The 3rd A-Bomb: A history lesson for you who some how missed this!
- Thread starter TheGLOV
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Good stuff, Glov. The parallels with today are there (read: China). But I challenge some of the precepts. Not to mention it sounds like the English version of what transpired, so naturally I'm skeptical. Those Brits will claim they won the war alone if you let them. It's the Montgomery effect. 
First, leading up to the war we used diplomatic channels to appeal directly to Emperor Hirohito's better nature. Our intel told us his cabinet wanted war. That being the case, why would we advocate trying him for war crimes at Potsdam? Sorry but something doesn't jibe. Sounds like British propaganda.
Second, I always thought the threat of Soviet invasion made Japan capitulate. When it came right down to it they had a choice: surrender to us or the Soviets. Even back then they recognized the dangers of socialism, unlike many Americans do today.
The historical parallels are striking. We, too, had a coup attempt. We, too, had a military occupation of our 'Imperial Palace' all done in the name of 'protecting the emperor' (democracy). Our emperor, too, was forced into an underground bunker below the palace.
To answer the question "if you were President Truman what would you do" I would drop leaflets on select US cities in order to get around a news blackout imposed on the truth. That would be a start. Just sayin'.
I find it ironic how we spent billions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of lives fighting two foreign wars and a cold war only to submit to communism from within. Don't agree? History will one day record it that way. And when your grandkids ask why "you" weren't on the right side of the ledger you'll have to answer.
I thank you.
First, leading up to the war we used diplomatic channels to appeal directly to Emperor Hirohito's better nature. Our intel told us his cabinet wanted war. That being the case, why would we advocate trying him for war crimes at Potsdam? Sorry but something doesn't jibe. Sounds like British propaganda.
Second, I always thought the threat of Soviet invasion made Japan capitulate. When it came right down to it they had a choice: surrender to us or the Soviets. Even back then they recognized the dangers of socialism, unlike many Americans do today.
The historical parallels are striking. We, too, had a coup attempt. We, too, had a military occupation of our 'Imperial Palace' all done in the name of 'protecting the emperor' (democracy). Our emperor, too, was forced into an underground bunker below the palace.
To answer the question "if you were President Truman what would you do" I would drop leaflets on select US cities in order to get around a news blackout imposed on the truth. That would be a start. Just sayin'.
I find it ironic how we spent billions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of lives fighting two foreign wars and a cold war only to submit to communism from within. Don't agree? History will one day record it that way. And when your grandkids ask why "you" weren't on the right side of the ledger you'll have to answer.
I thank you.
Good stuff, Glov. The parallels with today are there (read: China). But I challenge some of the precepts. Not to mention it sounds like the English version of what transpired, so naturally I'm skeptical. Those Brits will claim they won the war alone if you let them. It's the Montgomery effect.
First, leading up to the war we used diplomatic channels to appeal directly to Emperor Hirohito's better nature. Our intel told us his cabinet wanted war. That being the case, why would we advocate trying him for war crimes at Potsdam? Sorry but something doesn't jibe. Sounds like British propaganda.
Second, I always thought the threat of Soviet invasion made Japan capitulate. When it came right down to it they had a choice: surrender to us or the Soviets. Even back then they recognized the dangers of socialism, unlike many Americans do today.
The historical parallels are striking. We, too, had a coup attempt. We, too, had a military occupation of our 'Imperial Palace' all done in the name of 'protecting the emperor' (democracy). Our emperor, too, was forced into an underground bunker below the palace.
To answer the question "if you were President Truman what would you do" I would drop leaflets on select US cities in order to get around a news blackout imposed on the truth. That would be a start. Just sayin'.
I find it ironic how we spent billions of dollars and lost tens of thousands of lives fighting two foreign wars and a cold war only to submit to communism from within. Don't agree? History will one day record it that way. And when your grandkids ask why "you" weren't on the right side of the ledger you'll have to answer.
I thank you.
WTH?
You should have seen what did to the bathroom this morning after a burrito last night.
Thanks for posting. Always wondered what was going on in Japan after they dropped the first bomb. Good find.
I consider myself to be quite learned about WW2 but there were a lot of nuggets in there that I didn't know. I can understand the attempt to overthrow and many in the military had to believe that they were going to be tried as war criminals so what did they have to lose? Also, the emperor's selling of democracy is quite a tribute to him being able to pivot for the good of his people.
I would love to read about post WW2 in Eastern Europe. There were a lot of atrocities committed against Germans, deserved or not. In the book "A Higher Call" (that walks through the war from a German Fighter pilot's standpoint, as well as a B-17 pilots) the German pilot is beaten up in an ally by German citizens who notice his flier's boots as he applies for a job repurposing bricks. He changed clothes but had nothing to wear on his feet but his pilot's boots. They are angry because he didn't give it his full measure to protect the German people from constant allied bombardment. He only lives because a police officer breaks it up before they can kill him. So he went from having the highest esteem to almost being murdered by his own people in a year's time.
Well, you should post like you can instead of simply asking stupid questions that are complete non-sequitors. I never made the claim anyone was tried for war crimes from Japan. But there were clearly war crimes committed by various Japanese commanders and soldiers. So, without a plan, there had to be people who thought war crimes might be brought.
Yalta Conference Feb 1944 "At the Yalta Conference, Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin declare, "It is our inflexible purpose to destroy German militarism and Nazism and ... to bring all war criminals to just and swift punishment."
Japanese nuked on August 6th and 9th, 1945.
Shithead.
So you never made the claim that anyone was tried for war crimes in Japan. You should have because there were lots of them.
It's impossible to say whether senior Japanese military and political officials thought they would be tried for war crimes. Was it a major factor in their desire to continue the war? Probably not. Evidence? Were there the equivalent of the Nazi rat lines in Japan? Did anyone try to evade capture? The answer to both is no. Their sense of duty and honor required them to stay at their posts and, ultimately, be held accountable for their actions.
You may return to skull-fvcking yourself.
Read brother Read. Here was my sentence that you didn't read: I can understand the attempt to overthrow and many in the military had to believe that they were going to be tried as war criminals so what did they have to lose?
I can't help that you can't comprehend when reading (at least). But you should refrain from making an ass of yourself by just keeping your mouth shut.
Read brother Read. Here was my sentence that you didn't read: I can understand the attempt to overthrow and many in the military had to believe that they were going to be tried as war criminals so what did they have to lose?
I can't help that you can't comprehend when reading (at least). But you should refrain from making an ass of yourself by just keeping your mouth shut.
It's clear that you understand very little, though it's not surprising that you don't have anything better to do with your hands than type.
maybe...but in this case, you didn't read my post and shot your mouth off. Then, demonstrated that you are too small of a person to admit it. Do me a favor, just quit reading and responding to my posts.
I wonder if the board can block people from reading my posts. That would be awesome.
maybe...but in this case, you didn't read my post and shot your mouth off. Then, demonstrated that you are too small of a person to admit it. Do me a favor, just quit reading and responding to my posts.
I wonder if the board can block people from reading my posts. That would be awesome.
So I "shot my mouth off" and you can hear me? That's pretty damned good.
How about you block yourself or put me on ignore? But if you need a safe space, this ain't it.
I don't need to be protected from your stupidity. I am only hoping to help you. Your stupidity and assholelishness is here for all to see.
It's working.
Now Artie!
If you don't have something nice to say; don't say anything at all.
Yes, I know you'll post the hand giving me the finger!
Sorry, but this motherfvcker crossed a line that don't never get uncrossed.
On this same topic, Dr. Ted Fujita ("Mr. Tornado") was nearly a casualty to one of those bombs. One of the great minds in Meteorology. Great article.....https://today.ttu.edu/posts/2020/08/Stories/world-famous-tornado-researcher-launched-career-hiroshima-nagasaki
Saw a story not long ago about a man that lived in Nagasaki but was in Hiroshima. He returned to Nagasaki the next day and survived both attacks. Lived to the age of 93! Here’s the story:
Tsutomu Yamaguchi - Wikipedia
Who the hell mentioned the Holocaust? Obli quoted the Yalta Conference and intimated their statement about punishing “all war criminals “ may have influenced the behavior of Japanese officers. An, you have some serious issues.
We're going back aways, to a thread in May of last year. That's what he's called me and he's been wearing a bullseye ever since. You wanna join him? Be my guest.
A lot of talk by many who never donned the uniform. Military life was never fun, excluding catching the std's.
I don't know- I remember some beautiful sunrises and sunsets in parts of the world I would otherwise never have seen. As the years pass, I seem to more and more remember the fun stuff.
May? L
hey Art. If I offended you I apologize. But I will fight back if someone is obtuse. So I did my thing, just to be clear. I have no recollection of any Holocaust conversation.
Interesting account of events that truly shaped world history.
Over the years there's been a debate about whether dropping those two bombs was morally and militarily justified. I've always believed the answer to that question is yes, and your posted documentary strongly supports that view.
The bloodbaths on Iwo Jima and Okinawa were a taste of what would have been in store if we had landed an invasion force on the main islands of Japan. Our own planners estimated possibly one million (or more) U.S. casualties to take the country, to include the massacre of around 100,000 POW's held by the Japanese.
Therefore, I think Truman's decision to use those terrible weapons was the right one -- in fact, not even a close call. And there seems little doubt that it produced the desired effect, which was a Japanese surrender.
My dad agreed with that, I know. He and the two uncles who were still alive in Europe were all likely to be heading to Japan had Truman not made the decision he did. It's entirety possible that none of them or the Marine uncle who was already in the Pacific would have ever come home.
Truman, unlike too many of our leaders, actually knew firsthand what war looked like.
The Greatest Generation indeed. Times have changed.
Back to the casualty estimates, it seems like military planners come up with algorithms for everything. I remember once seeing a computation that based on average number of casualties per day per 1,000 men engaged, the ferocity and deadliness of Japanese resistance was on the order of four times greater than that of the Germans. And the Germans, as you know, were no slouches in the art of combat. To attempt to take the main Japanese islands would have been unimaginably horrific for both sides, and thank God your father and uncles were spared that.
You know I always look at things from a positive perspective. That said, now you and Art don’t have to spend any time or money exchanging Christmas cards.
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