Top ten class without WPIAL commitment at this point artcle
- Thread starter JoeLion
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Really the story should be why are there so few Div. 1 football prospects in WPIAL this year. Has that ever happened before? Maybe this is an opportunity to write about the long decline of WPIAL football.
When there's a great PA/WPIAL class Franklin will take as many of them as he can get. I doubt it's much different from what it would have been under Paterno.
The difference between Franklin and Paterno is that when PA is down, Franklin's staff puts in the effort to recruit nationally. Yes PSU's success creates some visibility, but really the recruiting from Southern states probably reflects a lot of hard work on the part of Franklin's staff.
Paterno and staff didn't like to travel all that much (and probably didn't want to spend the money on plane tickets). They would have been content to fill out the class with 2nd tier players -- legacies, siblings, friends of great prospects the following year, 2nd-tier players from high schools where the staff had relationships with the coaches. That's why Paterno's recruiting was so uneven year to year. And it's why Penn State sometimes ran out of athletes and didn't have very good teams.
When there's a great PA/WPIAL class Franklin will take as many of them as he can get. I doubt it's much different from what it would have been under Paterno.
The difference between Franklin and Paterno is that when PA is down, Franklin's staff puts in the effort to recruit nationally. Yes PSU's success creates some visibility, but really the recruiting from Southern states probably reflects a lot of hard work on the part of Franklin's staff.
Paterno and staff didn't like to travel all that much (and probably didn't want to spend the money on plane tickets). They would have been content to fill out the class with 2nd tier players -- legacies, siblings, friends of great prospects the following year, 2nd-tier players from high schools where the staff had relationships with the coaches. That's why Paterno's recruiting was so uneven year to year. And it's why Penn State sometimes ran out of athletes and didn't have very good teams.
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Paterno pre-2000 or post-2000? During the '80's and '90's Penn State was recruiting the Southeast (Carolinas & Florida) and going after the best talent avIlable. New Millenium? Not so much, health became an issue, "no fire in the belly".
Exactly, which is why Paterno, who was putting himself ahead of the program, should have been forced out. In his day, he was a premier recruiter. He could recruit the parents and close on a recruit as well as anyone.
That is an incredibly silly and speculative comment.
Based on one year(and my praise and support of JF precedes and can be traced here......the 3 month OCT-DEC miracle) everything is lollipops, unicorns and rainbows.
The recruiting is fun to follow and excitement fodder for the off season. However, until signing day nothing is real and then the stars have to "come out" on the field.
Joe didn't win 409 games as a slobbering, clueless fool. I actually think a few of his poor recruits are still pretty prominent in the NFL.
God forbid, Franklin is only 3 or 4 losses away this season from a mass revolt and a relabeling as a used car salesman. How quick we forget. The game of college football changes just like life. I hope my kids don't blame me for what life was like when they grew up. let's get an f'n grip.
The recruiting is fun to follow and excitement fodder for the off season. However, until signing day nothing is real and then the stars have to "come out" on the field.
Joe didn't win 409 games as a slobbering, clueless fool. I actually think a few of his poor recruits are still pretty prominent in the NFL.
God forbid, Franklin is only 3 or 4 losses away this season from a mass revolt and a relabeling as a used car salesman. How quick we forget. The game of college football changes just like life. I hope my kids don't blame me for what life was like when they grew up. let's get an f'n grip.
Nah had nothing to do with liking not liking to travel. Joe always wanted to get to know the player before he offered. He wanted to know their character. Joe always felt there were enough prospects within 5 hrs of SC no need to go to south Fl and get some kid you really didn't know. After 409 wins I guess he knew what he was doing
Old idiot JVP who drove a horse and buggy to work averaged 9 wins and 3 loses for 46 years. Damn, we coulda done better.
I don't believe we had a starter from WPIAL last year. If Apke doesn't start this year, doesn't appear we will have any this
year either. Glad we have Lamont Wade and Miles Sanders looming on the horizon. But, it appears SEPA is much more
important to PSU's future than WPIAL.
year either. Glad we have Lamont Wade and Miles Sanders looming on the horizon. But, it appears SEPA is much more
important to PSU's future than WPIAL.
People get so defensive on Joe's behalf -- even though he is no longer walking the earth.
I think it should be possible to believe that Joe was a great coach and a human being of the first order and at the same time be frank about what he did and didn't do and acknowledge that the program slipped in every respect over the last 20 years -- not just on the field but academically and player behavior off the field.
I'm not saying Franklin is a better coach (let him get to 409 wins first) but he is coaching in 2017 with best practices of 2017. In a lot of ways Joe was coaching in 2010 with the best practices of 1985. It's incredible that Joe was still managing the job at age 80, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't have retired when he was 70.
I was among those who argued Joe should be allowed to stay as long as he wanted, but in retrospect, I was wrong. Joe always had the stock answer that he would step aside if he thought someone else could do a better job. That means he should have stepped aside around the year 2000.
It wasn't clear until new coaching arrived at PSU, but we now know so much of what the program was missing in player development, game coaching, recruiting, and conditioning because Joe and his elderly assistants were tired and the attitude was arrogant and ingrown.
JVP was one of the most selfish bastards ever. Never did a thing for anyone. All about him, huh?
You can take that narrative and park it right along side the other one.
Eddie George from TJ just knocked on my door selling coupons for Jaguar fundraising.
I laughed at him when he said introduced himself as Eddie George. I don't think he knows who the other Eddie George is.
Says he has an offer from Cal U so I told him to make the most of any offer he receives because that ish ain't cheap. Especially in this cesspool of a state.
I laughed at him when he said introduced himself as Eddie George. I don't think he knows who the other Eddie George is.
Says he has an offer from Cal U so I told him to make the most of any offer he receives because that ish ain't cheap. Especially in this cesspool of a state.
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As a 1970 grad, I agree with you. No matter how great Joe was, an 80 year old just does not have the stamina of a 50 year old. The fact that Joe surrounded himself with coaches he was comfortable with added to the situation as they probably seldom ever questioned his decisions.
An organization gets better or it gets worse and when it thinks it is staying the same, it is getting worse. Other than a few exceptional years, that was PSU football for the last 20 years of Joe's career.
However, in defense of him, he was a great man, one of a kind, and absolutely built the bedrock of the football program for his successors and developed a program which literally provides the great majority of the funding for the 30 sports in which PSU participates.
Without Joe and the football program, it is highly probable that we would not have won as many NCs as we have won in volleyball, wrestling, soccer, gymnastics and fencing and how many we will win in those sports plus lacrosse, hockey and field hockey in the future.
People get so defensive. Well pudding and proof and all. Just look at Joe's recruiting the last 20 years. That entire time Joe didn't have 3 years of recruiting as good as Franklin's first 3 years (despite sanctions, despite Franklin not being a "legend.")
Granted it is hard to prove this statement because football has changed so much. It's my opinion as a fan of 50 years -- certainly for as long as I"ve been able to follow recruiting -- Joe in his entire career didn't have four consecutive recruiting classes as strong as 2015-18 will be. And those are just Franklin's first four classes -- the way the program is trending, the next four may be even better.
One position as an example -- Joe didn't recruit a single top echelon running back prospect the last 20 years who wasn't the son of a PSU assistant coach. Yes Hunt and Royster became excellent backs but both were Plan B type recruits. Meanwhile, not gonna name names, but you can go down the rosters and find recruit after recruit who wasn't really physically equipped to compete with Michigan and Ohio State.
Second position as an example -- what Paterno team ever had 4 or 5 top tier four-star type corner prospects on the same squad. Usually it was one or maybe two.
The only recruiting that was really kick ass at PSU the last 20 years was DL because of Larry Johnson and LB once Vanderlinden rebuilt that program from the dust left by Sandusky.
QB recruiting was actually a bright spot because Jay really worked hard at it. But unfortunately most of those highly rated QB recruits never really blossomed because PSU didn't have the offensive coaching expertise to really develop them (at least that is my opinion). One can only wonder what O'Brien could have done with Jay's very good QB recruits.
You could say, well they were just unlucky with QBs. Maybe they were just spectacularly unlucky with OL which is why they only had competitive OL about 50% of the time. But the more years you are looking at the harder it is to chalk it up to bad luck. I think the program did not have consistent standards of excellence and could see it on the field and off the field.
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Let's see what the recruiting leads to. You play to win the game. If Franklin loses 3 games the sky will fall.
20 years is a bit of a stretch. He was fired in 2011 so you're going back to 1991.
1991: 11-2
1992: 7-5
1993: 10-2
1994: 12-0
1995: 9-3
1996: 11-2
1997: 9-3
1998: 9-3
1999: 10-3
I don't think you'll get any argument that Joe stayed too long. 2000, 2001, 2003, & 2004 were ugly. Then he went 11-1 in 2005. IMO that's when he should have resigned even though he averaged 10 wins from 2006-2009.
Remember, Franklin lost 3 games last year.
"Just look at Joe's recruiting the last 20 years. That entire time Joe didnt have 3 years of recruiting as good as good as Franklin's first three years". tboyer
Don't mean to pick on you, you mean well, but Joe's last 20 years of coaching would include all of the '90's. I follow recruiting pretty closely, and Penn State was a recruiting machine from the late '60's all the way thru the late '90's. Phil was talking about it the other day regarding how elite Penn State recruited in the past. In fact we had a No. 1 consensus recruiting class in the late '90's, possibly '97 recruiting year, don't remember exactly what year Phil said.
Don't forget in that 20 year period you cite, we had our undefeated '94 championship team. Also, finished in the Top 10 in '96, and as late as '99 was the preseason No. 1 team in the Country, and held the spot until a late season collapse. A lot of people don't realize that Penn State in the '90's won more games than OSU.
Again, Joe was a different coach after the '99 season. He lost the "fire in the belly", don't think Joe ever got over that late season collapse, the year before. He lost both his coordinators, and pulled in the reigns with recruiting. Seemingly over night Penn State stopped recruiting down South, and even in Ohio which was a head scratcher. Its like Joe got old over night, and the demarcation line was 2000, he was never the same.
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Joe's final year, 2011, were undefeated going into the Neb game when all hell broke lose when Joe was fired. That was not long after we missed playing for the MNC due to some very questionable calls against UM in a last second loss. We went on to win the Orange Bowl. There were some other good teams in there too.
This was at a time when the SEC was cheating as was USC. O'Brien, then, had a couple of good teams with Joe's kids. We then struggled as the sanctions kicked in until last year.
So I have no idea what you are talking about. The record doesn't back your statements. You want to talk 2000~2005, OK. But after the M-Rob year, PSU was pretty darn good.
You are wrong to change your mind. You had it right the first time. I always laugh at people who think recruiting is an end not a means. People forget the end game
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