Thoughts on the Blue - White game?!

bcspsu

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Stroud was a 5* recruit, the Elite 11 winner, and the projected #1 pick in next year's NFL draft. His arm strength and accuracy far surpass Clifford at his best, so no, I don't think it's simply a matter of what teams they play for.

Compare the way Stroud fits deep balls into tiny pockets (his late go-ahead TD pass to Smith-Njigba in the Rose Bowl was NFL level) to Clifford missing open receivers deep (like in the Outback Bowl). It's not even close.
I was hoping that he would raise his game just by how experienced he is, much like Pickett did last season. However, I guess experience only matters if you actually have the talent to make it matter, and possibly even the coaching, and unfortunately Clifford just doesn't have elite talent and probably doesn't have elite coaching. It also doesn't help that PSU's scheme makes him run more than any of the running backs, and he also panics and rushes plays.
 

Plan Ahaed

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I was hoping that he would raise his game just by how experienced he is, much like Pickett did last season. However, I guess experience only matters if you actually have the talent to make it matter, and possibly even the coaching, and unfortunately Clifford just doesn't have elite talent and probably doesn't have elite coaching. It also doesn't help that PSU's scheme makes him run more than any of the running backs, and he also panics and rushes plays.
Your last sentence is the biggest issue for me with Franklin and his hands on approach to the offense since he's been here. Going back to his days at Vandy he has always been a proponent of a "mobile" qb and pretty much every season the starting QB winds up injured at some point due to the number of hits they take. This is a man who saw Hackenburg and said let's run the read option with him. Clifford doesn't do himself any favors as you mentioned as the game still doesn't seem like it has "slowed down" for him yet. The only thing I can put out in his, and the entire offense's defense, is that the revolving door at OC and changing systems hasn't made things any easier. IMO Franklin needs to stick with MY like it or lump it and either ride with him to success or out the door.
 

Gitzit

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Sutherland still looks slow and bad, but not as bad as he was at safety, just small. Lee still holding ball loose in traffic, will probably be prone to fumbles his whole career. The new running back didn't impress, but he is supposed to be the next great back, maybe just needs more time. Where is the running back with shake and bake like Even Royster who can make you miss in the hole for 4 to 8 yards?. All I see are fast running backs that can only run in a straight line, and there is never any holes.
Ginormous punter will probably totally miss the ball in the time it takes to reach his foot in a 30 mph wind

I wasn't impressed with anyone, well maybe Bo Pribula, he runs and looks like Trace.
 

knickslions

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With hundreds of athletes dropping dead and thousands of young men developing myocarditis from the so called vaccines, it's a distraction. I find it sad and and insulting.
LMAO. Another guy on test board posted this nonsense with a list of athletes names. The first one I looked up the list that they said had to stop a tennis match because of heart issues was actually that he had to stop due to blisters on his feet. GFY with this nonsense
 

Plan Ahaed

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LMAO. Another guy on test board posted this nonsense with a list of athletes names. The first one I looked up the list that they said had to stop a tennis match because of heart issues was actually that he had to stop due to blisters on his feet. GFY with this nonsense
So you're saying the jab is now causing people to break out in blisters on their skin? Damn you science!
 

Steve G

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I was hoping that he would raise his game just by how experienced he is, much like Pickett did last season. However, I guess experience only matters if you actually have the talent to make it matter, and possibly even the coaching, and unfortunately Clifford just doesn't have elite talent and probably doesn't have elite coaching. It also doesn't help that PSU's scheme makes him run more than any of the running backs, and he also panics and rushes plays.
for me one frustration with Clifford is he comes out over hyped and then proceeds to over throw a bunch of receivers and generally make bad reads.
 

bcspsu

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for me one frustration with Clifford is he comes out over hyped and then proceeds to over throw a bunch of receivers and generally make bad reads.
Too much contrived pregame emotion rather than coming out in a poised way; he's not the only one.
 

NittanyIllinois

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Too much contrived pregame emotion rather than coming out in a poised way; he's not the only one.

Some like it, some don't. But there's definitely a lot of "swagger" with this team over the past few years. Remember Clifford talking about being the most confident QB in the country last year?

I'm glad he's confident. I'm glad other guys are motivated. But at some point, your execution has to do the talking. All the yapping amounts to nothing if you don't execute. Clifford still, in his fourth year of seeing action, was far too often excitable and too anxious on many throws. Do 6th year seniors suddenly fix those issues in year 6? I guess we'll see.
 
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Texas Lion

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Stroud was a 5* recruit, the Elite 11 winner, and the projected #1 pick in next year's NFL draft. His arm strength and accuracy far surpass Clifford at his best, so no, I don't think it's simply a matter of what teams they play for.

Compare the way Stroud fits deep balls into tiny pockets (his late go-ahead TD pass to Smith-Njigba in the Rose Bowl was NFL level) to Clifford missing open receivers deep (like in the Outback Bowl). It's not even close.
I realize that and agree for the most part....but I am saying Cliff at OSU and OSU still wins the B1G most of the time. Yes Stroud had a great Rose Bowl. However, most of the time at OSU the WR are so open that any qb could make those passes.
 

PSU2UNC

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What about his two bowl appearances? His performance against Arkansas was one of the worst QB performances ever Minny, PITT, OSU, Iowa in 2019? First five games of 2020?

“Very, very good QB” ? Not even close. More like very inconsistent QB. It’s been 4 long years of Clifford, he is what he is. Inconsistent. First signs of weakness in 2022, pull the plug and let’s see what the young QBs look like. We’re not winning a championship next season, might as well start building for the future.
He was injured for the latter half of 2021. Recent article on the Athletic has some quotes from he talking about how much the injury affected his game.

If he stays healthy, he's a very good QB. Oddly, most QBs aren't a good when they are hurt.
 

PSU2UNC

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Actually, the Blue-White "event" didn't tell us anything about how Clifford will do. To wit, it was a zero pressure situation where by rule he wasn't going to be hit. He has a history of getting over amped/erratic when the lights come on, and wilting when he's pressured/knocked around. He faced none of that on Sat.
Rewatch the Auburn game.

Here is the box score if you've forgotten.

 

NittanyIllinois

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Everything post Iowa was injury affected.
Clifford wasn't particularly sharp in the Iowa game even before his injury. And in 2 of his 5 games prior to the Iowa game, he had passer ratings below 130.

2020 was a mess for him. 4 of the 9 games with ratings less than 130, and was dreadful in most of them.

Even going back to 2019 which was a good year for him on the whole -- with the exception of the Michigan game, he disappeared against good teams. Atrocious @ Minnesota, poor @ Ohio State, a non-factor against Memphis. Hell, even Pitt controlled him. He had really good stats against bad teams, and didn't show up against the good ones.

And you're going to have a hard time demonstrating that his performance in the Outback Bowl had anything to do with his injuries against Iowa. Clearly the coaches thought he was plenty healthy to play. Clifford himself said he felt great.

He is what he is.
 
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PSU Soupy

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I think if you switch Clifford to OSU and Stroud to Penn State Clifford would be the super star and Stroud would be the guy people are complaining about.

Every OSU WR, except for Fleming (hahahaha), runs free all game long. I think Hackenberg would have won the Heisman in that system and with those athletes.
And if Fleming played for PSU we would be bitching about his lack of receiver skills and that our coaches do not know what they are doing coaching WR play in the Big 10.......tOSU has been stacked at WR the last 5 years........
 

Texas Lion

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And if Fleming played for PSU we would be bitching about his lack of receiver skills and that our coaches do not know what they are doing coaching WR play in the Big 10.......tOSU has been stacked at WR the last 5 years........
I thought the hahahahahahaha was an apparent attempt at sarcasm because the abuse the kid takes. Sorry Mr. Fleming if it touched a nerve.
 

Delcolion915

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Clifford wasn't particularly sharp in the Iowa game even before his injury. And in 2 of his 5 games prior to the Iowa game, he had passer ratings below 130.

2020 was a mess for him. 4 of the 9 games with ratings less than 130, and was dreadful in most of them.

Even going back to 2019 which was a good year for him on the whole -- with the exception of the Michigan game, he disappeared against good teams. Atrocious @ Minnesota, poor @ Ohio State, a non-factor against Memphis. Hell, even Pitt controlled him. He had really good stats against bad teams, and didn't show up against the good ones.

And you're going to have a hard time demonstrating that his performance in the Outback Bowl had anything to do with his injuries against Iowa. Clearly the coaches thought he was plenty healthy to play. Clifford himself said he felt great.

He is what he is.
Easy on those "facts", they interfere with a perfectly laid out map of excuses this dude is putting down hehehe
 
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MacNit07

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Sutherland still looks slow and bad, but not as bad as he was at safety, just small. Lee still holding ball loose in traffic, will probably be prone to fumbles his whole career. The new running back didn't impress, but he is supposed to be the next great back, maybe just needs more time. Where is the running back with shake and bake like Even Royster who can make you miss in the hole for 4 to 8 yards?. All I see are fast running backs that can only run in a straight line, and there is never any holes.
Ginormous punter will probably totally miss the ball in the time it takes to reach his foot in a 30 mph wind

I wasn't impressed with anyone, well maybe Bo Pribula, he runs and looks like Trace.
The overall product was concerning - small and marginally skilled football.

Time for a change.
 

AWS1022

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The overall product was concerning - small and marginally skilled football.

Time for a change.
Fire the coach because we weren’t impressed with the Blue White game….can we sink any lower as a fan base?
 

Plan Ahaed

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Fire the coach because we weren’t impressed with the Blue White game….can we sink any lower as a fan base?
Oh easily - how about the death threats some of our kickers have received over the years. Or how about the fan who sent the racist letter to Sutherland in 2019. When it comes to our "fans" we can play with the worst of'em.
 

BUFFALO LION

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I'm guessing the 62000 people who were there had a pretty good time. And I'm sure players enjoyed being in the Beav in front of fans.

Team got their work in.
Fans enjoyed it.

So I guess it doesn't really matter if you thought they should cancel it.

Then you would be “guessing” wrong. Number one, there’s no way there were 62,000 people there. And number two, most people that WERE there that I talked to thought the “game” sucked.

Since most of the game was nothing but thud drills, it pretty much told you nothing about how we’ll do when the real bullets fly. Except maybe that we won’t be able to tackle air once we hit the likes of Purdue and Auburn.
 
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MacNit07

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Fire the coach because we weren’t impressed with the Blue White game….can we sink any lower as a fan base?
Easy skippy…the comment was for the dramatically sinking value of production field over past few years. The B-W game simply revealed the like continuation of mediocrity and decline.
 

bourbon n blues

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Oh easily - how about the death threats some of our kickers have received over the years. Or how about the fan who sent the racist letter to Sutherland in 2019. When it comes to our "fans" we can play with the worst of'em.
The fan didn't send any letter to Sunderland, I believe it was a letter to the editor.
 
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JayWye

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Clifford wasn't particularly sharp in the Iowa game even before his injury. And in 2 of his 5 games prior to the Iowa game, he had passer ratings below 130.

2020 was a mess for him. 4 of the 9 games with ratings less than 130, and was dreadful in most of them.

Even going back to 2019 which was a good year for him on the whole -- with the exception of the Michigan game, he disappeared against good teams. Atrocious @ Minnesota, poor @ Ohio State, a non-factor against Memphis. Hell, even Pitt controlled him. He had really good stats against bad teams, and didn't show up against the good ones.

And you're going to have a hard time demonstrating that his performance in the Outback Bowl had anything to do with his injuries against Iowa. Clearly the coaches thought he was plenty healthy to play. Clifford himself said he felt great.

He is what he is.
All true...and as for the "you're not at practice so what do you know" mantra, Clifford must practice far better than he plays or he wouldn't see the field. How obvious does it have to get, i.e. his problem is not practice, it's that more often than not he can't handle game pressure.
 
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Gitzit

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All true...and as for the "you're not at practice so what do you know" mantra, Clifford must practice far better than he plays or he wouldn't see the field. How obvious does it have to get, i.e. his problem is not practice, it's that more often than not he can't handle game pressure.
I was listening to Steve Jones a while back and he stated something to the effect that, Clifford was the much better passer than Will Levis. He said he and Jack watched all of the practices and it was obvious. I think it is foolish for any fan to think they know more than the staff when it comes to who should be starting on the field.
I agree he loses his poise under pressure, most QB's do, But I think (hope) he does a much better job of that this year.
Not many Quarterbacks excel without a good running game. I have always believed a great OL is the secret to success with Wisconsin. They are known for great offensive lineman so they continue to get them, and running backs, not many highly rated players at other positions though. With a great running game you don't need a great QB or receivers if the QB has time to throw the ball ,plus a threat to run witch PSU never seems to have. A running game keeps the defense from getting worn down also. Clifford needs a running game !!! He can't do it all like Trace could.
 

Obliviax

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The B/W game was a complete waste of time for both players and spectators. It was a huge miss by CJF, IMHO. We are getting very little play on B1G and he must always consider whatever it takes to elevate the brand. For recruiting, this is especially true because most of these kids are attracted to a program between their Soph and Jr years. No exposure on B1G means very little for a kid from Ohio or Michigan to fall in love with at PSU.

As a spectator, I got zero from the game. Well, I got two things:

  • Allar's got a hell of an arm but a LONG way to go
  • We've got the largest punter I've ever seen!
Having said all of that, I don't care. We've had two really bad years in a row now. CJF won't survive a third. With the recruiting he's done, I have no idea why our teams have played so poorly. Then we get 8 kids drafted. It boggles the mind, really.
 

Obliviax

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I was listening to Steve Jones a while back and he stated something to the effect that, Clifford was the much better passer than Will Levis. He said he and Jack watched all of the practices and it was obvious. I think it is foolish for any fan to think they know more than the staff when it comes to who should be starting on the field.
I agree he loses his poise under pressure, most QB's do, But I think (hope) he does a much better job of that this year.
Not many Quarterbacks excel without a good running game. I have always believed a great OL is the secret to success with Wisconsin. They are known for great offensive lineman so they continue to get them, and running backs, not many highly rated players at other positions though. With a great running game you don't need a great QB or receivers if the QB has time to throw the ball ,plus a threat to run witch PSU never seems to have. A running game keeps the defense from getting worn down also. Clifford needs a running game !!! He can't do it all like Trace could.
That may be true for SC is a very weak running QB IMHO. While SC was probably more accurate, the defenses new that they only had to stop the pass because we'd stop the run ourselves. Again, IMHO, if you can't run you aren't going to be able to pass. I think our staff is way too hung up on "chunk plays" and has fallen into the WR-first offensive mindset. Football is still about will, first, Second, football is about being able to exert your physicality. Very few games are won because you can put up 60 points. PSU had a very good defense last year and a decent ground game, with little passing, would have won a lot more games than our schizophrenic offense from 2021. The biggest problem I have with our staff is that we take our skill set and make it into what the coaches want as opposed to crafting a game around the player's skill sets.
 
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AWS1022

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Easy skippy…the comment was for the dramatically sinking value of production field over past few years. The B-W game simply revealed the like continuation of mediocrity and decline.
Right (eye roll).
 

MacNit07

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Right (eye roll).
Well, what is your Cracker Jack analysis? Read Obli’s (just above) as it is spot on.

Penn State has severely underachieved, they are bullied by many teams - even ones that are far less talented. And the problem is getting worse. The players that too the field a few Saturdays ago looked smallish and relatively soft and likely to continue the downward spiral.
 
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AWS1022

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Well, what is your Cracker Jack analysis? Read Obli’s (just above) as it is spot on.

Penn State has severely underachieved, they are bullied by many teams - even ones that are far less talented. And the problem is getting worse. The players that too the field a few Saturdays ago looked smallish and relatively soft and likely to continue the downward spiral.
My Cracker Jack analysis is that no matter what they did in the BW game, guys like you would find fault with it. If they played an all out game and the defense was awesome, you’d say the offense looked like shit. If the offense lit it up, you’d say the defense was soft. The naysayers say out of one side of their mouth that the game was garbage and nothing could be taken from it then out of the other they say they looked smallish and relatively soft. You saw what you wanted to see and you would have no matter what. If you’re finding fault with an inner squad scrimmage, you had your mind made up before it even started. And they went from a losing record to a winning record….that’s not “getting worse” no matter how you try to slice it. Worst. Fanbase. Ever.
 

PSU_Nut

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If a real game would have risked the health of the O-line then they should have cancelled the damn game rather than present a useless farce.
If they canceled the game you would be the first one on this board complaining they took away a free event for the fans. Penn State was not alone in having numbers issue for the spring game. With the portal and increase of transfer many schools had to go with modified games.
 

Plan Ahaed

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The fan didn't send any letter to Sunderland, I believe it was a letter to the editor.

Read any article from back then - the letter was sent directly to Sutherland.
EGTwN-FXoAAssGS
 

NittanyIllinois

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And they went from a losing record to a winning record….that’s not “getting worse” no matter how you try to slice it. Worst. Fanbase. Ever.

We went from 4-5 to 7-6. But keep in mind.......the 2020 COVID year was conference play only. We went 4-5 in the Big Ten in 2021, so whether we "got worse" or improved or stayed the same is fairly subjective considering we had essentially the same record. (we probably would have gone at least 2-1 against OOC teams in 2020).

You're not going to find many people who would argue that our big picture trajectory is pointing upward as a program.