Jeez, West Virginia is as unbelievable as Indiana. Where is that money coming from and what big name players are they buying?
The Ohio State All Star team
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I absolutely would hate it. It just means they would be taking be taking ad advantage of a corrupt system. I hate that Penn State is paying these coaches the amounts they are.
I started following the Yankees in 1970 because of their history. Then Steinbrenner bought the team and the rest is history. I hate that they have helped baseball now pay pitchers 40 million a year to win 15 games and throw 170 innings a year. But I digress.
Have you watched the Penn State vs. Ohio State football games in recent years under Franklin?
Penn State had multiple 4th quarter leads in many of those games which they should have won. The reason why Franklin has lost 90% of the games against Ohio State has mostly to do with some very bad game day coaching decisions, not player personnel.
In the 10 games against Ohio State, a grand total of 1 game was a blow out loss. All the other games were reasonably close contests and several were one point losses and one overtime loss. So, it’s pretty much a myth that Penn State has not had enough talent to defeat Ohio State. The delta factor has been the game day coaching. Both Ohio State and Michigan have been better coached teams.
Let’s see how things play out on the field. You are making assumptions about how OSU will perform in 2024. They look good on paper only. The have not played a game yet.
Some fans had similar unfounded fears about Texas A&M when they were consistently getting mega recruits with their massive NIL funding. On paper they looked like a future NFL team. Guess what, they imploded and have never approached the lofty levels some panicky fans thought they would achieve. Another example, Georgia with all their NFL level talent didn’t even make the CFP in 2023.
Bottom line, fans should calm down and not jump to conclusions. Consecutive CFP appearances by 2 schools (tiny TCU and Washington) not known to have large NIL funds or mega recruiting classes are good examples that NIL fears are way overblown.
Clear upgrade at QB? That's tough to say IMO. If anything, a wash. Howard is more of a runner vs. passer in regard to McCord. But he was an above average QB in the BIG12. Throw in a bad OL and a coach who's team typically gets out-physicalled vs. the other elite program, I don't just don't think they're all that different from last season.
When are we going to start talking about Ryan Day's inability to beat the elite? We rag on CJF annually, and he doesn't have near the talent level at his disposal that Day does.
It's not just the performance from these teams that make nil such a crock. It's the way it is playing out so far. Kids demanding money just to visit, kids getting money without even being on the field, boosters throwing money at 18 year olds, team chemistry and lack thereof, coaching staffs having to pander to kids and just hope someone doesn't outbid them. There is far better use for the money being thrown around, and that includes coaching salaries. Pro sports is one thing, this is not supposed to be pro sports.
1-6 vs. teams in the CFP top-5.
1-3 in the CFP.
1-3 vs. Michigan.
Reference
I'm not a Franklin apologist nor would I argue he's a good game day coach. But Franklin is at a talent deficit and typically an underdog in games vs top-10/5 teams. Franklin recruits at a 10-15 level, which is typically where we end up in the CFP final rankings. Day/OSU recruit at a 1-3 level, yet you all haven't been getting it done at that level.
Ryan Day is at equal or greater footing from a talent perspective year in and year out - and those above numbers are his records vs. the elite. It's now or never for Day IMO, because those numbers show he isn't getting it done when it matters. Which is why OSU is going nuts in the portal + retention of draft eligible prospects - he knows this could be it.
How much of that is because the PSU athletic department over the years didn’t consider it a priority? I have no idea. I agree it makes no sense that you have to struggle to get radio coverage of PSU events in Pittsburgh. Is the true same for Philly?
Even in the Harrisburg area I’m surprised at how little PR push there is for Penn State at times. I thought after the hockey team was formed there’d be much more push by PSU to try and promote and attract people up for the hockey and basketball games but it’s nonexistent.
I think it’s just not a priority at PSU in the athletic department to really try to promote their brand outside of Centre county. I think it’s a missed opportunity.
Funny that a Yankees fan is upset by this. I'm a Pirates fan.
We're at kind of an interesting time for football. I think there will have to be some limits placed on recruiting, NIL and the transfer portal, and in some ways this Ohio State team could be the poster child for reform if it goes on to win a title using Alabama's players. And if they don't win, Ryan Day will likely be looking for a job elsewhere.
James Franklin has never built a complete team, strong at all positions with depth. He has fielded some top heavy teams with great high end talent but has yet to provide the team that is broad and stable across all areas.
I'm not saying this is easy to do, I'm just saying that he hasn't done it. Not many can. It's typically reserved for 3-5 teams annually. I feel like Penn State has the support to build one of those teams now and again. Not every year like Bama but every 5-6 years. They really haven't. Even the 2016 team lost 3 games. One to a very average team and one in a blowout. Not good enough. You have to find a way to win that Pitt game and find a way to finish that Rose Bowl. They didn't.
When I think of unbalanced teams I think of Pitt. So many great stars and NFL hall of famers in the program but very little overall win success to show for it because even when you have Larry Fitzgerald or Curtis Martin it will never atone for the fact your secondary and linebacking corps is below average or whatever position group. Good teams will decimate you in those areas.
Building a strong balanced roster is a huge key to stemming a long physical football season. The good coaches will find your weaknesses and attack them.
To touch on the Ryan Day part of this thread, Day is a good coach, not great, specifically passing game wise he is great. The difference between him and Meyer is that Meyer would just run downhill on you once he got a 2 score lead and let his defense do the rest. Meyer was a great roster builder too, maybe the best.
I'm not saying this is easy to do, I'm just saying that he hasn't done it. Not many can. It's typically reserved for 3-5 teams annually. I feel like Penn State has the support to build one of those teams now and again. Not every year like Bama but every 5-6 years. They really haven't. Even the 2016 team lost 3 games. One to a very average team and one in a blowout. Not good enough. You have to find a way to win that Pitt game and find a way to finish that Rose Bowl. They didn't.
When I think of unbalanced teams I think of Pitt. So many great stars and NFL hall of famers in the program but very little overall win success to show for it because even when you have Larry Fitzgerald or Curtis Martin it will never atone for the fact your secondary and linebacking corps is below average or whatever position group. Good teams will decimate you in those areas.
Building a strong balanced roster is a huge key to stemming a long physical football season. The good coaches will find your weaknesses and attack them.
To touch on the Ryan Day part of this thread, Day is a good coach, not great, specifically passing game wise he is great. The difference between him and Meyer is that Meyer would just run downhill on you once he got a 2 score lead and let his defense do the rest. Meyer was a great roster builder too, maybe the best.
Why would that ever happen? Thats 100% on us if it does. Most FBS teams are irrelevant anyway. Why care now if it impacts us.
I would bet Marvin Harrison Jr on Ohio State last year was the most popular athlete in the state of Ohio BY FAR. More than any Bengal, Brown, Red, "Guardian", or Cav. That entire state is all in on Ohio State.
More so than Burrow or Chase? More so than LeBron even though he's gone. Maybe but that's a tough sell.
Was Saquon the most popular athlete in PA during his peak? Fan base in both Pittsburgh and Philly so it wouldn't be a Steeler/Eagle/Penguin/Flyer/Phillie/Sixer/Bucco
That's just crazy talk by anyone. Talk to any OSU fan and they'll tell you that the PSU-OSU games under Franklin have been tense and close and I don't see anything changing
How can you have an NIL cap? You would be going back to mandating that what individuals can earn outside of the football field. Haven’t the courts already said that is illegal?
Take the NFL for instance. There is a cap on what the teams can spend but there is no cap on what Mahomes can earn from sponsors.
I assume no one on this thread follows Wrestling all that closely. PSU has literally been doing the same thing for years now in wrestling and their level of All-American talent and World-Wide domination is way more impressive than what Ohio State Football is amassing.
I mean Ohio State isn't even the favorite for the CFP title in 2025. Georgia is and some still have Alabama Higher. PSU Wrestling has about 99.9% chance of winning it all in 2024 though and its been like that for 8 or 9 of the last 10 years really.
After PSU Wrestling easily won it all last year everyone decided to come back making them the easy favorites in 2024. Then on top of that they went out and got the top 3 Portal transfers in Messenbrink, Nagao and Truax. Everyone else is fighting for 2nd place and has been for a while now.
I mean Ohio State isn't even the favorite for the CFP title in 2025. Georgia is and some still have Alabama Higher. PSU Wrestling has about 99.9% chance of winning it all in 2024 though and its been like that for 8 or 9 of the last 10 years really.
After PSU Wrestling easily won it all last year everyone decided to come back making them the easy favorites in 2024. Then on top of that they went out and got the top 3 Portal transfers in Messenbrink, Nagao and Truax. Everyone else is fighting for 2nd place and has been for a while now.
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I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, and I REALLY hope you're right. But I think you're coping, brother. I've watched a ton of KSU football over the years, and Howard is a winner......but he had virtually no WRs and that offense was oriented around the ground game. Reminds me of a bigger Trace. Good enough as a passer (not elite), but really smart and makes tough plays. Give him a bunch of NFL receivers and pass-first schemes? He'll be fine.
And if you think Day's big game problems are on par with Franklin's........oof. We used to bash "Kirby Dumb" around here -- #1 recruiting classes but could never win the big games (Bama, LSU, Texas, etc.). Until he did. Turns out, coaches get better. Ironically, Kirby won his first title in year 6.......Day is going into year 6. Franklin is going into year 15 as a HC, and the excuse is what? Not enough NIL? Cheating on the recruiting trail? Bad luck?
Michigan just won a title with similar recruiting talent as we had. Washington played for a title with less talent than we had. What's our excuse? I don't think Ryan Day is the best coach in the country or even top 3 or 4, but he absolutely owns us and has his team in the conversation every year. As Kirby showed......stay in the conversation every year, and it'll happen eventually. Day is relevant, and Franklin is not.
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I said not now but in the future. And it could be in the near future as within 5 years. Read my post more carefully. Yes, Franklin has blown games against OSU. I am painfully aware of that.
This is my point. This super team that OSU is assembling could simply be the tip of the iceberg. Envision a world where every 5 star recruit or portal guy gets paid $5 million or more, high 4 stars get $4 million, whatever and it is just an insane bidding war. They just go to the highest bidder. Proven guys that are NFL ready need to get money worth what their first rookie contract will be or maybe more than that to stay another year. And PSU chooses to not engage in that high stakes money game or can't or whatever it is but OSU can then the talent gap will become very real. We have all 3 stars or less and they have all 5 stars and high 4 stars. I know it is not that black and white and upsets happen, yada, yada but you get the picture.
I dunno.....
This is a bit of a unique situation that I don't see repeating every year. We have a close knit group of guys from the 2021 class (arguably our most talented ever) who are 0-3 against Michigan with absolutely no trophies. NIL money was obviously huge in keeping them around, but there's an unfinished business component to it. No way JTT or Denzel Burke or Egbuka return if we had beaten Michigan this past year.
We'll continue to hit the portal hard and get key additions, but you're not going to see us bring back the entire team the way we did this offseason. That's just not sustainable. And we can't afford that every year.
The hope is that this team gets the Michigan monkey off Day's back and drives a title run. That, in turn, will allow Day to really crank up our recruiting even more. But there's no real expectation that this is the new normal. 2025 will be a bit of a rebuilding year for us.
The problem isn't the lack of a cap for NIL. The problem is that CFB players are getting paid for recruitment, committing, and playing but everyone is calling it NIL, and nobody is doing a damn thing about it because it's virtually impossible to prove it or catch it, which the players, NIL collectives, coaches, boosters, and schools are all well aware of so they are all taking full advantage while they can.
Respectfully, commercial and business opportunities are like 5% of NIL. Most of the payments are given by NIL collectives without any actual benefit to any commercial entity.
I completely get and mostly agree with your doomsday scenario, but I think these big NIL checks will start to fizzle. The money is coming from boosters and NIL collectives, with a little from commercial endorsements. Even the richest and craziest boosters can’t or won’t keep pouring millions into collectives year after year to pay a bunch of entitled 18 year old that routinely suck or want to transfer after 2 years. It’s a horrible investment. For every Michael Penix or Jayden Daniels, there are probably 25 transfers getting NIL money who did squat. You will probably still see big bucks for a few highly accomplished and special players, but I think the donors are going to get fatigued quickly when one paid transfer after another disappoints.
We really need Day to fall on his face with this super team. That will dry up the money pipeline from the boosters for a while until the next coach can convince them to invest again. In the meantime hopefully we have caught up.
The main reason we aren't at a championship level right now in my view is that we don't have the horses up front on defense. We've got great defensive ends and linebackers and a good secondary, but we don't have the dominant or at least very good run-stuffing defensive tackles that most championship teams today are built around. We're good enough elsewhere to beat most teams, but we will have trouble handling the more physical teams until we do better there. We'll inevitably wear down eventually as a game goes on. I don't know why we've had a problem with that. Without that core piece then you need to be able to outscore people, which makes having difference makers at QB and receiver important. We've had a weakness in both areas relative to the teams that have beaten us.
Doubtful. There will always be boosters willing to spend stupid amounts of money.
It's almost impossible to "cheat" with today's CF rules and allowances.
What? You looked at last year’s results and thought the problem was on the defensive side of the ball?
We had the number one rush defense in the entire NCAA!
That's true for this season. However, there were several games against OSU since 2017 in which PSU was poised to win, but the defense capitulated late in the game.
It doesn't matter. We weren't playing anyone with comparable talent most of the time. How many rushing yards did Michigan have against us? How many rushing TDs?
Our Defense was very, very good last year but some of that is inflated based on the offenses we played
Then you also can say that about Michigan's and OSU's defenses. Likewise, you probably can say that the offensive numbers of Oregon and Washington were inflated because of how bad the defenses were in the Pac 12, and I believe that that was demonstrated in the Championship game.
For sure, notice Bama had some success moving the ball against Michigan.
Oregon and Washington were definitely overrated in general. So was Texas.
Exact reason why FSU shouldn't have been in the playoff--and debatable if Texas and Washington should have been.
Wrong. The delta factor has been superior talent at OSU, especially at QB. The difference between Penn State and OSU this year was Marvin Harrison played for OSU.
Michigan says hold my beer
Doesn't exist and never did. Just a way to make fans accept mediocrity.
Seriously? Good God, this sounds like something out of the 60s and 70s. You're just fooling yourself if you think that the kids that PSU and OSU - or any other major CF power - are different. Take a look at the kids at PSU, Michigan, ND and OSU and many of the top tier kids all had offers from all of these schools. CF is all about money and winning - big business - and that includes both PSU and OSU.
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