big WR/TE who could high point the ball and fight for 50/50 balls like Jurevicius or Gesicki.

 

[Conewago]

I'm optimistic for Kotelnicki as well. But I think some of his success was going against lesser D's. The stats below are opponents' team defense rankings:

Kansas: Was only held below 30 points against Texas (14 pts), Iowa St (28 pts), Texas Tech (13 pts), K St (27 pts)
Missouri St (NR)
Illinois 96th
Nevada 118th
BYU 99th
Texas 15th
UCF 62nd
Oklahoma St 91st
Oklahoma 49th
Iowa St 44th
Texas Tech 63rd
Kansas St 27th
Cincinatti 102nd
UNLV 92nd

Penn St: Was only held below 30 pts against Michigan (15 pts), Ohio St (20 pts), Rutgers (27 pts), and Ole Miss (25 pts, missing players)
W. VA 65th
Delaware (NR)
Illinois 96th
Iowa 4th
Northwestern 41st
UMass 133rd
Ohio St 2nd
Indiana 101st
Maryland 40th
Michigan 1st
Rutgers 34th
Mich St 87th
Ole Miss 42nd

So both teams were held below 30 points in 4 games. Kansas's 4 came against the #15, #27, #44, and #63 defenses. Penn St's came against the #1, #2, #34, and #42 (missing lots of players) defenses. PSU actually faced the top 3 defenses in the country (outside of their own #3 defense).

Iowa State, Oklahoma, and Texas Tech, at least, all had top 40 defenses. And Kansas had their back up QB against every top 40 defense they played.

What Kotelnicki did at UB is also extremely impressive.

 

[EdwardoCarrachio]

Iowa State, Oklahoma, and Texas Tech, at least, all had top 40 defenses. And Kansas had their back up QB against every top 40 defense they played.

What Kotelnicki did at UB is also extremely impressive.

Yes, that's why I said that I am cautiously optimistic. I just don't want to overstate his success, nor do I want to believe against the statics that he worked miracles. He did well with lesser talent against lesser defenses. Let's hope that he can do well with much better talent against much better defenses.

 

[Conewago]

Yes, that's why I said that I am cautiously optimistic. I just don't want to overstate his success, nor do I want to believe against the statics that he worked miracles. He did well with lesser talent against lesser defenses. Let's hope that he can do well with much better talent against much better defenses.

I get it.

But I do think what Leipold and his staff did at both UB and KU is objectively pretty close to miraculous. Let's hope Kotelnicki was as big a part of that as it looks.

 

[bdroc]

I read 1.6 mil for Kotelnicki in year 1. $1.8 in year 3 per multiple sources.

Penn State Football: How Much Will Andy Kotelnicki Make With Nittany Lions

What will the Nittany Lions be paying the man they hope will turn their offense into one competing for a National Championship?

www.sportstalkphilly.com

That would only put him around #15 just ahead of Tim Banks and Kirk Ciorrocca.

College football salaries: 25 highest-paid assistant coaches in 2023

I doubt PSU staff is in the top 10 of total pay. PSU always loses guys to SEC schools. Tennessee, LSU, Bama have all cherry picked coaches off the staff. OSU, Georgia, UM , USC, TAMU and Texas have more money. Clemson and FSU are up there. I would like to see a total salary for staff.

I would guess PSU is usually in the 10-15 range which is right about in line with the performance.

I don't understand why you're picking nits. I said we have top 10-15 facilities, fan base, NIL, and coach salaries and I think that means we should generally finish that way in the rankings (and beat OSU once every 3-4 years).

You counter by saying Franklin is only the 11th highest paid and Kotelnicki is only 15th. How is that materially different than what I said?

 

[novanit]

Maybe we should make you the WR coach since you obviously have all the answers.

I don't see what he problem is with fans trying to figure out where the issue lies. Most people get that we had a big problem with our offense last year. The common narrative is that we had an off the rails OC, and a WR room that was a train wreck. I don't think that's the whole story and I don't believe all of these coaches "we've" fired the past 10 years or so suddenly forgot how to coach when they got to PSU.

If we are to be satisfied with the current regime's record against ranked opponents, so be it. I, however, would occasionally like to beat a team we are not, on paper, supposed to beat. We are doing well at a lot of positions, but QB and WR are not among them. We also are having trouble on the interior DLine. Just from a fan's perspective that does not get paid to manage football, I think if we get over the hump at those three positions, we will be able to contend for a championship again.

 

[voltz99]

I don't see what he problem is with fans trying to figure out where the issue lies. Most people get that we had a big problem with our offense last year. The common narrative is that we had an off the rails OC, and a WR room that was a train wreck. I don't think that's the whole story and I don't believe all of these coaches "we've" fired the past 10 years or so suddenly forgot how to coach when they got to PSU.

If we are to be satisfied with the current regime's record against ranked opponents, so be it. I, however, would occasionally like to beat a team we are not, on paper, supposed to beat. We are doing well at a lot of positions, but QB and WR are not among them. We also are having trouble on the interior DLine. Just from a fan's perspective that does not get paid to manage football, I think if we get over the hump at those three positions, we will be able to contend for a championship again.

Did any of those coaches fired light it up after psu?